Thank you, Mr. Bell. Item 7, written questions. Item 8, returns to written questions. Item 9, replies to opening address. Item 10, petitions. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a report from the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight on our Priorities and Objectives Setting Workshop.

Mr. Speaker, on March 15, 2000, the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight participated in a Priorities and Objectives Setting Workshop. The workshop was a follow-up meeting to the committee's Operational Planning Workshop held on February 18 and 19, 2000. The purpose of our workshop was to identify the short, medium and long-term goals the committee wishes to pursue during the life of the 14th Legislative Assembly. Members had many topics of consideration that they felt should be addressed over the next four years. During the workshop, the committee was cognizant of the mandates of the Standing Committee on Social Programs and the Standing Committee on Governance and Economic Development, and refrained from encroaching on these mandates.

Mr. Speaker, at the end of the workshop, the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight had 13 broad goals. These are only our initial goals and we know that they are not static. The committee will continuously refine them to meet the changing needs of Northerners.

Our goals are:

• • to achieve progress and constitutional and electoral reform;
• • to advocate for the rights of the public and those needing a voice in dealing with government;
• • a public service that is representative of the population it serves and is treated fairly and managed effectively;
• • a more effective government organization, structure and operations;
• • survival of the official aboriginal languages;
• • a cohesive and current workers' compensation system and the associated governing authorities to meet the changing environments;
• • an energy strategy to address the shifting Northwest Territories environment and relevant outside influences;
• • a strategy for sharing control of and responsibility for Northern resources; and
• • to maximize the benefits of recreational activities and to foster the positive affect that recreation has on community health and well-being.

Mr. Speaker, the ongoing goals of our committee that are explicitly included in our mandate include:

• • the comprehensive overview of the Government of the Northwest Territories' budget and fiscal framework;
• • the consideration of budgets and the financial management of the Northwest Territories Workers' Compensation Board, the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, and other similar government boards and agencies;
• • examination of the Auditor General reports; and
• • coordination of House business scheduling and planning in cooperation with Cabinet.

Mr. Speaker, there is a great deal of work to be done by the committee in order to fulfill our goals. We have a full agenda before us and look forward to our future dealings with the government in achieving these goals.

Mr. Speaker, that concludes Committee Report 5-14(2), Report of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight on our Priorities and Objectives Setting Workshop. Mr. Speaker, I move that Committee Report 5-14(2) be received and adopted.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The motion is in order. To the motion. Question has been called. All those in favour? Thank you. All those opposed? The motion is carried. Item 11, reports of standing and special committees. Item 12, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Item 13, tabling of documents. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have two documents I wish to table today.

First, I wish to table the following document entitled Aurora Fund 1996 Financial Statements for the Year Ending June 1999.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Item 13, tabling of documents. The House will recess for fifteen minutes.

-- Break

The House will come back to order. Item 13, tabling of documents. Item 14, notices of motion. Item 15, notices of motion for the first reading of bills. Item 16, motions. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS it has been four years since the amalgamation of the Departments of Renewable Resources, Economic Development and Tourism, and Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, in an effort to realize program efficiencies and expenditure reductions;

AND WHEREAS the mandate of the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development includes responsibility for both environmental protection and economic development;

AND WHEREAS there exists both a perceived and real potential for conflict in striving to achieve objectives in these two program areas;

AND WHEREAS it is desirable to determine the extent to which the department is fulfilling its broad mandate in achieving the projected program efficiencies;

NOW, THEREFORE, I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, that the Legislative Assembly request the Auditor General of Canada to undertake a comprehensive audit of the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development and report thereon to the Legislative Assembly;

AND FURTHER that the Assembly request the Auditor General to complete this comprehensive audit as expeditiously as possible.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The motion is in order. To the motion. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe it is important to address this motion. While audits are necessary in the part of ensuring that governments always operate and manage their resources and deliver services and programs in the best way possible, it is also important to know the context in which they should be used. In short, Mr. Speaker, the motion is addressing two things.

First, we are asking someone from outside the jurisdiction of the Government of the Northwest Territories to look at the way we structure ourselves, the way we govern ourselves, and give us advice on whether or not we are doing it properly and in the best way possible. Mr. Speaker, I say categorically, this is a political decision. It was a political decision some years ago when we decided to take three departments and form one department out of them. It was a political decision made primarily to address the serious fiscal situation we were in at that time, which is not much different from the situation we face today.

