Thank you. I have Mr. Erasmus. Perhaps, after Mr. Erasmus, we should take a break. Mr. Erasmus.
Debates of Feb. 25th, 1997
Topics
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This in the area of National School Achievement Indicators Program. Did the Minister indicate that he does not know how many schools were involved in this particular testing?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I indicated to Mr. Henry, I do not have that detail with me and would be happy to provide it to this committee as soon as possible.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Educational development, Mr. Erasmus.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In an effort to find out where students are not meeting the national standard, is it possible just to photocopy the tests the students do and then have the teachers themselves from the schools mark them, or have them sent to a central location and corrected here in the Northwest Territories, so that we can see for ourselves where perhaps the problems may lie? Thank you.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. The honourable Minister. Mr. Dent.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think I have already answered this question. To participate in this program, we have had to agree, across Canada, to the protocol. The protocol is such that none of the jurisdictions will separate out the information by school. We are either all in the program or we are all out. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Educational development, Mr. Erasmus.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
What does the Minister mean by not separating out by school?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Dent.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What that means is the marking and dissemination of results will be handled by the Council of Ministers of Education of Canada. It will be all done in the same format with jurisdictions not having
access to the individual exams or where they came from or how individual students did.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Mr. Erasmus, question Number four.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
I believe it is Number three, but I do not want to debate it. I agree it is Number four. I would like the Minister to indicate why we have agreed not to separate the results of our schools or regions? I am not looking at individual students, but I think it would be worthwhile to know the different areas at least where people may not be meeting the national standard. So, why have we agreed to this?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. We will check out the Hansard tomorrow. Mr. Minister.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, first of all, there are no national standards. Education is an exclusive jurisdiction of each province and territory. What we have agreed with Human Resources Development Canada is to conduct tests so each jurisdiction can have a snapshot of how their curriculum is performing in comparison to other jurisdictions in Canada. As I understand it, there was significant opposition among jurisdictions to participate if the results could be used to single out schools or regions or individuals and how they were performing. Therefore, the Ministers of Education from across Canada would only agree to the program if it were run on a broad base. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. Educational development. Mr. Erasmus, final supplementary.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North
Mr. Chairman, perhaps the Minister could indicate why they do not want the people who are doing the tests at the national level, why do they not want to separate out to different regions? I do not mean provinces but the smaller regions. Why do they not want to do that?
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. The honourable Minister. Mr. Dent.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I have been saying, this test is only one small tool in the arsenal of all jurisdictions to assess their curricula. It would be dangerous to be taken as an indicator of how a school or a region is doing. It is intended to be used only to give us some broad-based performance indicators and not specific ones. There is no way a test could be designed that would be valid for all of the regions of Canada. That has to be recognized when you are talking about a nationally-provided test. Given the cost and the fact that it gives us a snapshot of how our curriculum is performing in relation to the curriculum of other jurisdictions for the amount of money we invest, which is $3,000 or $4,000, it is another tool that helps us when we are making decisions about our curriculum. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair John Ningark
Thank you. We will take a 15 minute break. Thank you.
-- Break
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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The Chair Vince Steen
I would like to call the committee to order. For the record we are on Bill 8, Appropriation Act, 1997-98. We are on Education, Culture and Employment, educational development, page 9-20, operations and maintenance. Mr. Picco.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a motion, a committee motion.
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Committee Motion 25-13(4): Recommendation To Retain Baffin And Keewatin Regional Librarians In The 1997-98 Budget
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
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Edward Picco Iqaluit
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that this committee recommends the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment take measures to ensure the regional librarian positions in the Baffin and Keewatin regions remain in the budget for 1997-98.