This is page numbers 87 - 170 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Committee Motion 2-13(5): To Amend Committee Motion 1-13(5)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Henry.

Committee Motion 2-13(5): To Amend Committee Motion 1-13(5)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department has a policy of inclusion within our school system. It is governed by the philosophy of inclusion whereby all the students have equal rights and access in our school system and can learn alongside of each other, regardless of their mental or physical or learning abilities. I believe that both educators and administrators and also parents alike have recognized that this policy does not always work well. I would like to ask the Minister when his department is going to recognize that there are some flaws in this policy which schools are mandated to follow? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I do not agree there are flaws in the policy of inclusion. I came across an interesting article just in the past few days where a survey of teachers in Ontario had found that they agreed, almost unanimously, that the policy of inclusion was, in fact, the best way to educate young people. There is concern in our communities that perhaps the policy of inclusion is not as successful as it should be because there is not enough support in the classroom for all of the students. The department has taken notice of this concern. As I have told this House previously, the special needs portion of the school funding formula is the only area in the formula which has increased over the past four years consistently. The department is aware of the concerns and the need to do what we can to provide the best support possible in the classroom. However, the policy itself is still the best way to make sure a program of education is provided to kids with special needs, and we will, therefore, be continuing with it.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Question number three, Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have heard, as well as the Minister has, many positive comments about inclusion and the merits that have come from a social context. I think the flaw is the lack of resources, as the Minister has identified. I suggest that finances and support within the classroom would help to go a long way. I do not, as the Minister has also communicated, have any magic solutions to a shortage of dollars. At the same time, I think it is something that continually has to be looked at, and we just cannot sort of throw our hands up in the air and say, well, we do not have any resources to do a better job. I think we have to find ways to be more creative with the resources that we have. It is important that we do the best job that we can, as I am sure the Minister and the department try. Have there been any creative ideas to alleviate the problem of support in the classroom? Are there any new ways that are being looked at to assist that process that potentially class sizes can be smaller? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 2-13(5): To Amend Committee Motion 1-13(5)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Most of the creativity takes place at the community level. Whether that involves parents in the classrooms, volunteers in the classrooms or other agencies help. A number of creative solutions have been tried in different communities across the Northwest Territories. It really takes the teacher, the parents, the school, the community, getting together and looking at what the needs are, what resources are available and how to best use them. I am confident that our communities, our schools and our teachers will look for those solutions. At the end of the day, an inclusive program is far better for all children with or without special needs than programs that pull students out of the classroom or programs that just warehouse kids because of inadequate resources. I would agree with the Member that we have to look for innovative solutions. The department is looking for ways to continue to increase, as much as possible, the support for special needs kids in the class. I think that the teachers will keep working with us, as will parents and communities.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

My final question, Mr. Chairman. On the question of available resources, there is always a possibility of reallocating resources. I understand that there is a large sum of money contributed by the department to the regions and to school districts to provide bussing. Has there been any discussion with the boards that some of those bussing funds could be used in the classroom? The Minister is probably more aware of how far away most students are from class, but I have always maintained that it would be better to have a teacher in the classroom when the children arrive, rather than having them arrive on the bus and no teacher in the classroom. Has there ever been discussion with the school districts to use some of the resources that are used for activities other than direct instruction in the classroom such as bussing? Thank you.

Committee Motion 2-13(5): To Amend Committee Motion 1-13(5)
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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department basically block funds divisional education councils. The formula is used only as a means of allocating the money from the central government to those councils. Therefore, different councils use their money in different ways. In fact, a good number of the councils have taken a look at the support provided for bussing and have chosen not to use the money for transportation, but to put it into the classroom. It is happening in some areas and is entirely within the councils area of responsibility to determine whether or not to spend any money on bussing or put it all in the classroom. They make those choices.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Questions for Minister Dent. I have Mr. Picco and Mr. Roland in that order. Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, it has been a long evening, and I believe we have set a record or something for the longest sitting in the history of the Northwest Territories legislature. We should congratulate ourselves on that. Thank you, an enthusiastic response.

