Oh God, may your spirit and guidance be in us as we work for the benefit of all our people, for peace and justice in our land and for constant recognition of the dignity and aspirations of those whom we serve. Amen.

Good afternoon, colleagues. I would like to make a little statement about Seniors Week. As a "senior" Member, or at least the eldest MLA present in the House, I would like to take a moment to acknowledge Senior Citizens Week. June 18 to 24, 2000, has been proclaimed Senior Citizens Week by the Honourable Vince Steen, Minister responsible for Seniors.

It is a time to recognize and honour seniors in the Northwest Territories and all over. I would like the contributions of seniors and elders to be acknowledged and to promote positive attitudes towards seniors and elders.

Activities for Seniors Week will be held throughout the Northwest Territories this week. I encourage everyone to get involved in Seniors Week events in their community. Elders are one of our most valuable resources. Let us celebrate them.

-- Applause

Orders of the day. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today as the chair for the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight. Mr. Speaker, members of the committee are concerned about how human resources functions are being undertaken in our government. We will concentrate on this issue today during Members' statements and question period.

Mr. Speaker, we need a representative workforce where our employees are treated fairly and have the opportunity for advancement. The break-up of the Department of Personnel was sold in 1992-93 as a cost-saving measure. However, indications are that we are probably spending more today on personnel functions than we were then.

There has apparently been a 21 percent increase in human resource positions, from 114 in 1991 to 138 in March of 2000. At the same time, there has been a 43 percent decrease in the number of GNWT employees. Our employees have gone down from 6,133 to 3,481 over that same period of time. This means that the Government of the Northwest Territories is spending more money providing services to staff. To do that, we have to be taking money out of programs and services, where it could otherwise be spent.

Mr. Speaker, we are concerned the departments are not following staffing policies and guidelines in the recruitment process, and that there is no monitoring of the process by the government.

We believe that an independent agency may be the only way to ensure hiring practices are fair throughout the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, we are concerned with the lack of commitment and progress in affirmative action hiring. Mr. Speaker, aboriginal representation in the GNWT has not increased in the last five years. Aboriginal representation in management has increased only marginally. There is obviously a need for better coordination of public service career training funding with the government departments. A clear indication of this is that this government has lapsed almost $1 million over the past three years in public service career training, money that could have been used to train and promote affirmative action candidates in the Government of the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, to deal with all of these concerns, we need a Public Service Commission. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, over the past decade, there have been tremendous changes in the government's approach to the delivery of human resource services.

In the early 1990s, all personnel were centralized in one department. A few departments had individuals who assisted with human resource planning, but not many. This was a time when the government was involved in the equal-pay study, before the pay equity court case, and the GHRS, the predecessor to PeopleSoft, was developed in-house.

In 1993, the government began to dismantle Personnel, moving functions like benefits, labour relations and job evaluation to the Financial Management Board Secretariat. In early 1996, staffing and benefits were transferred to departments, along with the staff to do the work. Regional offices were dissolved. Over the next two years, many responsibilities were also transferred to deputy ministers and departments in areas like labour relations.

In 1998, the new Hay system for evaluating jobs was implemented, along with giving responsibilities for evaluation to departments. In 1998, work began on the much vaunted PeopleSoft system, which was implemented in 1999.

In 1998, a new unit in the Executive was created, corporate human resource services, which has central human resource responsibilities along with the Financial Management Board Secretariat. Mr. Speaker, given all the change, it makes sense that the government would want to do an objective evaluation to determine what is working and what is not.

We have to look at the big picture and all the parts. Are there enough checks and balances in place to ensure departments are following government human resource policy? After 11 years, what needs to be done to change the Affirmative Action Policy, a policy which has seen only a two percent, a paltry, meagre two percent increase in aboriginal participation in the GNWT.

With PeopleSoft now up and running, and significantly over-budget, I might add, is an evaluation of the start-up in order? How is it working? Is the current delivery system working as well outside of Yellowknife as the old system of regional personnel officers used to? Who is responsible for tracking and recording our human resource practices? Who is coordinating important human resource practices like performance appraisals, which, government-wide, is a very dismal figure?

