This is page numbers 773 - 799 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 794

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Mr. Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the request for proposal is a way for the department to look for new and innovative ways to do a certain project, like a request for creative ideas on how to do a certain project. We have X number of dollars to get a project done. Perhaps, we have not done it before. Perhaps, we are doing it in a small community. Request for proposal is asking for ideas from different companies to come forward with how they propose to do a certain project. Price is not the only factor. There needs to be some flexibility. There might be an occasion where a request for proposal comes forward and there needs to be some adjustments to make it work. There are some minimum changes to it after it is awarded. I would like to ask the deputy minister to add to that. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 794

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Lovely.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Lovely

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the Minister indicated, the request for proposal process is usually used when we know what we want to do, but not necessarily how we want to do it. We take into account a number of factors when we evaluate the proposals that are received, including the scheduling the proponents are coming forward with; the team skills of the people who make up the team that will do the work; the experience that they have had in doing similar work in the past; cost that is not necessarily a bottom-line cost, but can represent the going rate for the industry and a general outline of how they propose to do it.

Once that work is done, we then proceed to the tendering process, because we know exactly what the building is supposed to look like, what is supposed to be in it and what kind of material is needed. That is when it is more appropriate for us to say, give us a bottom-line dollar figure for how much it will cost to put up this building. In the front-end of the process, we are looking more for how to do it, who is involved and what is the schedule that is associated with the work. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 794

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Lovely. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The purpose of my question is, there are quite a number of people who already feel that RFPs are too subjective in the evaluation to start with. What we are hearing from the Minister and deputy minister, there is another whole level of subjective evaluation that can be applied to this, to the extent that the person or company's proposal can then be taken and further altered in terms of price. In the case of the scope of the work, it could be for more than what was in the original proposal, if what I am understanding is correct. This is a second layer or level of subjectivity, which lends to the whole argument that RFPs are not a very transparent and seemingly fair way of contracting for goods and services.

I notice the deputy minister shaking his head when I said you could change the size. Let me give you an example, or ask you, for a contract awarded on RFP, for example, on a building. If the building was going to be 1,000 square feet and ultimately, the client department decided they needed 1,200 square feet, would that be classified as fine-tuning to actually negotiate with the proponent to increase the size of the building and thus, increase the size of the contract, altering the price? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 795

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, normally, if we are going to build a building, it is a certain size. Let us say, for example, the honourable Member's example was 1,000 square feet. We would not increase the size. Most of the fine-tuning as this Legislative Assembly knows, we just have X number of dollars for a certain project. What this department tries to do by fine-tuning it, we usually try to go lower rather than higher. In many cases, the RFP, in examining a certain building, may estimate to be higher than budgeted for. What we try to do, is to try and accommodate the budget that we have. The fine-tuning is more to accommodate what we have and try to make it less rather than more. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 795

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, that answers my question with respect to a capital project, like a building. What about in the case of something like a lease? After the contract has been awarded to a proponent, would you go back to that proponent and say, actually, we needed 100 square metres more than what we told you, we will take it at that same price. How about that kind of fine-tuning? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 795

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is a difficult question to answer. It is a hypothetical question and I am told the department never encountered that kind of situation before. Usually, in the lease business, the majority of leases this government has, are done through a public tender process. Usually when that happens, leases are pretty well locked in after they are negotiated. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Your time is up, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There was an indication that current policy is meant to keep the politicians out of contract awarding. I would like to know how long this particular policy that outlines this area, been in place?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 795

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, once you go through a competitive process, it is always done through that process. There is no interference in it. There is a process which is laid out very clear. It is very transparent and once it is in process, there is no tampering with the whole process. It has to run its course. At the end of the day, through evaluation, the department does its work fairly well. We have very good people administering the public tendering process for leases. Once the process has run its course, again, they come out with the best price for the best dollar. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 795

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no doubt we have competent people looking after the contract awarding selection process. I also understand that the process is intended to have no political interference. I would like to know, when did we start this process, so that there is no political interference? Has it been in place for 20, 30, 10 years? How long has it been like that?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 795

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. To the best of your knowledge, Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, what I have been told is, this whole process has been in place for a very long time, ever since there has been a functioning executive for this Government of the Northwest Territories. Also, there is a financial administration manual which lays out this whole process of competitive bids. It is all laid out in there. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 795

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The other question I would like to know is, if other jurisdictions do their contracts in a similar manner, such as other provinces and the federal government?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Antoine.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

The competitive bid process is done here in the Northwest Territories like all the other governments in this country, and the other provinces. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 795

The Chair

The Chair Vince Steen

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Mr. Erasmus.