Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, yes, they will be handled through the business plans.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. We are on page 8, Public Works and Services, operating expenditures.

Total department, $146,000, not previously authorized.

Page 9, Health and Social Services, operation expenditures, health insurance programs, not previously authorized, $3,409,000. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First, I would like to move that we extend hours to conclude consideration of Bill 12.

There is a motion on the floor to extend sitting hours to conclude this item. The motion is not debatable. All those in favour? Thank you. All those opposed? Thank you. The motion is carried. We will extend our sitting hours to conclude this bill. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have some questions about the transfer of program responsibility for indigent seniors and persons with disabilities to the Income Assistance Program under Education. As income support, as I understand it, is for productive choices. What kind of criteria will these folks be under? Is there going to be an expectation for indigent seniors that they have to make productive choices of some kind, such as seeking employment? Are they looking at payrolling these folks? Doing it just for the convenience of doing that? What benefit will there be to these particular concerned individuals? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, no. The program criteria does not change at all, so it does not affect them in that way. The purpose here is to deliver all of these programs through one window, but the criteria does not change.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My understanding was this service is currently provided by Health and Social Services and I believe through social workers. When you reach the age of indigent seniors or if you are a person with disabilities, you are in a different area of concern in regard to your needs. The relationship between your situation in life and income, as opposed to other folks who would qualify for income support and making the productive choices that Education, Culture and Employment can provide.

I am concerned you will see income support workers that are geared to deal with people capable of making productive choices. If there are other related issues, are they going to have to run back to see the social worker and go back and forth, as opposed to having a social worker be able to deal with the issues now and write the cheque for assistance if needed?

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Chairman, I will refer that to the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment.

Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if the Member could repeat his question. I believe it was, will the individual be required to go back to the social worker for approval? Perhaps I can get him to restate the question for me.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Miltenberger, could you clarify your question please?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The concern is, this move says it is going to make things more convenient with a one-window approach. My concern is, indigent seniors and disabled people have different needs and requirements than those who normally go through Education, Culture and Employment for productive choices and career issues, in addition to looking for possible income support.

You may be providing them with one window in terms of cutting the cheque, but there are usually other needs tied into the issue of income when you are looking at indigent seniors and persons with disabilities. There could be housing issues, there could be abuse issues, or other related issues. Are we in effect going to be forcing them, instead of being able to go to a social worker now and get that whole issue dealt with, have to go back and run over to Education to income support to see an income support worker, and somehow make their way across town to wherever the social worker is to deal with the other issues?

Then you get to the issue of coordination and the communication. How is that going to be, so that the indigent seniors and disabled people are not inconvenienced?

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The way it is done with the disabled at the moment is the way it will be done with indigent seniors, for example, because they are long-term care. The disabled, for example, we handle on an annual basis whereby there is no need to go back to the department on an ongoing basis.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you. Just a final clarification. There will be the capacity to payroll indigent seniors and persons with disabilities? The career development people will be briefed or trained as necessary to deal with this new client base that will come into their office? There is also the issue of somehow trying to decide on productive choices being an issue for indigent seniors or disabled, it will not be an issue? Thank you.