This is page numbers 623 - 650 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was today.

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Further Return To Question 291-13(6): Private Meeting Confirmation
Question 291-13(6): Private Meeting Confirmation
Item 6: Oral Questions

December 8th, 1998

Page 633

Goo Arlooktoo Baffin South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take that question as notice. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 291-13(6): Private Meeting Confirmation
Question 291-13(6): Private Meeting Confirmation
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 633

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The question is taken as notice. Oral questions, Mr. Picco.

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier this week I think we heard something in the House concerning the economic strategy. I wonder if Mr. Todd could update us on the fiscal side of the economic strategy and the direction that it has taken. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Economic strategy update, Mr. Speaker, I will try to make it short and succinct. We have a draft report that the working committee is looking at, that is, the deputies. The Ministers will be given an opportunity to take a look at. It is a working document. It is not complete by any means. I have looked at it myself and there are, as other Ministers have told me, some loopholes in it. We intend to add to and subtract to the report as it currently sits. We hope that we can conclude in the next couple of weeks. I apologize for it taking so long, but there have been a great deal of difficulties which have occurred in the last little while that have involved some of the people. We hope to, in the next couple of weeks, get a working document put together that we can then communicate with the stakeholders out there as a working document, seek their ongoing input and eventually put in place a document that this government and future governments, hopefully, will move forward in advance.

The overriding emphasis, if you want, at least from my perspective, and I believe from my colleagues, is that there are four or five critical components to the way in which we do government. I have said on a number of occasions I really feel that perhaps economic strategy is not quite the appropriate way to describe it. Maybe it is investment north, I do not know. The four important ingredients are, as we said, in the west particularly, getting governance right and that is an important issue for the aboriginal and non-aboriginal constituency. We need a new fiscal relationship with Canada and in particular, in my opinion anyway, on the non-renewable resource side. I will be talking about that later on today and in the tax window. We need to take a look at the infrastructure needs in partnership with the federal government which includes all the Ministers, Mr. Antoine in Transportation; Mr. Dent in Education, Culture and Employment; Mr. Ng, et cetera, in his field and of course, Mr. Kakfwi, who is very active in economic programs. Our intent is to advance that agenda, at the end of the day, both north and south.

In my opinion, if I may, Mr. Speaker, there really are two audiences here. Obviously, you have an audience for domestic consumption as they say, and we need to do a self-analysis of what we are doing. I think that is a healthy thing to do. That is what we are currently doing and see if, in fact, the current programs that we are doing, we could do better. Mr. Kakfwi is working aggressively on a new economic agreement. I am optimistic, as others are, that we will be able to conclude, hopefully, soon, with the federal government, an understanding that additional dollars will flow. There have to be an examination internally if you want to know what we are doing. There has to be significant discussions with the stakeholders out there to ensure that we have a balanced point of view. Ultimately, the second audience is the federal government. That is the Minister of DIAND, Ms. Stewart. All of us are working very aggressively in that field and we need to, at some point, bring Mr. Martin into the equation so that we can get at least his tacit support on entering a new fiscal relationship in the tax window.

There is a great deal more to it than that, but in brief, in summary, as they say, I am working along with my Cabinet colleagues to move as quickly as I can to make sure the report encompasses both the large agenda, as well as a community-based one. I am optimistic that in the next two weeks, three weeks, we will be able to conclude that so that we can then get it out there to the constituency at large. Recognizing - let me be clear - that this is a working document and there has been - I freely admit - limited discussion at the stakeholder level; and we need to ensure that we find a mechanism or process to do that. I am confident we can. At the end of the day I hope that the document will be one document of many that will help guide and provide some advice to the remaining three months of this government, and more importantly, to the new government should they choose to take the document and move forward on it. Thank you.

Return To Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 634

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 634

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in this draft report that Mr. Todd is hoping to have available to stakeholders in a couple of weeks, what type of consultation was done? Mr. Todd has said, indeed, that consultation was not at the level that probably was expected at the beginning and that it was not at the level that probably the stakeholders would like to see. I am wondering what type of consultation was done to look at the new tax window for Nunavut and for resource development and, look at securing the financial health of Nunavut for our children, because at the end of the day that is what the economic strategy was developed for, for two territories and not just for one territory.

I wonder if Mr. Todd could back up a little bit in his verbiage on the discussion of the availability of this draft economic strategic plan and look at securing the financial health of Nunavut, look at the resource windows and look at the other type of tax plans for that southern marketplace for Miss Jane Stewart and take it from there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd, I heard several questions, but to you.

