Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there has once again been some initial work done on that particular recommendation which is an approach that has been used in other jurisdictions. We are looking at the literature in the field for one thing, but the other issue for us is that the majority of our schools are not at capacity, especially once the latest round of capital projects and renovations are complete. So, we anticipate that for some time to come, the issue of space and putting facilities to year-round use to help offset bulging or increased school enrolments is an issue that we do not have to face. The DEAs and DECs have been canvassed a bit as well. Their concern initially, of course, is the effect on other issues in terms of going year-round schooling, what that would mean to parents and families and even changing the hours of schooling as proved to be somewhat problematic. We have not finished the work, but we are looking at that. It is a relatively complex issue with a number of factors, as I have indicated, but once again, once we can complete the work we will be sharing that information with the committee. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I may just quickly quote from this very well read, previously well read committee report I will do it at regular speed just for the sake of time. A multiple term year would allow for greater flexibility for parents, school programming, and increase the use of school buildings. The committee recommended that the department explore the option of year-round schooling and multiple shorter terms for all grades and share their findings with district education authorities. Mr. Chairman, the Members raise good points. The idea of year-round schooling, I think should be looked at, and we are going to look at it.

There are issues beyond as he indicated, the need to make sure that we use our facilities to the fullest to avoid any more capital expenditures. We will do the work that I have indicated we started on. The thing with this is that we have the time to give it careful consideration and get more input and feedback and involvement from the communities that would be using this particular innovative approach if it were to go ahead. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments? Mr. Erasmus.

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, this process of grade extensions has been going on for almost 20 years. Between 1979 and 1988 they looked at the larger communities putting grade extensions in places like Fort Simpson, Clyde River, Arviat, Sanikiluaq and then phase two was between 1988 and 1998 . In June, 1991, the Legislature passed a motion of support to continue the grade extensions. In the west we have seen the high schools be expanded and developed in Rae, Fort Good Hope, Fort Providence, Aklavik, McPherson, Liard, Deline, Norman Wells, Resolution, Tulita, Wha Ti, Paulatuk, Sachs Harbour, Tsiigehtchic and Kakisa. It has been a process that has had its problems. The Members raised issues of concern over the quality of the education, the variety, the breadth of the curriculum. This is one of the issues that given the fact that this is now a 20 year process it is being looked at as part of the strategic plan, the longer term and where do we go from here and how do we improve on that.

At this juncture there are some very small communities that do not have grade extensions and we have to look at the cost and the impact of trying to do that. We do have the three residences that I mentioned earlier. We are looking at this. The Minister's forum information is being looked at. We think that it has been a wise decision, not without, as I indicated, its shortfalls but a better course of action than what was there 20 some years ago with the large residences and all the attendant difficulties and problems that have come out of that. We are going to be taking a very serious look at how we move ahead and address some of the concerns that have come up like the Members mentioned. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments? Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had a chance to make a few general comments yesterday but I have a few more that I would like to make today. Just in follow up a little bit to what I was talking about in the House today. The need for more funding in education is not something that has just sprung up here at the eleventh hour for the benefit of people in the gallery or for anyone's benefit. This is something that we have been talking about for over a year now and it is something that there have been at least two motions passed in this House already by a majority of Members. One was the reallocation of departmental surpluses which was passed on March 2, 1998, and a subsequent one which I spoke to in the House today which was passed on June 1, 1998, which was for the reinstatement of the 6 percent. Although some people may lead us to believe that this is just something that has cropped up here

at the last minute, this is in fact not true. This is something we have been talking about for some time. Hopefully we will be addressing the issue of the need for more funding but I also wanted to speak to a few other general areas.

In the area of special needs, this is an area that affects almost all the pressures that are on the classroom right now and we do not know the number of children in the NWT that require special needs programs. Mr. Chairman, the Ministers' Forum on Education recommended that a major research project be undertaken to determine the number of children with special needs and to gain a better understanding of the range of needs that are evident in NWT schools. Contingency funding should be available to ensure the results are addressed within an appropriate time frame.

Mr. Chairman, the Department of Education estimates that 35 to 40 percent of NWT students require special needs support and other sources indicate that the numbers may even be higher than this. Further to the department's estimates that only half the students that require special needs services, only half of the students who require them actually receive special services in our schools. This causes me some concern. If the majority of the students in the NWT have special needs, why would not the individuals without problems then become a group requiring special programming. If we have 40 to 50 percent of our students that are there with special needs, what is being done for the children as well who are in a classroom situation who are wanting to advance and progress and move on with the curriculum. Information supplied by the department indicates that only 8 percent of the monies given to schools is for inclusive education. It is very important that individuals with special needs be identified and helped earlier in their school years. If not, problems are compounded as I mentioned yesterday, and success in school for children with special needs is linked to early diagnosis and help.