Performance appraisal completion rates, exit interviews...has decentralization worked for everything? Are there areas where central expertise and advice would be better served? Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The Member for Thebacha is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Why does the government keep leaving the health and social services and education boards out of human resource reporting when they represent two of our largest groups of employees? Why does it take more human resource staff now, including more managers, to deliver the same programs to fewer people than it did ten years ago?

I hope the government will give serious consideration to a review of its human resource delivery system and practices, and come out with a comprehensive, government-wide human resource strategy. Saying people are too busy is not an excuse. Perhaps a review would find areas where time and money could be better spent. If people, Mr. Speaker, are truly our most important resource, then they should be worth the time to make sure we are supporting them in the best possible way.

There are two things that we need: a comprehensive human resource strategy and an independent agency to oversee the government's human resource strategy. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Towards a Better Tomorrow, the vision document of this Assembly, acknowledges the key role and the value of human resources in the Northwest Territories in the development of this new Territory as we seek to realize the potential of our great land.

For the Government of the Northwest Territories, our direct instrument in carrying out our policies and projects, implementing laws and regulations, is the public service of the Northwest Territories.

There are some 3,000 government positions representing more than seven percent of the population of public policy for our government. In reviewing Towards a Better Tomorrow, I believe a higher profile, greater credibility and recognition should be attached to the role of the public service.

As a result of the division of the Territories, the government's position of severe financial restraint in the past few years, decentralization and increased expectations of the public and politicians, has resulted in dramatic and often unsettling impacts on the public service.

The Auditor General of Canada has recently observed on the negative impact of the loss of senior, long-term public servants in the federal government. Closer to home, the Northwest Territories public service has suffered similar losses of senior, long-term management employees, eroding our corporate memory and contributing to further instability and decreased productivity. The ever-present uncertainty of job cuts as a result of the need to find additional budget reductions by departments is causing a further decline in morale and productivity.

Mr. Speaker, I believe the Northwest Territories offers exciting new employment opportunities in the private and aboriginal organization sectors. This further adds to the difficulty for our public service to attract qualified and experienced employees. The southern employment situation with expanding economies will see further difficulty for us in attracting much-needed health care and other qualified professionals to our Territory. There are a number of aspects of the public service which are of concern to me. Principally, I lend my support to the concept of a Public Service Commission or labour relations board.

In conclusion, I wish to acknowledge the tremendous support and dedication, Mr. Speaker, of the public service of this government to the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

-- Applause

Merci beaucoup, Mr. Braden. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my statement today concerns affirmative action. Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories identifies three groups of people for preference in employment, training and promotion under the Affirmative Action Policy. Aboriginal persons are priority one.

Mr. Speaker, the current Affirmative Action Policy was implemented in 1989 when it replaced the Northern Hiring Policy. Yet today, 11 years later, the aboriginal people occupy only 15 percent of the management positions and overall 31 percent. Since 1991, there has been only a two percent increase in aboriginal representation within the Government of the Northwest Territories' workforce.

When the decision was made to dissolve the Department of Personnel, the onus was placed on each department to achieve results. This did not seem to work as we have only seen minimal results to-date.

Mr. Speaker, as a Member representing a riding of mostly aboriginal people, this is of great concern to me. It seems this government would like us to believe that there are few qualified aboriginals out there and there is stiff competition from diamond and oil companies. I also hear that there are very few Northerners with proper credentials. I cannot accept those arguments. I personally know of many people here in Yellowknife and in the communities with degrees and college diplomas who cannot get jobs in the GNWT.

Mr. Speaker, when we look at the results of the Affirmative Action Policy, we all have to agree that it has not done what it was supposed to. Is it because the program is not being implemented properly? Is it because there is no one department overseeing this program? Mr. Speaker, there are probably many reasons why this program is not working. However, I do not believe that the policy in itself is the problem.

This government has to take a serious look at the barriers to allowing this program to work. We also have to look at ways to complement this program. In other jurisdictions, they have actively gone out and selected individuals for management positions. By targeting individuals to take job training and instruction, they have helped them move into management positions. These may be possible solutions.

