Thank you. Good afternoon. Please be seated. A point of order has been raised by Mr. Krutko. Mr. Krutko.

Point of Order

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order under rules 23(h) and (i) and Rule 24, concerning words spoken yesterday by the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Allen.

Mr. Speaker, my point of order is contained on page 556 of the unedited Hansard of June 28, 2000. During question period, I asked the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation a question concerning the Corporation's adherence to the Business Incentive Policy. Mr. Speaker, I asked the Minister the following question, and I quote from the unedited Hansard:

"Does the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation support the Business Incentive Policy or the Manufacturer's Directive that this government has in place? Why are you not following it?"

Mr. Speaker, the Minister, Mr. Allen, in answering my question indicated, and I quote, also from page 556 of the unedited Hansard:

"Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do believe the question is misleading."

Mr. Speaker, my point of order is that the Minister, Mr. Allen, is imputing motives that I am misleading the House with my question. As you know, Mr. Speaker, misleading the House is a point of order. It could also be a point of order for using the word "misleading" as being unparliamentary language. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. If I recall correctly, this is one of the first formal points of order that the Speaker has been asked to hear. Prior to proceeding with the point of order, and for the benefit of new Members, and perhaps to remind not so new Members of how points of order are dealt with by the Chair.

A point of order is a question raised by a Member who believes that the rules or customary procedures of the House have been incorrectly applied or overlooked during the proceedings. Members may rise on points of order to bring to the attention of the Chair any breach of the relevance, repetition, rules or unparliamentary remarks.

Points of order respecting procedure must be raised promptly. As a point of order concerns the interpretation of the rules of procedure, it is the responsibility of the Speaker to determine its merits and to resolve the issue.

In raising a point of order, a Member should only state the rule or practice he or she considers to have been breached. The Speaker has the duty to preserve order and decorum and to decide any matter of procedure that may arise. The Chair is also bound to call the attention of the House to an irregularity in debate or procedure immediately, without waiting for the intervention of a Member. In addition, the Speaker decides questions of order once they arise and not in anticipation. When a point of order is raised such as the one that we have before us now, raised by the Member for Mackenzie Delta, I will attempt to rule on the matter immediately. However, if necessary, the Chair may take the matter under advisement and come back to the House later with a formal ruling.

I felt it was important to clarify the procedure for dealing with a point of order prior to hearing debate on the point of order raised today. In hearing a point of order, and if it is not clear to the Chair whether there has been an infraction, I may permit debate on the point of order.

Our Rule 24 permits the Member who has been called to order, in this case, the Minister for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, Mr. Allen, to explain.

Therefore, to the point of order before me today, the House has heard the point of order raised by the Member for Mackenzie Delta. I would now permit the Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. Allen, to speak to the point of order. The rules also allow the Speaker to hear from other Members who may wish to speak to the point of order.

To the point of order. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. Allen, do you wish to speak to the point of order?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do wish to point out that when I said the question was misleading, I did not intend to imply that Mr. Krutko had done anything misleading. If that has offended the Member, I would gladly withdraw my remarks. To clarify for the record, Mr. Speaker, I think Mr. Krutko and I have a different interpretation of the issue that was being discussed at the time. That is probably a better way to describe the incident. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Allen. To the point of order. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On the point of order, my question to the Minister, I made it clear that the question was coming from a meeting I held with colleagues in this House, with Members of the Manufacturers' Association. They raised the point that many of them were concerned they were not being fairly treated by the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation regarding the opportunity to bid and have their products, which have been produced in the North, and are able to market them in the North, that several projects did not have the same opportunity for applying on some of these initiatives.

Specs on different contracts were purchased from southern Canada with no consideration for northern manufacturers. That is the reason I raised the question, does the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation support the Business Incentive Policy...

