This is page numbers 693 - 720 of the Hansard for the 13th Assembly, 7th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was aboriginal.

Topics

Members Present

Honourable Jim Antoine, Honourable Charles Dent, Mr. Erasmus, Honourable Sam Gargan, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Henry, Honourable Stephen Kakfwi, Mr. Krutko, Honourable Michael Miltenberger, Mr. Morin, Mr. Ootes, Mr. Rabesca, Honourable Floyd Roland, Honourable Vince Steen.

Oh, God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for the constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

Item 1: Prayer
Item 1: Prayer

Page 693

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Good afternoon. Orders of the day, item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Antoine.

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that negotiations have reached an important milestone with the Dogrib First Nation and Canada on the first combined land claim and self-government agreement-in-principle in the Northwest Territories.

This agreement-in-principle is historic. It represents a new chapter in the development of new governance models in the North. It also is an example of this government's support and recognition of the aboriginal inherent right to self-government.

We are committed to investing the time and resources necessary to develop new partnership arrangements with aboriginal governments. We have emphasized many times that peoples must develop respectful relationships with one another to make the North a better place to live in and to raise our children.

We know the political landscape of the North is changing dramatically, as we work to redefine our relationships. Just four short months ago, the people of Nunavut achieved their goal of a new territory. Now we continue the process of redesigning our system of governance in the Northwest Territories. This must be done with aboriginal and public governments.

Mr. Speaker, the Dogrib Agreement-in-Principle will be initialled by the three chief negotiators at the Dogrib Annual General Assembly in Gameti on August 9, 1999. By initialling this document, the negotiators are recommending the document to their respective governments for review. Just as importantly in our view, this will allow the document to be released for the information and consideration of all interested parties.

Once approved and signed by all three parties, the agreement-in-principle will set the framework for negotiating a final agreement.

Mr. Speaker, while this is an important and historic event in this process, it is important to note that several outstanding issues need to be resolved before a final agreement can be concluded. Key amongst these are issues related to the financing of self-government. We have not yet reached a resolution at the Dogrib table on self-government financing, fiscal arrangements or taxation issues. The Minister of Finance will be following up with a more detailed statement on these issues later today.

Mr. Speaker, another key issue for the Government of the Northwest Territories is the resolution of overlap issues between the Dogrib First Nation and adjacent regions.

This government continues to insist that substantial progress must be made to resolve these outstanding overlap issues before the agreement-in-principle can be signed. Therefore, I urge the Dogrib First Nation to immediately enter into discussions with aboriginal governments with overlap interests in the North Slave region to develop a process that will lead to a fair and mutually satisfactory resolution of these issues.

Mr. Speaker, getting to this important milestone at the Dogrib table has been a challenge. However, it shows that aboriginal rights negotiations in the Northwest Territories are moving forward in a positive, constructive and timely manner.

I would like to recognize the hard work and dedication shown by the three chief negotiators and their teams during this process and thank them for their valuable contributions. This government will take the opportunity after initialling to fully review the document and to work on resolving some of the outstanding issues that remain, including those that I have outlined here today.

Mr. Speaker, the Dogrib Agreement-in-Principle will become a public document after it is initialled on August 9. I encourage the Members of this House and all citizens of the Northwest Territories with an interest in this matter to take some time to review it. Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Minister's statement. Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, I would like to follow up on the Premier's statement regarding the draft Dogrib Agreement-in-Principle by providing more detail on some of the financial issues. The Dogrib AIP represents a very significant amount of work on the part of the three parties. It is a crucial and historic

step for the Dogrib First Nation in realizing their aspirations.

The AIP reflects the successful conclusion of negotiations on most issues. However, negotiations on self-government financing, fiscal arrangements and taxation issues have not yet been finalized. The three parties have agreed to complete these negotiations during the final agreement phase.

Mr. Speaker, in order to clarify the GNWT's position and to provide an opportunity for public discussion, I will table today a document called Financing the Implementation of Self-Government - GNWT Principles. This document explains in some detail the proposed approach of the GNWT when negotiating fiscal arrangements with the Dogrib First Nation and Canada. These principles represent the position of this government and reflect our continued commitment to negotiate self-government agreements that are practical, affordable and which will ensure that all governments have the financial capacity to exercise their powers and meet their residents' needs.

The first and most important issue is to determine the costs to implement self-government and who will pay those costs.

There will be additional one-time and ongoing costs to establish self-government institutions and service delivery structures. The cost to implement self-government is a fiduciary responsibility of the federal government. Further, the GNWT maintains that, given our limited fiscal resources, we do not have the ability to pay for incremental costs, without compromising our ability to continue to provide the same level of programs and services to territorial residents. For both these reasons, the GNWT's position is that Canada is responsible for funding incremental costs.

The second issue is whether money would flow to the Dogrib First Nation government through the GNWT or directly from Canada. The position of the GNWT is that it will act as the funding agent where programs and services are delivered by governments or institutions that represent and serve all residents.

In areas where a First Nations government exercises its exclusive jurisdiction over its citizens or its land, the GNWT's position is that funding should flow directly from Canada. The GNWT would, in both cases, contribute its share of current expenditures on relevant programs and services.

Third, Mr. Speaker, with respect to taxation, the parties will strive to reach agreement on the extent of the taxation powers of the Dogrib First Nation government. A taxation agreement will be negotiated prior to concluding the final agreement.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to applaud the commitment and excellent efforts of the negotiating teams and acknowledge the extensive amount of work to date.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Ministers' statements. Mr. Roland.

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform the Members of the Legislative Assembly that the Minister's Forum on Health and Social Services has begun its work. The forum will focus on ways to sustain and improve the health and social services system in the NWT.

MLAs and other stakeholders in the health and social services system nominated forum members. The nine forum members are:

- Ms. Glenna Hansen, co-hair, Inuvik;

- Mr. Duncan MacNeill, co-chair, Hay River;

- Ms. Rita Cli, Fort Simpson;

- Mr. Don Blaquiere, Fort Smith;

- Dr. Ross Wheeler, Yellowknife, who represents the NWT Medical Association;

- Ms. Dee McCallum, Yellowknife, who represents the NWT Registered Nurses Association;

- Ms. Gina Dolphus, Deline;

- Ms. Hazel Nerysoo, Fort McPherson; and

- Mr. Blair Dunbar, Yellowknife, who represents the NWT Social Workers Association.

All forum members have been involved in the delivery of health and social services in the North. In selecting the members, I tried to achieve a balanced panel. It was difficult to choose from among the many well qualified Northerners nominated to the forum.

The forum members met in Yellowknife July 13-16 for a thorough orientation to the health and social services system and to develop their consultation schedule and work plan. Consultations will take place with the public, professional associations, aboriginal organizations, communities, health and social services boards and other stakeholders.

The purpose of the forum is to recommend ways to improve and sustain the health and social services system. I have asked them to focus on four areas including:

-Leadership and governance of the system;

-Human resources;

-Financial sustainability; and

-Program and service delivery.

Community meetings will be held from August 31 to September 9. Information on meeting times and locations will be advertised in early August.

Northerners who cannot attend a community meeting will be able to make written submissions. Advertisements calling for written submissions will soon appear in community newspapers. A toll-free phone number will also be set up to allow people to call in and give their comments.

Forum members will participate in a territorial health and wellness conference planned for October. At this time they will present an interim report on the results of their community meetings. The forum will then prepare a final report and submit their recommendations for sustaining and improving the health and social services system. I expect to receive their final report in early December.

As Members of this House know, our health and social services system is facing significant challenges. We need to act now to ensure that we have a sustainable and efficient system. I am confident that the forum will provide appropriate and affordable recommendations to ensure that our system continues to provide quality care and remains sustainable in the long term. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Steen.

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to announce that on May 30th and June 1st the Aboriginal Sport Circle of the Western Arctic held its first annual general meeting in Dettah, Northwest Territories. Aboriginal recreation leaders and volunteers from the Inuvik, Sahtu, Deh Cho, North Slave and the South Slave regions attended this gathering. The purpose of this meeting was to select a board of directors and to set the course for this newly formed organization for the new year.

Mr. Speaker, the Aboriginal Sport Circle of the Western Arctic has been established to work with other partners to promote and enhance community wellness and cultural awareness through sport and recreation. The Aboriginal Sport Circle is working in partnership with Sport North and Municipal and Community Affairs to encourage aboriginal youth in the Northwest Territories to participate in the sport, recreation and cultural activities to live healthy, productive and spiritual lifestyles.

Mr. Speaker, the Aboriginal Sport Circle desires to make a difference by working together with communities, Sport North, territorial sport organizations and our department to increase participation of aboriginal youth in sport at the community, territorial and national levels. The Aboriginal Sport Circle of the Western Arctic was created to enhance the current sport and recreation system's ability to respond to the needs for accessible, equitable, and affordable sport, recreation and cultural opportunities in smaller communities. These activities continue to play an essential role in enhancing individual lifestyles and in addressing issues such as alcohol, substance abuse and unemployment.

The Aboriginal Sport Circle will also serve as a facilitation body whereby the communities of the Western Arctic work together in partnership to increase participation of aboriginal youth in a variety of sports at all levels. The Aboriginal Sport Circle will work with Sport North, territorial sport organizations and the department to develop athletes and coaches for regional, territorial and national level competitions.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs supports the Aboriginal Sport Circle of the Western Arctic working in partnership with Sport North and its member territorial sport organizations. This will ensure that all residents of the NWT have access to sport and recreation opportunities while avoiding unnecessary duplication of administration or services. This will also allow for the development of a better sport and recreation system while working within the existing resources available. It will also allow the organization to provide some focus on addressing unique issues facing sport development in the smaller predominantly aboriginal NWT communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment produced its current strategic plan in 1994. This plan has provided the vision and direction for the department's work over the past six years. In December, 1998, the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment announced a review of the plan. The purpose of this review was to update the strategic plan based on the changes that have occurred in the Northwest Territories and our vision as a new territory. As part of that process, the Minister's Forum on Education was appointed to hear the views of NWT residents on what is working and what could be improved in the education system. The forum undertook a very broad consultation process across the NWT, visiting eleven communities and receiving a number of written submissions.

Mr. Speaker, in April this year, I tabled the report of the Minister's Forum on Education in the Assembly. The report outlined both the strengths of the current system and the areas where people would like to see improvement. While the forum results are intended to be part of the longer term strategic plan update, there were a number of issues raised in the report where more immediate and short-term action was possible. We decided it was important to provide a swift response to the forum recommendations, highlighting what could be done right away. During a meeting in May, DEC and DEA chairs also expressed their support for taking quick action, where possible, on the forum recommendations.

Later today, I will be tabling our response to the nine areas of concern identified by the forum. The response speaks mainly to the actions that the department will undertake. However, these actions will also be supported by the Divisional Education Councils and District Education Authorities through other activity at the regional and school levels.

Without question, Mr. Speaker, some of the forum recommendations will need additional resources if they are to be fully implemented. As we look at future years' budgets, these needs will be reflected in our decisions as a department. However, in the meantime, staff have identified a number of actions which will have a positive impact on the areas of concern. The response speaks to those actions. The feedback from the Minister's forum and this response will be included in the longer term strategic plan update, which will be completed by September. The actions I am putting forward today are consistent with the overall direction and vision for the department over the next five to ten years.

Mr. Speaker, we believe that this response demonstrates our commitment to seriously addressing the forum's recommendations. The actions are positive and realistic within our current resources and will contribute to the continuing process of our education system. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Ministers' statements. Members' statements. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to as concisely as possible recount the events and ironic contradictions which have led to the debate which has taken place in the House this week surrounding the government's decision to construct a collocated adult and male young offenders facility in Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, I am obviously most familiar and most concerned with the young offenders facility component of this project. For a number of years Hay River was the home of a triple designated young offenders facility accommodating open custody, secure custody, and remand-detained youth. The structure was originally built as a receiving home for children. After being taken over as a young offenders facility, structural deficiencies under the fire and building codes were addressed to satisfy requirements on an ongoing basis, with the understanding that complete replacement would be required at some point in the future. The replacement of the facility was indicated in the five year capital plan.

