This is page numbers 985 - 1015 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am just mentally counting in my head whether it was four or five that I have asked. Whether this is my fourth question, thank you, but that is fine. The way I see this evolving is that we have not resolved the idea of the policies the territorial government has and how they apply within the communities. We have not yet dealt with affirmative action. We have not yet dealt with the GST question, which will apply to communities. I think on that matter, Mr. Chairman, we see a five percent reduction to the community transfer payments and we see on top of that a seven percent additional GST cost. To me that is a 12 percent change in availability of money. This concerns me in the long run. We spoke earlier about an assessment needing to be done on putting infrastructure into communities, but communities not having the availability of funding to keep these facilities operating, and the potential is very strong on that in the future. I am making a statement.

I am concerned about the speed with which this whole program is going. We seem to be doing this, we seem to be transferring airports, we seem to be transferring this, and we are going at this in a tremendous, enthusiastic wonderful way. As I have said, I am all for it. I am very concerned about thinking this thing through, ensuring the communities do not get harmed in the process. The potential is there for that to a great degree. It seems to me we are not thinking through some of the legislative areas, some of the liability areas, and some of the whole areas of how our policies apply in the communities. I am just referring to two of them, Mr. Chairman, the Business Incentive Policy and the Affirmative Action Policy. For affirmative action, this government is attempting to do its best to address and ensure that people in the communities get jobs, but we cannot extend that control to the communities themselves. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We only do community transfers if the community initiates it. We are not rushing the communities with this priority. The communities can think on their own. When they initiate an interest, we go in there and introduce them to the community empowerment presentation. We are consulting with the communities. We will deal with these issues before the transfers take place, but the Member's concerns and views are welcomed. I would just like to thank the Member for his concerns. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. We have Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Steen, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The issue mentioned by Mr. Christensen on reviewing their criteria on the community contributions to me is one of interest, especially as money gets tighter. People are going to be looking at how money is allocated and what resources are shared around. I was sitting here trying to do some basic math. If I took the $17,000 as a figure that is given to us on a per capita basis, the federal government transfers. I just took three different other numbers. I took Yellowknife, for instance. I recognize there are other variables here, but if I look at Yellowknife with 16,000 people, just with the transfer of $17,000 that works out to $172 million a year. If I take a community with 3000, it works out to about $51 million. A community of 200 is about $3,400,000. I think the issue of fairness and equity is one that is going to become of great importance. There is a clear understanding there has to be equalization.

We have to support each other, but there has to be recognition that there are costs. I am concerned we have created a high level of expectation among communities. I do not think a lot of the communities, especially the smaller ones, recognize the cost of things. Clearly, if you want arenas, all this infrastructure and the government gives it to you, it is not the same if there is a certain amount of equity from communities put into it. Tax based communities do it. We all do it in our own lives. If you want stuff, you take mortgages, you recognize there is a cost to things. With our shrinking resource base as a government, it is going to become more and more important. I will be interested to see how that shakes out of your review of the municipal financing, because it is going to become an issue. It is not really a question, Mr. Chairman, more of a comment.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

We are dealing with community development, unless the honourable Minister wants to respond. The honourable Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not have any comments on that. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I have Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I ran out of questions before, so I want to follow up on what I was asking there. I get the impression from the response from the department, they can only transfer to the communities what the other departments have transferred to them. In other words, if there is half of a PY cut in education, that is all MACA has to transfer. If the communities suggest they cannot see themselves taking on this responsibility for only half a PY, they cannot really address the concern to MACA because MACA has only transferred half a PY. In fact, the cuts are coming in the other departments, but they are being funnelled through MACA to address to the community, rather than the

department doing it straight themselves. I want to know from MACA if this is the case.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will get my DM to answer that.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

The deputy minister, Mrs. Ballantyne.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Ballantyne

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under the community transfer initiative, MACA did use it to receive some monies from other departments which would flow through MACA and then to communities. This is not happening any more. What is happening with community empowerment is the departments are entering directly into agreements with the communities. We do not get the PYs then transfer them any more. It is done directly between each department and the community. What MACA does is to facilitate those negotiations and the transfer. We co-sponsor each of these agreements when they are set up between departments and the communities go to the Financial Management Board for approval. MACA reviews them and co-sponsors them. We try to provide a facilitator service to make sure the process is done properly. The departments are transferring directly and not through MACA any more. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I cannot recall exactly what we heard from the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. He suggested some of this program money for income support was in fact going through MACA and that is why it was identified in the budget. I would like clarification on that from the Minister, if I may.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are not getting any money for income support from ECE for MACA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Mr. Chairman, could I direct that question to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I am informed the Member can ask questions of a different department for clarification. Mr. Dent.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe the Member is asking a question referring to the resources for delivery of income support in Cape Dorset, in particular. During consideration of the ECE budget, I mentioned during the community transfer initiative, resources for delivery of income support had been transferred from ECE to MACA and through a further transfer to the community of Cape Dorset. As far as I am aware, that is the only community in which the resources have been transferred from ECE to MACA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. I would like to remind all Members of the committee, we are in fact reviewing the 1997/98 main estimates of Municipal and Community Affairs. Mr. Steen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my other question is in relation to O and M funding for the communities. I believe a Member addressed the way the O and M capital funding is actually being supplied to the communities. My concern is O and M funding reduction by 5 percent to each community has a different impact on different types of communities. For instance, hamlets would only have X number of dollars for O and M funding. They have to do all their work out of that O and M funding. The SOAP communities, Supplement Operating Assistance Program communities, they do not have to. They get a lot of their services through DPW like road maintenance, stuff like that. That is all free or supplementary to the funds they receive under SOAP. I want to ask the Minister, how the department intends to address this situation?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair John Ningark

Thank you. Madam Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Manitok Thompson Aivilik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to add some information regarding an earlier question. The Cape Dorset program was done by the old CTI that is why that was done for that particular question. Regarding the other question, we are reviewing the municipal financing and this will be dealt with through the municipal financing review. Thank you.