Mr. Krutko, to the point of order only, please.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my point of order is I was just doing the job I was elected for. I was just following the direction of the Manufacturers' Association, who felt they were not being fairly treated. That is why I presented the question.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. I believe what we have here in question in the point of order is the remark made about the question of being misled, or misleading. I think the Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes has withdrawn that remark, and offered an apology. Is the Member for Mackenzie Delta prepared to accept that the word misleading has been withdrawn in the matter? Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in no way, shape, or form have I ever attempted to mislead this House. I still feel offended by that comment. Knowing the Minister is new, I will accept that, but if this were to happen again, I will definitely take it up to a higher level. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko, for that acceptance of Mr. Allen's suggestion to withdraw that. I believe that this matter is now resolved and concluded. It needs no further attention.

I would just like to remind the House that, on occasion, the Speaker will hear a word, but has the option of recognizing and interrupting immediately, or it can wait until...we learned from this first experience on a point of order. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Point of Order

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. To the point of order. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in this particular instance, I think the facts speak very clearly for themselves. I was very careful in considering my comments. I qualified that. I did not state emphatically or definitively. I said it could appear or it may appear. Mr. Speaker, in the minds of the constituent I represented, very clearly the government is not funding and using this money for the purposes for which it was voted.

It is unfortunate that the Minister and Cabinet have taken such an exception to this, and would choose to devote the House's time to this issue rather than meeting the needs of my constituents. It is unfortunate they have chosen to take it this way. The reality is very clear, Mr. Speaker, in the record. I think, when you rule on this issue, I hope you will take that fact under consideration. It is qualified and based on the discussion and the hard reality of the numbers.

I was not imputing motive. I was making reference to a possible perception of appearance. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. To the point of order. I will take this matter under advisement and report back to the House later. Thank you. Any further points of order? Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Honourable Stephen Kakfwi and the Honourable Jim Antoine will be a little late for the House today. They are on route from Fort Simpson and should be here momentarily. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Mr. Handley, may I inquire as to whether this is an emergency statement you are making? It was not filed with the Clerk prior to the start of proceedings. Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, yes, this was an emergency statement. They had planned to be here by 1:30 p.m., but are running a little late. Thank you.

Thank you. That falls within the rules. Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today, all Members of the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight will be making the case for literacy in our Members' statements and during oral questions.

Mr. Speaker, in discussing the definition of literacy, the Literacy Council has suggested, and I quote,

"We live in an information based society which demands increasingly sophisticated literacy scales. Literacy is no longer defined by the basic ability to read, but rather how people use written information to function in society. This changes our assumptions about literacy and its links to broader social, economic and political issues."

Mr. Speaker, not long ago, Members of the Standing Committee on Social Programs met with representatives of the Northwest Territories Literacy Council, along with a broad cross-section of literacy advocates and practitioners. They presented us with a paper, which outlined why this government needs to develop and adopt a comprehensive government-wide literacy strategy.

They showed us the need for the Government of the NWT to really make a commitment to, and an investment in, the people of the Northwest Territories by making literacy the keystone of all of our initiatives.

Literacy is strongly linked to social development in terms of reduced crime, reduced unemployment and poverty, and reduced reliance on income support. Mr. Speaker, there is also a very strong tie between literacy and the economy, in terms of higher employment, income and increased productivity.

Our strategy must run through all departments, but those on the social envelope in particular should take the lead and pull everyone together in the development of the strategy, making sure the coordination is strong.

Above all, there must be meaningful consultation with practitioners like the Northwest Territories Literacy Council, other NGOs, communities and aboriginal groups.

Mr. Speaker, we have heard that project based funding has actually destabilized the whole area of literacy training. The only practical solution is to establish multi-year funding for programs. Obviously, this also requires an effective accountability framework, which includes a meaningful evaluation and monitoring process.

Without a long term commitment to literacy skills development, as part of an economic and social development strategy, a large number of Northerners will be unable to take full advantage of the opportunities just on the horizon right now.