Then along came the concept of Public/Private Partnerships, or P3. MLAs were canvassed to find out if there were projects in their ridings which might be adapted to P3 projects, thus alleviating pressure on the government's dwindling capital budget and involving private sector investment and generating much needed economic activity to diminish the negative impact that this diminished activity was having on our construction sector. After a brief scan of potential interest in my community for converting this projected capital replacement project to a Public/Private Partnership, I wrote to the Minister of Justice identifying this project. A list of 27 other projects was provided to Government Operations after departments provided input as to projected cost and level of priority of these facilities to their operations. On the list of 27 projects it clearly stated, replacement of young offenders facility Hay River, $10 million, high priority. After narrowing the list of projects in consultation with Government Operations, the Hay River young offenders facility was still on the short list of 12 projects.

It was not until the then Finance Minister, John Todd, issued a press release listing the P3 projects that Hay River's name was missing beside replacement of young offenders facility. When I questioned the Finance Minister in the House, he was evasive, but in private he assured me that he was pushing hard for Hay River but was meeting with resistance. Mr. Speaker, I would like to seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Hay River is seeking unanimous consent to conclude her statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mrs. Groenewegen, you have unanimous consent.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, colleagues. Moving this project from a GNWT capital project to a P3 eliminated the requirement for usual consultation and review by the Standing Committee on Social Programs. Then even P3 protocol was breached when I came to learn that the P3 was in fact being split and going to Inuvik and to Yellowknife for a new young offenders facility. I found this out through a press release issued by then Minister Goo Arlooktoo when I walked by the Member's fax machine and happened to see a press release laying on it. I was assured by the Deputy Minster of Justice that the decision was a result of a report called the McCready report, which provided several options for meeting the future needs for young offenders facilities and programming. But a nagging doubt persisted, based on the Mr. Todd's opinion that this decision had been based on politics. If the decision had truly been made in the best interests of our youth, how could I reasonably argue with it? But was it political?

For this reason, shortly after the departure of the Nunavut Cabinet Ministers, I wrote to Mr. Kakfwi, the new Minister of Justice, asking him to revisit this decision so that I could be assured the decision was made for sound reasons and not as a result of any political attentions which might have existed at the time. I received a response from Mr. Kakfwi, and since Mr. Kakfwi was and is a Minister I have a great deal of respect for and confidence in, I again laid aside the issue of the young offenders facility, somewhat more confident that I had enough information to satisfy my own concerns and any concerns that might still linger for my constituents. Then came this week and the revelation that with no consultation with the Standing Committee on Social Programs, the location, method of delivery, and scope of this facility has again changed. To me, this reinforces the need to re-examine the whole issue and assessment of all factors affecting this project. The best decision must be evaluated on the basis of many factors, some of which include cost, available services in the community, and the fair distribution of government infrastructure.

Mr. Speaker, sometimes I wonder if this Cabinet thinks that capital budget means money to be spent in the capital, Yellowknife.

--Applause

Mr. Speaker, I appeal to the Minister of Justice, in the name of justice and fairness and in view of the many ironies, contradictions, and deviations from normal process, not to change his mind as to where this facility should be located but to go back to the drawing board and put in place proper consultation with the appropriate committees, and put in place a process whereby communities such as the one that I represent could have a fair and level opportunity to prepare a proposal and make presentation to him and his department for the proper, careful, and comprehensive consideration of this very important decision, because I know that we could make compelling arguments just given the opportunity. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Morin.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier in this same session, last winter, once Justice de Weerdt's decision had become public knowledge and after a motion passed in this Legislative Assembly urging the government to appeal that decision, the Premier, speaking on behalf of the government stood in this Legislative Assembly and said he would not appeal because of the advice that he received from this government.

At that time, the government said they were looking for political solutions. I said at that time that this government abandoned the aboriginal governments of the western Arctic and I feel more strongly about that today, Mr. Speaker, that this government abandoned the aboriginal governments of the western Arctic.

Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, July 28, 1999, July 28, 1999, is a dark day in the history of the 13th Legislative Assembly because now what this government has chosen to do is abandon the rest of the people of the Northwest Territories. Why do they choose to do that? Because they choose not to take action. They choose to pass the buck to the 14th Legislative Assembly, the next Legislative Assembly. There was plenty of time left in our mandate, Mr. Speaker, to carry out a constitutional commission for this Assembly to develop it and carry it out. What does the government choose to do? The government chooses to do nothing. Why are they here? To do nothing, to do nothing for the people of the western Arctic. That was the last hope that you could deal with it on the same level as Bill 15 is being dealt with. Bill 15 will be considered in this House, that should be considered in this House as well. It is an equal level playing field.

Mr. Speaker, walking into this Assembly today I had the opportunity, right out these doors, to talk to a member of the Aboriginal Summit, the Premier was there as well. What is the clear message from the Aboriginal Summit? They want this government to adopt the recommendations that our committee put forward. They want this government to do something. They will not live on borrowed time or broken promises or hollow promises.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Tu Nedhe is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Morin, you have unanimous consent to conclude your statement.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Aboriginal Summit have made it very clear to this government through the Premier that they want an electoral boundaries and reform constitutional committee formed so something can happen. We cannot go round any longer promising people that you are going to do something in the next Assembly. You have the ability to do it now. Mr. Speaker, I quote from Hansard on March 24, 1999, the government, the Premier, on behalf of the government.

First it gives us an opportunity to find a solution to this issue. It is not the intention of the government to try to ram this legislation through even if we could. We know there is no consensus at this time to resolve the major constitutional issues. Taking the time to build this consensus is important. We do not have consensus with our aboriginal leaders or with our communities leaders. In our view, building of the understanding of the issue and reaching a political resolution is critical.

Reaching a political resolution is critical. We have given you that opportunity. You still have today and tomorrow to reconsider your point of view, to reconsider the stand that this government took yesterday in this Legislative Assembly, passing the buck to the 14th Legislative Assembly. I ask you on behalf of all the people in the western Arctic, try to keep the western Arctic together, be a leader, be leaders, that is what you are there for, all six of you. Stand up and form a reform commission that will look at the constitution for the western Arctic and give everybody a fair government, not just the capital city of Yellowknife. Thank you.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have heard a lot of statements in this House about resource agreements being made between the Alberta government, this government and TransCanada Pipelines. We have heard agreements made with the mining companies in regard to accessing diamonds and also accessing lands within the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, I think there is one group that this government does not seem to be making any progress on in making agreements with and that is the First Nations people of this territory.

I am talking, Mr. Speaker, on the Northern Accord process, which was signed off by this government and the federal Government of Canada to negotiate the Northern Accord Agreement to transfer oil and gas mineral authority to the Government of the Northwest Territories. As part of that arrangement it was clear that they had to negotiate agreements with First Nation governments of the Northwest Territories. Here today we are seeing the government signing agreements with other jurisdictions in Canada. We are giving them access to our resources. Pipeline companies are coming up and building our pipelines, but there is nothing in place to protect the First Nations people of the land. There is nothing in there to protect the environment in regard to that protection. Ensuring that the aboriginal people when impacted will be compensated for harvesting. Also in regard to maintaining the impact that will be affected to these communities with regard to alcohol and drugs that will flow into these communities because of these developments. Mr. Speaker, we can go around telling the industry, the mining companies, Diavik, and all these other companies that who is in control here is the Government of the Northwest Territories. Yet the Government of the Northwest Territories does not own any land or have any jurisdiction on land outside the municipalities.

Until the transfer of the Northern Accord Agreement if finalized, no resource development should take place in the Northwest Territories. Until this government sits down with the Aboriginal First Nation governments and negotiates a Northern Accord Agreement and spells out exactly how those agreements are going to impact on development and how the aboriginal people will benefit from it, we should not be signing any agreements with any jurisdictions in Canada giving them the authority to our resources. The First Nation governments do not have the ability to generate revenues, or have a say on how they are going to benefit these programs. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Mackenzie Delta is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Krutko, you have unanimous consent to conclude your statement.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. In regard to how these agreements are going to be finalized we have to establish a table to sit down and negotiate with Aboriginal First Nations. The Inuvialuit and the Gwich'in are the regions I represent. They are in the process of negotiating a self-government agreement. They want to know exactly how are they going to have access to the resources in their jurisdictions, in the Beaufort Delta, so that we know that we will be able to arrive at some financial arrangement between the First Nation People, the developers and also know that we will be able to use some of those resources for our self-government programs and services. I think it is essential that this government, on one hand they can say they are showing that aboriginal rights are being negotiated, and they are also saying that the Government of the Northwest Territories is moving forward on the position of these negotiations and also concluding these agreements.

The Inuvialuit signed their agreement in 1984 to establish the Inuvialuit Final Agreement, 1984, that is 25 years ago, excuse me, that is 15 years ago. In regard to the Gwich'in they signed their agreement off in April 22, 1992. That is seven years ago. Now you have the Dogrib coming forth with an agreement-in-principle. These land claim agreements are constitutionally protected agreements. They are there to ensure that the people know that these rights are there for the First Nation people. This government refuses to conclude commitments that they have made in these land claim agreements and the government is going off negotiating agreements with other jurisdictions in Canada without concluding its obligations to the Aboriginal First Nation people of this land.

I find it pretty sad. On the one hand we are saying we are working in partnership with the aboriginal people, but not living up to the commitments that we make to these First Nations People. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Members' statements. Mr. Erasmus.

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday we discussed Bill 15 and our recommendations in this House. Today I had the opportunity to speak to a person who watched those deliberations on television. That person lives in Yellowknife and has done so for a long time. What he had indicated to me is, what do you think it will take to get across to Cabinet the fears of the people, do you have to hit them over the head with a hammer?

Mr. Speaker, I do not know, but it is obvious that this Cabinet did not read our report. It is obvious that the Ministers present at the community hearings did not listen to their constituents' presentations. We must have sat there like the proverbial wooden Indian, because they did not hear a word. They did not hear the constituents saying we are afraid of the next Assembly, we are afraid of the next Assembly. Put these things in place to protect us. What is this government doing to allay those fears. What are they doing to the words of the Premier on March 24th? Nothing. They are telling their constituents, trust the next Assembly. We will not put one concrete thing in place, but do not worry, we will make recommendations to the next Assembly. We know they will listen.

Mr. Speaker, I do not know what it will take to lead our colleagues out of the wilderness, but I implore this Cabinet, do not close your minds. Those of you who still live in your constituencies, consult with your constituents. Consult with the Aboriginal Summit about our recommendations, and maybe, just maybe in September, we will greet you as come stumbling out of the wilderness. Thank you.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Member's statement. Mr. Rabesca.

Member's Statement 197-13(7): First Aboriginal Youth Conference
Item 3: Members' Statements

July 28th, 1999

Page 698

James Rabesca North Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this past Sunday, I was privileged to attend the opening ceremony of the first Aboriginal International Youth Conference which was being held in Rae-Edzo. Myself, the mayor, and the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories presented comments to the delegation of approximately 60 youth from across Canada and the Philippines. The focus of the conference was to bring youth together in a forum to discuss the common concerns that youth face today. I see this as an excellent forum that I am sure this is providing some direction to these participants to return to their home communities and hopefully start implementing them.

The youth of today face many different challenges than we did when we were growing up. It is very difficult for the youth to retain their language and culture, as a result they are lost between their culture and that of the non-aboriginal population. They also find it frustrating because few will listen to them. In all communities, we hear the youth are bored, there is nothing for them to do. How can the youth balance their heritage and tradition with that of this modern world?

Over the week-long conference, many discussions and workshops took place with a list of concerns and recommendations that would be presented to the community leaders which I hope will include this government. It is important that we hear what their concerns are, how we can help them develop and prosper. The youth need your support for they are our future leaders. Today, youth need to be strong like two people, retain their culture and language but also able to adapt to this modern lifestyle. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Member's statement. Mr. Ootes.

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My comments today are on the transfer of federal positions to the North which we are still awaiting word on when a decision will be made, how many, if any, positions from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development may be moved North. For the last three years, the government has been pursuing this, and I have been asking questions and making statements on this quest arguing that the North will be better served if those people were to live here in the North.

