This is page numbers 57 - 80 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was tax.

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Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

September 16th, 1998

Page 64

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Public Works. It is in regard to my opening statement. The whole question about contracts and when contracts are let go. When you talk about public tenders for the construction of projects in our small communities and housing access units that need to be built. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister is, why is it that tenders and contracts for such construction of public contracts, let go so late in the season? Yet, we approve the budget, usually it is in February/March? In my riding a lot of projects were not concluded through the tendering process until August, in some cases September. Why is that?

Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Public Works and Services, Mr. Antoine.

Return To Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, unless I know the specific project the honourable Member is talking about, then I could answer him pertaining to these specific cases there may be out there. Generally speaking, the department issues tenders to the public as soon as they can, early in the year. The majority of the contracts I am aware of are done in this manner. Maybe there are some circumstances that arise throughout the summer, where projects may be awarded later on, and these are special cases. Generally speaking, the department is going out and trying to put these projects out as early in the building season as possible. Thank you.

Return To Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Using the example in regard to an access unit in Fort McPherson, where an individual was approved for the project. The individual destroyed the old units that he was in, so he could construct the new access unit on his property in June. It has basically been August when the contract was let go. It was a matter of a three month lapse from the time he presumed the construction was going to start until the time the tender was closed. We are talking about something that should have possibly started in May or June, instead occurred in August. Why was it such a long time?

Supplementary To Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine.

Further Return To Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Public Works and Services deals with different projects that are put forward from client departments. It could be Health and Social Services or RWED or Education, Culture and Employment. In the case of Housing which the access unit come under, they do their own project management themselves. In this particular case, the access housing the honourable Member is talking about, is out of the Department of Public Works hands. I believe it is under the Housing Minister. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 64

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Supplementary To Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regard to the timing of these projects. The reason I raised the question is, we also have to take into account the shipping season which NTCL usually does not take any orders after September 1. A lot of these projects being closed in the latter part of August. I will use another example, if I can, Mr. Speaker. In Aklavik where there was supposed to be a warehouse constructed, which is part of the capital budget process, it has been just in the last two weeks where the tender has been recalled for going to public tender, yet the season for getting the materials through NTCL in Hay River is no longer possible because the season for NTCL taking orders has been concluded. By using these as examples, which is why I raised the question about the seasons and when these tenders are being closed so we can construct our capital projects in our communities during the construction season. This is usually during the summer season. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Question 33-13(6): Timing For The Tendering Of Contracts
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 65

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I did not hear a question and I will remind the Members to limit their preambles in their supplementaries. Oral questions, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 65

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are in follow-up to Mr. Ootes' questions with respect to the Economic Strategy. Mr. Speaker, I think it is entirely appropriate for us to question the expenditure of public funds. I would just like to comment that it is cheap rhetoric on this side of the House to suggest that questioning the process of procurement for this contract or this service is to criticize the intent or the merit of the exercise. That is not the intent here. No one is questioning the merit of the initiative. I would also like to, Mr. Speaker, remind the Minister that he referred to this as a public tender and we have much and extensive debate in this House and tried to explain to some of the Ministers the difference between a request for proposal and a public tender. Obviously, we have not succeeded in that.

No one sets out to do something without counting the cost, so my question is, did the Minister have a cost in mind before issuing the RFP for the development of the Economic Strategies in question? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Finance, Mr. Todd.

Return To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

I do not quite understand the preamble of my honourable colleague. She makes some reference to some things I said, I do not remember saying anything that she indicated I did. Let us clear that up, first of all. Secondly, I really was looking at this economic strategy as a return on investment. What is it going to cost us to get the kind of return we want? In this strategy when we lay it out to you, and it is not quite ready yet, but when we lay it out to you, we will demonstrate, clearly demonstrate. Some people will look beyond tomorrow, but what we are building is a case for the future. What we are building is a case for more money to enable us to do the kinds of things our constituents expect us to do. Sometimes you have to spend money on the front end to ensure at the end of the day you get more money on the back end.