In any case, Mr. Speaker, improvement in the area of increasing the representation of target groups in the public service is something that cannot come soon enough. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take the opportunity to speak about one of the most controversial issues of the day, that being the Affirmative Action Policy, not the hotel tax.

Right off the bat, Mr. Speaker, I can advise you that this is one of the most frequently raised issues an MLA like myself has to address on a daily basis. And we have all heard the arguments on both sides, Mr. Speaker. There are some who truly believe that such a policy is merely an instrument of reverse discrimination, favouring one group over another. I appreciate where they may be coming from.

At the same time, Mr. Speaker, I personally know of many people, in and out of my constituency, who even though they are amply qualified, continue to be discriminated against in their pursuit of employment with the GNWT. Many of them, I might add, Mr. Speaker, are aboriginal people.

The immutable fact is that all forms of discrimination are based on factors no one can change, whether it be gender, ancestry, race, age, disability, et cetera. The list goes on.

My response to this is always that the purpose of the Affirmative Action Policy is to simply ensure that a public body like the GNWT reflects the true picture of the people it serves. I might also add, Mr. Speaker, that this is absolutely in mind with the basic Canadian principle entrenched in the Charter of Rights, under section 15(2).

I have to believe that if we go deep into it, the problem most people have with an Affirmative Action Policy is certainly not with its underlying principles of equality and fairness, but how well the policy is applied in practice. For this reason, Mr. Speaker, if the government is truly committed to this policy and these basic principles, it is crucial that it takes a lead role in being ever so vigilant about all aspects of this policy. At minimum, there must be an effective mechanism in place for independent and fair hearing to all of those who feel they have been unfairly treated under the policy.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I give notice to the responsible Minister that I will be pursuing this further with questions. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, regarding the comments of my colleagues, I feel it is important that this government take these points seriously, especially in the area of affirmative action, ensuring we meet those goals.

One of the big arguments we hear from the government is that people do not have the training to take on the area of management. Yet, Mr. Speaker, in the 1999-2000 fiscal year budget, there was $619,000 identified for public service training to allow aboriginal people within government to take training so they can get the senior management jobs.

Mr. Speaker, I find it appalling that in relation to the $619,000 that was identified $403,000 of that money was lapsed. That is uncalled for, especially when the argument we are hearing from government is that people are under-trained and they do not have the expertise. I find it hard to sit here and say we are not making an effort to meet those goals we have set, which is a policy of this government, and has been here for several years. This issue has been around for as long as I can remember. I believe that something has to be done. We cannot allow dollars such as this to be lapsed, which could be better spent ensuring aboriginal people in government receive training and have the ability to move up the ladder so they can take on positions in senior management in the upper branch of government.

Mr. Speaker, I will be asking questions to the appropriate Minister on this matter. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, management of human resources has been a thorn in the side of this government and of governments before. An example is the Affirmative Action Policy. Is it working across government departments? I would say no, Mr. Speaker.

An example is the appeals that are handled by this government. I am aware that 28 percent of the appeals that have been filed have been successful. To me, that shows a sign that in fact, our system is not working.

Mr. Speaker, it is time for a positive change. This government has stated that it will do things differently. It has an opportunity now to walk the talk. Mr. Speaker, if there was a Public Service Commission put in place by this government, I think initially we would see an increase in the appeals, because employees would have more trust in that system. On top of that, I think in the long run it would improve the morale of our employees in the government. This government has made points of the fact that we have to improve on the treatment of our employees. I believe this is an opportunity to walk the talk, as we say, to make good with our employees.

We will not have many opportunities. The time is short, Mr. Speaker, to be able to move forward and make positive changes in the short time span that we have in the 14th Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, I will be following up with questions in the area of appeals. Hopefully, the government will take action and institute a Public Service Commission that employees can feel it is for them and it is at arms length from this government. It will start showing where this government can improve on dealing with its employees. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to talk today about what I perceive is a need for a Public Service Commission in the GNWT. I recently had a constituent come into my office and talk to me about a situation in which she felt she was not treated fairly in a competition. She was a P1. She had numerous years of management experience with this government. She had been out of the workforce for a year. She sought out a competition just like a job she had done in the past. She did not even make the short list.