Several studies have been completed to address this matter, Mr. Speaker, and I was on the understanding that Indian Affairs Minister Jane Stewart was to make an announcement on this matter several weeks ago. All sorts of studies can be done, but the reality is that DIAND staffers cannot effectively carry out their duties half a continent away. When we see how they fooled around with the diamond issue, the value-added industry, if it had not have been for this government, these Members, the communities, and members of the public here in the Northwest Territories, with the support from our communities, Canada would have lost a whole industry. Mr. Speaker, it is time that DIAND got on with the job of addressing the issue of transferring those positions North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Member's statements. Mr. Steen.

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, just over a year ago, I reported to this House on a fatal accident in the community of Tuktoyaktuk. On May 29, 1998, 14-year-old Darryl James Gruben and two-year-old brother Patrick were returning from a hunting trip with their father. Their snowmobile went through the ice in Tuktoyaktuk Harbour. Darryl Gruben managed to hold his little brother's head above water until help arrived. Tragically, Darryl did not survive the freezing water.

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to report today that Darryl Gruben has been awarded one of this country's highest honours for bravery. I have been informed by Rideau Hall that the Governor General, His Excellency, the Right Honourable Romeo LeBlanc, has awarded Darryl the Medal of Bravery. The Medal of Bravery is given only for acts of bravery in hazardous circumstances. Very few people are ever considered for this honour, and so it is a testament to Darryl Gruben's courage and the strength of his character that he has been awarded this medal. A ceremony to present Darryl's family with this award will be announced soon. I hope that today other Members of this House will join me in remembering this brave young man. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Member's statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Steen.

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to a question asked by Mr. Erasmus on July 26, 1999, in regard to seniors' municipal tax obligations.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is continuing to work on the issues related to senior citizens' and disabled persons' property tax relief raised in this House. Next week, I will forward to the Member from Yellowknife North a letter previously sent to the NWT Association of Municipalities describing the department's proposal on co-ownership.

The department has consulted with the NWT Association of Municipalities and the tax-based communities on changes to the program. Tax-based municipalities have the authority to make changes to their tax programs to implement a means test through their municipal by-law making power. The broad application of a means test is difficult, as there is not always a clear link between property value and household income. The department will continue to look for a suitable means test. The municipalities are willing to support changes to the program, but are not readily willing to absorb any additional costs. The department will continue to gather information and carefully consider other models for the program.

Members were also concerned about simplifying the application process. I am committed to continue to work with the Minister of Finance to see what can be streamlined. The department is also working with the Social Envelope Committee to examine the implications of harmonizing seniors' programs and the effect it would have on the property tax rebate for seniors. Some of the issues with this approach are; establishing a common age for seniors among all departments, developing a more simplified and coordinated process for accessing these programs and, whether to operate the programs as a rebate or as a subsidy.

Mr. Speaker, I have asked the department to report back to me by the end of September with their recommendations based on costing analysis, and estimates of benefits. I expect to include recommendations for change in the upcoming business plan for the department. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the Gallery. Mr. Roland.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
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Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize Mrs. Glenna Hansen, co-chair of the forum, as well as Mr. Duncan MacNeil, co-chair of the health forum.

--Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Recognition of visitors in the Gallery. Mr. Krutko.

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to recognize Glenna Hansen of Aklavik. That is where she is originally from. That is my constituency. I would like to welcome Glenna to the House. Enjoy your visit.

--Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Recognition of visitors in the Gallery. Mrs. Groenewegen.

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize my constituent, Mr. Duncan MacNeil, who is a co-chair on the Minister's Forum on Health. If we had to have a forum, we could not have had better co-chairs. Mr. MacNeil is a former chair of the Community Health Board in Hay River. He has been involved in many activities locally and is a very competent candidate for this position. Thank you.

--Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Recognition of visitors in the Gallery. Mr. Henry.

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Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me please to recognize three gentlemen from Burlington, Ontario, presently working in Yellowknife, Mr. Michael Lieber, Steven Dzivy, and Adam Korber. Hopefully we will convince them maybe to move North and live in the great constituency of Yellowknife South. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

--Applause

Item 5: Recognition Of Visitors In The Gallery
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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Recognition of visitors in the Gallery. I would like to recognize the rest of the people that have not been recognized. Perhaps it is the cold weather out there. Maybe it is your reluctance not to drive back south, but welcome to the Assembly. Item 6, oral questions. Mr. Morin.

--Applause

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am going to quote something here.

Mr. Speaker, we, as elected representatives, have a responsibility to find a solution to this very difficult, diverse issue. I appeal to you, my honourable colleagues and to all parties in this debate, to reach out for a solution that will bring us together, reach out for a solution that will bring us together.

That is a quote from Hansard, March 24, 1999, by the Premier of the Government of the Northwest Territories. He goes on to say;

"My Cabinet colleagues and I are committed to using the time to work with aboriginal and community leaders to find a solution that can be supported in the west. In our view, building understanding of the issue and reaching a political resolution is critical if we are to move beyond this issue as a unified new territory."

Speaking to the Western Boundaries issue. That is what this government said on March 24, 1999. Our committee went out and tried to work not only with this government but the people in the western Arctic to come up with a political solution. I had the opportunity today, Mr. Speaker, to stand outside this Legislative Assembly with one of the leaders of the Aboriginal Summit while he spoke to the Premier of the Government of the Northwest Territories. What I would like to know now, Mr. Speaker, is what is the Government of the Northwest Territories going to do with the Aboriginal Summit's request, and what was that request to your government? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

I would like to ask the Member for Tu Nedhe to try and clarify his question because I have not heard him make any reference to Bill 15, but that is what is in front of the committee. If it is making reference relating to that, you cannot ask it in question period. So I would like to ask the Member to clarify his question.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is the reason I did not say Bill 15. I asked the Premier if he met with the leader of the Aboriginal Summit right outside of this building today. That leader, on behalf of the Aboriginal Summit, that is in full support of his request, requested the Premier, on behalf of the government to do something. What I would like to know is if he will consider it and what the request was? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Premier, I have heard two questions.

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Item 6: Oral Questions

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, shortly before this session coming to the building, I ran into Mr. Gary Bohnet. He is the president of the Metis Nation. He is one of the co-chairs of the Aboriginal Summit. He did indicate to me that he got off a conference call with the Aboriginal Summit but not including Bill Erasmus, who is the co-chair, so I would not really call him the leader of the Aboriginal Summit. He did say to me that the other bare minimum that the Aboriginal Summit that he had on the conference call would accept from this Cabinet is that we, the Cabinet, accept the recommendations that we have been debating yesterday in this House in committee of the whole. That is the bare minimum. He did make reference to Bill 15, I believe. I tried to keep it out of there, but the debate in the House was recommendation. This is what he told me very briefly before coming in the House.

I did talk very briefly to my colleagues in the hallway coming into the House about it. It is not the adequate time for us to really grasp what the message was. We take very seriously these different requests that come from a representative of the Aboriginal Summit, and we have to take that into consideration. But we in this House, we in this government, we are considering his request, and he is going to have to give us some time to do that. Thank you.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I would like to caution the Ministers too about responding to the bill that is in committee of the whole. Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Morin.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On quoting out of Hansard, March 24, 1999, Minister's statements, that statement on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories, the Premier then says, "We as elected representatives, have a responsibility, we have a responsibility to find a solution to this very difficult, diverse issue." Does the Premier and his government, do you still have a responsibility? Is this statement still true today?

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. I am going to rule the question out of order because we all know, in this House, what the question is about. It is a matter that is in front of the committee. Oral questions. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister responsible for the Department of Justice. Mr. Speaker, I made a Member's statement today, and I have been asking questions in the House. I want to make it clear from the outset that I have no particular axe to grind with Mr. Kakfwi or any of the Cabinet Ministers, for that matter. I do recognize that Mr. Kakfwi was not the Minister of Justice when the original decision was made regarding the location of the young offenders facility. I wanted to preface my questions with that so that there is no confusion about that. Yesterday, in response to a question in the House, Mr. Kakfwi answered for me. He stated, and I quote from unedited Hansard, "I know that there is no time to ask and consult MLAs and communities about where else we could possibly locate this one facility," (referring to the young offenders) "let alone two facilities." My question, Mr. Speaker, is why can we not take the time to revisit and consult communities and MLAs on this decision? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Justice, Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday I tried, in a very gentlemanly way, to point out that the Cabinet, under Premier Morin last year, made a decision to locate a young offenders male facility here in Yellowknife. There were, as I recall, no provisions made for consultation with MLAs or the public.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Morin, your point of order.

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, for the last few days, I continue to hear the rhetoric out of this Minister referring to previous decisions made by myself as the Premier. I ask you to rule on that because he is talking about previous positions I had. He also mentions and leads the public to believe that he never sat on the same Cabinet. Now, I know he used to hide behind me in my decisions, but he is standing on his own two feet, and he has to get out there one of these days and do that. He should take possession of his decisions, Mr. Speaker. But also I would appreciate it if he quits referring to what I did previously.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. What is your point of order?

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just made it.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

I would like to ask the Members to refrain from making reference to Members that have served, whether they are Ministers or not, that no longer are in those positions and even those that were in those positions that cannot defend themselves in this Chamber now, that we should not allow references regarding decisions that were made. Just as we do not make references to the past Assemblies as to what happened during the 12th Assembly is not allowed in this House. I do not think, it is fair to other Members when they are no longer in the position they cannot defend themselves. It is unfair to them, and it is not appropriate. I would like to ask the Members that they refrain from what happened in the past if those Members cannot defend themselves.

The Minister of Justice is not in this House, the previous minister, to defend himself on any of the decisions that were made too. It is not fair. It is in-appropriate. I would appreciate the Members if they would respect each other by being more courteous in the way they ask questions, as well as in the way they respond. Thank you. Just a reminder to the Members, Mr. Morin does not have a point of order. Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you for allowing me to wrap up the first part of my response. The point I was trying to make is that decisions to locate and to carry out certain work, one of which is a $30 million capital commitment, was made over a year ago by Cabinet. I was

trying to spread out the credit.

--Applause

But, if that is not to be the case, that is fine. But Cabinet takes responsibility for the decision that was made at that time. There was no explicit call, at that time, to have wide-ranging consultation about where those facilities would be located or whether or not the $30 million renovation to the adult facility located here in Yellowknife should be considered as a possible total replacement project. No, the Cabinet just decided yes, to locate the young male offenders facility here in Yellowknife, no consultation, no discussion. The same with the $30 million renovation to the adult facility. So the decisions were made last year.

The Member is asking is there any consultation available now. The decisions were made over a year ago. That is the point I was trying to make. I would like to get some credit for saying that, as a Minister who was assigned to this portfolio in April, I did take the time, at the request of certain Members, to review the decisions that were made to see if there were any arguments that could be made to revisit these issues. I have decided, as interested as I was, that it is not in the interest of the public, this government, the inmates or the people that we have commitments to, to revisit the issues at this time. I do not believe we have the time to consult and to put these projects back on the table. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is, I understand that the decision was made previously but now many things about this project have changed. The method of delivery, the scope of the project and the location of the project. All of these things have changed now so forget about the previous Cabinet, I am asking this Minister now, is it within his ability, within his power to revisit this subject now? Because I think the whole thing has been reopened. I think the whole thing could be re-examined now and there could be viable and compelling arguments out there if the department could hear from MLAs and could hear from communities. I do not think it does the project justice to proceed now we have an opening to have that. Is it within the Minister's authority to revisit this subject? He? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there has been an undertaking on my part as a Minister to review the basis on which these previous decisions were made. To find our for myself whether or not these decisions were in fact decisions that were sound and should be continued to be supported by me, and whether there were any probable or reasonable grounds on which to go back to Cabinet to ask Cabinet to reconsider. Not only these two projects, but in fact also a number of other capital projects. I have decided that there would be no particular good that would come of me revisiting and reopening this whole issue that has seen extensive work and resources put to advance it to this stage. So, it is my view, and I asked Cabinet if they still stand behind the decision and Cabinet has indicated they stand behind the decisions made by Cabinet and FMB last year. That is where we are now, we are ready to proceed with the decisions that have been made and we look forward to discussing some changes to the financial aspects of the proceedings. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do thank the Minister for his answer, however it is not the answer to my question. My question is, is it within his power, his authority as a Minister of Justice to now conduct consultation and revisit this? He said he has looked at some of the arguments that were made for the decision that was previously made and he concurs with them. But how could he know whether or not they were sound decisions and based on sound information not knowing what other communities may have to offer?