It begs the question, can we afford to ask a question? Are we better off to set up another department where we are being currently served, I would say well served, by one department? Who wants to make the motion that will suggest we want to create yet another department, when we are creating this message that we have very few dollars, very few resources to deliver programs and services? That we are trying to convince Ottawa that we are in dire fiscal circumstances and we need special and urgent attention? I would say we cannot afford to ask the question, but it must be asked.

There is not much sense in asking an auditor to do things that we should address ourselves right here in this Legislative Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to point out, as I said yesterday and the day before, the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development has managed its mandate and delivered its programs and services very well. The results are there. I have outlined the results. It is not like we have not produced anything. We have.

We have delivered things like the Protected Area Strategy. We have delivered on commitments to develop a secondary diamond industry. We are now moving to foster the initial activities of oil and gas companies moving back into the Territories. There is a whole range of initiatives we have done, managed, and brought to the substantial progress stage.

What compels the Members to ask this question? That is not clear to me, but I would say the auditor would find no substance whatsoever in this motion to suggest that he is being asked to do something on a serious basis. There is no substance provided. Is there a problem with the way we do our work? It has not been mentioned. There is no detail. There is no suggestion. It is simply a question asked. The answer could very well be, if you would like, as Members of the Legislative Assembly, to set up two departments. That is your prerogative. I think that is what the auditor would say. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. To the motion. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister's questions are very well framed, as was his spirited and vigorous defense of the department on the aspect of a perceived conflict in our committee of the whole yesterday afternoon.

My perspective, Mr. Speaker, is not that this is an attack on the philosophy of combining the mandates of those who protect and those who should promote our resources. Rather, it is a test of the success of that philosophy. I indicated in my remarks in committee of the whole that I believe it is a positive and proactive way of achieving better delivery of services.

The audit, Mr. Speaker, was called for as a test, as a review of the success and the progress of the department to date. It is certainly my hope that such a review would show where areas could be improved and where we can continue this very proactive and very positive effort.

I also appreciate the Minister's remarks about bringing someone in from the outside to have a look at this and tell us what our own business should be. The office of the Auditor General has done very good work for this government. It is perceived, I think, or felt that their conduct of this audit would indeed be an objective one. They bring in a field of experience and a scope of knowledge from other jurisdictions that I believe could help us.

Another factor in this, Mr. Speaker, is that it has been the practice of the Auditor General to do a comprehensive audit of one of our departments on an annual basis. This is done, Mr. Speaker, at no charge to this government. Those are the justifications for proceeding with this audit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. To the motion. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to comment very briefly on the motion, in two respects. First, the financial one and then second, just on the functioning of the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development.

First of all, I do not have any problem with doing audits as long as we have a very clear purpose for doing the audits. I am sure the Auditor General has a very busy schedule and he is going to have the same kind of concern. If we are doing an audit, then we seriously want to make some changes. We want to do something differently.

In the case of the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, this department was only created in 1997. At that time, there was a lot of consultation that took place with environmental groups, with industry, with aboriginal groups, with government, and certainly a lot of consultation in this House. Many of these issues were dealt with then. How do we resolve issues from an environmental perspective and from a development perspective? At that time, it was only three years ago, after much discussion, there seemed to have been an agreement that this was a reasonable way to go.

In doing the amalgamation, there was $5 million saved upfront, basically by putting two departments together, and a little wee one called Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources. There was a $5 million saving. Then, part way through the process, there was an additional $5 million saving. This enabled $10 million to be saved by reducing these three departments and putting them into one. That is $10 million that then can be spent on housing, on education, or on other things that are a higher priority than building more bureaucracies.

I think it is important, given the messages we have heard ever since we have been here, about the need to have our priorities right. I just have trouble, in my mind, coming to grips with spending, maybe not $10 million, but spending a lot of money to create two departments now. I do not think we need two departments. If that is the objective, to try to create two, then we are treading into an area that just leads to more bureaucracy, more departments, and so on.

So that is a concern on the financial side. Let us keep our money in the areas that are of priority to us. On the financial side, let us not spend money creating bureaucracies.

Now, when it comes to working with environmental issues and development issues, I was the deputy minister responsible for Renewable Resources at a time when there were two other departments, Economic Development and Tourism, and Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources, whose focus was on development. Mine was on protection, on conservation and so on. It was not terribly functional. I found a lot of banging of heads, a lot of disagreements because, in the bureaucracy, you tended to have people spending their time taking positions. That is what happens when you separate these two issues.

Putting them together caused the people whose responsibility is development and production to also take into consideration environmental issues. It caused the environmental people and the conservation people to also take into consideration production issues. That side of it caused the department to be a much better functioning place.