If Northerners do not have the skills to take advantage of new job opportunities, they will simply be filled by southern workers. That is unacceptable.

Mr. Speaker, we need this government to commit now to a healthy and literate population. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to make my Member's statement and focus it around the issue of literacy in the family.

Mr. Speaker, there are three components that I wish to touch on, literacy, language and culture. They are part of the whole, a trinity that is linked inextricably.

Mr. Speaker, the underpinning to any success in maintaining and having a flourishing language, culture and strong levels of literacy is the family. Mr. Speaker, this issue is important to all families. We have eight official languages, we have eight cultures. We have language communities that cover the whole Northwest Territories.

My colleague, Mr. Dent, has talked about the issue of a linked strategy for languages and literacy. The underpinning for this has to be the family. As we look at literacy, language and culture, we have to keep in mind, Mr. Speaker, that the aboriginal languages are in dire straits. Some are borderline extinction, and many are considered to be endangered.

The Government of the NWT has funding for aboriginal languages. Unfortunately it is based only on the number of registered aboriginal and Inuvialuit. Where are the Metis and their families as we look at language, literacy and culture?

As I have indicated, families are the foundations for our society. In promoting literacy, language and culture in the family, all should be considered fairly. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Mahsi, Mr. Nitah. Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to call your attention to a matter that affects too many of our Northern residents. Mr. Speaker, I feel there is an urgent need to address the current level of literacy in the North. In particular, how literacy, or the lack of it, affects the inmates at our correctional centres.

Mr. Speaker, I was quite shocked to read that the average education level of an inmate in our correctional system is grade 6. Mr. Speaker, in many cases, the situation that inmates find themselves in can be closely related to the level of education they have.

Statistics show that the higher the level of education, individuals are less likely to get themselves in trouble with the law. Mr. Speaker, I suggest that an inmate with a level of education of grade 6 or less has already been sentenced to a hard life, regardless of any sentence imposed by the courts.

Mr. Speaker, I do not want to suggest that we write these individuals off. Rather, I suggest that we do everything we can to help them help themselves. Mr. Speaker, we are all aware that literacy affects the life choices that we make for ourselves.

I urge the Minister responsible to make a commitment to improve the level of literacy in our correctional centres. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I too have a lot of concerns in this area, especially in the area of the ABE program and literacy in our communities. We find that the money that we save in our communities for the ABE program is not sufficient in most cases. We just have part-time positions. We do not have the resources to do justice to the number of adults in our communities that need these programs to assist them to get on with their lives, so that they can have good jobs and good opportunities in our communities with the economics that we have.

Yet, Mr. Speaker, there is definitely a difference of programs being delivered, especially in the small communities in relation to the larger centres. I, for one, feel that this government has to be fair in how these dollars are allocated. In most cases, these positions should be full-time and that there is no reason that we should continue these part-time obligations, where we are dealing with funds which are not planned for any long-term opportunities for people to plan for themselves and also for their children. So that they know that they will be able to take a course, not just depending on one year at a time, but realizing that the funds we do get will be there to assist the whole community, from adults, to teenagers, to children who are coming up who may want to take programs and services in our home communities.

Mr. Speaker, I feel that the Department of Education has to put more resources into this important initiative to improve the basic adult education program and the literacy numbers we have in our communities. We have to, somehow, focus on improving those numbers so that they do come down to a reasonable number.

I mentioned in my comments, in the last number of days, where in my riding we have, in some cases in communities up to almost 40 percent of the people, above the age of 15, who are considered illiterate and do not have anything more than a grade 9 education.

In order to take advantage of the number of jobs that we see coming, especially in the Beaufort Delta, somewhere in the area of 1500 to 1600 jobs, we need trained and educated people, regardless of their age group. This program, I see, is very important, especially in adult basic education and improving our literacy. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise here today to talk about the need for this government to make a commitment to adult basic education and literacy.