For example, Hay River did not have the opportunity to put forward a proposal of what we could offer in our community. Yesterday the subject came up of services. Hay River has a wonderful hospital. We have a full complement of RCMP detachment. We have counselling services. We have a courthouse. We have many facilities that could complement the establishment of this facility in Hay River. Without that information in hand, I do not know how the Minister could possibly make a comprehensive judgement on this subject, but my question is again, does he have the authority and power to revisit it given the substantive changes in the project recently without consultation? Thank you.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is going to be a very short response. I do not have the authority to undo a decision of Cabinet, to undermine a decision of Cabinet on my own. I cannot go out and consult and set up a process to undo a decision of Cabinet without expressed approval of Cabinet. I do not have that authority to do that. Thank you.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

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Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, perhaps then if the Minister does not have that authority, he might provide me with some advice or some guidance as to how

we could revisit this because the argument that was made for Cabinet deciding to replace the YCC where it is because it was a replacement. You could apply that same argument to Hay River. The young offenders facility capital project was a replacement. There was no discussion about moving the adult facility. The same argument should apply to Hay River. There should have been no discussion about moving it if it was a replacement of an existing facility. Could the Minister please provide me with some avenue, some access that I may have to appeal to Cabinet to reconsider this decision because if they would at least give us the opportunity, I am sure we could make a very convincing argument for our community. Thank you.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

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Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Whether or not the decision, in the first instance, in isolation or in tandem with the decision to locate capital facilities elsewhere at that particular time, the fact is, as a Minister and as a Cabinet, we believe that locating the adult facility here is the most logical thing to do. To construct a young offenders facility here in partnership with the construction of the adult facility is the way to go. It is my view that we do not have time to revisit this, to put this back on the table. It means the entire capital projects should then also follow the same. We are not in the business of revisiting Cabinet decisions and opening up capital projects that have been voted on and committed to in this House in Cabinet and in the Financial Management Board. The time to have consulted was prior to June, 1998, and September, 1998. That, unfortunately, as far as I know, was not done. Thank you.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier. It is in regards to my Member's statement and the lack of progress in the area of the Northern Accord and also the developments that are taking place, yet there is very little progress in the area of the Northern Accord Agreement which was transferred from the federal government to this government to start negotiating the federal transfer devolution of the Northern Accord for oil and gas mineral resources to the Government of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, we have a lot of development happening. There was an agreement signed just yesterday between the Alberta government and TransCanada Pipelines to start looking at oil and gas reserves in the western Canadian sedimentary basin that goes from Alberta all the way up to the Beaufort Sea. There was mention also that they were looking at the oil and gas in the Beaufort Delta.

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Premier is, it has been over ten years since this agreement was signed off between the federal government and the Government of the Northwest Territories to conclude those negotiations. Can the Premier tell me how much of a priority is it for this government to conclude those negotiations and what resources have been put to concluding these negotiations? What is the department doing to try to ensure that we do work in this area? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Premier, Mr. Antoine. I heard three questions.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the whole area of our resources in the Northwest Territories is important to all of us as northerners. We consider the resources as ours. However, we do not have control over it. The federal government has control over our natural resources. They get the taxes and the royalties of our natural resources. They get it from the diamonds. They are going to get it from the gas and the oil out of Norman Wells and all the mining interests. This is the dilemma that we have been in for a long time.

This is one of the last areas of devolution that still exists here in the Northwest Territories which this government has been trying to do some work towards. Previous governments have tried it and have failed. We are attempting to get some understanding among all Northerners to set the groundwork for some possible arrangements. This is what we have been working at since getting in as Premier in December. In January, we undertook an extensive travelling schedule throughout the whole North, appearing before different organizations and appearing before different communities and explaining the agenda for a new North which the key component of it is gaining control. It is a sharing control of our own resource, and we have to do it in conjunction with the aboriginal governments.

We have to work together, all the organizations, the Government of the Northwest Territories, the aboriginal governments. We have to work together and build consensus before we move forward. The key to this is that the federal government, through Indian and Northern Affairs, controls this whole initiative right now, and we have to convince them somehow. Over the years, we have been fracturalized. The previous attempts to reach a Northern Accord have failed because they are different regions with their own agendas and a sense of their own control. The last time any federal minister said anything about it was Ron Irwin, who was the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs. He said if you could get 100 percent consensus amongst all the interested parties, then he would consider working toward some resolution. That is a tall order, Mr. Speaker. Since this government took over, we have been trying to do that. We have been meeting with groups. We are trying to set the atmosphere and the environment to try to move towards this. We are putting everything on the table. We are saying what kind of resources we have and the pressures on them. The only possibilities to gain more resources to provide programs and services in the North are from our own resources, and we have to realize that.

This is where the energy has been put in by this government. The Minister of Finance and the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development have spent a lot of time appearing before citizens in the North trying to explain this initiative. We have not given up on the people of the Northwest Territories. We are trying the best we can in the remaining life of this government. We made a decision yesterday that the election is going to be December 6. We back that up, and we have until the middle of October, about three months, to do some work. The only thing we could do in the life of this government is try to set the stage, get all the information out there. Hopefully, there is some good dialogue and discussion to develop here in the North by all citizens to realize this is the only avenue that we have to achieve more resources for people in the North so that, hopefully, in the future we will make life better for everybody in the North. Thank you.

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it is essential that we do conclude these negotiations, but I do not think it helps anything to make these agreements with national companies such as TransCanada Pipeline and make people aware of what pipelines do and when they cross. You are talking a pipeline up the MacKenzie Valley. It will have a major impact on the aboriginal people and the aboriginal groups that live in those areas. One of the key components to the land claim agreements in regard to the Inuvialuit, the Gwich'in, the Sahtu and all the Dogrib is this component of their land claim agreement to conclude these Northern Accord negotiations. It was done in the Yukon. I do not see why the Yukon government is any different than this government. They dealt with the aboriginal people. They were able to conclude their Northern Accord negotiations. They put the resources forth. They managed to sit down and talk with the aboriginal people, and they did come up with the agreement. I have to ramble on. I do not take six minutes like Mr. Kakfwi, so I am going to take my time here. I would like to make this government aware this has been done in the Yukon. This agreement has been here since 1988, eleven years...

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

You did have the opportunity to make your preamble. Could you ask your supplementary, please?

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David Krutko

David Krutko Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was just getting to the supplementary. This government has had four years to work on this item, yet no progress has been made, and this government is signing agreements with other jurisdictions. When is this government going to put the priority on these Northern Accord negotiations and try to conclude with the aboriginal people and not use cost as a factor and sit down and set up a table up to start negotiations as soon as possible?

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The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Mr. Antoine, I heard two questions.

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Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this government has been working on trying to set the atmosphere and get the environment ready to make all the different aboriginal governments aware of the situation we are in. Since January we have been doing that. It is not really up to us to start negotiations. Together, everybody in the north has to deal with the federal government. They have the control. The honourable Member has to understand that this is where the control is. We are working with all the different organizations in trying to achieve this understanding. The indication that we got from the federal government is that we have to get consensus by everybody involved up here before we move forward.

The other part of the question, I believe, is in regards to an MOU that was signed yesterday by the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development with the province of Alberta. Previously this government had an outstanding memorandum of understanding with the province of Alberta. This was signed previously, which was a very good agreement of cooperation and coordination between Alberta and the Northwest Territories. This MOU yesterday was a subagreement of that MOU that focuses on the possible gas and oil scenarios. My understanding of this MOU is that it is an agreement between the province of Alberta and the Northwest Territories that whatever they do, they keep us informed of their actions so that whatever decisions are made in Alberta do not have a negative, detrimental effect on us in the Northwest Territories. I think that it is a good agreement because they could make decisions that will have an effect on us in the future, so we need to be aware of what they are doing.

In regard to the TransCanada Pipeline MOU, this one is that TransCanada Pipeline had petitioned the government of Alberta to change the way they set tariffs for gas flowing through their pipeline system. The previous arrangement was that they had what they call a postage stamp arrangement, where no matter what distance you are from the producer, the price is the same. You could be a foot from the pipeline or you could be a thousand miles from the pipeline. The price is the same. They are applying to change the tariff by saying that the farther you are away from the producers, the more you pay. That will eventually include us here in the Northwest Territories, where the tariffs eventually, down the line, will be a lot higher for us here in the Northwest Territories than in Alberta, and it may have a negative impact in the future. We are setting the stage for the future. Maybe the First Nations up there will be get involved in gas production and oil production so that they do not have to pay the high tariff later on. This is my understanding of what the MOUs were. It is not the opening of our country or allowing pipelines to come through. This is setting the stage so that people in the North will eventually benefit more from our natural resources. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations
Question 252-13(7): Progress On Northern Accord Negotiations
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 704

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Ootes.

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Earlier today I spoke about the issue of transferring positions from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development's Northern Affairs Program to the North. This has been an ongoing issue for the last three years, with an effort by this government and certainly I have spoken about it for the last three years, to try and pursue the transfer of those positions. It is our understanding that the Northern Affairs Program has 135 positions in Ottawa, but if we are reasonable about it, we can identify 60 to 70 positions that could potentially be transferred to the North that are dedicated strictly to northern programs. That may have to be divided between Nunavut and the Northwest Territories. Now, the department has done studies on this, Mr. Speaker, and the studies did suggest that this should come about. There were two studies completed, and there was to be a third phase, but the department felt that there was no necessity for the third phase. I understood that the Minister of Indian Affairs and

Northern Development was going to make an announcement on this matter a number of weeks ago. My question is for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development to give us an update. First, let me ask if he has had any discussions recently with the federal Minister about this issue? Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Premier has been taking the lead on this issue. As I understand it, the federal government hired a consultant to advise them on how best to proceed to answer the question of whether they should go through the exercise of decentralizing staff and their responsibilities of administration to the territories of Nunavut, the Northwest Territories, and the Yukon, particularly in regard to the Northern Affairs Program. They have already done phase one and phase two of the study, and as I understand, recently Jane Stewart, the Minister, has said she will forego phase three and simply fortify herself to make a decision on the issue of whether or not she agrees to decentralize staff and resources from the department and the Northern Affairs program within her department to the Northwest Territories, Nunavut, and the Yukon. The Premier is planning to have a meeting with Ms. Stewart next week, and this will be on the agenda. Thank you.

Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Has our government analyzed the positions that are affected? It seems that the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs has identified 135 positions. Then they stated, but only a certain percentage of that really affects programs here in the North. The rest are policy and so forth. Could the Minister tell me if we have done our own analysis of these positions to see which ones are appropriately positioned in the North? Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have done some analysis of the positions and the resources that are at stake here, and we should be prepared to table that for Ministers or for Members when it is available so that they can review those. Hopefully, a decision will be made fairly shortly by the Minister, Jane Stewart. She is still the Minister. There has been no Cabinet shuffle, so fortunately she now has time to make that decision. I will look forward to hearing from her and our Premier next week. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

At the time that I raised this issue, I asked if this government would request the federal government to do an analysis of all positions of all departments in the federal government. Could the Minister tell me if that has been followed up on with regard to transfers to the North? For example, there is the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and Environment, and there are others. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The federal government, as far as we know, has been only open to reviewing the question of decentralization from the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs. Fisheries and Oceans and Environment and the other federal departments have no interest and no mandate to discuss decentralization of their staff and resources at this time. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Ootes.