Further Return To Question 292-13(6): Update On Economic Strategy
Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 635

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If I may, I have an urgent call I have to make and I will try to answer my colleague's question and come back as quickly as I can. Mr. Speaker, my honourable colleague is correct. As a Nunavut MLA and Cabinet Minister, I certainly want to ensure and work very hard to bring stability to the economic conditions the east and west can provide a solid base for two new governments. You are correct. We need to move to the next step. It is our intention, certainly on the large picture side, to do exactly that. Whatever you do in a tax window or tax initiatives in the west has to be done in the east. There is no question. Mr. Martin made that clear to me and I made that clear to him in my discussions with him.

In fairness to Nunavut, we were reluctant to go too far because you have an Interim Commissioner's office, you have a new government in waiting, et cetera, and we have been trying to work as closely as we can with them. They have a working committee, I believe, of all the organizations. We are going to provide them with this working document, and as I said before, people can choose to accept or reject, or accept some of, or reject some of what we are saying, but at the end of the day, Mr. Speaker, there is no other option. Unless the federal government is prepared to continue to say, we are going to give you more money, and that is quite clear that they are not going to do that, we just got another $95 million, which I applaud their fairness, but at the end of the day, we simply must look at another way in which to generate revenues.

We have spent an inordinate amount of time over the last 20 years talking about expenditures. We need to find a new way to generate revenues which include the non-renewable resource side and in Nunavut, while it may not be as well developed right now, I am convinced it ultimately will be development. There is a significant amount of exploration going on there, particularly in the Baffin Island area, around Lake Harbour, in the Meliadine area in my riding, so whatever we put in place, and whatever recommendations we make for the future government, has to encompass all of the territories. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 292-13(6): Update On Economic Strategy
Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 635

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Supplementary To Question 292-13(6): Update On Economic Strategy
Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 635

Edward Picco Iqaluit

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at the end of the day, will this document give us what Mr. Todd talks about? Will it give us the impetus at the end of the day, Mr. Speaker, to address the revenue shortfalls that the Minister just talked about? Will that strategic document give us the tools so we can take it forward at the end of the day? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 292-13(6): Update On Economic Strategy
Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 635

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 635

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It certainly will not provide you with the blueprint for your economic salvation, but it certainly will provide you with a road map and some detail stats. If you so choose to move forward in partnership with our federal colleagues, to try to do exactly what my honourable colleague says, but if I may, Mr. Speaker, I want to remind everybody, under the new Nunavut government, 84 percent of the monies we are going to use in the budget come from the federal government.

Any dent we can make to become less dependent, is an important one. In the west there is somewhere around 70, 72 percent. We are both captives, if you want, at the benevolence of the federal government. Clearly, some have said it, Mr. Kakfwi and others have said it in Edmonton, there is clearly a need for the two new governments, this present one in its remaining three or four months, to move forward with an aggressive blueprint to try to make us less dependent. That is what the overall objective here is.

I have to say, in fairness, we also have to look at the existing programs and to look how we can manage them better. I believe we are trying to do that, how we can integrate them better and I believe that is what we are trying to do. There are some initiatives under way, like Mr. Antoine, like Mr. Dent, et cetera, that sometimes this government does not get the credit for. I am convinced that we are on the right track, not everybody will say it is perfect by any means, but we are certainly heading down the track of looking to be less dependent on the transfer payments we currently have. After all, Mr. Speaker, at the end of the day, that is the objective. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Question 292-13(6): Update On The Economic Strategy
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 635

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is addressed to the Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, the question is in relation to the issue of the tax window and the opportunity we have in the next 100 days to possibly cement an arrangement that will allow us to keep more of our tax revenues in the north. Could the Minister update us on that very critical initiative? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 293-13(6): Future Nwt Tax Revenues
Question 293-13(6): Future NWT Tax Revenues
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 635

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I did have the wonderful opportunity to spend some time with Mr. Martin during his trip north when he went to Iqaluit and to Yellowknife to sign the two new agreements and it did provide me with an inordinate amount of time with Mr. Martin and I appreciate that. During that time, I discussed with him the fiscal condition, east and west, as we move into the future. I asked him to look five years out and indicated to him, this country, east or west, does not want to continue to be a ward of the state. I said this many times. We really want you to give us some of the tools that are necessary for us to be less dependent. I am an economic realist. We are not going to be independent, at least not in the next five to ten years, but we could be less dependent.