In the last year, we have seen the sunset of a million dollar program, called the Community Skills for Work. The department is bringing it back, to some degree, putting some money back into it, but there were indications that they were not happy with either the efficiency or the effectiveness of the program being delivered.

Success rates did not seem to show that they were getting value for money, Mr. Speaker, but I would suggest to you that when we take a look at the labour force survey, and we see the staggering low levels of education and we understand that there is a correlation between education and income.

I asked about the review that the department did of the Community Skills for Work, and asking the right questions, looking in the right places. I think it is important that we make the commitment. When we see waiting lists around the various communities for adult basic education programs that go on for a year and sometimes two years, we know there is certainly an interest in these programs.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to talk about delivery of adult basic education and how the department chooses to deliver its programs. Typically, adults who want to go back to school have a couple of choices. They can go back to high school with students maybe half their age, but they do not often have the option of taking night school. So, in effect, what we do is we force them to go on income support, Mr. Speaker, if they choose to upgrade and pursue further education.

I do not think this makes any sense. I think it is something the department has to closely look at.

Yesterday, I also brought up the issue of distance learning and the DCN, and applauded the department for some of the things it is doing, especially in conjunction with the Calgary School Board. We discussed text versus visual use of the DCN. I think it is going to be important to realize that if we hope the DCN can bridge the gap and start to be used for applications like adult basic education, visual learning is critical for adults. We are going to have to be able to deliver programs over the DCN. I think this is certainly something the department should consider.

Was the Community Skills for Work Program efficient and effective, Mr. Speaker? I do not have the answer to that, but I do not believe the department does either. I think some more thought had to go into this. I am glad they decided to put some more money into this.

It is a time, Mr. Speaker, where we need to be doing more for adult basic education, not less. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Item 3, Members' statements. The Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Premier and the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development have said on many occasions, the Northwest Territories has tremendous economic potential. With proper planning and management, we have the chance to be one of the more affluent provinces or territories, only, Mr. Speaker, as long as our citizens are able to fully participate in these economic opportunities.

The June newsletter of the BHP Incorporated, Ekati mine, Mr. Speaker, shows the workforce requirement by job application. They have a job classification that is roughly 83 percent requiring professional skilled to semi-skilled workforce. That leaves only 17 percent classified as unskilled.

The message is clear. We need a literate population, people who can function in society and, Mr. Speaker, there is work underway of many levels to help. I would like to acknowledge the efforts of organisations such as the Tree of Peace and other friendship centres, the YWCA, the Native Women's Association of the Northwest Territories, the Women's Centre here in Yellowknife, and the Northwest Territories Literacy Council for their commitment.

This Assembly too, through its vision statement, Mr. Speaker, wants to encourage pride and desire to be positive contributors and give a sense of initiative to all people in the North.

One of the greatest issues facing us is the development of self-reliance in the socio-economic area. Through the Department of Education, Culture and Employment Income Support Program and the auctions under productive choices, we can develop increased self-reliance if the appropriate support programs and skills are in place.

The problem, which requires priority attention, is literacy. It is perhaps the deepest valley in the record of education in the North over the decades, Mr. Speaker. The statistics are dismal on literacy among aboriginal people, especially in smaller remote communities. Systemic discrimination, residential schools, and more recently, the daunting issue of FAE, FAS, are among the events that I believe have combined to confront us today with so many people who cannot cope in today's literate world.

People working at the grassroots tell me, Mr. Speaker, that the government does not take literacy seriously. When funding for literacy for 14 women from across the Territories had to be funded by eight different sources, some as far away as Toronto....

Mr. Braden, your time has expired.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Thank you. The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude your statement, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We need an adequately funded, territory-wide literacy strategy in place so citizens are able to make productive choices and take every opportunity this great country offers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on this theme day of literacy, I would like to take a few minutes to talk about the concept of reduce, reuse and recycle for literacy.

A few weeks past, Mr. Speaker, I challenged my colleagues to lose some weight this spring by donating books and magazines to the Yellowknife Correctional Centre Library book drive.