Supplementary To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If they are not interested in discussing this in the other departments, what is this government doing about addressing that particular issue to try and see what is more appropriately located here in the North? Their argument for the Northern Affairs Program is that it is more effective to have people that are making decisions on the North located here in the North. If that is the case with other government officials in other departments, then it should also pertain to those departments. As I said earlier, a good example was that if it had not been for us here in the North, us being all people of the North, Hay River people, the Yellowknife people, the legislative people, the Ministers, the MLAs, we would not have a value-added industry developing here in the Northwest Territories, which could be a major industry in Canada. We are the ones that are able to identify this. We need to also address this in terms of other departments and see whether those positions would be more appropriately located here. I repeat my question, what is this government doing about analyzing other departments? Thanks.

Supplementary To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have not done any work on analyzing the question of decentralization and its benefits and impact with regard to the North and with respect to federal departments. We have not done any work in that area. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Question 253-13(7): Moving Federal Positions North
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 705

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Erasmus.

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development in the area of market gardens, the Community Market Garden Development Program. Mr. Speaker, for some time now all we have been hearing about is what we are going to do in the area of diamond mines and subsidizing gold mines and oil and gas, all the rest of that kind of stuff. People have been asking, when are we going to start supporting and promoting non-renewable resources in the North? We are very, very pleased that the Minister has announced this support for the Community Market Garden Development Program. I am not sure when the press release came out because the press release is not dated. However, it is number 99-065. The press release says, a new program is supporting development of small-scale foods and market garden production in the Northwest Territories. The Community Market Garden Development Program was recently announced by Minister Stephen Kakfwi. Mr. Kakfwi is quoted as saying,"Market gardens can play a vital role in northern life, with committed support from the department, not only will community residents learn more about food, it will also provide a valuable stable community service." Mr. Speaker, we thought this was a great idea, so we checked into it a little bit. The press release states that a maximum of $5,000 is available to cover capital start-up costs, and that is true. What it did not say is that $5,000 is the total amount that is allocated for the North Slave region. I would like to ask the Minister what he meant when he said, with committed support from the department? Could he explain that, please?

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Kakfwi.

Return To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Member for the compliment. I have not heard anything positive for a couple of days, so I am relieved to know there is something positive on the horizon from him. The Market Garden Development Program was announced in June, perhaps much too late for most of our communities to take advantage of, but as under-resourced as it is, as late as it was introduced, it is still, as the Member recognizes, a good initiative. With dwindling resources, with limited , I as the Minister and the department have chosen to initiate the program anyway. What we have said is that we are trying to provide at least $5,000 to at least one initiative per community so that anyone who wants to get into market gardening to sell their products will be eligible to receive this assistance. I agree that there is not anywhere near the kind of resources that should be allocated to this, but with more positive comments from the other side, we may be moved to look at increasing it next year, if we can. I want to encourage Members to be very positive in the way they perceive the hard work of Ministers on this side and to know that there are good things happening in spite of recent perceptions and the rhetoric. Thank you.

Return To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus.

Supplementary To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, after all that, I still do not know what the committed support is from the government. However, I guess that could mean $5,000 every year. I am glad to hear the Minister indicate that he might consider increasing the amount of money that is available because as of a week or so ago in this region alone, 600 people showed their interest by picking up application forms. I would like to ask the Minister if he could seriously consider increasing the amount of that $5,000 for next growing season. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will consider the suggestion, the advice, or the recommendation by the Member. I am serious about that. I think it is a good initiative. If there is any possible way to increase the allocation of resources to this particular program, I will most definitely do it. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Erasmus.

Supplementary To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One of the stipulations is that in larger centres like Yellowknife, you have to have a minimum of three acres of land that you are using to plant food and that type of stuff in. It is pretty hard to find three solid acres around Yellowknife here. In Europe, where land is hard to come by, there are many successful market gardens which sustain a full-time market gardener on less than one hectare. The community market garden here in town is 50 feet by 300 feet, set up to feed 48 people minimally, and three acres is 362 feet by 362 feet, which is roughly six times as large as that. I wonder if the Minister could also possibly reconsider this qualification that there has to be a minimum of three acres. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will do that. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Erasmus.

Supplementary To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I have one final question out of the Minister's statement. He had indicated that this was announced in June. The documents here indicate that your application for this year had to be in by the end of May. I was just wondering why they bothered to announce this initiative this year if it is already too late to apply. Thank you.

Supplementary To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 706

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Kakfwi.

Further Return To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 707

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have no idea why that happened, but I will ask the department to clarify that for me.

Further Return To Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Question 254-13(7): Community Market Garden Development Program
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 707

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Mr. Henry.

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have some questions for the Premier on statements that were made in the House today in regard to the Dogrib Agreement-In-Principle. Also, the Minister of Finance made a statement on the same topic as regards funding for that agreement-in-principle. My first question, Mr. Speaker, is to the Premier. He noted in his statement today, and I quote, that the Dogrib Agreement-in-Principle will become a public document after it is initialled on August 9. I encourage Members of this House and all citizens of the Northwest Territories with an interest in this matter to take some time to review it.

My question to the Premier is, what process will be used to receive the response from the public of the Northwest Territories to this document? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Premier.

Return To Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 707

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Dogrib Agreement-In-Principle will be initialled at their Assembly on August 9, and up to then these documents are private kinds of documents. Once this is initialled, that is when everybody in the North and anybody that is interested have it available to them. At that point in time, once this gets out, there will be reaction, I guess, through the MLAs. We do not have any formal mechanism set up now, but we do have a Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs here, which I am the Minister of as well as being Premier, and we will have a system in place hopefully to get the comments at that point. I think MLAs will probably be inundated with the concerns and so forth. I think this is the way it is right now. If it is necessary to come up with some sort of a formal clearing house to get information, then perhaps we should consider that as well. Thank you.

Return To Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 707

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Supplementary To Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 707

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am glad to hear that from the Minister, and I encourage the Premier to advise the House and the people of the territories of whatever mechanism is put in place to receive that input. My second question, Mr. Speaker, to the Premier is, is there a timetable set for the continuation of trying to reach a final agreement on this claim? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 707

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine.

Further Return To Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 707

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you. Before I answer that question, I want to qualify the previous question by saying that the ministry is developing a communications strategy on how to approach this initiative. In regard to the process, the chief negotiators have the authority now to go and initial this document to kick off the formal process, and the next stage after that would be the signing of the agreement-in-principle. There are some concerns that we have that we would like to see addressed prior to the signing of the agreement-in-principle, so the time frame between the initialling and the signing is not specified at this point in time by us. In order to allow for our concerns to be met, especially the boundary issues, it may take some time. We are not too sure at this time how long this time frame is going to be. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 707

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Oral questions. Final supplementary, Mr. Henry.

Supplementary To Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 707

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on the cost to implement this agreement, at whatever time it is finalized, it has been communicated by this government that it is the responsibility of the federal government. Has this government had any feedback on that comment that it is their fiduciary responsibility to fund the implementation of these agreements and not a GNWT cost? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Supplementary To Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 707

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Antoine.

Further Return To Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 707

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the big concern about funding the self-government arrangements along with the land claims has been a concern to us. The position of this Cabinet has been that we wanted to have as much agreement met in regard to the eventual funding of self-government arrangements prior to agreement-in-principle. However, upon the numerous attempts, the federal government and the Dogrib First Nations have decided that they would like to deal with the financial issues prior to the final agreement. So the position now of this government is that the financial responsibility of its incremental cost, whatever it may be, should be 100 percent borne by the federal government. This is the position we have had, and to date we have not come to any satisfactory arrangement with the federal government to try to accommodate us in our position. Thank you.

Further Return To Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Question 255-13(7): Dogrib Agreement-in-principle
Item 6: Oral Questions

Page 707

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Question period is over. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a petition here signed by 25 residents of Hay River.

We, the undersigned citizens of the town of Hay River, would like to keep the flag the way it is. We see no need to change the flag and the coat of arms for the Northwest Territories.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Mr. Ootes.

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 708

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Government Operations has reviewed Bill 24, An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, and wishes to report that Bill 24 is now ready for committee of the whole. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive rule 70(5) and have Bill 24 moved into committee of the whole for today.

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 708

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Member for Yellowknife Centre is seeking unanimous consent to waive rule 70(5) and move Bill 24 into committee of the whole for today. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Ootes, you have unanimous consent. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 708

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to report to the Assembly that the Standing Committee on Government Operations has reviewed Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Workers' Compensation Act, and we wish to report that Bill 25 is now ready for committee of the whole. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to waive rule 70(5) and have Bill 25 moved into committee of the whole for today. Thank you.

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 708

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The Member for Yellowknife North is seeking unanimous consent to waive rule 70(5). Do we have any nays?

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 708

Some Hon. Members

Nay.

Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills
Item 12: Reports Of Committees On The Review Of Bills

Page 708

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Mr. Erasmus, you do not have unanimous consent. Reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. Mr. Dent.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled, Financing the Implementation of Self-Government - Government of the Northwest Territories Principles. Mr. Speaker, I have a second document, if I may.

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

I would also like to table the document entitled, NWT Power Corporation 1998-1999 Annual Report. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Tabling of documents. Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled, Minister's Response to the Forum on Education. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Tabling of documents. Mr. Morin.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to table a document, the western NWT Aboriginal Summit press release, Aboriginal Summit Supports Government Operations Committee Report on Bill 15. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Tabling of documents. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to table directive 302, section 4.3, consultation guidelines for capital project budget adjustments from the Financial Administration Manual. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion Item 15, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Mr. Morin.

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to go back to notices of motions. Thank you.

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Tu Nedhe is seeking unanimous consent to go back to item 14, notices of motion. Do we have any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Morin, you have unanimous consent.

Motion 25-13(7): Move Td 61-13(7) Into Committee Of The Whole
Revert To Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 708

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Monday, August 2, I will move the following motion. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife North, that the tabled document 61-13(7), a press release by the Western NWT Aboriginal Summit dated July 29, 1999, be moved into committee of the whole for consideration. Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time I will be seeking unanimous consent to deal with my motion today. Thank you.

Motion 25-13(7): Move Td 61-13(7) Into Committee Of The Whole
Revert To Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 708

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. Notices of motion. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Bills, Committee report 2-

13(7). Mr. Morin.

Motion 25-13(7): Move Td 61-13(7) Into Committee Of The Whole
Revert To Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 709

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to go back to motions.

Motion 25-13(7): Move Td 61-13(7) Into Committee Of The Whole
Revert To Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 709

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The Member for Tu Nedhe is seeking unanimous consent to go back to item 14, notices of motion. Do we have any nays?

Motion 25-13(7): Move Td 61-13(7) Into Committee Of The Whole
Revert To Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 709

Some Hon. Members

Nay.

Motion 25-13(7): Move Td 61-13(7) Into Committee Of The Whole
Revert To Item 14: Notices Of Motion

Page 709

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

You do not have unanimous consent. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters. Committee Report 2-13(7); Tabled Document 31-13(7); Bills 15, 19, 20, 23, 24 and 25.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 709

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Good afternoon. The committee is dealing with Committee Report 2-13(7), Tabled Document 31-13(7), Bills 15, 16, 19, 20, 23, and 24. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 709

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to request a short break.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 709

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Morin is requesting a short break. We will take a short break after the committee decides which item we will start with when we come back. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Ootes, which item?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 709

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, I move that we continue with Bill 15.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

I believe we were dealing with Committee Report 2-13. What is the wish of the committee?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, I move that we continue with Committee Report 2-13, the report on Bill 15, which I understood was finished yesterday, and then continue with Bill 15.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Are you making a motion? I do not believe we concluded with Committee Report 2-13(7). I believe we reported progress and we did not conclude that item. Mr. Morin.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that we conclude the item that we were considering yesterday, the committee report, that we deal with that item first. Thank you.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 709

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Does the committee concur that we conclude Committee Report 2-13(7) and continue on with Bill 15?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 709

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

We will take a 20 minute break.

