Madam Chair, we are dealing with a supplementary appropriation today. We are dealing with a specific budget of $135,000. If the question is directed to the supplementary appropriation, my response would be I will look into that. My honourable colleague wishes a more elaborate detailed accounting of jobs being lost through transfers, I would suggest he ask that question in the House tomorrow. I will be only too glad to answer it. Thank you.
Debates of Oct. 15th, 1997
Topics
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1609
John Todd Keewatin Central
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Todd. Regional operations not previously authorized, $135,000. Mr. Picco.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I note that in supplementary appropriation there might be other areas in these numerous papers indicating the same type of activity. I was just trying to make it easier on the Minister's staff that when the opportunity came up, instead of having to ask the question for each individual amount, I would be able to get that information. I will ask that question in the House.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1609
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Picco. Regional operations, not previously authorized, $135,000. Agreed? Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, $309,500. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Public Works and Services operations and maintenance, directorate, not previously authorized, $46,300. Agreed? Thank you. Asset management, not previously authorized, negative $576,000. Agreed? Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, negative $529,700. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Health and Social Services, operations and maintenance, community programs and services, not previously authorized, $12,000. Agreed? Thank you. Support and health administration, not previously authorized, $120,700. Agreed? Thank you. Total department not previously authorized, $132,700. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Justice, operations and maintenance, directorate, not previously authorized, $104,000. Agreed? Thank you. Community justice and corrections, not previously authorized, $50,000. Agreed? Thank you. Lawyer support service, not previously authorized, $62,000. Agreed? Thank you. Registries and Court Services, not previously authorized, $22,000. Agreed? Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, $238,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Moving on to Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, operations and maintenance. Northwest Territories Housing Corporation not previously authorized, $32,000. Agreed? Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, $32,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Education, Culture and Employment, operations and maintenance. Directorate and Administration, not previously authorized, $146,000. Agreed? Thank you. Culture and Careers, not previously authorized, $525,000. Agreed? Thank you. Educational development, not previously authorized, $33,000. Agreed? Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, $704,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Transportation, operations and maintenance, corporate services, not previously authorized, $85,300. Agreed? Thank you. Airports, not previously authorized, $400,000. Agreed? Thank you. Highways, not previously authorized, $38,000. Agreed? Total department, not previously authorized, $523,300. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, operations and maintenance, corporate management, not previously authorized, $99,200. Agreed? Thank you. Environmental protection, not previously authorized, negative $15,000. Agreed? Thank you. Resource Management and Economic Development, not previously authorized, $2,560,634. Agreed? Thank you. Forest Management, not previously authorized, $46,000. Total department, not previously authorized, $2,690,834. Agreed? Thank you.
Department, Legislative Assembly, capital, Office of the Clerk, special warrants, $100,000. Agreed? Thank you. Total department, special warrants, $100,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, capital, community operations, special warrants, $3,562,000. Agreed? Thank you. Community operations, not previously authorized, negative $65,000. Agreed? Thank you. Total departments, special warrants, $3,562,000. Agreed? Thank you. Total department, not previously authorized, negative $65,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Public Works and Services, capital, asset management, special warrants, $258,000. Agreed? Thank you. Not previously authorized, negative $258,000. Agreed? Thank you. Petroleum products, special warrants, $342,000. Agreed? Thank you. Not previously authorized, negative $342,000. Total departments, special warrants, $600,000. Agreed? Thank you. Not previously authorized, negative $600,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Health and Social Services, capital, community programs and services, special warrants, $4,187,000. Agreed? Thank you. Not previously authorized, $203,000. Agreed? Thank you. Total department, special warrants, $4,187,000. Agreed? Thank you. Not previously authorized, $203,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Justice, capital, community justice and corrections, special warrants, $662,000. Agreed? Thank you. Total department, special warrants, $662,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Education, Culture and Employment, capital, culture and careers, special warrants, $600,000. Agreed? Thank you. Educational development, not previously authorized, $851,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Total department, special warrants, $600,000. Agreed? Thank you. Not previously authorized, $851,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Transportation, capital, airports, special warrants, $200,000. Agreed? Thank you. Ferries, special warrants, $240,000. Agreed? Total department, special warrants, $440,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, capital, corporate management, special, not previously authorized. I mean, this is corporate management, not previously authorized $147,000. Agreed? Thank you. Resource Management and Economic Development, special warrants, $50,000. Agreed? Thank you. Not previously authorized, negative $46,000. Agreed? Thank you. Total department, special warrants, $50,000. Agreed? Thank you. Not previously authorized, $101,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Could you please return to the beginning of tab 25, to Bill 25, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2 1997-98. Clause by clause? Clause 1? Agreed? Thank you. Clause 2? Agreed? Thank you. Clause 3? Agreed? Thank you. Clause 4? Agreed? Thank you. Clause 5. Agreed? Thank you. Clause 6. Agreed? Thank you. Clause 7. Agreed? Thank you.
Part 1, vote 1, operations and maintenance, schedule. Part 1, vote 1, operations and maintenance. Total operations and maintenance, $5,493,513. Agreed? Thank you.
Part 2, vote 2, capital. Total capital, $10,691,000. Agreed? Thank you.
Total supplementary appropriations in parts 1 and 2, $16,184,513. Agreed? Thank you.
