Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue question period.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to return to question period.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over the next month we will be focusing our attention in this House on the government budget for the coming year. I would like to talk about the budget from two perspectives. First, from the broad territorial perspective and second, from the point of view of the people of Thebacha.

Mr. Speaker, we are in the second year of making more cuts and reductions. It is tempting to do what previous Assemblies did. They may have tried to keep expenditures in check, but in the end they did not make the hard decisions. Instead, the residents of the territories were left with a huge debt, not all of which we can blame on the federal government. Mr. Speaker, the people of Fort Smith supported me as they thought I could make a positive difference in the way government operated. It was tempting to ignore the deficit and spend, spend, and spend some more. It is always easier to reform programs when there is a lot of money. However, in the end, Mr. Speaker, I thought of my granddaughter, my daughter, and all the other young adults and children in Thebacha and the rest of the Northwest Territories. Left unchecked, Mr. Speaker, we could have racked up a huge deficit of over $400,000,000 in the life of this Assembly. Mr. Speaker, I could not be part of leaving that kind of financial burden on the future on the future generations.

-- Applause

Mr. Speaker, I agree that we need to balance the budget and having made that agreement, I have worked with other Members to find ways of getting a balanced budget in the least harmful way. And I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, this has been one of the most difficult tasks I have ever had to do in my working life, and not something I would wish on anybody. Mr. Speaker, some days, when I am trying to help yet another constituent who has lost his job or is facing reduced government benefits, I resent the position this Assembly has been placed in. There is enough work to do to get ready for division, without having to deal with making really tough decisions that people did not want to make in the past.

I know that the Ordinary Members made a real effort to ensure that reductions were fair and equitable for all residents. Many of the Ministers also tried to take this approach. However, I am not convinced that this emphasis on fairness and equity is reflected throughout this budget. I point to the level of positions lost in different communities. Mr. Speaker, it makes sense to me that regional centres and headquarters should take a harder hit than the small communities. Most of the staff in small communities are front line workers and they are very few in each and every community. I am not sure that the government gave enough consideration to the different circumstances of the various large centres. When it was time for reductions, the issue of basic fairness and equity, I think, was not adequately addressed.

Mr. Speaker, not all large centres are the same. Iqaluit, in my opinion, Mr. Speaker, will be the only community in the entire Northwest Territories, up to and after division, that will in fact show a net growth and, in spite of the reductions, Yellowknife, our capital, which since 1967 has almost quintupled in size, and has been the home of the largest part of the government budget since that time. While it has taken its share of cuts, it also has the most to be cut. And as one of my colleagues said, they will be filling their boots on the benefits from the resource development that is going to be taking place around them.

Mr. Speaker, as well, I would like to point out for the benefit of people that things like transfer north of recent military air squadron which brought a huge pile of jobs to the community of Yellowknife, is there, while other communities have experienced a steady erosion as well of federal positions. Mr. Speaker, Rankin and Cambridge have done their share and led by example in the cuts.

If the devolved central government takes place in Nunavut, they may in fact break even. If that does not take place, they could in fact end up losers as well because of the reductions. Hay River, by circumstance, and by I suppose good timing and being in the right place, has got off quite lightly in both rounds of the cuts. Not seen as a regional centre and because of the shelter of amalgamation, they will get by quite lightly. Inuvik and Fort Smith, communities in the west, will at the end of the day suffer a net loss, Mr. Speaker, in positions.

We, I could tell you, in Fort Smith have experienced a clear erosion of federal government positions in all departments, probably equal to or greater than what the government of the Northwest Territories over time has done. So, Mr. Speaker, for me fairness should look at the potential opportunities of the regional centres in determining the kind of cuts that can be survived. Fort Smith does not have the resource base potential on its doorstep that other regions may have. If we want the centre of our northern post-secondary education to thrive, we have to support the community that lives in it. Mr. Speaker, the budget address emphasizes efficiency. One way to be more efficient is to make best use of local resources and a key part of this to me is training, hiring, and promoting northerners. No one knows better than northerners where the problems are with government and how we can continue to adapt the northern government system we have inherited to work better for us.

Mr. Speaker, it does not make any sense to me to invest in northerners at lower levels of our government and then leave a glass ceiling in place. Northerners live here, know what needs to be done and do not come with large removal costs. This government has lost a lot of credibility on this issue, Mr. Speaker, in recent months as a result of recent hiring decisions at senior levels of management. I hope they will take serious note of that and in future try to address that concern.

It was very refreshing to hear the Minister of Finance mention that the Minister of Education is working on a northern employment strategy. However, we are now getting close to half-way through our term and we have been asking for this since we have arrived. It is something I believe strongly in and it has to be done sooner rather than later. Mr. Speaker, many people have been hit hard by the deficit management plan. People have accepted the changes where necessary to provide a better debt free future for us and our children. Ministers and deputy ministers repeatedly told us that there things were cut to the bone. That there was no more room. I would like to believe this is true, Mr. Speaker. I would like to believe that we cut all the extras out. There should not be any frills left when we are cutting back support for single mothers and seniors.

Mr. Speaker, with this budget we will have cut almost a thousand positions in two years. We now have a civil service which is doing as much work as before but with fewer people. I know in my riding we can not take any more position cuts. People are already pushed to the limit. I must say Mr. Speaker, though it is a tradition in government, it disturbs me to hear employees within departments admit that there are still pockets of fat. To hear that we still have senior staff who tell their own staff to be sure to spend all of their budget before year end. If there is a bit of give, we should be spending it where it is needed most, in schools, adult education, income support, child intervention, and above all, job creation. We should not be spending it on nice to have but not necessary travel, computers, or contracts with consultants that may be frivolous on close examination.

