This is page numbers 919 - 954 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

What we are tentatively targeting is approximately $204,000 for the next fiscal year. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That figure seemed to be familiar to me because when I look at the 1996/97 capital estimates, again there were no prior year costs, so I do not know where the $300,000 came from. There were no future years anticipated in the 1996/97 capital, but now the figure the Minister just gave me was the figure spent last year, $204,000. Is the Minister telling me that there is a typographical error last year also for Sylvia Grinnell Park and now this year again? There is an error for prior year costs and future years again, but he is telling me there is money in the capital. My point is again maybe only in Sylvia Grinnell Park, only in two books, two mains, there seems to be mistakes. I want this clarified because it is an important project. I brought representation to the Minister, I went to the Resource Committee months ago on this and it seems to me there are discrepancies. I do not want to make any allegations and I am not making allegations, but it does not make any sense here. I do have the 1996/97 mains and there is no anticipated and there were no prior year costs. The Minister just told me prior year costs was $300,000. In the capital estimates from last year, I see $204,000, which is the same amount now that is supposed to be in the budget for next year. Could someone clarify it please?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This substantiation document, breaking down the projected expenditures we propose to make in the next few years, was given to the standing committee. It is an error of omission. In the detail that you have before you, on the budget estimates, it reads a blank and it should not have.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Buildings and works, Baffin. Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I am not trying to be adversarial, I am not trying to make any accusations. So, the Minister will confirm now, for the record in the Hansard, that indeed future years anticipated for '97, '98, '99, which is next year, the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development is actually budgeting $200 and some odd for this park. Every other Member in this House can look at their capital in parks and visitors' service and those Members can see what is in the capital estimates prior year costs, future's anticipated and total capital projections. I cannot because it is not listed because of a typographical error. When I go back in my book from last year's main estimates, the same problem occurred again. Maybe it is just an Iqaluit thing, I do not know. I would like the Minister to confirm right now, for the record, what the actual capital expenditure projections are for next year and the total capital projections for the Hansard.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

What we needed was some clarification and I thought I had provided it. For the information of the Member, as it only showed a capital expenditure this year of $50,000, that the prior year's cost was shown as a blank. I am saying now, it should show $332,000. That presently it shows a blank and I am telling him it should read that we anticipate and, we propose in future years, to spend an additional $939,000, subject to the fiscal outlook remaining the same for this government and subject to approval of next year's budget and the subsequent budgets. It is only our proposal that if we start spending money and continue to do so under the current fiscal conditions, we would propose to spend an additional $939,000 on this particular park over the next four to five years. Approximately $200,000 per year is what we propose to spend over the next four to five years. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 932

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, can the Minister tell me what the actual expenditures were last year? I know now and thank the Minister for anticipating $939,000 over the next x number of years, I still do not know what is in the budget for next year. I understood it was $200,000 for this year, it is only $50,000. I would like to know how much was expended for 1996/97 exactly? And I will ask the same question again, what is proposed for next year in their revised capital plan?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Picco, for the record, can you identify for me what you are talking about, whether it is the regional office Iqaluit or whether it is Sylvia Grinnell Park?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, for the record, I am looking at page 11-16, Sylvia Grinnell Park, Iqaluit.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, I am kind of lost as to what the Member is seeking. Is he seeking more money, less money? I am not clear any more what the Member is seeking. What I have said is, in prior years we spent $332,000, which means since this park was first designated as a park, we have spent a total of $332,000. This year, as you can see, we are proposing to spend $50,000. Next year, as I have said, we are proposing to spend $204,000. That is what we are anticipating we will propose to spend. A breakdown, year by year, of what we propose to spend in the last five

years or since the park was first designated, with what we had actually spent? If that is the case, we can provide that, but it is not available right here. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you. I am not sure, Mr. Kakfwi, if the Hansard got your total reply. The mike was off for a while. Could the Minister repeat his response?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I will begin with my last statement. If the Member is asking for a breakdown of the $332,000, which is the total amount that we have spent on this particular park since its inception, I do not have that information here. If he is asking for a breakdown of the annual proposed expenditures on this park with the actual expenditure at year end, we can provide it to him but it is not available to me right here. Previous to that, I just made the comment that I am really unclear about what the Member is trying to get at. Is he trying to increase the amount that we are spending or decrease it? I am not clear what the intent of his questions are. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Picco, for the information of the Members, the main estimates only include those projects that are in progress. Many are multi-year projects that take two or three years to complete. Members should refer to the five year capital plan when looking at future spending on infrastructure projects. Therefore, prior year costs could be actual costs but, like the Minister said, this is a forecasted amount of expenditures. I am sure the Member understands that. Do you have a further question, Mr. Picco?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Edward Picco

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I guess it is as clear as mud. The point I was trying to make is this, Mr. Chairman. If I look at the '96/97 main estimates detail of capital, there was $204,000 approved last year to be expended in my park in the constituency of Iqaluit. That would mean, according to Mr. Kakfwi's figures which, with the prior year costs of $332,000 in the past 12 to 15 years, since that park has been in place there has been $108,000 spent over that 12 year period which gives me the total of $332,000. When I look at the 97-98 main estimates, Mr. Chairman, the total budget is $50,000 but there is no prior year's cost and there were no future years anticipated and it seems to be a typographical error according to the Minister. Then the Minister came back for clarification purposes and he said that for next year, you are looking at $204,000 budgeted for 1998-99 for my park for Iqaluit. But that was also the same amount that was in 1996/97 which is $204,000. The two points that I am trying to make are was it the same typographical error or omission just for Sylvia Grinnell Park in both books and I would take the Minister's word that it is a coincidence again, but I guess that is what happened. Then my question on the $50,000 was, how much money was spent last year, because there was $204,000 budgeted. How much was actually spent? Was the total spent? Because if that was the case, it shows that park, which has been in existence for about 12 years, has had $332,000, roughly less than $12,000 a year over that period of time.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Picco. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Mr. Chairman, perhaps the deputy minister would be more clear and concise in his response to Mr. Picco's question. I will give him the opportunity to clear it up. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Mr. Kakfwi, thank you. Mr. Kakfwi, it is my understanding that he wants to know how much money was spent last year on that park and he wants to know what the future years' estimates would be under future years anticipated. That is my understanding of the question. Mr. Kakfwi.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I was just trying to pass off the question, the response to my deputy minister because I thought I already said and responded to the question that I do not have those figures about the actual expenditures last year and the previous year. The proposed expenditures as they were shown in the main estimates with the actual year-end expenditures, I do not have that information. That part of the question I thought I answered. The other part, which I understand he is asking is the previous year's estimate of $204,000 just coincidence that it is the same as what I am proposing to spend next year, maybe it is coincidence. I do not know. This is all done within the department. I was trying to ask my deputy minister to take the opportunity to give a real, nice, clear concise answer to Mr. Picco.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. I thought you were asking for a clear question from Mr. Picco again. It is my misunderstanding. I recognize Mr. Gamble.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Gamble

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before this year, the actual expenditures were $128,000. The current year budget is $204,000. The current year is not complete yet and I do not have the expenditures to date with me. We can certainly get that information to see what the actual expenditures are or are projected to be by the end of this current 1996-97 year. As noted, we have budgeted for '97-'98. $50,000 and the projected numbers, which are shown in the five year capital plan, are $204,000 for '98-'99, $237,000 for '99-2000, and $200,000 and $300,000 in the next two years. The only actuals we can provide are prior years. This year we will do that. We can certainly provide actuals at the close of the year and we certainly can provide the Member with year-to-date expenditures on that project. Thank you.