Bill as a whole. Agreed? Thank you. Does the committee agree that Bill 25 is ready for third reading? Agreed? Thank you. Bill 25, is now ready for third reading. Thank you, Mr. Todd. Thank you, Mr. Voytilla.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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John Todd Keewatin Central
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. I would like to direct the committee Members' attention to Bill 20, An Act to Amend the Property Assessment and Taxation Act. Tab 20 in your green binder. Would the Minister like to introduce the bill? Madame Thompson?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am pleased to have this opportunity to speak to the Committee about the Act to Amend the Property Assessment and Taxation Act. This bill would provide a more streamlined process for collecting outstanding property taxes. The NWT Association of Municipalities has requested these amendments because of the current process which requires taxing authorities to go to court, is often long, complicated and expensive. In some cases, the legal costs are so high that it is not worth it for them to use this process at all, so the taxes remain uncollected for several years.
With these amendments, tax authorities would be able to recover the cost of collecting tax arrears from the property owner. By following procedures set out in this bill, they would also be able to sell land and building for taxes, without going through the courts. These amendments would not allow Municipal taxing authorities or the Department of Finance to sell Indian Affairs Branch, or band land or any land that is exempt from taxation or cannot be sold under a land claims agreement.
Madam Chair, people who do not pay their property taxes are already liable to lose their property through a court order. These amendments would create a different process for recovering taxes. They would not change the end result. Other Canadian jurisdictions already have similar provisions. Today's climate of fiscal restraint makes it especially important to have an effective and efficient way to collect outstanding property taxes.
Municipal taxing authorities in the Northwest Territories should have access to the same remedies as their counter parts, elsewhere in Canada. The NWT Association of Municipalities supports this bill and are anxious to see it passed. The Municipalities and I recognize that individual property rights need to be protected, however, property rights have to be balanced with the responsibility to pay taxes. This is to protect the interests of the community as a whole and of individuals who do pay their taxes.
Madam Chair, this bill includes a number of safeguards to ensure people have several opportunities to pay their taxes before their property is sold. It also includes protection for third parties with registered interest in land, who would be affected by a tax sale. Madam Chair, I am satisfied the new tax bill procedures in this bill will treat everyone fairly. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Ms. Thompson. Would the chairman of the Infrastructure Committee like to present the committees' remarks on the bill?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Bill 20 proposes to amend the Property Assessment and Taxation Act to accommodate changes to a tax arrears, collection process. The amendments set out the procedural steps that a taxing authority must take before and after the sale of a taxable property when collecting an unpaid property tax.
At the 1996 annual general meeting, the Northwest Territories Association of Municipalities requested that MACA review the current legislation to allow for a more streamlined process for the collection of tax arrears. During the committee's deliberations on Bill 20, there were a couple of concerns which the committee raised with the Minister.
These concerns were: no requirement to get the best price for property. The standing committee was advised that such a requirement would be impossible for municipalities to comply with, and would make them vulnerable to law suits. The example given was when someone whose property was sold in the fall, might say, the municipality should have sold it in the spring when property values were higher. Also, municipalities in the general taxation area are liable for tax arrears for lands they own. Paragraph 73(2)(f) of the Property Assessment and Taxation Act, exempts municipalities from taxation. Section 19 of the Property Assessment and Taxation Act states that people who occupy property that belongs to the municipality are treated as the assessed owners of the property and do not have to pay property taxes to the Department of Finance. Madam Chair, the committee is satisfied that the bill provides for a more streamlined process for collecting outstanding property taxes and supports the bill's passage through the House. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Picco. Would the Minister like to bring in witnesses for the consideration of this bill?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I will.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Is the committee agreed? Thank you. Mr. Sergeant-at-Arms. For the record, Minister Thompson, could you please introduce your witnesses?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Madam Chair. To my left is my deputy minister, Penny Ballantyne; to my right is Collette Langlois, my policy advisor for MACA and Shawn Flynn, legislative counsel. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. Welcome to the committee. General comments on the bill? Mr. Krutko.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Thank you, Madam Chair. My question is in relation to lands and communities which are classified as federal lands or IAB lands in regard to the Indian Affairs Branch which are lands reserved for Indians or reserves. In regard to the jurisdiction of those lands which fall within federal jurisdiction, a lot of aboriginal people at this time have built houses on those lands with the understanding as treaty Indians they were exempt from property tax. My question to the Minister is, will this continue on and be the case or will this Act affect in any way those rights that the aboriginal people currently have had or have in their claims agreements? And, if so, what consultation process has taken place with the aboriginal organizations and the Department of Indian Affairs on this particular issue? Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Madam Chair. The answer is no. These amendments would not allow municipal taxing authorities or the Department of Finance to sell Indian Affairs Branch or band lands or any land that is exempt from taxation or cannot be sold under a land claims agreement. This is not for the band lands or the people that are dealing with land claims agreements. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1611
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
The other question is in regard to the taxation subsidy we allow for elders over 60. Will that continue under this arrangement that they will be exempt from property taxes in the smaller communities?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 1611
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Madam Chair. These amendments have nothing to do with property tax. These amendments are for tax sales only. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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David Krutko Mackenzie Delta
Madam Chair, could you have the Minister repeat her answer because I could not hear? There was a little discussion going on my left. I wonder if she could repeat her answer?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Manitok Thompson Aivilik
Thank you, Madam Chair. This does not effect the seniors' subsidy at all. The bill is to amend the Property Assessment and Taxation Act to allow a taxing authority without a court order to sell a taxable property that includes a parcel of land or a leasehold interest in municipal land for the purpose of recovering the arrears of property taxes on the property. This has nothing to do with the senior subsidy on their property tax. Thank you, Madam Chair.