Thank you, Mr. Krutko. To the motion. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this motion. I think, as we saw in the House yesterday and through discussions today, it is obvious that the economic policy issues are ones that are very complex for all of us. When we were talking about a non-renewable resources policy, we also have to take into consideration the need for control of economic policy powers. We are pursuing advancing resource revenue from the federal government, and then at the same time yesterday, there was an economic round table that is being discussed. There is an economic strategy panel that is going to be producing a report very soon. We are also involved in an inter-governmental process where the resource revenue sharing is being discussed. I have a concern on this in that we may be just adding one more complication to the whole picture on economic policy strategy. It is obvious to me, Mr. Speaker, that this is an area we should really have a full in-depth discussion about where we are going with it. Maybe we should be keeping the control of decision making in this House.

I do not have a problem with the principle of the motion, Mr. Speaker. I do believe that review is a good thing and an audit is a good thing, but I am worried about the time that it is going to take as well. I think we are looking at a minimum of two years, and I am not sure if I want to leave the responsibility of making the kind of decisions that need to be made for two years, waiting for a comprehensive audit without us being able to provide a clear guideline or terms of reference as to exactly what it is we are looking for. I do not oppose the principle of the motion, but I am questioning the timing of this at the moment. Maybe we should have more time to talk about it. I am also worried about adding extra weight on a department that is faced with many issues at the moment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. To the motion. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak in favour of the motion. I, like the Minister responsible for Finance, do not believe in spending money creating bureaucracies. I would point out that I have never called for the splitting up of this department. Mr. Speaker, in both the 13th Assembly and the 14th Assembly, I have heard a number of Members around the table who are concerned about whether the department can achieve its sometimes conflicting goals between protection of the environment and encouragement of development. I have heard this not only from Members in this House, but also from constituents. Mr. Speaker, good government requires review. In fact, as the Minister responsible for Finance is probably aware, the Financial Management Board Secretariat has recently reorganized to decrease their ability to do audits for fraud, but to increase their ability to do performance audits. Obviously, this government already recognizes the need to do performance audits.

In this case, we have the ability to get outside advice from the auditor who currently audits the books of this government, which includes the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. This allows us to ask the auditor to also undertake a functional review. Does the department achieve what it sets out in its goals and objectives?

Mr. Speaker, when the auditor comes back with the recommendations which, as Ms. Lee pointed out, will not be quick, because typically a functional review takes a period of time for the auditor to undertake and an even longer time to report on. When those recommendations come back, the politicians in this House have to decide whether or not to accept those recommendations. Mr. Speaker, it is not something that automatically has to be accepted. It is still something that we, the politicians, would have to choose whether the recommendations fit what we wanted to see in terms of the accomplishments for the department.

Again, Mr. Speaker, knowing that this government has recognized the need to do functional audits and performance audits, and the fact that the Financial Management Board Secretariat has recently reorganized the audit bureau to ensure they can take on more of these audits, I would think that this government would welcome some outside assistance, bringing the assistance of the Auditor General to the table. After all, as I have said, this auditor already audits the books of this government. The auditor should be entirely aware of what is happening within the department on a fiscal basis. We are asking for an expansion of the review to recognize that what this government has said is one of its goals.

Mr. Speaker, I strongly believe we should get back into the practice of asking the Auditor General to do comprehensive audits of all of the departments on a rotating basis of this government.

As has been pointed out, the recommendations that came back from the last audit on the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs led to some observations where the department was doing a good job, and some observations where the department could improve. By and large, those recommendations were accepted. I believe the operations of the department have improved.

Mr. Speaker, I would strongly argue that by passing this motion, we are in fact moving our government along towards improving the delivery of services to the public in the North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. To the motion. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am listening with interest to the arguments that are being put forward with respect to this motion that has come to the floor for debate today.

Mr. Speaker, audits of departments can be good. I do not disagree with Mr. Dent's most recent comments about perhaps having a more comprehensive look at the operations of the government, and perhaps looking at other departments on a rotating basis.

However, I would like to point out that the Auditor General's office is very busy. I do not think this will be viewed as a priority. It will take some considerable amount of time. They do not have unlimited resources.

The previous speaker said that the audit by the Auditor General's office is at no cost to this government. That is also questionable. It would take, on the part of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development staff several thousand man-hours in order to provide the information required for the Auditor General's office to do the assessment.