--Break

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 709

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

I will call the committee of the whole back to order. We are dealing with Committee Report 2-13(7). We are now on page 22 of the report. I would like to ask, what is the wish of the committee? Mr. Erasmus.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, it is probably appropriate to make concluding statements on the report. If it is okay, I would like to make my concluding statements.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 709

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Does the committee concur with making closing statements in regard to Committee Report 2-13(7)? Agreed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 709

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 709

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some time ago we began this process, which really started after voting on the Boundaries Commission's report that no new seats were added to Yellowknife. The Friends of Democracy went to court and got a ruling that no constituency could be more than 25 percent above the average population of the average constituency in the Northwest Territories. From that, Bill 15 arose, and we the Standing Committee on Government Operations had that bill for 120 days. We went to several communities and heard representations from aboriginal people as well as from non-aboriginal people. In the smaller communities the feeling was pretty well unanimous, I could say, that they are very, very afraid of what this bill will be doing. They asked us to put some controls, I suppose you could call it, into place and to put a new process into place so that a new way of governing the North could be put into place not for this election but for the following one. That was the birth of our recommendations.

We obviously took the Premier's statement from March 24 to heart, knowing full well that he would live by what he had indicated, that in his view, building understanding of the issues and reaching a political resolution is critical if we are to move beyond this issue as a unified new territory. We did try to find out what the people wanted, and today the Aboriginal Summit issued a press release which was tabled as Tabled Document 61-13(7). If I may, I will just read the contents. It reads:

Members of the NWT Aboriginal Summit are supporting the recommendations of the Legislative

Assembly's Government Operations Committee for changes to Bill 15. The GNWT has proposed

legislation to add five new seats to the Assembly for urban areas. These measures are the least the

Assembly can do for aboriginal people outside Yellowknife, says Gary Bohnet, the President of the Metis

Nation NWT and co-chair of the summit, after a noon hour conference call with summit members.

Bill Erasmus, National Chief of the Dene Nation and co-chair of the summit added, the committee Members

who sponsored this report did go out and listen to people. Their report should be taken seriously. We

must make it clear, though, that the Dene Nation Chiefs as well as summit members do not support

adding five seats. Our support for the measures proposed by the committee does not mean that we agree

with the intent of the bill. Measures proposed by the committee include a work plan with clear guidelines

for the negotiation of a political accord with aboriginal governments, a legal reference to the Supreme Court of Canada on the relationship of aboriginal rights and individuals democratic rights, a six Member

Cabinet with guaranteed regional representation, a Constitutional and Electoral Reform Commission,

and a sunset clause that would repeal the boundaries when the next Assembly dissolves.

Bohnet pointed out that some of the committee's recommendations cannot be considered in isolation

from others. There is no sense in having a sunset clause if there is not any provision for a Constitutiona

and Electoral Reform Commission to work out new relationships and a new plan for electoral boundaries,

he said. The Northwest Territories Cabinet has already rejected some of the proposed measures,

including the legal reference and the introduction of legislation to establish a Constitutional and Electoral

Reform Commission.

The Cabinet has suggested they will negotiate a political accord and deal with

constitutional development through a proposed intergovernmental forum process. The mandate and

structure of the intergovernmental forum process has not been defined. The role in this process of

regional and tribal aboriginal governments, the Inuvialuit, and the Metis is not clear. It is not even

clear the process will get off the ground. Therefore, we strongly support an independent constitutional

commission established in law and reporting to both Legislative Assembly and the aboriginal leadership,

Bohnet said. Mr. Chairman, that was a press release that was released by the Western NWT Aboriginal

Summit earlier today. With that, I am hoping that the Cabinet will reconsider their stance earlier that

they would not agree totally with our recommendations. With the voice of the Aboriginal Summit that

they do agree to this type of a process, hopefully the Cabinet would reconsider and indicate that they

would reconsider.

Mr. Chairman, this has been a long process. I would have rather preferred to stay in Yellowknife and to be with my family and to spend more time with my family, even when we were in Yellowknife, during this long process as, I am sure, the rest of our committee Members that did work on this and the staff that also did the work. I would like to thank everybody that worked on the report and thank the people who came forward and made presentations. Hopefully the Cabinet will reconsider their stance in light of the press release from the Aboriginal Summit. With that, I would like to thank you for allowing me to make my closing comments. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 710

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Closing comments with regards to Committee Report 2-13(7). Mr. Morin.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 710

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to thank the people of the western Northwest Territories for their input into the public review of Bill 15 that the Standing Committee on Government Operations undertook. The recommendations of our committee should be given due consideration. The recommendations are, through our committee, from the people of the Northwest Territories. At this time in our history we have a very fragile political working relationship with all parties in the Northwest Territories. We should be looking very seriously at ways of the new western territory moving ahead and doing that in unity. I know the next item on this agenda is the government's introduction of their Bill 15. I know that the government has listened to what we have had to say. I know that our government has an opportunity, through the introduction of their bill, to consider some of the recommendations that we put forward as a committee. So I look forward to hearing what they have to say. With that, I thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 710

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Are there any closing comments to Committee Report 2-13(7). If there are no other closing comments, what is the wish of the committee? Does the committee agree that this matter is concluded?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 710

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 710

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Prior to the adjournment, we agreed to move on to the next item, Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act. Mr. Premier, do you have some opening comments?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 710

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Bill 15 is intended to meet the requirements set down by the Supreme Court of the Northwest Territories with respect to electoral districts in the Northwest Territories.

The main purpose of the bill is to revise the electoral districts of Hay River, Inuvik and Yellowknife to establish five additional electoral districts. The bill also revises the electoral district for Deh Cho to include the community of Enterprise.

In addition, this bill;

- eliminates ten current electoral districts that will be located in Nunavut on the establishment of that new territory;

- makes minor amendments to the descriptions of some of the other existing electoral districts by replacing references to the Nunavut Settlement Area Boundary with reference to the Nunavut - Northwest Territories Boundary; and

- provides that it will come into force on the first dissolution of the Legislative Assembly after April 1, 1999.

Yesterday, Mr. Chairman, we debated the recommendations of the Standing Committee on Government Operations based on their review of the bill.

Cabinet is very concerned about the comments of several honourable Members during our discussion in committee of the whole yesterday. In particular, we are concerned about the comments made by some that we have rejected the committee's recommendations on this bill. Cabinet has not, I repeat, has not rejected any of the recommendations.

In fact, Mr. Chairman, Cabinet agreed in principle with all of the recommendations of the committee with the exception of establishing a limit of six Members on Cabinet. We also asked for more time to review the issue of whether to pursue a legal reference as this is a complex legal issue and we need time to do a careful review.

Our objective in making our comments yesterday, which I thought I explained adequately in my opening, was to provide our initial position to the recommendations based on a 24-hour review, since we received the report.

It is important to note that Members of the committee have undertaken their work for the past several months and have had and opportunity to fully consider these issues and discuss the implications. We expect the same courtesy, Mr. Chairman.

Members will note that most of our comments yesterday concerned the process for implementing the recommendations. Now that the recommendations of the committee have been formal motions of the House, we intend to give them full consideration. We will report back to the Members of this House as soon as possible. Equally important, we intend to consult with the appropriate stakeholders to determine the support for each recommendation.

For example, on the issue of the Constitutional and Electoral Reform Commission, we indicated that we were in full support of the intent of this recommendation. In fact, we intend to immediately consult with aboriginal leaders and other stakeholders to consider their views on the recommendations and to determine how best to proceed.

Mr. Chairman, several Members seemed to take the issue with the government pursuing an intergovernmental forum. It is somewhat confusing that this concept would be criticized given that it is intended to bring together people, aboriginal and public governments, to discuss on an ongoing basis, our intergovernmental relationship here in the North. This, in our view, seemed to be the intent of the committee's recommendation on negotiations of a political accord. With that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to address Bill 15. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Does the Chairman of the Standing Committee on Government Operations which reviewed Bill 15 like to make opening comments? Mr Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Mr. Chairman, the committee's comments are already on record in their report, as well as the comments that I made yesterday in introducing the bill. Perhaps we could open it up for general comments from the Members? If I may, I would make a few general comments as a Member and not as a chair of the committee?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

We can deal with that when we get to general comments on the bill. At this time, I would like to ask the Minister if he would like to bring in witnesses.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Yes, I would.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Does the committee agree that the Premier may bring in witnesses?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Sergeant-at-Arms, you may bring in the witnesses. Mr. Minister, can you introduce your witnesses?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, to my right, we have Mr. Shawn Flynn. He is the legislative counsel. To my left, I have Mr. Rick Bargery. He is the principal secretary. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments on Bill 15? Mr. Morin.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for clarification, Mr. Premier, on your opening remarks, you had talked about now that the recommendations of the committee's report are formal motions in committee of the whole in the past that you will be immediately going out to the stakeholders to consult on moving ahead on the Constitutional Electoral Reform Commission, so that would start immediately? Will that start immediately? We do have a time frame that there is a session being scheduled for late September sometime. In order for this Assembly to deal with that, we would have to start immediately, consulting with the stakeholder groups.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Premier.

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Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we will immediately draft letters to aboriginal leaders, community leaders, and different organizations in the Northwest Territories with the content of Bill 15, as well as the recommendation of the committee which suggests that we introduce legislation on a number of key areas, and we intend to do that right away. I had already instructed my staff to begin drafting a comprehensive, informative letter to the appropriate leaders in the Northwest Territories, as well as myself, as well as other Members of Cabinet have been scheduled to continue to attend all the annual assemblies of the different organizations. In fact, I will be attending the Deh Cho First Nations Assembly in Kakisa here next week. Mr. Kakfwi is scheduled to attend the Dogrib Assembly here the following week, and there is a Sahtu Secretariat General Assembly. There is a Gwich'in Assembly still coming up, and the Metis Nation is having theirs in September. There is a series of different Assemblies that we are scheduled to attend. These are all the opportunities that we see right offhand to pursue a consultation with the aboriginal leaders and the different stakeholders. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Premier. General comments. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When you are dealing with the Aboriginal Summit and the stakeholder groups, because of the time constraint, the government has to be fairly focused and the aboriginal governments have to be paying attention to this issue as well as being focused. Also, in order to get these people to all talk about a political solution, this being one of those, there would have to be proper resources put there to assist them to come to the table. Have you thought of that at all?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Premier.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 711

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have just recently, in the last 48 hours, officially received the report, although we kind of knew what was in it prior to that. Being in the House and trying to deal with the concerns raised in the House, we have not really looked at that approach and whether

we are going to have some resources available. Perhaps it is something that we have to look at. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Premier. General comments. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What the Premier is saying is that he is committed to working with the stakeholder groups to come through with a political solution in the life of this 13th Assembly. He will make all the necessary efforts to bring back legislation in the fall sitting.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Premier.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, our intention is to consult with all the stakeholders and all the different leaders on the recommendations of the committee and want to know whether there is support for making a major initiative. For example, in the Constitutional Political Commission, which is a very major initiative that has been there for us to consider in developing legislation. That is the main one for me, to have a complete buy-in by all the different stakeholders. If that is the case, in the time that we have now, we have already tentatively agreed to have another session in September, I have asked our technical people whether it is technically possible to draft legislation of that magnitude in the time frame that we have. It is going to be very tight. If there is a complete buy-in by all the aboriginal groups and the different stakeholders, then we will attempt to begin legislation for the future, perhaps even in September. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Premier. General comments. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Just for clarification once again, Mr. Chairman. I know none of us can foretell the future, but indications are that people are looking for a political solution to Bill 15 and a companion document in order to ensure that there is a process in place to establish a new constitution for the western Arctic as well as electorial boundaries. In order to do that it means, just like we have said in our committee report, that the government has to consult, has to go and talk to the people, the stakeholders, to put this together to bring the legislation forward. I am hearing that the Premier, on behalf of his government, is totally committed to doing that, to putting that effort there. This is what I would like to know now. You know what the life of the 13th Assembly is. There is a date. What it is, I forget, but I do know that it is possible to have a Legislative Assembly sitting as late as late September, possibly early October. I am not quite sure of the dates. Are you willing to support a legislative sitting at the latest possible time in the life of this Assembly in order to get the consultation done and the legislation done, if possible?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Premier.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we are going to put all the effort that we can into trying to consult with aboriginal groups. We want to have a really focused approach and try to see if there is a buy-in into the recommendations that the committee put forward. If there is buy-in, we will also attempt to try to develop legislation. We will consider that. In regard to timing of the fall sitting, we tentatively had agreed that there would be a session in the early part of September. That is certainly subject to change. We have already changed dates before, so I guess it is really the will of the caucus to determine when such a sitting is going to be. If it is later, we will have to revisit our original decision to consider that and perhaps to accommodate some of the work that may be deemed to be necessary at that time. If we need the time, then perhaps we should consider that as well. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Premier. General comments. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the recommendations the committee made on this bill is to pass legislation on the 2-2-2 make-up of the Executive Council. The government felt that would be better done through convention. When you are consulting with the stakeholders of the Northwest Territories - we have only heard the opinion of the general public at our public hearings that supported this - will you also consult on that issue of 2-2-2, whether it should be in legislation or it should be a convention of the House, and reconsider that as well?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Premier.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