Mr. Speaker, I have some good news and some bad news. I will start with the bad news first. Many MLAs have not yet taken the opportunity to reduce the number of books and magazines in their homes and donate them to the YCC for reuse. However, Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report that some MLAs have recycled the idea, and suggested similar approaches for increasing library materials in other correctional institutions in the Northwest Territories.

Mr. Speaker, numerous studies over the years indicate that one of the factors determining whether a person will succeed in life is directly related to literacy. More and more jobs require basic literacy, whether to read safety instructions, a list of work to be performed for the day or completing reports and forms. Personally, Mr. Speaker, I believe the capacity to read well in any language is the most powerful tool one can have.

I can tell you that through reading, I have personally experienced a sense of total empowerment and feeling of wholeness as a person. I have led my way out of sadness into utter joy and solved virtually all questions about life. Reading is the most powerful thing.

Mr. Bill Chipman, the organizer of the YCC book drive, says while he has received numerous donations, inmates read these materials over and over again and they quickly get worn out.

Mr. Speaker, I would encourage you, my colleagues and members of the public who have novels, current magazines, National Geographic, Readers' Digest or reference materials to contact Bill Chipman at Yellowknife Correctional Centre, 669-8620, or a similar person in an institution in your community, and donate your excess books.

You will not only be losing some weight, you will be giving the gift of literacy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Deh Cho, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak about apprentices and apprenticeships. Mr. Speaker, the government was a leader in developing apprenticeships in the Northwest Territories. Many of those apprentices have gone on to either become businessmen or move up further in the corporate world...

And some MLAs, yes, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Mr. Speaker, as I said, the government was once a leader. Unfortunately, that can no longer be said. Instead, we have left it to the private sector. Speaking from my community perspective, it is the small businesses that pick up where the government left off.

Many times they find themselves in a situation which lacks support, and it is difficult to recruit apprentices. When they do have people who are interested in the trade sector, whether it is carpentry, mechanics or other areas of apprenticeships, they find themselves lacking the necessary qualifications when it comes to education, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, that points to the fact that we need to improve on our system. Literacy, whether it is to get into an apprenticeship or go on to university education, we need to make sure we are doing work that shows it is quality and not just quantity.

Mr. Speaker, when we speak specifically about apprenticeships, I am dismayed that this government had lapsed $400,000 the previous year in the area of apprenticeships.

How many people would that have helped, Mr. Speaker? People who could be on the road to being productive, to qualifying in a field that would provide more income for themselves and their families, especially when we see this much development on the doorstep.

This government needs to focus on outcomes and results, not results that show lapsed dollars, because to me, that shows poor planning. Mr. Speaker, I will have some questions for the appropriate Minister later. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Antoine. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Steen.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Roland on June the 26th, 2000, regarding progress to the Inuvik Hospital project.

The Department of Public Works and Services is currently working with the Department of Health and Social Services to develop a management and project delivery plan for the Inuvik Hospital project.

The change from a P3 approach to a traditional capital-funded project has required the reassignment of staff and confirmation of the basic project parameters. It is expected that much of the previous work on the project is still applicable.

Both departments are aware of community and regional interest in seeing the project proceed as quickly as possible. However, this is a highly complex and highly specialized facility. It will be critical to ensure that the project management and delivery approach is well thought out and that the basic project parameters are clearly understood by all parties.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Returns to oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to an oral question asked by Mr. Krutko on June 21, 2000, regarding preservation of aboriginal languages.

On January 5, 2000, the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Government of Canada entered into a five-year renewal of the Canada-Northwest Territories Cooperation Agreement on French and Aboriginal Languages in the Northwest Territories. The agreement covers fiscal years 1999-2000 to 2003-2004. In each year of the agreement, $1.9 million is to be provided for aboriginal languages and $1.6 million for French.

