Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Miltenberger, final question.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Under this item of information systems and having these databases, does

that also include timber inventories or is that a separate area as an information-based database?

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I am not certain how exact the information would be. I think the remote sensing maps would show you where the timbered areas are. It may show variations, for instance, where it might be straight birch or poplar trees as opposed to spruce or pine, where there are largely dead trees, burnt areas, and disease. I think in regard to potential timber volumes, you would still have to do some on the ground estimations to do a proper job. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. I have Mr. Roland and Mr. Steen. We are on page 11-10, total operations and maintenance, $9,305,000. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My question to the Minister of Human Resources, with the amalgamation, there has been a lot of affected employees that have been left hanging for a while. I heard Mr. Miltenberger comment on it and raise a couple of questions. I have raised this concern before with the department and understand the Minister earlier answered one of Mr. Miltenberger's questions, that he leaves the hiring of staff to his senior officials. My concern is an area when you have long-time employees in the community that become affected by it, is it a policy of this government to go beyond the community, if those people are still in the community to fill the position? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, if we feel the newly-created positions in the department cannot be filled or taken on by the current staff within the community, we will look to bring, in the first instance, affected employees from other regions who we feel can do it. That has been our approach in this case. I think it drives the very critical point as well that we think people have to be prepared to move where the jobs are. We cannot always bring the jobs to the people. We cannot organize a department around where people would prefer to live. There are careers in the government and it very often means having to enjoy a certain amount of mobility in the course of your career. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Madam Chair. If you feel you cannot fill it from within the community initially and then go beyond into the rest of the affected employees and you still do not receive satisfactory applications, what is the next process?

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Kakfwi.

First of all, we would try to fill it from within the community and the region. Then we would give the first opportunity after that to affected, suitable employees within the department. If that does not provide a suitable, acceptable candidate, then we offer it to affected employees within the government of the Northwest Territories from other departments. If we meet with no success there, we make it a public, open competition.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My concern comes from the way we have had some of these employees in positions for many years doing very similar jobs, where they are in acting positions or so on, we find them at this time, for whatever position is available, not acceptable. I am wondering who is making those decisions as to who is acceptable? Is there a committee of senior managers or is it your final decision? Who are the ones who are looking at these? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Madam Chair. In just about all cases where we are interviewing to fill a certain position, there are local people that assist in the hiring, the screening and the interview process. There are local people involved in the hiring committee, so it is not just the department. From our side, usually we have, depending on the level of position being filled or being interviewed for, perhaps right up to the deputy minister involved in the process. I should point out again, it is true that there are some people who have done jobs in Economic, Development and Tourism in the past, or who have done a great job in Renewable Resources, all of a sudden now have to function with both responsibilities that were solely confined to Renewable Resources previously, now have to deal with Economic Development and Tourism responsibilities as well. In some cases, they have admitted they do not feel they are able to cope or deal with it. In some cases, it has not been a difficulty. In some cases, it has been seen by the hiring committees to be a major difficulty. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Is this number five for you, Mr. Roland? I think so. Thank you. Go ahead.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will take your count as the correct one. I am not one to challenge authority. My final question in this area will be, in my region of Inuvik, who would be on that committee if there were local people? Now, I am not looking for actual names, but who would be involved in that process? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Madam Chair. In the case of a senior regional position, for instance at a superintendent level, it would involve either Mr. Gamble, Mr. Doan or Mr. McLeod. It would involve someone from the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation and the Gwich'in. I believe the town of Inuvik was invited as well. Of course, we have human resource officers involved in the process to make sure that it is

consistent and fair in the way the interviews and the applicants are dealt with. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. We are going to allow Mr. Steen to ask questions, then I am going to call a break. Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to ask the Minister some more questions on traditional knowledge. Madam Chair, I do not disagree with the Minster, traditional knowledge might be a good thing, it might have scientific value, it might even have medical value, maybe even spiritual value. I am not arguing that. All I was asking the Minister was what expenditures his department had to obtain this traditional knowledge? I have been given vague answers. First there were two PYs, then it turned out one was vacant. Along with that was a consultant. Maybe the Minister does not want to tell me how much the consultant is getting paid. That is fine. Could he combine those total costs to give me and this committee an idea how much his department is spending on obtaining and documenting traditional knowledge? The other point I would like to make, Madam Chair, is the Minister says it is not a cost, it is a saving but he cannot identify it. We can identify a cost. Maybe we cannot identify the saving. Maybe it is there. I am not arguing that. The point is, I want to know what that cost is. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Madam Chair. If the Member is satisfied with a round figure, I would suggest to him it would be about less than $150,000 a year we have allocated specifically for traditional knowledge within the department including the O and M, the PY assigned and the consultant. Again, the work the consultant is doing will tell us some things, one being whether or not the way we are allocating resources within the department and the way we are trying to deal with the value of traditional knowledge is done in a way reflecting the respect and the attention traditional knowledge should receive from this government. If we are not organized in a way reflecting the significance and the importance we say we attach to traditional knowledge, then I want to know. If there are ways we can enhance our operation as a department, if there are some ways I, as a Minister and future Ministers, can enhance our performance and our responsibilities through the recognition and the way we relate to traditional knowledge, then I want to receive that advice.