We will do that. As I said, we will consider all the recommendations that are made by the committee for this Bill 15, including the 2-2-2. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

General comments. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you. How soon will the government be able to get back to the committee on an approximate time schedule to nail down how you are going to proceed on this issue from tomorrow until the end of the life of this Assembly?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Premier.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are getting into a really tight time crunch in regard to taking the recommendations and writing letters to people with requests that they respond by certain time frames. That is one approach that we initially thought of. As well, these Assemblies go on. In summertime it is very difficult to try to get to people because there are holidays in different Assemblies. We will attempt everything that we can to try to reach everybody, but it is going to be quite difficult to do because of the amount of time we have left to do this work and the time of the year. We will make all efforts to try to come back and keep the committee members as informed as possible. It is very difficult at this time to say that we are going to do this at this time and are going to respond. It is very difficult, but we will try to do it as timely and quickly as we can. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Will you commit to this Legislative Assembly that this is the highest priority for your government and the highest priority for yourself as Premier to try to work out a political solution and consult with those aboriginal groups and other stakeholders?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 712

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Premier.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Mr. Chairman, if the last few days were any indication of what to expect to in September, I am certainly going to make it my first priority. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Premier. General comments. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

When decisions are made and they are decisive, sometimes names change. Instead of lame duck, maybe it should be muddy duck once decisions are made. In all seriousness, Mr. Premier, this is a critical issue for the western Northwest Territories. I know how busy you and your Cabinet Members are, but at this time in our history we have to be focused. We have to move ahead and we have to give some assurances to our small communities prior to the next election. We have to do everything possible. That is why we are here. I do not speak for the Standing Committee on Government Operations, but if we can help in any way, we would be willing to do that to work on a political solution. I know you have a process in place right now where you do have our chairperson involved with yourself, your Minister of Finance, but if you need more help, then we would be willing to do that. It is something that has to be addressed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Premier.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Certainly, if I can get the direction from Cabinet, whenever we get back together here in the next few days and raise this issue and if ordinary Members are free for doing this work and they have some energy and are willing to help us out on this one here, then certainly we would welcome that and maybe make some arrangements on how we could work together on this whole initiative. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Premier. General comments. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one last question on clarification. In order for any constitutional or electoral boundary commission to be established and in order for it to be of any substance, your government would have to adjourn the presentation of Bill 15 introducing an amendment to sunset this bill. Will you be doing that today? Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Mr. Premier.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

I think the honourable Member is asking about a technical move here in regard to Bill 15 and the amendment for a sunset clause. We thought that Members of the committee were going to do the amendment and we were going to support that.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Clarification. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think it is up to this committee, but we have all that work done and we could share it with you to show how much we are willing to work with you and allow you, instead of ourselves taking all of the glory, we would allow the government or give the government the opportunity to introduce an amendment so that it shows the people in the Northwest Territories that we are fully committed to moving ahead and looking for a political solution and we are all working together.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Mr. Premier.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We could do that. We will do that if Members of the committee wish us to.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Premier. General Comments. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As has been indicated, the smaller communities do need some form of reassurance that things are going to happen and in order for that reassurance we feel very strongly that things have to be in legislation before this Assembly dissolves and we all know that legislation takes time to be drafted and there are only certain people that can do drafting, but this government has used drafters from the south in the past and we have people in the past who used to work here that live in other jurisdictions and I know that this government still uses them. I would like to see if the Premier would be willing to use other drafters than our own staff if we have to in order to insure that this legislation is completed in time to be passed by this Assembly. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. Mr. Premier.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the honourable Member is correct that whenever there are really tight timelines or unusual types of legislation, the government has in the past contracted drafters to draft legislation and I am also told that normally the legislation of this nature would take something like four or five months, but we all know that we are in a time crunch, and we will consider contracting drafters for this situation and we will see what is available and we will consider that. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Mr. Erasmus.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just like to thank the Premier for his forthright answers and reiterate that if there is any further assistance that the committee Members can provide then we would be happy to oblige, and I would like to thank the Premier for indicating that they will be consulting with the stakeholders to see if there is concurrence with our recommendations. That is the most we could ask for that the government see what the reaction is, because I do not think we would want to put something into place that nobody else agrees to it either. So, with that I would once again like to thank the Premier and his Cabinet for agreeing to do this.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Thank you, Mr. Erasmus. It is more of a comment than a question. General comments. Mr. Morin.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Maybe we can have Mr. Miltenberger repeat his comments that he made on Bill 15.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

General comments. Does the Committee agree we go clause by clause?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 713

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. We are ready to proceed clause by clause. Clause 1. Agreed?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 2. Agreed? Thank you. Premier Antoine.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Madam Chairperson, I move that Bill 15 be amended by adding the following after clause 2:

2. 1. The following is added after subsection 2(2):

(3) This section and Schedules A and B are repealed on the dissolution of the 14th Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Premier Antoine. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Ootes.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Can we get an explanation of this please.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Premier.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Jim Antoine Nahendeh

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. In considering this amendment, Madam Chairperson, Cabinet weighed its intended effect against the potential for the next Legislative Assembly to find itself in the same kind of constitutional crisis that has engulfed this Assembly and Territory for the past seven months so in our view, given that the 14th Assembly will have four years to deal with this matter, the risk of another constitutional crisis is remote. However, this time provides the next, which is the 14th Assembly, with a unique opportunity to consider issues of representation once treaty and self-government negotiations are further advanced and that intergovernmental relationships between aboriginal and public governments become clear. That is the intention of complying with this amendment as recommended by the Standing Committee on Government Operations. Thank you.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Premier Antoine. To the motion. Mr. Ootes.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Jake Ootes

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I would like to make note that I will be voting against this motion. I do not believe that we should bind the next Legislature on this matter and I question how we are going to deal with the court order in that particular case if there is dissolution of this particular bill or a sunset clause in this bill, so I will be voting against this, Madam Chairperson.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. To the motion. Mr. Henry.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I will be voting against this motion and Madam Chairperson, if this bill passes and the amendment that is proposed, if this passes I think the first thing this government should do is authorize a review of whether or not this or any government can put a time limit on the Charter of Rights and Freedoms granted to every citizen in Canada. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Clause 2, as amended. Agreed?

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed. Thank you. I will ask Mr. Krutko to take the chair.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Clause 3. Agreed?

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Clause 4. Agreed?

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Clause 5. Agreed?

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 38-13(7): To Amend Clause 2 Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Schedule A. Mr. Roland.

Committee Motion 39-13(7): To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have a motion to move. I move:

That Appendix A of Bill 15 be amended by

a) striking out "2. INUVIK WEST" in proposed item 2 of Schedule A and by substituting "2. INUVIK TWIN LAKES";

b) striking out "3. INUVIK EAST" in proposed item 3 of Schedule A and by substituting "3. INUVIK BOOT LAKE"; and

c) striking out "Inuvik East and Inuvik West" in proposed item 4 of Schedule A and by substituting "Inuvik Boot Lake and Inuvik Twin Lakes". Thank you.

Committee Motion 39-13(7): To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Roland.

Committee Motion 39-13(7): To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have proposed this motion because in the community of Inuvik, there is a long history of east and west that is not a healthy one when you look back at the community when it originally started out. As people of Inuvik realized that Bill 15 which establishes 19 seats was going to get approval, a lot of the constituents of mine came forward and said we must at least do something. If we can not change it any other way then we must at least do the minimum of changing the names. That is why I have proposed this to try at least, in the names, remove ourselves from some of our history of Inuvik east and west originally meant. Hopefully, this will at least cover some of those bases. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 39-13(7): To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

To the motion. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 39-13(7): To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So this motion changes the names to Inuvik Twin Lakes and Inuvik Boot Lake? Is that correct? Boot Lake?

Committee Motion 39-13(7): To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 714

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Yes, Mr. Morin, that is the wording in the motion but the mover of the motion can concur. Mr.

Roland.

Committee Motion 39-13(7): To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Looking at the community of Inuvik and trying to establish two geographic sort of settings to the town of Inuvik that is split now by this boundary, there are two lakes in Inuvik, sets of lakes in Inuvik that fall into each riding. I can give you a long history on this but I will keep it short. The one side has a lake named Boot Lake because of its shape and the other side has a twin lake so that is the simplest and easiest to go with.

Committee Motion 39-13(7): To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Appendix A, as amended. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Committee Motion 40-13(7): To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a motion. I move;

That Appendix A of Bill 15 be amended by;

(a) striking out "Northwest Territories Highway Number 3" wherever it appears in each of proposed items 8 and 9 of Schedule A and by substituting "Northwest Territories Highway Number 2"; and

(b) striking out "Ravine Road" wherever it appears in each of proposed items 8 and 9 of Schedule A and by substituting "Gaetz Drive".

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 40-13(7): To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Appendix A as amended.

Committee Motion 40-13(7): To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 40-13(7): To Amend Appendix A Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Appendix B. Mr. Roland.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

Floyd Roland

Floyd Roland Inuvik

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move;

That Appendix B of Bill 15 be amended by;

(a) striking out "Inuvik East" in proposed Schedule B and by substituting "Inuvik Boot Lake"; and

(b) striking out "Inuvik West" in proposed Schedule B and by substituting "Inuvik Twin Lakes".

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Appendix B, as amended. Agreed?

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

The bill as a whole, as amended. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the bill as a whole, myself I will be voting against it. I never did agree with this Bill 15, never will. I believe that the people of the Northwest Territories can come up with political solutions, come up with a constitution, they can come up with a new governance. I believe they have the will to do that and they have the ability. The only reason this bill is in this Legislative Assembly is because a judge put it here. It is as simple as that. I do not agree with increasing the representation to the major centres in the Western Territory. I believe that was part of a constitutional...

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

The Chair

The Chair David Krutko

Excuse me, could I have some order here. We are speaking to the bill as a whole and I asked if there are any comments and there was. Mr. Morin has the floor so we will allow Mr. Morin to conclude his statement.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Like I was saying before I was so rudely interrupted, this bill is part of a constitutional development process of how governance should be carried out in the western Arctic. I do not believe that this should of went ahead without a new constitution for the west and fair representation and equal voice from all the regions and our small communities. By itself it is going to be a detrimental to our small communities so when the time comes, Madam Chairperson, I would request a recorded vote on the bill as a whole. Thank you.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Morin, for your request for a recorded vote. There is no requirement for a motion at this stage. There will be a motion and a vote taken again when the bill receives third reading. This is just to say that the committee has finished considering the bill as a whole. Bill as a whole, as amended. Agreed?

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed. Does the committee agree that Bill 15, as amended, is ready for third reading? Agreed?

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Bill 15 is now ready for third reading as amended and I would like to thank the Honourable Premier and Mr. Flynn and Mr. Bargery. Thank you. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I propose that we move on to deal with Bill 19, followed by Bill 20 and depending on the time, if we have time, Bill 23.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Does the committee agree?

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

The committee agreed. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 715

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The Minister

would like to proceed with Bill 19 and then Bill 20? Is that my understanding?

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Madam Chairperson, I recommended that we proceed first with Bill 19, followed by Bill 20 and then, if we have time, Bill 23.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Does the committee agree?

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed. Thank you. Everyone will please turn to Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Labour Standards Act. Mr. Kakfwi, would you please proceed with opening remarks.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The main purpose of these amendments to the Labour Standards Act is to provide for a new method of calculating overtime payable to workers who are paid by commission or other incentive pay in whole or in part. In making this change, we will be departing from the method of calculation which is still in use in at least one other jurisdiction. This change in legislation will introduce a simplified method for calculating overtime for commissioned workers which is similar to the method used in a number of other jurisdictions.

