This is page numbers 557 - 601 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you.

-- Break

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

I would like to call the committee back to order. Mr. Minister, during questions from the Members, do you wish to bring in witnesses?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Yes, I would, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Do we agree?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Agreed. Sergeant-at-Arms, please seat the witnesses. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Minister, would you please introduce the witnesses?

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Mr. Chairman, to my left is Ken Lovely, the deputy minister of Public Works and Services and to my right is Dave Waddell, the outgoing director of finance with Public Works.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Welcome to the committee.

Before we get into general comments I would like to remind all the Members that general comments should be general in nature and questions should be assigned to a particular activity. Understood? No? Mr. Enuaraq.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a question regarding the Minister's opening remarks, if you would allow me, Mr. Chairman?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Yes, Mr. Enuaraq. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Tommy Enuaraq Baffin Central

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the Minister of DPW indicated that ownership and operations of the buildings and equipment are going to be transferred to such and such communities and one of those communities is Pangnirtung, which is my community, my question to the honourable Minister is that, when are those transfers going to be finalized? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

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Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

It will just take a moment to find that information, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, Pangnirtung along with several other communities have been sent draft CTI agreements and are reviewing them and once they have made their comments and given us their input, we have hope the actual transfer take place early in the new fiscal year.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. The question asked was, in fact, an activity asset management, but the Member was also responding to the opening remarks from the Minister. That was on the borderline. General comments from Members. Mr. Ootes.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Last week I asked the Minister a number of questions regarding the contract award system and I would like to repeat some of those comments and then later on during general questions, I would like to pose a number of questions to the Minister for further clarification.

I have stated a number of times that to me and to certain contracting people that are in the contracting business and members of the NWT Construction Association, we feel that there are aspects of the system that are unfair. About 20 to 25 percent of the government's contracts are done through sole-sourced, negotiated, or construction management proposals, or site superintendent services, among some. Certainly there may be more, but those are the ones that I have been able to flush out. I am putting a figure of about $30 million on that value are done through those particular areas.

I guess the concern I have, Mr. Chairman, is the whole area of openness and the ability for the public and for us to know that we are getting value for our money. Certainly that has to be a great concern during these very, very tight economic times that we are facing. We have to remember here in the north the whole philosophy of what private enterprise is and how it works and what it stands for. Some of these tendering areas are challenging that philosophy, in my opinion. We have responsibility to be very open with the public and so, as I said earlier, I will be asking a number of questions in this area, seeking some statistical information and some rationalization of why these programs exist. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. General comments. Mr. Miltenberger.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have some brief comments, if I may? The Department of Public Works and Services has been, without doubt, under severe organizational stress now for the last year. It is probably one of the most heavily impacted departments with all the cuts.

Now that the amalgamation is not on the table any further within the life of this government, I think that one of the key issues for me is the whole area of the stability in dealing with the very apprehensive communities and staff that are trying to work under, at best, what could be described as trying times, so that there can be some sort of constancy in the lives of the communities and the peoples in the department. Public Works and Services was caught up, like the rest of the government, in these reductions and I know speaking for my constituency for sure, the impact there has been significant and people are very apprehensive.

I recognize that there is still a need to pursue organizational efficiencies in the areas of duplication that the Minister talked about between Housing Corporation and Transportation and Public Works and Services. What I am also going to be asking very seriously, and I am hoping that the ministry as well will commit to that kind of stability so that the employees will know that once this round of targets are hit and reductions are done, that people can get on with their lives, get on with their jobs, get on with the planning and the good work that they have to do in the department that they work in.

I am also very interested and will be, like the Minister I suppose and his officials, looking to see the impact of user pay/user say as it is being implemented and the effects are realized by the departments. There are concerns out there that have been transmitted to the Minister by a number of MLAs, so I think that is another issue of concern. Last but not least, regarding this budget is the session to follow this, where we will be looking at the divisional plans as we start moving towards the final 700 and some days to division. It is not specifically germane to this particular budget, but it is going to flow out of this, I am sure, how the structure will look and I am very interested in that. Those are my opening comments, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

General comments. Mr. Steen.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, as a Member of the Infrastructure Committee I have had opportunity to ask many questions of DPW regarding the overall operation of this department, including privatization initiatives and also transfer of ownership and operations of building and equipment and other government infrastructure to the communities. I appreciate all the information that the department has supplied to the Members. I have still, at this point in time, some outstanding concerns regarding privatization of POL. I am sure that the Minister is aware that I brought it to his attention in the past. There are people in the communities who are awaiting this government's decision as to privatization of POL and how that privatization will affect them, either as individuals, contractors, or the community as a whole. I would urge the government to come up with a decision on this matter as soon as possible, and I am quite pleased to see that they are trying to come forward with a decision by March of this year. I am sure that this would serve to assure the general public that this government does have the ability to operate on a longer term basis than a month to month. It does have the ability to plan longer than a month at a time, because people do get that impression now that we have so many things on hold, pending decisions of the Cabinet or of this government as a whole. I would encourage the Minister to try and address this issue of contractors being on a month to month basis.

My other concern is, there are departmental staff that are on hold, will probably be served pink slips and wondering whether or not they are still going to have a job in the future. I believe we as a government have a responsibility to make a decision in this matter as soon as possible. I have a number of concerns in regards to the transfer of ownership and operation of buildings and equipment and other GNWT infrastructure to the communities. I do not want to see the communities down loaded with all this infrastructure, unless both the government and the community agree that they can handle this responsibility. I would think, and I would strongly suggest to the department that they come up with a policy, whereby a criteria is established, and communities would have to meet this criteria in order to be able to apply for this responsibility. They have to show that they are capable of taking on this responsibility and continuing with the service that was expected by the public. I am sure that most communities will be responsible enough to do this. However, there are so many new things coming into play, like the increased cost of fuel, the increased cost of power, that the communities will have assistance to analyze all these new costs and to analyze the long-term impacts of taking on these responsibilities and I hope that the government would give them all the assistance possible while encouraging them to take on these responsibilities. There will be a continuing monitoring to ensure that the standards that the communities have now begun to expect of this government and they are used to receiving this standard of service and I hope that the standard of service is not going to drop. I hope that this department will continue to assure that the maintenance to the buildings does not fall below acceptable standards. In particular, safety standards in those buildings, so that we do not end up with large new costs if we have fires or whatever contributing towards the costs of establishing new buildings.

But overall, the Minister seems to have indicated in his opening remarks that his department feels confident that they are proceeding as planned. There really is not much that I as a Member can do other than encourage them to keep in mind that they are making large transfers of responsibilities to these communities. I hope that they support these communities. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you, Mr. Steen. General comments from the membership. Do we agree we go line-by-line, page-by-page?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We are page 5-8 directorate, Public Works and Services, operations and maintenance. Total operations and maintenance is $12,245,000. Mr. Roland. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is in the process of bidding and tendering, you have got a section here on non-competitive contracting. How many times is this used in your contracting out? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Qujannamiik. The honourable Minister.