She was very upset about this and asked my advice as to what I felt she should do. In clear conscience, I could not suggest that she grieve the situation. I think this was the way she felt as well. She was very worried about the possibility of being blacklisted by the department. The avenue for grievance seemed to be to go back to the very same people who did not include her in the short list. Clearly, this was not a workable situation, Mr. Speaker.

I think other Members in this House have all had similar situations. I think we know it is a real problem. As I was going door to door during the campaign, one of the issues that was raised and one of the suggestions that was made to me by some constituents was to set up a Public Service Commission reporting to the Legislative Assembly, not to the government. It would create a needed distance between politicians and public servants, reinforce hiring on the basis of merit, yet still allow for the diversity that we need here in the North. It would also ensure that government follows its own employment and hiring policy.

Mr. Speaker, I believe we are the only jurisdiction in Canada, except for Nunavut, that does not have a Public Service Commission. The federal government has one. The provinces have one as well. Every time we see a situation like this where we seem to be the only jurisdiction without something, we have to ask ourselves if we are breaking trail or if we are a jurisdiction that does not need to protect its public service. I think the answer is no, Mr. Speaker.

The Public Service Commission for the federal government has a quasi-judicial authority to hear and investigate staffing appeals and is accountable to Parliament, not a Minister. The independence of the PSC from political interference was the driving force for the creation of the PSC. The commission administers the provisions of the Public Service Employment Act, governing the political rights of public servants without fear or reprisal, Mr. Speaker.

At the appropriate time today, I will have questions for the Minister on a Public Service Commission. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to raise an issue in this House today that is affecting a number of my constituents. The issue, Mr. Speaker, concerns the young offenders' facility in Hay River and how it is being staffed.

This government-run facility is recognized as needing a certain number of full-time jobs. However, half of these positions are being filled with part-time employees. For a number of years, the administration has elected to fill these positions with casual employees. I assume, Mr. Speaker, that this is happening under the direction of this government.

This situation does nothing as far as giving employees job security and affecting their ability to advance in their chosen field, to say nothing of workplace morale.

Mr. Speaker, this situation has been compounded by recent staffing changes that have taken place. Employees who have been working as full-time casual have had their job classification changed and have been replaced with students who have very little training.

I feel this creates an unsafe practice. Indeed, it sets up the possibility of instances that could have very serious consequences. Mr. Speaker, if this government can hire negotiators for indefinite periods of time, even when it is unknown whether they will be needed more than two or three times a year, surely we can give employees job security by filling full-time positions with full-time employees. At the appropriate time, I will be asking the Minister some questions in this area. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the context of your opening statement, and in recognition of this being Seniors Week across the Northwest Territories, I would like to take this opportunity to wish all of our seniors a happy and spirited week, including our guests in the gallery this afternoon.

Today, Mr. Speaker, there are four seniors who I want to say a special hello to, three of whom are currently in Stanton Regional Hospital. One is a dear friend of mine, Mr. Pete Fraser, former Member of this Legislative Assembly. I had a chance to meet with Pete last evening, where we shared a few laughs and discussed some of the happenings in our Legislature.

The second senior who I would like to speak about and who I have just met is Ms. Elizabeth Giroux, mother of Edith Mack, the secretary to our honourable Minister responsible for Justice, Mr. Antoine.