We can go now and ask somebody from outside to come in, from the Auditor's office, to come and do a comprehensive audit. I do not know what he will measure it against. But as the Premier said, I think he will tell us to do whatever you want. You have two issues here. You could deal with them with one department. You could deal with them in two departments. You could deal with them in three departments, if you want. I am not sure we would really get that much further ahead.

I am afraid of where this may take us, though, particularly from a financial perspective, given the need to be tremendously careful with the limited resources we have here. I have a little bit of trouble understanding what the real purpose is here. What is the auditor going to measure it against? That is something we have to measure here, not an auditor. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. To the motion. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Premier mentioned in this House, I think it was yesterday, when he was describing how the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, how a political decision was made three years ago to smash, as he said, three departments together. It was clearly a political decision. That was three years ago.

We are in the business of trying to provide good government and what we are looking at is a program review of what was a major amalgamation. Since I have been in the 14th Assembly, the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development has been under considerable amount of discussion as to what it is doing. Should it be split, should it not be split? Should programs be done a certain way or not done a certain way?

But this is not a political review. We are not asking, as far as I know, and I am not asking the Auditor General to tell us if we should split this department again. What I am asking or hoping the auditor will tell us, as he did in the 13th Assembly when we asked for an audit of the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, was to do a program review, which they did. They came back with a whole number of very good recommendations, the majority of which were acted on. Recommendations the department responded to and the committee had a chance to look at. I believe we improved the service of that department as a result. This is not something that should be feared. This is something we should be welcoming as a way to improve how we do business for the people of the Northwest Territories.

I recognize the Premier has been the Minister responsible for this department since its inception and the Minister responsible for Finance was the former deputy, and they put a lot of effort into making this department work. Now it is time, as good business tells us to do, to take a look at whether or not it was the right decision. Are things working absolutely perfectly as they would tell us, or are there ways we can improve service to our people? Mr. Speaker, that is the way I am approaching this.

I have no desire to see this department split at this point, but it has been a subject of discussion. I would ask the Members of Cabinet not to be alarmed. What we are practicing is good business, good government and trying to find out, from a program point of view, it there are improvements and how well things are working. Maybe they will tell us it is absolutely in tip top condition and there is no room for improvement. Then we will be sitting here heaping kudos and throwing rose petals at the feet of Cabinet for the good management of that department.

But I look forward to this and I think it is important. The Auditor General will do it. The Auditor General has a long history in the North, as Mr. Braden indicated, and there is no cost to this government. We should be laying out the departments we want to see evaluated over the next four years, to give us, as legislators, guidance. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. To the motion. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We were talking about this audit. I believe we are talking about looking at the programs and services, looking at the customers that are affected and seeing if these customers are getting what they should be getting out of the various programs and services.

It is not at all our intention to be on a witch hunt. I do not think that is the intention of the Ordinary Members. No one is trying to criticize either the Minister or the former deputy for how this department was amalgamated. I think it is good practice to routinely take a look at our departments to see if things are working, see if the customers are satisfied and move from there.

As the Premier suggests, we have delivered the goods. It is not like we have not done a lot of good things. I would agree with him. I think it is not a bad practice to take a look at all of our departments, see how they operate, see what they are doing and see where we could make improvements.

Mr. Handley mentioned that by amalgamating these departments, we were able to save $5 million and then $10 million. I think that was a great idea and it certainly seems to have made sense. But I think we should look at how we do business and see if there are other adjustments that could be made to improve things.

I suggested the possible creation of a department of industry. That may be something that will be suggested down the road, or it may not. This is just something I have floated out there for discussion. Other Members have discussed it as well.

As Mr. Handley mentioned, to simply create bureaucracy is not the intention or the goal here. Other departments could possibly be reorganized and the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development could be changed to incorporate different things. I think structural things are something we should look at. We have to ask the people of the Northwest Territories if they are happy with the service from the programs and services. I think that is all we are asking this auditor to do.

As Mr. Kakfwi mentioned, we need a good reason to be doing something like this because it is going to be expensive. I think we are putting the cart before the horse. We are not talking about splitting up departments. We are talking about an audit by the Auditor General, an audit that will not cost this government a cent. I think it is good practice. We have discussed in committee that it may be a good idea to audit one department a year. I think this is simply the first one that has come to the forefront and that is really where we are going with this. Again, this is not intended to be a witch hunt. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. To the motion. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. To the motion. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.