Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Well, I will be honest with you, and answer it if I can. You know there have been program cuts, and there are continuing program cuts, and every time we cut, most of you pass motions to put them back in. I am not sure how we will ever satisfy any of the people, or anytime where we may satisfy some of the people some of the time.

Our employee morale, I think, is understandable right across the country from Newfoundland to BC, from shore to shore, where you are cutting and making government smaller, as we all have to do. You are going to have a problem with employee morale. That is unfortunately just one of the situations that prevails in this difficult time.

I thought, in my budget address, we tried to reassure and compliment what Mr. Ootes said, and that was in relationship to our obligation to our staff as it relates to division. I do not want to be disrespectful to anyone, but let me tell you, I am going to repeat again, division is a reality. Mr. Ootes said he was concerned about the damage in terms of the relationship. He should be concerned about the damage to the relationship if he implies that we should slow it down. The bottom line is that you have to get on the band wagon here, and make this thing work in a timely manner, because those who will be the new legislators are watching what is going on, and they may in fact, if I can be so bold, resent any implication that this thing should be held up.

We need to move swiftly, not slowly. We need to reassure our employees, as we did in the budget, that they will be given an opportunity in the Nunavut government. I want to remind everyone, it is two new governments, not just one. You are obligated through legislation to move on division. I am trying to reassure this House, and my honourable colleague Mr. Steen, that discussions are under way with Mr. Martin and the federal government on the fiscal side of things. But to talk about relationships, we need to demonstrate to our colleagues in the east and the west that we are going to move on a timely, efficient way to put some government in place. I feel very, very strongly about that.

I would suggest to you that there should be no reluctance to move on this issue. We are already, and I have said this on a number of occasions, behind the eight ball, as they say, on the division issue. So, again, on the employee morale, I understand that Mr. Ootes has a large civil servant constituency, so have I. Unfortunately, in the era of cutbacks, we are going to have some uncertainty, and it is just a by-product of the fact that we are sitting with a deficit.

I think over the next short while, once this budget is approved, assuming we get the cooperation of the House, we will be able to bring some stability, and some reassurance to our hard working employees that their jobs are relatively secure. But suddenly, I have to say, for the record, there is going to be a significant shift in jobs, as it relates to Nunavut as we move east and west. That is just a reality. That is not something you have to hide from, that is something you have to confront.

You have to confront it up front, in a productive, efficient way. I intend to do that, and will try to do it as fairly and equitably as possible. So I look forward to the debate on the budget, particularly as it relates to division in the coming months, and I am optimistic that my federal counterpart, Mr. Martin, is sympathetic, and that we will be able to move forward in an orderly way with the official's committee to initiate discussions on financing of the two territories in March. Thank you.

Thank you. General comments? We have Mr. Ootes and Mr. Steen. Mr. Ootes.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

My honourable colleague is certainly entitled to his opinion, but he certainly has given me the impression over the last 12 months that he wants to keep slowing it down, and has not come forward with any constructive analysis of what we should do. I have already said in the House, and I have said to the point of being repetitive, that we are going to bring in a pre-implementation plan to move forward in an orderly and efficient manner towards the division of the two territories. And a decision as to whether we decentralize or whether community empowerment, et cetera, should go ahead, should be made by the people themselves. So, I want to reassure him just so he understands that we intend to bring in a paper which he will have an equal opportunity, as others will, to make comment on, with respect to the pre-implementation of an east/west, not just east, east/west pre-implementation division plan and seek the appropriate funding to do it with the federal government.

It is not our intent to turn the lights on April 1 and have, in an ideal world, the whole of the government be sitting in Nunavut, although that would be my obvious personal preference. The reality, both the fiscal and the practical reality of that, simply can not occur. But I am not going to sit back and not move aggressively in putting together some option papers for consideration by this House and other parties, NTI and the federal government, as to how we move forward. And as the constitutional discussions unfold, in the west, as we hope they will, we will then have to meet these requirements on an on-going basis. And I may mean a decentralized regional type of government, I do not know. It is not for me to say, but the reality is it is the will of the people. The people have spoken. Parliament has put the legislation in place. We should just get on with the job and we should do it in a timely, orderly, and efficient way and that is what I intend to do as the Minister responsible for putting together the division strategy. Thank you.

Thank you. We have Mr. Steen. General comments. Your time is up, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Steen.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Well, it just gave me an opportunity to embellish the discussion, because Mr. Steen had made some comments while the Premier was at the table and I was Minister listening intently to Mr. Steen's position as it relates to division and the formal financing arrangements. Thank you.

Thank you. Are there further general comments? Mr. Henry.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a couple of brief comments to make and I am also extremely interested in the affirmative action policy and I believe a lot of my constituents are on both sides of the fence. I would look forward to the presentation of the affirmative action review and I would also like to ensure that review would be presented to the Infrastructure Committee as the Financial Management Board is a department of that particular committee. I would certainly look forward to the debate that will eventually take place on affirmative action. I think there are many sides that need presenting in this particular area.

The only comment I have in regards to the Financial Management Board Secretariat, it has to do with the Minister's comments in the House. I think the government as a whole have put some effort into reassuring the present Government of the Northwest Territories staff of its stance and position as regards to their future employment with the creation of the two new territories. I am very disappointed and I think there is probably a lot of staff who will feel very disappointed at the position of the government, where they suggest that the headquarters staff should have hiring priority for Nunavut positions and I think there will be many questions that will have to be answered around that situation, if in fact it does not come to pass. The costs that will be incurred and the hardship that will be created on a number of people should the headquarters staff not have hiring priority on Nunavut positions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

Well, first of all, it was my intent on the affirmative action/northern labour policy to go to Government Ops, but it may be that it does have government wide policy ramifications that I find another method so that everybody is hooked into this so I can seek their advice. I appreciate what my colleague said on that issue, and it is certainly not our intent to circumvent anybody. You know, sometimes when you are in negotiations and when we are talking about division of the territories, these are very sensitive negotiations and it is three parties at the table. And sometimes there is a time to be direct and sometimes there is a time to be diplomatic and my response to my colleague was, well he is disappointed. It is time to be diplomatic because we have not quite got to the need for directness. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Ootes. Mr. Henry, are you still asking questions? Mr. Ootes did indicate he wanted to speak, so are you okay now for the time being, Mr. Henry? Mr. Ootes.

There is a motion on the floor to report progress and the motion is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion please signify. Opposed. The motion is carried. I will rise and report progress to the Speaker. Thank you. I would like to thank the Ministers and the witnesses. Thank you.

Thank you. Your committee has been considering Bill 8, and Committee Report 3-13(4) and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with.

Thank you. Seconded by Mr. Picco. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Item 22, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, orders of the day.

Mr. Speaker, the meeting of the Constitutional Working Group at 6:00 p.m. this evening. Meetings for tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. of the Standing Committee of Government Operations, at 10:30 the Ordinary Members' Caucus, and at 12:00 p.m. of the Management Services Board.

Orders of the day for Wednesday, February 5, 1997:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and

Other Matters

- Bill 8, Appropriation Act, 1997-98

- Committee Report 2-13(4), Standing Committee on Government

Operations Report on the 1997-98 Main Estimates

- Committee Report 3-13(4), Standing Committee on Infrastructure

Report on the 1997-98 Main Estimates

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Readings of Bills

22. Orders of the Day

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Wednesday, February 5, 1997, at 1:30 p.m.

-- ADJOURNMENT