Thirdly is a lady who is currently in the Saint Therese Hospital in Fort Vermilion, Alberta, but takes an avid interest in our daily proceedings. On behalf of the residents of the Mackenzie Delta I want to wish Lena Malegana all of the best and a happy recovery.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I want to say another special hello to my aunt, Dolly McLeod who is also resting and recovering in Stanton Regional Hospital. She informed me last night that she watches us with interest during our daily deliberations here in the House. As you know, Mrs. McLeod spends the majority of her life maintaining our traditional bush lifestyle approximately 40 miles southwest of Aklavik.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I want to wish all of the seniors who are watching all the best in health and happiness. I cannot go without saying hello to a very special friend; my most sincere wishes to Cece McCauley, who is a great supporter of mine. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Allen. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen, and welcome to the Assembly. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am proud to stand today and recognize some of the members of the Northwest Territories Seniors Society. My colleague, Mr. Bell, will as well recognize some of them with the agreement of the Chair. I would like to recognize, to start with, a constituent and friend, Mrs. Beatrice Campbell, who is the president; Laura Lennie from Tulita who is the first vice-president; Lloyd Brunes from Hay River, second vice-president; Bob Spence from Yellowknife, who is the treasurer; Dusty Miller from Yellowknife, who is the secretary; and Esther Braden, from Yellowknife, who is the past-president. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to recognize Bill Lafferty from Fort Simpson, a director and former MLA; Ellen Smith from Inuvik, a director; Helen Gruben from Tuktoyuktuk, a director; Don Hunter from Yellowknife, also a director; and Barb Hood, the executive director.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize someone from Fort McPherson, Mrs. Ellen Smith. Welcome.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I take the privilege and the honour of recognizing Mrs. Helen Gruben, who is the former chair of the Mackenzie Delta- Beaufort Regional Conference back in the mid-80s to the 90s. Thank you.

Welcome all visitors. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. I would like to welcome a Tulita elder, Mrs. Laura Lennie from Tulita. Thank you.

-- Applause

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I would like to take this opportunity to welcome Andre Legare, consilliere principale de Matrie des politiques.

-- Applause

Mr. Legare helps me translate English to French sometimes. Thank you. Welcome everyone, particularly the seniors, to this Assembly. Welcome, Mr. Lafferty. It is like coming home, isn't it?

-- Laughter

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today relates to human resource functions in the Government of the Northwest Territories and is addressed to Premier Kakfwi.

Mr. Speaker, I am concerned about the number of people in various departments, boards and agencies now responsible for human resources, and how they can possibly bring a cohesive approach to the job. I understand that in 1991-92 there were 114 positions that had a human resource function. These positions included those working for departments, boards and agencies, and covered the whole Territory, pre-division.

We are now told that as of March this year, there were 138 people involved in the delivery of human resource functions. While this growth has taken place, our Territory has shrunk in physical size and so has the civil service. In fact, the civil service has shrunk by 43 percent.

Mr. Speaker, this growth has had no coordination so there is no government-wide accountability for human resource functions. With each department or agency now responsible for human resources, who in government has the overall responsibility for monitoring personnel and hiring practices?

Mr. Speaker, my first question, is the Premier aware of the inefficiency that has been created since the breakup of the Department of Personnel with more people now involved in providing human resource functions than we had for a bigger government nine years ago?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am aware that since I first became involved in government in 1987 there was general dissatisfaction with the apparent inability of government to meet targets set at the political level and the level of resources required in order to try to meet the targets.

In response to the Member's question, there seems to be a need to get a collective agreement on how to meet the targets and the goals set at the political level so there is a concerted effort made to proceed. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not sure if the Minister agreed, or even if he was aware of the inefficiency, but I will move on to another question. With the deputy ministers now responsible for monitoring and enforcing human resource policy in their departments, who is responsible for ensuring that practices are fair and consistent government-wide?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe it is the Cabinet that is ultimately responsible for the management and overall coordination for the departments and the hiring policies of this government. Ultimately, it is the Ministers collectively that bear that responsibility. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Mr. Dent, supplementary.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to assume that if it is the Ministers collectively, then that flows up to the Premier, who would then, I hope, be ultimately responsible.

Mr. Speaker, in 1997, the Government Operations Committee recommended that the GNWT develop clear accountability measures across departments. That means government-wide. What measures has the government taken since then to implement standardized accountability measures that would hold Ministers and deputy ministers accountable in the area of human resource management?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Premier Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am not aware of exactly what has been done. I do know that as the Premier I am concerned that there should be some overall coordination of how we hire staff and how we work to meet targets set.

For instance, if there is an agreement that there should be a certain percentage within management at the headquarters level of aboriginal people and women, at a senior management level, then we need some discussion with the Members of the Legislature and perhaps a committee to decide how to set targets and meet them. That is, a discussion on how measurable targets can be set.

