Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Picco.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my final question to the Minister in this area is, it looks like we have two different classifications of employees which is not correct. This, I understand, is causing morale problems within the health boards at the staffing level. Mr. Speaker, is there any contravention of the collective agreement, by doing this? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Ng.

Mr. Speaker, once again, trying to clarify for the Member. The nurses who work for the contract nursing agencies are not employees of the board. The board makes an arrangement with the company which hires the nurses. They provide services to the boards. Thank you.

Question period is over. We will break now until 1:00 p.m.

--Break

Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents.

I would like to table the report of the Auditor General of Canada on his study of Municipal and Community Affairs pertaining to municipal financing as requested by the Legislative Assembly. The report is dated February, 1998.

Tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Mr. Todd.

Bill 13: Forgiveness of Debts Act, 1997-98

Mr. Speaker. I give notice on Friday, February 20, 1998, I will move that Bill 13, Forgiveness of Debts Act, 1997-98, be read for the first time. Thank you.

Thank you. Notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Bill 6, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; Bill 8, Appropriation Act, 1998-99; Bill 11, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3, 1997-98; Committee Report 02-13(5); Committee Report 03-13(5); Committee

Report 04-13(5); Committee Report 05-13(5); Tabled Document 15-13(5) and Tabled Document 19-13(5). With Mr. Ningark in the Chair.

Thank you. I would like to call the committee to order. We have a number of items to be considered by the committee of the whole. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Ootes.

Thank you. Mr. Ootes is recommending that we deal with Bill 8 and Committee Report 02-13(5), Committee Report 03-13(5) and Committee Report 05-13(5), Justice followed by the NWT Housing Corporation. Do we agree?

Agreed.

Thank you. At this time, I would like to ask the Minister of Justice, Mr. Arlooktoo, to present his opening remarks.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The department has put these broad goals and priorities into action by ensuring that resources are reaching communities in the form of community justice committee contributions, legal aid clinic contributions and community service funding to health boards. The funding of outpost camps and the training of community by-law officers to become community constables helps to ensure that the administration of justice is more compatible with community values and traditions.

The department continues to be faced with the reality of chronic overcrowding in our correctional facilities. The expansion and maintenance of these facilities has not kept pace with the growing numbers of offenders who pass through the system, let alone, provide sufficient programs and treatment that would assist in healing offenders and enable a successful re-integration into their communities. The pressures I mention are largely due to demographics but is also due to the changing profile of inmates who increasingly are becoming more difficult to manage. These factors also impact the resource requirements of the RCMP, the legal services board and the court system. All of these traditional areas of justice delivery have reached capacity limits, while at the same time, being forced to deal with budget reductions and restraint initiatives. However, despite fiscal restraint, the department has limited the overcrowding of institutions by providing funding for programs that enable offenders to be placed in outpost camps or in community supervision instead of in a facility. Although this does not fully address the overcrowding issue, it is an example of how the department is finding innovative solutions. The department will continue to seek solutions to this growing problem.

Therefore, due to the pressures outlined above, the 1998-99 main estimates for the Department of Justice do not identify any major resource shift between program areas of the department and no reductions are proposed from the previous year's main estimates.

The recent review of the coroner's office resulted in a recommendation to contract out the position of the chief coroner as well, increase the local coroner's fees from $50 to $150 per case. I am pleased to inform Members that Mr. Percy Kinney, has been hired as the new chief coroner. Mr. Chairman, I would also like to inform Members that coroner's fees have been increased as recommended.

--Applause

This increase is very much deserved and is in recognition of the very difficult and important work that coroners do. Members will note minor changes to the department's 1998-99 resource base due to the government's initiatives in self-government and user pay/user say. That concludes my opening remarks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The Chairman of the social program which reviews the department under consideration will now make an opening remark. Mr. Enuaraq.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The committee was generally satisfied with the presentation of the 1998-99 main estimates. The Members corresponded to the business plan and capital plan already reviewed by the committee. The committee made note of the following issues during its review of the 1998-99 main estimates of the Department of Justice.

Administration costs, the committee expressed its concern that there was no way to determine the total amount spent by the department on administration. There was also concern that the cost of human resources administration has been passed on to the department resulting in no net savings to the government as a whole. If anything, the money required to support human resources personnel, would reduce funds available for client-driven program delivery. The department has agreed to supply the committee with figures related to spending on administration within the department.

The Standing Committee on Social Programs recommends this Standing Committee on Government Operations, requests that the government conduct an in-depth study as to whether any savings were lost by the dissolution of the Department of Personnel.

Justice of the Peace Program, the committee was pleased to hear that the department is allocating more resources to maintain this program. As in the case of coroners, the people who take on the responsibility of being justice of the peace in their home communities are often placed in unenviable positions between family and friends. The committee believes that as a government, we have a responsibility to support these people to the best of our ability. Of particular interest to the committee is the hiring of a justice of the peace coordinator. We need someone who can relate to the justice of the peace at the local and regional level, who can respond to the needs of the JPs and act on them. The committee looks forward to seeing a copy of the job description for the position. The committee also encourages the department to explore the possibility of expanding the use of JPs at the community level and to ensure there are JPs in each community. Committee members believe that if the JPs were willing and supplied with the right training, they could handle some family law in young offender cases, freeing up the court system.

The committee highly recommends that the person who is hired for justice of the peace coordinator be someone who has an in-depth knowledge of the north and its people.

The committee recommends that the corrections review by the department include at a minimum, the preparation of working papers on the state of corrections in each of the two new territories and addressing the issue of compliance with the federal corrections regulations to provide the new government with direction on resolving the serious issues facing corrections.

The committee recommends that the department formulate, in concert with the RCMP and the Interim Commissioner's office, a strategic plan for policing in the western territory and Nunavut.

A concern was raised that the Young Offenders Act is not being administered properly in some of the smaller communities. Young offenders are being removed from their home community to a larger centre without their parents being given opportunity to intervene. When the child appears in court, there is little opportunity, given the often-prohibitive cost of travel, for their parents to attend. The committee noted that the community, for which this is a particular concern, also does not have a justice of the peace. Committee Members feel that this issue could be more appropriately handled by a JP who has the authority to deal with young offenders in the offender's home community. It is hoped that the new justice of the peace coordinator would address this issue. The Minister had committed to looking into the concern and responding to the Member that raised the issue. The committee would appreciate being copied on all correspondence on this issue.

The committee appreciated the opportunity to review the interim legal aid report. The committee looks forward to reviewing the final report and recommendations and providing its input into the process. Although the department explained that the legal services board is an arms-length agency, the committee is of the opinion that the department, as the funding provider, bears some responsibility for the implementation of the recommendations. The committee is concerned that the lack of legal aid for family law impacts negatively on families and children. As recommended, in one of the models put forth in the interim report, the committee adds its unqualified support for the hiring of a separate legal aid lawyer to deal with family law only.

Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I would like to ask Mr. Miltenberger, my deputy to continue with the report, please.

Thank you. Mr. Miltenberger, would you carry on from where Mr. Enuaraq left off.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Thank you, Mr. Enuaraq. I would now like to determine if the Minister wishes to bring in the witnesses? Mr. Minister.

Yes, I would, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Do we have the concurrence of the committee? Agreed?