There was a delay in the signing of the agreement that made it difficult for the GNWT and non-government organizations to fully spend their 1999-2000 allocations. The GNWT successfully negotiated with the federal government an agreement to carry over anticipated surplus funds from 1999-2000. Six hundred thousand dollars was approved as a carryover in the aboriginal languages allocation, to be spread over two years, and $75,000 was approved as a one-year carryover in the French language allocation. These amounts were determined based on expenditures projected by all departments and non-government recipients.

The Department of Education, Culture and Employment anticipates that a small amount of the funds for which we projected expenditures in 1999-2000 will not have been spent. However, we will not have full accounting completed until the end of July at the earliest. The Department can provide details on lapsed funds once those figures become available. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you Mr. Ootes. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I cannot tell you how pleased I was today when I walked into my office just before we came into the House to have a surprise visitor, Major James Osler with the Canadian Forces Joint Headquarters in Kingston, Ontario, who is here doing the Jennyjohn Expedition. He is my first cousin, who I have not seen in 25 years. He is accompanied by Major Richard Dixon as well. Welcome.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are a number of people in the gallery today, because of our tie to the theme of literacy. I would like to recognize a constituent first of all, Katherine Robinson, who looks after publicity and fundraising for the Northwest Territories Literacy Council.

Another constituent, Sue Edmonds, is here with a group from the Association for Community Living, and the Literacy Outreach Centre. Miriam Wideman is the executive director of the Association for Community Living, and Linda Lee, who is with the YWCA.

There are a number of people here from the Literacy Outreach Centre, Judy Wattsko, Wanda Powder, Janet Baird, Jaicee Wanazah and Bertha Taylor. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you Mr. Dent. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize one of the great teachers of the North, now retired, Mr. Ed Jeske. I think it is appropriate that he is here in light of the notice that the Honourable Vince Steen gave yesterday about the changes to the Motor Vehicles Act that he plans to make. I think we all recognize that it really takes people and teachers and instructors like Mr. Jeske to give us the values that we need to be safe drivers and safe on the road. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you Mr. Braden. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. To all of those that are visiting us, welcome to the Legislative Assembly. Item 6, oral questions, The Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question today is for the Premier. As we have tried to point out today, literacy is critical for people to enjoy meaningful opportunities to participate in social and economic life in the Northwest Territories.

Literacy is important in helping people make informed choices so they can become more productive and healthy. Mr. Speaker, we need to lead the way to a broader understanding of literacy as an important element of economic productivity and labour market participation as well as population health.

Literacy is as much a health issue or an economic development issue as it is an education issue. Literacy is everyone's concern, Mr. Speaker. This government has an important role to play. Government should lead by setting out a comprehensive strategy for literacy development that cuts across departmental policy areas.

Mr. Speaker, will the Premier take the lead and direct his Cabinet colleagues to collaborate in the development of a comprehensive strategy for literacy? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you Mr. Dent. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is the intention of our government to work towards a plan on literacy for the people of the Northwest Territories, particularly the smaller communities where literacy is such a difficulty. Something that we have not developed is a comprehensive strategy on how to approach and address, so the answer is yes. Again, we are not going to resolve it in this House. It is something that cabinet would like to work with Caucus on, so that there is full inclusion on exactly how we are going to address this.

It is the intent of this government to address it as a condition of non-renewable resource development in the Northwest Territories. This is the initial suggestion, but if pipelines are going to go, oil and gas development is going to happen, we have to see measurable change in the literacy rate, particularly in the small communities, and that the unemployed, the illiterate can see tangible results we did not reach and in a reasonable timeframe. Particularly, for instance, driver's licenses. Why can we not live with a strategy where everyone in the Northwest Territories, particularly in smaller communities where vehicles and roads are scarce, can have a reasonable opportunity to obtain a driver's license and driver training? That would all be part of the comprehensive literacy strategy. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Premier's commitment to developing a government-wide comprehensive strategy. Will the Premier, in the process of developing that strategy, ensure that literacy practitioners like the Northwest Territories Literacy Council and other community-based non-government organizations, particularly from the smaller communities that he has mentioned, are involved in developing a comprehensive strategy?