I agree that the timing on this is off. The department is extremely busy right now. We are on the verge of a number of unique and extensive opportunities for Northerners to participate in various areas of development. I would say this would not be a good time to take the attention away from the limited resources of the department and spend a tremendous amount of time providing and compiling information for the Auditor General's office.

I also believe that the assessment of the working of the department is something we have the capability to look at within our government. On a more limited scale, it is possible to assess areas where there may need to be minor changes made. I am reluctant to see if we are talking about dividing this department up. I am reluctant to take that kind of decision away from this Assembly and go to outsiders and say what should we do? I believe it is, to a large extent, a political direction. I think this government should be able to take it if that is where they decide they want to go.

We have heard many comments made in this House over the last few days about costs of various departments, certainly the focus on the Department of the Executive. We have heard Members speak to the fact that this department would be better divided up again. That is a bit contradictory, considering you would be looking at more staff, more bureaucracy as Mr. Handley has said.

I have a problem with asking a question that we could answer ourselves. Also, asking a question which we may not have the financial resources to carry out at this time. I also have a problem distracting the employees from this department by providing comprehensive piles of information to the Auditor General's office at this time. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. To the motion. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am glad to be able to speak to this. I was part of the resource management committee several years ago which looked at and reviewed the amalgamation of these three departments. We spent a considerable amount of time and effort to look at this particular amalgamation. I believe there can always be improvements no matter where we look. We always have the ability to find a new way of doing things.

But I believe the department is doing the job that it was set out and structured to do. I believe it saved a lot of money, and that was one of the primary reasons for doing it at the time. We were under a tremendous crunch to start looking at cutting costs. We did that with a number of departments. It was not just Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development that was a part of that. Health and Social Services was done in the same fashion.

If that is the case, I appreciate what the Members are saying. Maybe it would be good to have an audit. But you have to remember that this is not done by people walking into your operation and no one is affected by it. Everybody is affected by that. We will have staff disrupted for long periods of time.

Those of us who have been in business, if you are ever audited by a federal auditor, you know darn well what kind of pressure it puts on you. It consumes a lot of people.

If you are just dealing with financial matters, it takes hours, days, even weeks to do a little business. I know, for I have been through it. So do not tell me that this is not going to cost the department or this government anything. It does. It consumes people's time, efforts, stress, et cetera.

If there was something wrong, fine. But I do not see a lot wrong. I can honestly say we can probably make improvements here and there. There is no doubt about that. But I feel the timing of this motion is premature. We have some developments happening here in the Territories, the diamond mine situation, oil and gas development, tourism, and other areas we want to concentrate on. Those are the issues that should be our priority.

I think there is an opportunity to make suggestions. We have a business plan process which Members can go through with their committee to review the financial situation of the department and review what is being spent. They have the opportunity to ask questions. We just went through an interim budget. You had a chance to really look at things. I am not sure it is all that profitable to go through this process, just so we can say thank you very much at the end of the day. To me, it is not worth it at this time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Minister Ootes. To the motion. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as we have heard, it has been past practice of Assemblies to request audits of departments. It only goes to show prudent management to review the process and previous decisions of government. I believe this is the time to do that. There is no better time than early in the life of a government to do such a review, especially since it was the largest amalgamation that this government has seen.

There have been many changes to the departments involved. There have been many policy changes. There will be no waiting for business as usual. We will continue doing the work of government, as good governments would, until this government deals with a report. The report would be reviewed by this government as a whole.

Yes, it might come up with some ideas as to how we can tweak the department to try and improve how we deliver the service to residents of the Northwest Territories. That is what we are here for.

I think we need to show we are being prudent in our management, to review what we do in the business of government. How do we deliver the service? We have heard around the table of all of the concern when it comes from private sector, hunters and trappers, the developers, of our role. This might just point out the fact that we can either come in tune with the aboriginal governments in certain ways, or come in tune with Ottawa. It might help our argument for the resource devolution even more.

I think it is something we need to look at positively. Mr. Speaker, this government has stated it will be open, accountable, and transparent. I must say that I am surprised that our Cabinet seems reluctant to show support for the motion. It is straightforward. It is operational. Even though the Minister responsible for Finance is talking about it costing dollars, the fact is the Auditor General will provide this service free of charge. If there is a follow-up action and some changes happen, it could save us even more money. I think the Finance Minister should be very happy about the fact that I will not hound him as much if he has more money.