I know we have sent some suggestions to the senior management over the years and asked that more aboriginal and more women be hired to senior management across the departments as a whole. However, there is no clear measurable way by which to make this government, Ministers and deputy ministers accountable for not meeting those targets. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Final supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Premier has advised us that Ministers collectively have responsibility, and he has just told us that there does not seem to be a means to hold the Ministers accountable. I would just like to confirm that. Can the Premier advise me, using the present human resource accountability scenario, where Ministers are collectively responsible for their departments in human resources, are there any repercussions for a Minister or deputy minister who is found to be derelict in their responsibility for human resources within their department?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have confidence in all of our deputy ministers and senior management within the government. Generally, we have set out for them to carry on the job of managing their respective departments within the policies and guidelines set out by this government. I think that the point that should be made is we have, I think, a need to find some way to be proactive in promoting the hiring of Northerners, aboriginal people and particularly women within the Government of the Northwest Territories.

I believe that there needs to be a review of how we will try to do that, to obtain a collective agreement with Members of this Legislature on how we can best proceed. The Members are suggesting, at least some individuals have, that a Public Service Commission is the way to proceed. I note that this has been discussed for a great number of years now, and for whatever reason, previous Executives, previous Legislatures, have decided not to proceed with that.

We will need to review that. Whatever needs to be done should be collectively agreed to, I think, by Members of this Legislature and this Cabinet so we can proceed collectively in finding the best way, the fairest way, the most efficient way of getting on with hiring, developing and retaining a civil service that is truly reflective of the people we serve. Thank you.

Thank you, Premier Kakfwi. Item 6, oral questions. Before we continue, I would just like to remind Members that supplementaries should not carry any preamble. The rule says it should not require it. These are your rules. I just want to remind you of that. The answers should also be as brief as possible.

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question as well is addressed to the Premier, who, if my memory serves me correctly, was also the Minister responsible when the Affirmative Action Policy kicked in, in 1989. Mr. Speaker, there are two issues that I raised in my Member's statement. One is the need for an independent agency, a Public Service Commission, which will be thoroughly addressed by my colleagues. The other is the need for a human resource strategy.

As I indicated in the last six or seven years, there has been a tremendous amount of change, piecemeal, and a lot of it uncoordinated in human resource services. There is a need to take a look at what has been done and come up with a comprehensive strategy. Can the Premier indicate if the government is going to take a comprehensive look at how they provide these critical services? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have had a very intense initial few months since taking office. It is my view as the Premier that we will take time in the very near future to review the Affirmative Action Policy and to review the way in which this government deals with hiring, retaining, developing, and attracting people to the Government of the Northwest Territories. Attracting people from amongst the aboriginal population, the women and the northern residents to work within the Government of the Northwest Territories. To find a way that is acceptable to Members of the Legislature, and to suggest a process that we can use collectively. We can discuss and debate the best way to achieve the goals that we have set out in our vision statement, and to agree on a course of action so that together we can come up with a way to achieve measurable results and to set ways we can achieve them together. Thank you.

Thank you, Premier Kakfwi. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is not a new problem. This has been going on for years. In the last Assembly, the Government Operations Committee did reports. The government itself gave a response, where they made a tremendous number of commitments, the majority of which have not been followed up on.

Can the Premier indicate some timeframes, and I am hoping that we are not going to be reinventing the wheel here, of how we are going to make some progress and evolve. This is not a new issue, Mr. Speaker. We have had an Economic Development Strategy and they whipped up a Non-Renewable Resource Strategy. Surely this is equally critical. If they put their minds to it, they can start to address this. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is not possible for me to set any dates by which we can offer initiatives. I have tried to, since the beginning of this Legislature, involve Caucus in any initiatives that we propose to undertake. I believe that Members of the Legislature are open to convening another Caucus, perhaps in the fall, in the beginning of September.

That would be a time in which we could prepare a paper for consideration of Caucus that would give us the basis for discussion, to launch some preliminary work in this area. Thank you.

Thank you, Premier Kakfwi. Supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would have hoped that we were far beyond preliminary work in this critical area. Political involvement is all well and good, but as a corporation, as a business, as a government, the Cabinet and deputies have an ongoing, daily responsibility to have good corporate practices.

