Debates of Oct. 24th, 1997

This is page numbers 171 - 199 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present
Item 1: Prayer
Item 2: Ministers' Statements
Teachers' Collective Agreement
Royal Commission On Aboriginal Peoples Report Recommendations
Article 24 Contracting Procedures
The National Child Benefit
Results Of Municipal Elections
NWT Protected Area Strategy
NWT Development Corporation
Baffin Fishery
Issues To Address As We Approach Division
Point Of Privilege
Beaufort Delta Leaders Conference
Apology For Comments Regarding Ministerial Performance
Family Wedding Nuptials
Mid-term Review Process
Canada - Greenland Relations
Keewatin Resupply Initiative
Return To Oral Question 2-13: Environmental Liiability Site Inventory
Return To Oral Question 22-13(5): Aurora Fund Eligibility
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Keewatin Pipeline Resupply Proposal
Diamond Mining Regulations
Baffin/kitikmeot Resupply Contracts
Arctic Bay Sewage Lagoon Improvements
Documents Requested Under Rcmp Investigation
Mining Sector Interests In Protected Areas
Aurora Fund Investment Policies
The Wallace Report
Education Board Policy Re: Automatic Pass
Nunavut Arctic College Trades Program
Ntcl Resupply Contract
Eastern Arctic Resupply Costs
Release Of Wallace Report
Content Of The Wallace Report
Written Question 1-13(5): Information On Keewatin Resupply
Tabled Document 5-13(5): Northwest Territories Power Corporation Annual Report; 1996-97
Tabled Document 6-13(5): Plan 2000: Status Report
Tabled Document 7-13(5): Comments On Recommendations: GNWT Review Of Royal Commission On Aboriginal Peoples Report
Tabled Document 8-13(5): Letter From Manitoba Chamber Of Commerce Re: Keewatin Resupply
Item 14: Notices Of Motion
Item 16: Motions
Motions 4-13(5): Review Of Guidelines And Procedures For Requests For Proposals
Motions 6-13(5): Extended Adjournment
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 21: Third Reading Of Bills
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 190

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The purpose of this Act is to amend the financial limits and guarantees made pursuant to the Financial Administration Act and allow the Commissioner or the board of a public agency to make a guarantee, with the approval of the Financial Management Board, in an amount which must remain within the aggregate limit of 15 percent of annual government revenues, as set out in the estimates.

Currently, the Financial Administration Act sets a limit of $500,000 on the Financial Management Board's authority to approve a guarantee. For any guarantee in excess of the $500,000, an Act of this Assembly is required. This limit was set during the early years of government, when guarantees in excess of $500,000 were unusual. As we all know, the economic situation has changed considerably in recent years. More and more governments, including ours, are seeking greater opportunity for expansion of public infrastructure and their economies in a manner which limits the cost to the taxpayer.

One very effective method is to enter into partnerships with the private sector on major projects. Another method is to replace direct contributions and grants with loan guarantees. The amendment to this Act will allow the government more flexibility in entering into public/private partnerships related to the development of infrastructure and other projects to expand our economy and provide employment where it is in the public interest. The Financial Management Board's authority to approve guarantees would be subject to an overall limit set out in the amended legislation.

I can also assure the committee that a process will be put in place for reviewing requests for guarantees that will ensure that each application reviewed by the Financial Management Board will be subjected to rigorous due diligence review and analysis and will be approved or rejected based solely on the economic merits of the project and its potential benefits to the taxpayers in the Northwest Territories.

There will also be clear procedures for ensuring adequate security is provided for and that the government's interest is duly registered. In addition, all Members of the Legislative Assembly will receive formal notice, 14 days in advance, of the final approval of all guarantees over $500,000 that the Financial Management Board is intending to issue.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 190

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. My understanding is there is no committee report on the particular bill. This particular Bill 3 was directly through the committee of the whole. Sorry, referred to the committee of the whole. General comments on the bill? Before I recognize Members to make general comments, would the Minister like to take the witness table?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 190

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I would.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 190

The Chair John Ningark

Do we have the concurrence of the committee? Thank you. Proceed. Mr. Todd, for the record, will you please introduce your witnesses to the committee.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 190

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you. On my immediate right is Mark Aitken, who is the legal counsel for the Legislative Assembly and of course on my immediate left, which is unusual today, is Lew Voytilla, who is the deputy minister of the Financial Management Board. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 190

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Welcome to the committee. General comments? I have Mr. Miltenberger.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 190

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This issue of trying to change the way we capitalize our projects and do our capital planning is one that I have been talking to the

Minister about for at least a year. Very clearly, with the deficit reductions that we have undertaken in the last two years, and the $50 million that was totally removed from the capital budget, we are no longer in a position, as a government, to be able to pay yearly for every capital project that we complete.