Thank you Mr. Dent. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I gather that the Member has agreed to work with us in developing this strategy, and that we can start that in September. Of course, if we are agreeable to working together to develop such a strategy, then it is important to recognize that we have partners and agencies like the Literacy Council, who should be there with us to flesh out the elements of an outline of such a strategy. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think Members in this House are all prepared to work as partners in the development of the strategy, but I think we expect the government to take the lead. We do not want to wait until September to see the process started. Mr. Speaker, will the Premier commit his government to reducing the inequalities that exist and ensure that there is access to high quality literacy programs across the Northwest Territories?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member is aware that the resource is available to this government, as well as dealing with the budget at this time. The Member should know that in the discussions that we have had with the Prime Minister, the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, Mr. Nault, that it is clear that we require literacy money training dollars and we need it now. We are waiting for a response from the federal government.

We have said in partnership with the aboriginal leaders, the chiefs, the Inuvialuit, the Metis, that we are prepared to engage industry to develop oil and gas and minerals in the Northwest Territories, and that has already started. It is not on the horizon. It has already started. What we need from the federal government is an announcement, some sort of indication that yes, they recognize that we are already started into development and that they will shortly announce some sort of financial resources that would be available to this government and to the people of the North, so that we can start training people, we can start fixing up some of the roads, developing some of the winter roads, this summer, this fall. That is what we are waiting for. We have not received it yet. Hopefully, it will come in the next few weeks. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Final supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I too hope that the work of the Premier and the Minister of Finance in Ottawa bears fruit within the next few weeks. Whether it does or not, we must invest in our people. So will the Premier commit his government to assure the literacy programs are adequately resourced with multi-year funding agreements? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am prepared to make commitments as far as this legislation will support me on making. There are a number of motions and directions made by Members which need to be responded to. Some of them I believe, entail incurring costs. We have areas in which we can reduce expenditures and reallocate.

We need to work on that in partnership with the Members. So we are presently scheduling our work as a Cabinet to coincide with the target of meeting with Caucus the first week of September. In order to meet that, there are a number of areas in which, as a Cabinet, we need to give direction to our officials to start working on. There are areas where the staff that worked with the MLAs need to work with our officials, so that when we meet in September, there is something of substance that is going to come out of it.

There is a tremendous amount of work to be done, and we have started that already. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Item 6, oral questions. The Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment. It is regarding access to adult basic education and literacy problems we find in our communities. Mr. Speaker, many of the small communities in the North do not have access to ongoing adult basic education programming.

Programs delivered in a lot of our small communities rely on project-based funding, such as those now defunct in the Community Skills For Work Program. These type of unsecured, short-term funding literacy programs create unequal access between communities. There are communities that have full-time positions. There are communities that have a part-time position and there are some communities that strictly deliver small programs.

Yet, Mr. Speaker, something further must be done to include small communities, to give them the ability to have the same access to programs. It should not matter where you live. Mr. Speaker, does the Department of Education have a policy in regard to how they allocate literacy funds? Or is it strictly a first come, first serve basis? Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Let me first state that I think that this is a very good discussion to have and a good question period to have today to focus on literacy and adult basic education here in the Territories.

I want to emphasize the need for us to address the whole issue of the need that is out there. It extends from early childhood through our school system and into the workforce. Literacy is an extreme problem here in the Territories, Mr. Speaker.

