Just a reminder to the Members that you should not be imputing motives in regard to what you think is right, wrong, or different. Just to be fair to the Members, to make you aware, you should not be suggesting that people are being misleading. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the department has identified funding in the future for Highway No. 4. This is in response to the amount of traffic on that highway in the wintertime. It is not a question of whether that is the road to resources. It is in response to the number of trucks going down that road right now. From there they take the winter road north. We have no control over that. Those trucks will go where the demand is. We are trying to respond by putting funds into Highway No. 4 to keep it safe and passable. That is the whole purpose of it. We are not suggesting that that is going to be the road to resources, we are just responding to traffic volume. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Lafferty.

Mr. Minister, can you clarify?

Mr. Chairman, I was referring to sections of the highway that may need immediate response due to weather conditions, due to washouts, whatever. We do have operations and maintenance funding and we can respond to those kinds of situations.

Mr. Lafferty.

Clarification. Mr. Steen.

Mr. Chairman, I have said that in the operations and maintenance funding that we have identified in this budget, we believe that it will allow us to have enough funding to respond to those kinds of situations. Thank you.

Mr. Lafferty.

Mr. Minister.

Mr. Chairman, there was a report released at the time of the accident and there is no reference to the fact that the highway was not safe. Just for the Member's information, that section of highway is measured at ten metres on the travelled portion of the highway. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, in the area of transportation and more in the area of highways, this is a concern that I raised in committee when we found out that during the interim appropriation that the department had cut $500,000 out of the Dempster Highway Widening Project, as it was called at that time. On my return to my community, hearing a lot of the concerns about the lack of work and what is going on, and the information that they were hearing was that work was being delayed because the widening project included every capital project along the Dempster Highway. It was not just the widening project that is continuing on the highway.

One was a concern that the information being provided was missing some critical pieces when it comes to the actual dollars being spent in the area. On review of this, the main estimates, and in the committee, the Minister confirmed that $500,000 coming out of the Dempster Highway Widening Project was in fact a lot of the other projects in the Dempster Highway or Highway No. 8, as it would be called. The concern is with this area, in fact, when they were talking about reducing capital areas they selected a number of highway sites where this was happening. All except for Highway No. 3, which remained on the capital plan with the budget allocated.

It brings concern to our end of the Northwest Territories even though we do not have 15,000 people there. There is going to be a large increase in the traffic as this year goes by with the seismic work that is going to happen with the development that is under way. We are cutting back in other areas of Dempster Highway repairs and capital improvements are a very big concern to myself and the residents. We have heard a lot of discussion around here about the lack of dollars and so on, but I must agree with what Mr. Krutko raised earlier. There has to be an evening out of that. If it is government policy to make expenditures in a way that includes population, traffic volumes and so on, we might as well just shut down some areas of the Territory. It is just lack of volume.

I understand that there is a need for that because the more traffic you have and the heavier the traffic, there is going to be some wear and tear, but all the talk about Highway No. 3 -- I have heard from individuals the distance or the time it takes them to drive from here to the ferry crossing at the speed they would be going, it just does not match up with this concern of safety. Some people are absolutely moving down that highway well above the posted speed limits. I had the opportunity to ride with the Minister back from Providence and I must say at that time the highway was in pretty good shape from the standards I am accustomed to on the Dempster Highway. An example, Mr. Chairman, on a recent trip home coming home to the airport on a nice clear day, coming down for a landing, being able to see the Dempster Highway out of the left side of the plane and seeing traffic which was miles away, and the dust clouds they left behind them. Probably 40 miles away I could still see a vehicle moving down the road because of the dust cloud. That, to me, is a dangerous situation, especially when you have inter-community travel, as well as trade, and then the tourists coming down the highway. Those tourists going back down the other way, the message that they are going to give is do not bother to go down that highway unless you want your windshield taken out, or extra flat tires, or if you want to be dusting out your camper for the next year.

I come from the side of Mr. Krutko and request that the department look at some of its initiatives and try to be more balanced in the area of funds. When we look at Highway No. 3, it is clear that there is $6 million for that project of straightening it, widening it, paving it on top, but when we look at Inuvik, the Dempster Highway and then find out, in fact, that it is every project along that way. It is troubling to know that we are getting two different definitions here and then to find out the capital project for the bridge at the Campbell Creek, which is new, and I believe is being pushed by the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans. It is interesting to see that they are pushing that. That, too, will come out of what was $2 million or $2.5 million at one point. So, in fact, even less money is going for the widening of that project. I urge the department, along with my colleague, Mr. Krutko, that there needs to be a clear definition, guidelines, and some balance to how this is done. Thank you.

The Minister responsible for Transportation, Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I take the Member's comments quite seriously in suggesting that we try and use some kind of balance in how we spend our capital dollars across the territory. I do not think our department was in any way trying to purposely reduce the dollars that are applied to Highway No. 8, it is just the need that we have for those capital dollars in other areas and the fact that we were asked to reduce our expenditures last year, left us no choice but to cut some projects. We tried to cut all the projects equally. We are not trying to send a message here that we are cutting projects through other processes.

When we reach the expenditures on Highway No. 8 under highway activities, I could show the Member what programs were being undertaken in past years for the money that was identified for Highway No. 8. It was not just simply widening the road. That money was spent for more than just the widening of the highway on Highway No. 8. Rather than get into details now, we could do that when we reach that activity.

If it is any consolation to the Member, I am sure he is aware that for the future, we have Highway No. 8 back to the previous expenditure levels of $2.5 million for next year. At this point in time, there is no plan to reduce that. As a matter of fact, like everywhere else, if we have the ability, we will increase that. That is what is in the budget at this point in time. Thank you.

Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess the only other concern I would have in that area is development. We see development going up as well, that somehow we could try to work with that and identify that. When you are talking about the road base, the base of the road itself is starting to show through the top surface. That is going to require major work to bring it back up to level. Most people driving the Dempster figure the resurfacing ends up in the bush. We are slowly widening the highway, but it is through the spray of gravel over into the bush section. The road continues to get lower than when it was first built.

I know from my own experience working with the department for a short time that there is a lot of pressure put on the department to try to come up with a balance and building infrastructure. Everybody knows the importance of infrastructure. Once you have a decent highway system, development can follow on its heels fairly quickly. I agree with other Members that we need to stop the bleeding through this department and try and shore it up somehow. Knowing our fiscal situation, Mr. Chairman, I do not think that is very likely in the near future, unless "Moneybags" Handley can come up with a homerun. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I did not respond to one of the other points the Member made earlier regarding dust control on Highway No. 8. I support, as I did last year, that if we have any surplus funding through operations and maintenance or capital that we would put it towards dust control on the highways, because it does help to maintain the highway surfaces. It does help safety-wise. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. We are dealing with the Department of Transportation, general comments.