If my honourable colleague would be just a little patient, I think we will be able to demonstrate in the coming weeks, that the investment we are putting in on the front end, will bring us significant return on the back end, when we explain it in detail to the Caucus, to the public at large and by the way, to the groups I have been speaking to over the last three or four months. Just let me, if I may, for the moment, explain who I have been talking to. I spoke to a number of aboriginal leaders, Ms. Cournoyea, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Gaudet, Mr. Hagen, Chamber of Mines, Chamber of Commerce, City Hall, Interim Commissioner, et cetera. During the summer, when I was actively, discussing these things, we did in fact look for public input into where we were going. The net effect of what we are trying to do is get a return on investment now for future generations. Thank you.

Return To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, no one is arguing with the intent of the proposal that was called for, the information that might be garnered from that and all of the wonderful things it might bring about. We have a budgetary process. I will repeat my question, this should not even count as a question because he did not answer this. Did the Minister have a budget figure in mind when he went to RFP for this proposal call?

Supplementary To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 65

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

I had not anticipated an amount of money at the time. What I was looking for was a proposal that would bring us about the kind of ammunition or substantiation, if you want, for the overall strategy we have in relationship to our federal fiscal relationship with the federal government. I do not know the actual cost of this thing to date. I think it is somewhere in the $300,000 to $500,000 mark. I can get that from my colleague.

It is important to point out in a serious vein that the intent here is to develop the case to be able to show to the federal government we need a new fiscal relationship, to provide us some incentive to garnish more revenues, to get into the non-renewable resource tax window, to support the initiative of my honourable colleague Mr. Antoine in his desire to build roads to resources, to support my honourable colleague, Mr. Kakfwi, to get more EDA money and to support the overall objectives of this House. That is to find more money to deliver to our constituents the kind of services they have come to expect. That is what this initiative is all about. As I said, if my honourable colleague will be patient for awhile, I think we will be able to demonstrate and substantiate this money is a wise investment for the future. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. These are absolutely noble aspirations. My question is, when we go to a call for contracts. Let me back up for a bit. When we go to an RFP or tender call for contracts, there is an estimated amount. Somebody has something in mind. Public Works and Services goes to proposal call and it comes in higher, they go back and they negotiate with the person putting in the proposal, if it is less money. I am saying, I repeat my question again, did the department have any figure in mind when they went to RFP or was it wide open? Do we not have a budgetary process? Was this in the budget? How much was it budgeted at?

Supplementary To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 66

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

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John Todd Keewatin Central

This initiative came about based on previous discussions with Miss Stewart and Mr. Martin, a year or a year and a half ago. Mr. Martin said to me at the time, you balance the budget, you get two new formula agreements and we will look at a new fiscal relationship once those two issues are dealt within the Northwest Territories. That is what this is about. What I do not know today is whether or not we budgeted, how much we budgeted for that particular part of the strategy. The part that we are dealing with Mr. Bailey and Associates is only one small part of the strategy. I will get that number from my colleague and advise her accordingly. I just do not have it.

Further Return To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I assume, Mr. Speaker, the Minister would have been involved in the evaluation of the proposal, when it came in. Being involved in the evaluation of the proposal, they would have looked at the cost of proposal. It would have been compared to something. Did they think the proposal was going to come in at $50, $500, $500,000? He uses $300,000, $500,000 throwing these numbers out. Surely there was a dollar value attached to this contract? That is merely what I am trying to get at. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 66

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Todd.

Further Return To Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Question 34-13(6): Costs For The Development Of The Economic Strategies
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 66

John Todd Keewatin Central

I was not involved in the evaluation of the contracts. That is the role of the administration. This honourable colleague talked many times that you want to avoid political interference in many of the activities taking place in this House. This decision on this contract is made by the administration. I will get the figure that my honourable colleague wants and present it to her in the House if she wants. I will get it. It is not that I do not want to give it, Mr. Speaker. I do not have it.