Mr. Speaker, this budget represents more change for departments and staff. This translates into disruption to the public as well. It is my hope that government will have the good sense to implement the remaining changes as quickly and as expeditiously as possible to give people time to adjust and settle back into some routine sense of order. Mr. Speaker, it is difficult for all of us to look at the budget from a territorial perspective. It is even harder for me as Member for Thebacha. In my opinion, with the passing of this budget, Fort Smith will have given enough. If there are more reductions in the future, in my opinion, they are going to have to come from the program changes and from reducing the headquarter support staff associated with those programs.

Mr. Speaker, Fort Smith is working very hard to try to increase our economic base. In the long run, the fact that we have better weather and less expensive lots and a cheaper cost of living may in fact benefit us when it comes to attracting workers from the BHP mines and other developments that will take place. As well, local entrepreneurs have been trying to develop small business. There may be spin off benefits down the road for us. As for today, this budget has hurt Fort Smith, as it has hurt just about every other community. As Ministers bring their budgets forward over the next few weeks, I intend to question decisions made and what can be done to lessen the blow. When departments start implementing these changes, I will be watching to make sure there are not additional impacts on the community I represent.

Mr. Speaker, some departments have tried to find ways to help. For example, I greatly appreciate the efforts of the Minister of Health and Social Services to address the under use of the Fort Smith hospital. Rather than just shutting the operation down, they have worked with the community to find a way to provide a smaller hospital facility to make use of other space in the areas of long term care. And as well, as Minister of Justice, they have worked with the community and have found funding to keep open the ladies jail, which is a critical territorial facility they located in Fort Smith.

Mr. Speaker, the budget address talked about encouraging economic development. There is also funding from the budget to support mine training. In Fort Smith, we have a wonderful campus, with facilities available and ready to provide the training required for both existing and new minds. I have heard talk about setting up a mining institute. Mr. Speaker, the last thing we need is a new organization with its own administration and separate new infrastructure. I am all for a mine training institute as an arm of Aurora College, with its main campus of course in Fort Smith can play a major role. I hope the Minister of Education will support this practical approach, which seems to as well supported by the industry.

In the area of parks, Mr. Speaker, I am hoping there will be some flexibility by the Minister. Tourism through the use of parks is an important part of the Fort Smith economy. I do not mind taking reductions to the parks projects plan for Thebacha, but a complete reduction seems out of line for us. We can afford to develop our parks at a slower rate than we had intended, but we can not afford to be cut completely. I am optimistic that we will be able to continue to work with the Minister to resolve this issue and carry on with the parks development as intended in the planning process.

Mr. Speaker, during the standing committee reviews of the proposed budgets, we tried to work co-operatively with Ministers and their staffs to revise and refine changes that have been made. For those Ministers and departments who are open and up front, there will be some tough questions, but their answers have already met the test of the Ordinary Members that are watching out for the interests of their constituents.

However, for those departments who have not been quite as forthcoming, they can expect hard questions, Mr. Speaker. I am not going to support changes which will effect my constituents, such as changes to the fuel subsidy or student financial assistance, or municipal operating grants, unless I am sure all the pros and cons have been thought out before they are implemented, not afterward.

I believe we did what we had to do in these first two budgets of the 13th Assembly. However, I intend to be vigilant in ensuring that measures we approve, cause the least hardship possible for the community I represent. I also intend to push for changes next year, which I hope will improve social conditions and help create more jobs for northerners.

Mr. Speaker, once this budget is passed, I think it is critical, for this government and this Assembly, to look at areas that we can free up assets and get some money that we can focus towards job strategies. Job strategies focused on where the need is, based on the greatest need, through the communities to deliver those programs, such as the student employment program, suggested by my colleague from Yellowknife North and as spoken to by the Minister.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to point out that this budget session will be very trying on all of us and will take a lot of our energy, but we have to remember that we move forward, immediately after this, into areas of job creation and division. We have to maintain the focus and keep the energy to do that properly. So, while we have heated debates, remember we have a long way to go together as an Assembly. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table a letter, Tabled Document 32-13(4), received from Mr. Peter Ernerk, regarding the under-funding of women's programs by this government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table a document, Tabled Document 33-13(4), Alcohol and Drug Counselling Training. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table a letter received from the students of the Dene Cultural Institute Alcohol and Drug Certification Program. The letter is dated January 29th, 1997 and is addressed to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Monday, February 3rd, 1997, I will move the following motion. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that, pursuant to section 79(1) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, that this Legislative Assembly recommends to the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, that Ms. Anne Crawford be appointed as Conflict of Interest Commissioner. Thank you.

I call the committee to order. We have three items on the agenda today. Bill 8, Appropriation Act 1997-98; Committee Report 2-13(4) and Committee Report 3-13(4). Could I get some direction from committee on how you wish to proceed? Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I recommend that we proceed with Bill 8, Committee Report 2 and Committee Report 3, concurrently.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Is that the agreement of the committee?

We will proceed with .... Mr. Krutko.

Report progress?

We have a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is not debatable. I do not have a quorum so I will ring the bell. I recognize a quorum. We have a motion on the floor to report progress. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? Motion is defeated. We will proceed with Bill 8, Appropriation Act, 1997-98. The Executive office has asked to have a 15 minute recess.

-- Break