Can the Premier indicate, while we wait for this political discussion, will the bureaucracy and Cabinet Ministers, as their role was pointed out by the Premier, look at coming up with some corporate work on this particular issue and not just wait for the political discussion? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As Members know, we have started the preliminary work to develop the business plans for the next fiscal year. June is the month where we start the initial work to draft the business plans for the fiscal year 2001-2002. We will use that process to ask departments and senior managers to begin initial discussions on what information we can use and glean from them in preparing for the discussion we will have with Caucus in September. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Final supplementary, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as part of this work and review, given the fact that the Premier has indicated to my honourable colleague, Mr. Dent, that there is no way at present to hold deputy ministers accountable for targets, or any kind of measurable goals in the area of human resource development, will they look at this critical area of clear accountability frameworks that cut across government, a commitment that was made back in 1997 and has yet to be honoured? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not think that the Member is correct in quoting me as having said that so I cannot answer the question when I do not agree with the basis on which he is making the question.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, job descriptions are prepared by each individual department. Generally, they do follow the same format which outlines the purpose of the job, some primary responsibilities, and some specific task assignments. The preparation of job descriptions rests with each department. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister responsible for Financial Management Board Secretariat, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, that is a responsibility that rests with the deputy minister of each of the departments to ensure that the job descriptions accurately reflect what work is required. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister responsible for Financial Management Board Secretariat, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, yes, we can do that. I think there are probably occasions where because departments want the best possible employees, they do over rate the jobs and ask for qualifications that may be greater than what is really required. We can look into that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister responsible for Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development. It refers to affirmative action. Mr. Speaker, the policy that the government has now targets specific groups that are under-represented within the public service.

In view of the fact that this government negotiates socio-economic agreements with various private sector resource developers to increase aboriginal and northern employment, would the Minister please advise whether the Government of the Northwest Territories has a standard definition of what constitutes a northern resident or an affirmative action employee. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. That appears to be a policy question, and may not be directed to the Ministers, but more to the government leader, the Premier, who sets the overall government direction. Do you wish to direct it to the Premier?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for the clarification. I would like to redirect that question to the Minister responsible for Financial Management Board Secretariat.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. I shall direct the question to the Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member points out an area where there is some clarity and consistency required. There is no definitive definition of who is a Northerner. That has been apparent for some time. Thank you.

Thank you, Premier Kakfwi. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My supplementary is in regard to the wishes of every employer in the North, to have a workforce with a strong representation of the people in the North. Would the Premier consider consulting with other employers to standardize a definition of aboriginal, northern and other categories of workers? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Yes, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is no specific program such as what the Member is referring to. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When Nunavut was planning its workforce for the new Territory, it actively went out and selected individuals to train for senior management positions within the government. These individuals underwent on-the-job training and instruction to help them move into managerial positions. Why has the government not implemented such a program for aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories?

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I apologize for taking time to get up to answer the question. I was just consulting with my colleagues. I am not clear on what has been in place in the past, but previous governments had to take a very strong role in recruiting community leaders and managers, business managers, and sending them off to university for further training, with very strong support from this government. This was a way of investing in people who we know are going to be involved in the political and economic future of the Northwest Territories.

That was discontinued a number of years ago. As well, there were individual initiatives by departments in the past to put management trainees in place. At this time, there are no specific initiatives undertaken by this government.

What we would like to do is take suggestions such as the Member is making and put them together in a clear plan or strategy, so that we can take ideas like the Member is making today and put it in place in the overall context that can produce some results for us in the next year or two. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, what I would like to do is engage the Members of the Legislature, specifically the Members in Caucus, in the fall, so when the House reconvenes in November, we can look at ways in which we can make commitments to targets that we can achieve. We will need the Members of the Legislature on side to develop a strategy and plan that we can clearly implement with achievable results in the very near future. We need sufficient time to get senior managers and departments on side so they buy into a plan and approach that they are also comfortable with and will be supporting.

That is the approach I would like to take. I am afraid I could make targets myself today with no assurance that I can achieve them. I would sooner approach it in an organized way and get the Members of the Legislature to buy into a plan, as well as the senior management of this government, and proceed with a plan and strategy that we can discuss here in the November Session. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Supplementary, Mr. Nitah.

Mahsi, Mr. Nitah. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.