I believe Mr. Martin, at least politically, understands the desire of northerners in this House and hopefully the two new Houses, that is a laudable objective to try to achieve and indicated to me that he was prepared to work with myself and my colleagues, along with Ms. Stewart, who has the lead ultimately in trying to accomplish that. It certainly was my intention to ask Mr. Martin for a meeting with Ms. Stewart, along with the Premier and Mr. Kakfwi. We will see what unfolds over the next two days and if the new leader wishes to continue to pursue that objective, I will be only too happy to work with him, whoever he may be, for us to get to the table with the political leaders, give us some direction, then move forward in terms of working out the details.

I am not suggesting for one minute that this is an initiative that is going to happen over night, but I am suggesting to you that both Ministers, in my discussions with them, appear to be sympathetic to the objectives that we are trying to achieve. We need to reinforce that with them and then move on to a working out with the colleagues, a table, and see if we can move forward. I am suddenly hopeful and optimistic that I can at least conclude before I leave office, an agreement that we can move forward on this important initiative. Thank you.

Return To Question 293-13(6): Future Nwt Tax Revenues
Question 293-13(6): Future NWT Tax Revenues
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 636

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Supplementary To Question 293-13(6): Future Nwt Tax Revenues
Question 293-13(6): Future NWT Tax Revenues
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 636

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister indicate whether, in fact, concrete steps have been taken in that regard, for example, issues like writing to try and arrange meetings with Minister Stewart or the Minister of Finance with the federal government or any other steps that would, in fact, show focus on this very important issue? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 293-13(6): Future Nwt Tax Revenues
Question 293-13(6): Future NWT Tax Revenues
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 636

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 293-13(6): Future Nwt Tax Revenues
Question 293-13(6): Future NWT Tax Revenues
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 636

John Todd Keewatin Central

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have spoken at length to Mr. Martin and to Ms. Stewart about the need for a meeting and that I would like to caution every Member that I am only one player in this play here. Mr. Kakfwi, Mr. Antoine, and, of course, the Premier, play a key role in this. Certainly, as I said to the earlier question, once we conclude who the new Premier will be, if he or she wishes to continue this agenda, which I am confident they will, I will move quickly to organize a meeting, if they so wish, on their behalf. To get an agreement in principle, politically, so that we could move forward on this important big-picture agenda. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 293-13(6): Future Nwt Tax Revenues
Question 293-13(6): Future NWT Tax Revenues
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 636

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Supplementary To Question 293-13(6): Future Nwt Tax Revenues
Question 293-13(6): Future NWT Tax Revenues
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 636

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Could the Minister elaborate as well maybe on the particulars of what, in fact, is envisioned when he talks about tax window. Is that moving from say 20 percent tax window to some other higher figure and what exactly does that mean in terms of the revenue we now get from the federal government? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 293-13(6): Future Nwt Tax Revenues
Question 293-13(6): Future NWT Tax Revenues
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 636

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 293-13(6): Future Nwt Tax Revenues
Question 293-13(6): Future NWT Tax Revenues
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 636

John Todd Keewatin Central

In my dying days as a Finance Minister and a politician, which I will talk later on today about, let me first of all give my predecessor, Mr. Pollard, full credit for in the early days, managed to convince Mr. Martin that there was a requirement for some kind of a tax window for the north. We have a 20 percent one right now. In simple language, the objective is yes, to increase the window. It should not really be that complicated, provided we can get a political acceptance of it and ensure that we do not get penalized because of it. This has all come about, to some extent, because of the enormous wealth and profitability on the diamond issue.

In recent months, of course, for myself anyway, speaking personally, I have really taken a hard look at what is going to happen up in Mr. Kakfwi's area and other areas on the oil and gas. The potential for new revenues, if we can get the right formula and agreement, are tremendous for the Northwest Territories. We need to make sure that this initiative, the momentum remains there so we can get the additional tax dollars that we require.

If I looked at the numbers, you asked the question, what kind of numbers are we talking about, if my memory serves me correct, and I have said it so many times I probably have come repetitive, if we move from a 20 percent to a 50 percent tax window, similar to what Mr. Tobin is talking about in Voisey Bay, I think the BHP mine alone, which would be no direct tax on BHP, let us get that clear, I will suffer the consequences of that statement, it would be somewhere in the region of $30 million or $40 million. You have another one rolling in, you have oil and gas, you have forestry, et cetera, you have enormous wealth out there that is simply untapped that we all talked about eloquently at the Meet the North conference last week in Edmonton. Thank you.