-- Interjection

I am sorry, Mr. Ootes, just a moment. I am afraid I am going to have to ask you to answer the question. You are making a statement. Please answer the question.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The funding for literacy is done through several processes. One is through the College and the other is through the community organizations, dispensed by regions and is done on an application basis. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. I just want to remind Members that question period is one hour long. The longer you take for preamble, the longer you take for answers, cuts into the questions. You should not make statements when questions are being asked. Get right to the point. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. To the point, Mr. Speaker. The efforts of planning in all departments, there is usually a five-year capital plan for our business plans. Yet when it comes to funding literacy programs, the only thing we seem to see is a year-to-year basis for funding.

I would like to ask the department if they are implementing long-term funding arrangements for literacy programs in our communities?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we know, the Community Skills for Work was lapsed. It was not put into base funding by the previous funding. We are proposing, if the budget is approved, to put the funding we are identifying for Community Skills for Work into base funding.

With regard to long-term funding, we have the amounts in the system base funding in all areas. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, regarding the literacy program, it appears there are some communities who do not have the adult program being presently delivered in their communities. I would like to ask the Minister, is the department doing a long-term plan to ensure that all residents and communities in the Northwest Territories will have the same opportunities in delivering adult programs and literacy programs?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Aurora College delivers some programs in some communities, and we supplement that with the Community Skills for Work. That is intended for the smaller communities. It will be based on proposals. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is sad to say you have to apply for funding. Literacy is a problem that affects all of us.

I would like to ask the Minister again, to be fair to all communities in the Northwest Territories, that we allow all communities to have the same access and the same amount of money to deliver adult programs. Will the Minister to commit to promise the communities that he will do that?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that is a resource allocation problem. We do not have the funds to be able to provide equal service in all communities. It is based on proposals in communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes. In the Department of Education, Culture and Employment's document, Towards Excellence, A Report on Education in the NWT 1999, on page 24, it is stated:

"Two thirds of communities do not have learning centres or adult basic education. Options for mature students wishing to complete grade 12 in their community are limited to school."

The report goes on to say:

"Given the increase in the number of students at the secondary level, and the changing demographics of that population, there is a need to consider funding to meet the needs of mature students."

Has the Department of Education, Culture and Employment made any headway in addressing this issue raised in their report, this being there is a need to consider securing funding to meet the needs of mature students? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. The Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the process that is used is through the delivery of adult basic education, Mr. Speaker, and it is done through the College, through the regional organizations and community groups. Funding is provided to the three regions, as well as through the Community Skills for Work program. We have not proceeded beyond that because of resource limitations. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Supplementary, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it is well known that adults learn differently than youth. Adult education programs involve a hands-on approach, rather than a traditional teacher centred approach.

When teaching adults, the focus is on developing literacy skills in a context that is meaningful to the adult learner. When adults go into a formal classroom setting, they face a delivery system that generally does not suit their learning style.

By not offering ABE and literacy programs in the communities, many adults have no choice but to go back to a traditional school system that has already failed them.

Has the Minister tracked the success rate of adults entering back into the traditional school system?

Thank you, Mr. Bell. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not have that information here with me. I will have to take the question as notice.

Thank you. The Minister has taken the question as notice. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. The Minister stated in a previous answer that funding allocations and adult basic education programs come by request, basically at the discretion of communities.

I am concerned about consistency and really being able to drive a literacy agenda forward. Will the Minister be looking at a more aggressive and territory-wide program to make sure training is available? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that is an interesting question. We are working on a directive for adult literacy and basic education. It is quite extensive. We hope to have that completed in a very short while. Following that, our intent is to develop a strategy for adult literacy and basic education. As the Premier stated, we intend to incorporate other departments and stakeholders in this. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that answer. The Minister has referenced other stakeholders. It is something that has come up in other areas in our Assembly's work, that the value of non-government organizations to delivery of community services is valuable.

Is multi-year funding for these kinds of organizations part of that outlook? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the concern for multi-year funding has been there on the part of the NGOs. I am very familiar with that concern, and very concerned for those organizations. It is an issue that has been brought forward many times before. Certainly, it is the area of concern that hopefully we can address through the strategy that will be developed, Mr. Speaker.