On the area of special needs, I do have some questions for the Minister. Unless the magnitude of special needs in the NWT is determined, our present system will continue to be dysfunctional. Has or will the department make plans to implement a research project to determine the number of children with special needs and to gain a better understanding of the range of needs that are evident? I am not sure how they are going to do that without the people who have the expertise to diagnosis and identify special needs but, some way in working with the educators and with school boards, there must be some way of coming up with a more accurate evaluation of this problem. Could the Minister please speak to that?

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First I would just like to address the initial comments of this budgeting process. The Member is of course correct that this issue with education and shortfall has not just come up, just blossomed, in the last two weeks and yes, motions were passed in this House but those motions are only a minute part of the process for this budgeting and that for the last nine months we have been working on these budgets. The fiscal picture was painted for us by the previous Minister of Finance. The committees for the first time in the Western Territory were set up to deal with the budgets solely for the west and for nine months we have worked at that, and I was recently involved in as well.

As I indicated before, when you look at this report very clearly it addresses a lot of education issues and it addresses issues in every department and every facet of the government, but the reality is that at this eleventh hour there is a lot of passionate debate about the need for more money but no where has there been any suggestion that we should cancel Highway 3 and put that money into education or that or any kind of suggestion of that nature. So that, yes, there was a lot about the motion made but Cabinet had a role to play and the role of the committees is critical in this process and they made the recommendations which we are doing our best to act on but the Ordinary Members did not take it upon themselves to say anywhere that I have read in this, other than those motions, but when the hard detail work of budgets was being done that we should be looking at this priority, let us cancel transportation, let us cut back housing, let us role up block funding agreements with the municipalities, whatever. What we have come forward with is a balance, trying to meet competing needs and granted there is not enough money, everybody is recognizing that fact. I am happy the Member had brought this up because I want an opportunity to clarify that. There is a role for all the Members in this. There was a key critical role of the committees in this and this is a shared responsibility. The Cabinet has a decision making role but we have to be clear on where the input was and what it was.

The issue of the special needs project is going to be looked at. I committed yesterday to reviewing the issue of special needs, the fact that there is no definition of special needs. At this point it is very broad so 35 to 40 percent could encompass children at one end of the spectrum that have very mild special needs to the other end of the spectrum where there may be severe special needs requiring a full-time special needs assistant and everything in between. As the Member indicated, we do not have a clear sense of how that breaks out. We are going to look at that if, in fact, we want to plan properly we have to be able to define the problem and come up with some terms, common definitions that we can use. We are going to look at that very clearly and it is part of, once again, the strategic planning review plus the commitment I made in the House yesterday. It is going to be looked at. Once again we would like to avoid, as some Members have pointed out, spending any more money on studies and reviews and research so we want to be very careful and measure it but we want to respond in a timely fashion. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The area of special needs in the classroom is no doubt something that we are going to have to take a very hard look at. I understand that special needs children, if their needs are not being met, if they are not identified and evaluated, if there is no plan of education developed for them. This, in turn, can turn into behavioural problems compounded with social passing. We just will never really get a handle on it. It also has to play a role in, as one of the Members already mentioned, the issue of the stress that is placed on the teachers and our ability to retain teachers if we do not have proper resources in the classroom so they can actually do their job. Can the Minister indicate the number of trained

special needs teachers and assistants that are presently employed by the school systems of the NWT?

Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do not have that level of detail, but we will take the steps to get that. I do know, or at least I understand, that there are special needs, every divisional education council has a special needs consultant and that some training has been done, but we will commit to getting those specific numbers and I just ask the Member to clarify what she means by trained special needs teachers, just so we are clear on what we are looking for. Is it just teachers who have some training? If you could clarify that I would appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Clarification, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Yes. My question was trained special needs teachers and assistants, so I was asking for teachers who have specific training in the area of special needs and also trained special needs assistants who assist in the classroom who are not, perhaps, the primary teacher but assistants. So I was actually asking for both. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, thank you. The numbers I have for the 1999-2000, if this would assist the Member, is we are funding seven inclusive schooling consultants for a total of $530,000, program support teachers 37.5 PYS for $2.4 million, and then support assistants 59.25 for another $1.7 million. There are 604 PYs funded for magnet facilities that I talked about yesterday for dealing with special needs for $600 and some thousand and there is $374,000 in the budget for staff development. Another $356,000 in the budget for student transportation, $50,000 for student placements, and $100,000 for emergency southern placements, for a total of $6.5 million that I referenced yesterday.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Is there a possibility of making copies available to the Members so it would be easier for them to understand? Mr. Minister.

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, we would be happy to provide that information to all the Members.

General comments. Mr. Ootes.