Mr. Speaker, this motion is straightforward. It is prudent management. It is showing that, as a government early in its life, we are open to new ideas and a way of delivering service to our residents that is top quality. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am supporting the motion.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. To the motion. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, you may close the debate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will not go through the whole thing again, but I believe it is time to get on with business and to show the residents of the Northwest Territories that we are proactive and looking out for their best interest in how we deliver services and programs to the residents overall. With that, Mr. Speaker, I request a recorded vote.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The Member has requested a recorded vote. All those in favour, please stand.

Thank you. All those opposed, please stand.

Thank you. All those abstaining?

Thank you. The results of the recorded vote: eight in favour and eight opposed. The motion is tied. Under the rules of the Legislative Assembly, I am able to cast the deciding vote. I shall cast the deciding vote in favour of the no side.

-- Applause

The motion is therefore defeated.

-- Applause

Order, please. Order. Item 16, motions. The Chair recognizes the honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Order please. Order. The motion is in order. To the motion. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I quote:

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience, and should act toward one another in the spirit of brotherhood."

Mr. Speaker, these are the opening words of the United Nations universal declaration of human rights created in 1948. Mr. Speaker, it is our duty to reflect in the laws of our country and the Northwest Territories the principles expressed in these words.

However, Mr. Speaker, our current legislation does not go far enough. Because of that, the courts have found, that this government is subject to the Canadian Human Rights Act.

Mr. Speaker, our own Fair Practices Act is in many ways similar to a Human Rights Act, but it is deficient in certain areas. In the Northwest Territories, we need modern, comprehensive human rights legislation, including a tribunal process to ensure fair consideration of complaints.

Mr. Speaker, this new legislation must ensure that every resident of the Northwest Territories has equal rights and opportunities without discrimination, including discrimination resulting from sexual orientation.

Mr. Speaker, our legislation must also provide the means by which these rights may be enforced and protected. I believe that through consultation across the Northwest Territories and with proper cooperation between all parties, human rights legislation can be proposed that reflects the ideas of our northern society.

Mr. Speaker, unlike in 1984, I believe that this time we will be successful in bringing forth the Northwest Territories human rights act, one that protects and enforces the human rights of all our people.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is truly an honour and privilege to be the seconder for this motion early in my life as a politician. I think the motion itself very clearly lays out the rationale behind this legislation. I would certainly urge all of the Members to vote in favour of this motion.

Mr. Speaker, I do not have a lot to say, other than to read from the fact sheet provided by the Northwest Territories Women and Human Rights Group. It says, with respect to fairness and respect:

"We also want to be treated fairly and with respect. Discrimination means being treated unfairly or pre-judged because of our sex, race, age, religion, language, disability or where we come from. Or maybe because of our income level, marital status, political beliefs, or sexual orientation. Discrimination is a violation of every person's basic right to be treated fairly and with respect."

On the question as to whether this affects aboriginal rights, the fact sheet says:

"Respecting human rights does not take away from special rights that some people have. Aboriginal people have aboriginal rights to the land, self-government and to services guaranteed through treaties and land-claim settlements. Human rights laws can complement aboriginal rights by helping any individual who is being discriminated against because of their race, sex or other factors."

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to add that this was one of the most commonly raised issues in my constituency during my election. The second point I would like to add is that I do not believe establishing a human rights act in our territory creates any new human rights. I believe we already have these rights under the Canadian Human Rights Act. This simply brings the human rights legislation into our home, so we have control over how it is governed, we have control over who sits on the commission and who is appointed to that commission. I urge the Members here to vote in favour of it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Lee. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed, please signify. All those abstaining? No abstentions. The motion is carried.

-- Applause

Item 16, motions. Item 17, first reading of bills. Item 18, second reading of bills. Item 19, consideration in committee of the whole of bills and other matters, Minister's Statement 1-14(2): Sessional Statement, Tabled Document 14-14(2), "Our Communities, Our Decisions: Let's Get on With It!", Final Report of the Minister's Forum on Health and Social Services, Bill 1, An Act to Amend the Education Act, Bill 3, An Act to Amend the Financial Administration Act, Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Student Financial Assistance Act, Bill 5, An Act to Amend the Motor Vehicles Act, Bill 7, An Act to Amend the Workers' Compensation Act.

By the authority given the Speaker by Motion 13-14(2), the committee of the whole may sit past adjournment until it is prepared to report. Item 19, committee of the whole, with Mr. Krutko in the Chair.

I would like to call the committee to order. We have several items to deal with. I would like to ask for direction. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Dent.