The previous method of calculation almost always resulted in an order for overtime and was viewed as unfair by employers. When this bill was reviewed by the Standing Committee on Social Programs, the Members expressed concern with another aspect of the bill which would have provided for the calculation of general holiday pay for commissioned workers based on the minimum wage. Later today, I will be moving amendments to the bill to address the concerns addressed by Members of that committee. Madam Chairperson, I will be available with my officials to answer any questions that there may be from yourself and Members.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Kakfwi. I now ask the Standing Committee on Social Programs which reviewed the bill to make its comments. Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Bill 19 provides the Northwest Territories minimum wage will be the baseline in calculating the overtime and holiday pay for commissioned workers. Previously, the act dictated the Labour Standards Board to calculate overtime in a manner that could be seen to be unfair to employers. This act will change that. The act will also have the effect of ensuring that all commissioned workers receive at least minimum wage for hours worked. The Standing Committee on Social Programs held a public hearing on Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Labour Standards Act, on June 28, 1999. In addition to the public hearing, the standing committee also solicited written responses from identified stakeholders.

Organized labour has responded that they have no major concerns with Bill 19. The standing committee did identify one concern with the original amendments contained in Bill 19. Under the current Labour Standards Act, pay for statutory public holiday is calculated by taking an average of the commissioned workers' daily pay for the previous four weeks. The proposed amendments contained in Bill 19 would base pay on whatever the current minimum wage is in the Northwest Territories. This would have the effect of analyzing commissioned workers who earn more than minimum wage to their commissions. The committee has proposed that the government prepare an amendment to continue the practise of basing statutory holiday pay on the daily average for the commissioned worker over the last four weeks. The average would not be less than the minimum wage for the Northwest Territories.

During the review of Bill 19, committee Members did note that it would be necessary to make major amendments to the Labour Standards Act in the near future as the act is old and out of date with practices in other Canadian jurisdictions. The Members of the Standing Committee on Social Programs had no other concerns with Bill 19. Individual Members may have questions or concerns as we proceed. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Morin. Would the Minister of Justice like to bring in witnesses? Is the committee agreed?

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Would the Sergeant-at-Arms please escort in the Minister's witnesses? Mr. Kakfwi, could you please introduce your witnesses for the record?

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Yes, on my right, Mr. Jerry Sutton, Assistant Deputy Minister of Justice. On my left is Ms. Rebecca Levine, legal counsel.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. General comments on the bill? Is the committee agreed to proceed to clause by clause, consideration of the bill?

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Labour Standards Act. Clause 1. Agreed?

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Clause 2. Agreed?

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Clause 3. Agreed?

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 41-13(7): To Amend Appendix B Of Bill 15
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Clause 4. Mr. Kakfwi.

Committee Motion 42-13(7): To Delete Clause 4 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 716

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chairperson, I would like to make a motion to delete. I move that clause 4 of Bill 19 be deleted.

Committee Motion 42-13(7): To Delete Clause 4 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Clause 4 is deleted. Clause 5. Agreed?

Committee Motion 42-13(7): To Delete Clause 4 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 42-13(7): To Delete Clause 4 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Clause 6. Agreed?

Committee Motion 42-13(7): To Delete Clause 4 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 42-13(7): To Delete Clause 4 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 7. Agreed? Mr. Kakfwi.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

Stephen Kakfwi

Stephen Kakfwi Sahtu

Madam Chairperson, I move that clause 7 of Bill 19 be amended in proposed section 26.1 by striking out "Section 24" in that portion of subsection (1) preceding paragraph (A) and in that portion of subsection (2) preceding paragraph (A).

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? Motion is carried. Clause 7 as amended. Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Clause 8. Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. To the bill as a whole. Agreed? Mr. Morin.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

Don Morin Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. It is always good to compliment people when they take recommendations from the committee, and I would just like thank the Minister for doing an excellent job to bring in two amendments that were recommended by the committee. Thank you.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Morin. To the bill as a whole. Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Does the committee agree that Bill 19 is ready for third reading as amended?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Bill 19 is now ready for third reading as amended. Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Thank you, witnesses. Bill 20, Municipal Statutes Amendment Act. I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs to introduce the bill. Mr. Steen.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Madam Chairperson, Bill 20, Municipal Statutes Amendment Act, will give municipalities in the Northwest Territories the authority to enact bylaws to prohibit trespass within their boundaries. This law is consistent with the GNWT objective of building community capacity. Community governments have funding for bylaw enforcement through Municipal and Community Affairs Operating Assistance Transfers. The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs developed this amendment after consulting with the NWT Association of Municipalities which supported the proposal. This amendment meets the need that was identified in this Legislative Assembly. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Steen. I now call on the chairman on the standing committee that reviewed the bill. That would be the Resource Management Committee to make the committee's comments. Mr. Henry.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 717

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The Standing Committee on Infrastructure and Resource Development reviewed Bill 20, the Municipal Statutes Amendment Act, on June 28, 1999. The committee would like to thank the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs and his officials for presenting the bill.

Currently in the Northwest Territories, there is no offence of trespassing on the property of another, unless the trespass involves damage to property or theft, is done at residential premises at night or otherwise constitutes an offence under the Criminal Code of Canada.

This bill proposes to amend the Charter Communities Act, the Cities, Towns and Villages Act, and the Hamlets Act, to enable municipalities to make bylaws to prohibit trespassing on private or public property if the municipality considers it necessary.

The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs developed this bill at the request of the ordinary Members of the 13th Legislative Assembly after consultation with the Northwest Territories Association of Municipalities.

The committee expressed concern that most communities may not have the necessary resources to effectively enforce municipal trespassing legislation. The Minister replied that his department would provide assistance to communities to ensure trespass bylaws are reasonably enforced.

Further, the committee was concerned enforcement methodology may vary from community to community. Enforcement may be made by peace officers in some communities. In other communities, enforcement may be made by a representative of the property owner. The Minister replied that the department would provide guidelines to the communities to ensure enforcement methodology is consistent.

Finally, Committee Members expressed concern that the rights of claimant groups may be compromised by the proposed municipal trespass legislation. The Minister and his staff explained that the terms of any land claim agreements will always prevail over municipal or territorial legislation.

Madam Chairperson, following the committee's review, a motion was carried to report Bill 20, Municipal Statutes Amendment Act, to the Assembly as ready for the committee of the whole.

Additional comments or questions of Members may be posed as we proceed. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. I would now like to ask the Minister if he would like to bring witnesses.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

Vince Steen

Vince Steen Nunakput

Madam Chairperson, no, I do not believe there is much controversy here. I think it is a pretty straightforward bill.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. General comments on the bill. Mr. Henry.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

Seamus Henry Yellowknife South

Madam Chairperson, I too would like to, as mentioned in the report, compliment the Minister and the government for their responsiveness to the Ordinary Members bringing this type of legislation to reality. It will certainly bring a lot of certainty to people in the territories and municipalities also. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Henry. General comments. There are no further general comments. Is the committee agreed to proceed with clause by clause?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Bill 20, Municipal Statutes Amendment Act. Clause 1. Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 2. Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 3. Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Bill as a whole. Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Does the committee agree that Bill 20 is ready for third reading? Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Bill 20 is now ready for third reading. Thank you, Mr. Steen. What is the wish of the committee? Are you ready to proceed to Bill 24? Mr. Dent has suggested Bill 24. Is the committee agreed that we proceed to Bill 24, An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act? Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. I will ask Mr. Dent, as the Government House Leader, to present the bill. Thank you, Mr. Dent.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Madam Chairperson, on behalf of the Management and Services Board, I am pleased to introduce Bill 24, An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act. The purpose of this bill is relatively straightforward and I hope will be supported by all Members in this House. The present Acting Information and Privacy Commissioner has indicated that she has received a request for review which she is unable to handle because of a conflict. She would like to have this review transferred to another individual to handle, however, under the present wording of the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act, only the Commissioner can conduct a review. She cannot delegate this function to another.

Madam Chairperson, this bill proposes to allow for the appointment of a special Information and Privacy Commissioner to act in circumstances where the Information and Privacy Commissioner has determined that she cannot act in a particular matter. This bill would allow the Information and Privacy Commissioner to carry out her statutory functions while still providing for all reviews to be conducted by a commissioner. It provides her with the flexibility that she needs in order to do her job properly.

Madam Chairperson, the Information and Privacy Commissioner was consulted with respect to whether this bill solves the issue she brought to our attention, and she has indicated that she supports the passage of this bill.

Madam Chairperson, I am prepared to answer any questions that the committee Members may have about this bill. Thank you.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. I will ask the chairman of the Standing Committee on Government Operations to bring the committee's review of the bill. Mr. Erasmus.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The Standing Committee on Government Operations reviewed Bill 24, An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act at its meeting on July 29, 1999. The committee would like to thank the Honourable Charles Dent for presenting the bill and responding to the committee's questions.

Bill 24 would amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act to allow the Management and Services Board to appoint a special information and privacy commissioner where the commissioner has determined that he or she should not act in a particular matter. The Commissioner now has a conflict with respect to a review, and the act does not currently allow another individual to act on a single review in the Commissioner's place. The bill provides that the special commissioner will hold office until the conclusion of the matter for which he or she was appointed.

Madam Chairperson, the standing committee supports this amendment. Committee Members may have questions or comments on the bill as we proceed. This concludes the standing committee's comments on Bill 24, An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act. Thank you.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 718

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr.

Erasmus. Mr. Dent, would you like to bring witnesses?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

Charles Dent

Charles Dent Yellowknife Frame Lake

Madam Chairperson, I have witnesses available, but maybe we could see if Members have questions.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Is the committee agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. General comments on the bill by Members. No general comments? If there are no general comments, we will proceed to clause by clause. Bill 24, an Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act. Clause 1. Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed. Thank you. Clause 2. Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed. Thank you. The bill as a whole. Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed. Thank you. Does the committee agree that Bill 24 is ready for third reading? Agreed?

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed. Thank you. Bill 24 is now ready for third reading. Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Erasmus.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

Roy Erasmus Yellowknife North

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I move we report progress.

Committee Motion 43-13(7): To Amend Clause 7 Of Bill 19
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 719

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. The motion is in order. It is not debatable. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed to the motion? The motion is carried. Thank you. We will now rise and report progress.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 719

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

The House will come back to order. Good evening. We are on item 20, report of committee of the whole. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 719

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering committee report 2-13(7), Bill 15, Bill 19, Bill 20 and Bill 24. I would like to report progress with six motions being adopted, that committee report 2-13(7) is concluded, and Bill 20 and Bill 24 are ready for third reading and that Bill 15 and Bill 19 are ready for third reading as amended. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the committee of the whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole
Item 20: Report Of Committee Of The Whole

Page 719

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. The motion is seconded by Mr. Steen. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Item 21, third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk. Orders of the Day.

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 719

Clerk Of The House Mr. David Hamilton

Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of Caucus immediately after adjournment this evening. Orders of the day for Friday, July 30, 1999:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers' Statements

3. Members' Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Oral Questions

7. Written Questions

8. Returns to Written Questions

9. Replies to Opening Address

10. Petitions

11. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

12. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

13. Tabling of Documents

14. Notices of Motion

15. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

16. Motions

17. First Reading of Bills

- Bill 18, Loan Authorization Act, 1999-2000

18. Second Reading of Bills

19. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

- Tabled Document 31-13(7)

- Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Supplementary Retiring Allowances Act

- Bill 23, Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 2, 1999-2000

20. Report of Committee of the Whole

21. Third Reading of Bills

- Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act

- Bill 19, An Act to Amend the Labour Standards Act

- Bill 20, Municipal Statutes Amendment Act - Bill 24, An Act to Amend the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act

22. Orders of the Day

Item 22: Orders Of The Day
Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Page 720

The Speaker Samuel Gargan

Thank you. This House stands adjourned to Friday, July 30, at 10:00 a.m.

--ADJOURNMENT