Not only that, it makes no financial sense and it is not a good business practice. No corporation does it. No adequately run business does it. Everything is amortized. They spread out the costs and they use their capital to leverage money. There has to be appropriate checks and balances. I think given the issues and the commitments we have in terms of capital infrastructure, and I think of specifically once again the two hospitals, that this is an amendment that is a step in that direction. It does not absolve us as Legislatures and committee members of due vigilance, or Cabinet of good faith, in honouring the intent of this amendment.

This has been reviewed at least three times now by Government Operations, if my memory serves me correctly, trying to come up with a common agreed-to version. So I will be supporting this amendment, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 192

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. There was no question, Mr. Miltenberger? No. General comments? Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 192

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This particular bill has been reviewed a number of times with Members and talked about, in general, I think it is a good process to institute. It will provide the ability for the government to raise funds from other sources which are sorely needed for the possible creation of joint venture type projects. I do have concern with one area, Mr. Chairman. I will be moving an amendment when we come to that area and that is with respect to the 14 day notice to Members. I feel that it would be beneficial to give a longer notice period to Members.

The amount of time could be difficult in the summer time, for example, when Members may be out of their constituency or individuals that Members wish to consult with, may be out of their constituency.

So I feel that a 30-day notice would be more appropriate and at the time we are reading through the bill, clause-by-clause, I will be moving my motions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 192

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. We are dealing with Bill 3, An Act to Amend the Financial Administration Act. Any further general comments from the Members? Mr. Henry.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 192

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will not go over the comments that have been made by the previous two speakers, as it sums up basically how I feel on this proposed amendment. I have also talked to a number of people, particularly the construction association, who, if Members recall, in their last newsletter talked about the shortage of skilled workers and the shortage of work that was available, and there was a recognition that the Government of the Northwest Territories is one of the largest contributors to the construction industry. Subject to suitable responses from the Ministers as we go through the bill, they certainly could support this.

I have also talked to individual members of the association who feel very similar, and they have great concerns about having a skilled workforce available in the territory in the years to come if we do not have some projects to keep these people in the territory right now, that skilled workforce. So subject to acceptable answers from the Minister, I will be supporting the bill also. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 192

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments? Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 192

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the previous Members have indicated, we did meet on this several times in Government Operations, and we talked about many things and for the same reasons I have mentioned, I will be supporting this amendment in its current form. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 192

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Steen, general comments.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 192

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I will be supporting this bill because I feel that if this is the government's response to this Assembly's request to address the shortage of jobs and economic opportunities of this territory, if the government feels this is the type of action that is necessary to get the people to work, I am in support of this. As the other Members have stated, we have in the past two years seen a great reduction in the capital expenditures of this government. As we all know, we have no other way of increasing the funding for capital without cutting our programs and services. Therefore, if Cabinet feels this is the way to go, I will support it. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 192

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. With your support, Mr. Steen, I can see the bill is a done deal, thank you. No? Clause-by-clause. General comments? We are dealing with Bill 3, An Act to Amend the Financial Administration Act. Clause 1? Agreed. Thank you. Clause 2? Mr. Ootes.

Committee Motion 3-13(5): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 192

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that clause 2, of Bill 3, be amended by striking out 14 days in proposed subsection 67(1.1) and by substituting 30 days.

Committee Motion 3-13(5): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 192

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The motion in its written form is being circulated to all Members of the committee and the motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Ootes.

Committee Motion 3-13(5): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 192

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Yes, the reason for my interest in moving this amendment is to allow the MLA who is to be notified with 14 days, more time, so that proper consultation can take place. In all fairness, the appropriate period of time, if it is extended from 14 to 30 days, I believe that would be quite adequate time for the individual to do surveys and consultation on this. So that is my purpose, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 3-13(5): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 193

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Miltenberger.

Committee Motion 3-13(5): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 193

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will not be supporting this amendment. As I indicated in my opening comments, this matter and bill was reviewed in committee several times, there were a number of rewrites, a lot of give and take to come to the agreement that we did. I think I am prepared to stick by what we our final agreement was, which is what this bill reflects. I do not want to argue with Mr. Ootes about the merit of his amendment. It is just an 11th hour issue and I want to stick with what we agreed to, not having had the chance to fully discuss this particular issue. I think it is important to move ahead. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-13(5): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 193

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. Erasmus.

Committee Motion 3-13(5): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 193

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As Mr. Miltenberger has indicated, we did meet on this several times and this was passed back and forth. It was after much discussion that we finally arrived at the version that is in here. To now come up with another amendment to try to change what we had agreed to, I cannot support this. This is a very important amendment that we are trying to get through here. Several of us have been after the Finance Minister to get this done for months. We finally are getting close, so I cannot support this particular amendment. Thank you.

Committee Motion 3-13(5): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 193

The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. To the motion. Mr. O'Brien.

Committee Motion 3-13(5): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 3, An Act To Amend The Financial Administration Act
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 193

Kevin O'Brien Kivallivik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I note the change from 14 days to 30 days. I would ask the mover if he could provide more clarification and details as to why he feels this is necessary. Thank you.