Committee Motion 2-13(5): To Amend Committee Motion 1-13(5)
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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

But what did we accomplish?

Committee Motion 2-13(5): To Amend Committee Motion 1-13(5)
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Edward Picco Iqaluit

First of all, a short commentary on the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, and the Power Corporation which is under the Minister. On numerous occasions several times now, Mr. Dent has been able to come to my constituency. He has always been available for questions and concerns. I appreciate that. We have had some major concerns especially with student housing and that. On the Power Corporation over the last couple of years, we have had problems with power outages. We had a generator problem, the Minister responded with information on that when asked. I had an opportunity to tour the power plant with the Minister and I appreciate that.

I would like to begin with some questions on the Department of Education. You have had a lot of questions and commentary on student financial assistance over the past two years. Problems with cheques arriving late, with the amount, cheques in the mail kind of situation; cheques not coming off the information system. Most of those seem to have worked themselves out now that we have Education, Culture and Employment staff facilitating that. My question to the Minister of Education is on student financial assistance and the accessibility and availability of those cheques. I wonder if the Minister could let us know indeed how that system now is working since that change? Is there any talk of devolving more of the authority of cheque writing into the regions? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 2-13(5): To Amend Committee Motion 1-13(5)
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

October 23rd, 1997

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Picco, your preamble was on the Power Corporation but your question was on education. Is that two questions?

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, on the preamble I was introducing the Minister as the Minister for Education and the Power Corporation. In my preamble I brought forward the situation regarding both of those departments under the Minister and said I would start my questions under the Department of Education and later in my four questions allotted to me, I would ask him about the Power Corporation which is also under his mandate, for the last two

years. My question was on the student financial assistance. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in regard to Mr. Picco's question about how the system is working, it does appear to be working relatively well. We had some minor problems with issuance of cheques this September when the FIS went down for a couple of days. But staff were able to work very quickly to get things back on stream. I believe by and large, I did not hear of cheques going out any later than ten working days after application which is the target.

One of the tasks I had asked the ministerial forum to look at was to provide advice on the program delivery. I know they heard an awful lot of submissions from students and people who had been involved in the system for a while which included a number of recommendations for improving the delivery of student financial assistance. I am not going to make any promises about devolution or any changes to the program until I have had the chance to review the recommendations contained in that report. I will then discuss them with the department, the standing committee and then this House. It would be premature for me to make any promises about anything at present.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Your second question, Mr. Picco.

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My second question concerns the trades programs. On a couple of instances over the last two years, I have asked the Minister about the opportunity of moving the trades programs like carpentry, plumbing that are located right now at the Thebacha Campus, to the east because we have no facility for those types of trades programs and a lot of our students have to travel to Fort Smith.

With the coming of Nunavut on April 1, 1999, we will have to have those types of programs in our region. I wonder if the Minister, through his department, has looked at this situation? Have they got a strategy in place to make sure that after April 1, 1999, we have those programs ready to take place? Is he looking at transferring some of those programs over? I think it is a cost saving to be able to educate our people in our own region. Again, it is one of the main areas that I would like to see occurring. Thank you.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Dent.

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Given the report that Mr. Todd tabled recently in this House that pointed out it was cheaper to buy new furniture than it was to move the furniture from Yellowknife to Iqaluit, I doubt it would be cost effective to move a bulldozer from Fort Smith to any of the Nunavut communities.

Mr. Chairman, it needs to be recognized that Arctic College has been divided. There are now two colleges, Nunavut Arctic College and Aurora College. They are not connected. They are two completely separate institutions. We have students that attend college from the other jurisdictions. In fact, we have students who attend both colleges from other provinces and the other territory. But it would not be a question of moving something from Fort Smith to Rankin Inlet, Iqaluit or Cambridge Bay. I am prepared to ask the board of Nunavut Arctic College if they have examined the cost effectiveness of providing that sort of training in Nunavut and whether or not they plan to develop such a program. I can get back to the Member with their response.

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Picco.