Thank you, Mr. Roland. Please be seated. Good afternoon, Members.

Speaker's Ruling

At this time, I would like to provide my ruling on the point of order raised by the Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell. The point of order appears on page 1052 of unedited Hansard. The Member's point of order as stated by Mr. Bell: "I believe the Member has imputed motives toward myself and the committee with her suggestions that one of the recommendations had ulterior motives." Mr. Bell's point of order arose as a result of comments being made by the Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee, while she was replying to the Commissioner's opening address under item 9 on the orders of the day.

I permitted debate on the point of order and heard from the Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent. There being no other Members who wished to speak on the point of order, I reserved my decision to permit me to review the unedited Hansard. In reviewing the Hansard I made note of, and I am sure Members will recall, that there was one other point of order and a point of privilege raised during the reply being made by the Member for Range Lake. To the point of order that I reserved on, and in reviewing the unedited Hansard, there are two quotes that are, in my view, the basis of the point of order.

The first is on pages 1048 and 1049 of the unedited Hansard and I quote Ms. Lee:

Mr. Speaker, the instrument of this palace coup is the committee report filed on Tuesday and the committee report that was discussed yesterday. I think the people who need to answer to these actions are the authors of this report. Mr. Speaker, I believe it is very clear who has written the report and the interest of the public, the Members of the committee...Then the Member for Range Lake proceeded to name all the Members of the Special Committee on Conflict Process.

The second quote is contained on page 1051 of the unedited Hansard and I again quote Ms. Lee: "However, it seems like there was an ulterior motive to that motion and that is that a suggestion made for a certain action has to be taken by the Premier."

There are a number of rules that I reviewed in considering my ruling. First, Rule 41(1), which states:

41(1) Every Member may make one reply to the opening address given under rule 33 and may speak on any matter.Secondly, Rule 23, which states:

In debate a Member will be called to order by the Speaker if the Member:

(c) Persists in needless repetition or raises matters which have been decided during the current session:

(f) Reflects upon any previous vote of the Assembly except for the purpose of moving that it be rescinded;

(h) Makes an allegation against another Member, a house officer or a witness: and

(i) Imputes false or hidden motives to another Member.

Mr. Bell's point of order falls under Rule 23(h) and 23(i). However, as I pointed out during the debate yesterday, Ms. Lee came very close to breaching a number of other rules on a number of occasions. I rule that Mr. Bell does have a point of order based on the comments made by the Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

The Chair's normal course in dealing with this matter would be to ask the Member, Ms. Lee, to retract the offending comments. However, I do note that again on page 1052, and I quote from the comments of the Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee: "Mr. Speaker, my apologies. It was not appropriate for me to use the words ulterior motive so I will retract that and refrain from saying it again."

Therefore the Chair will accept the stated apology of the Member for Range Lake, which I trust is acceptable to the Member for Yellowknife South and the House. Thank you.

The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, I have a point of order I would like to raise.

The honourable Member has a point of order. Mr. Handley, what is your point of order?

Point of Order

Mr. Speaker, my point of order is under section 25 of the Rules of the Legislative Assembly. This is the first opportunity I have had to raise this. I wanted to look at the transcript. On page 1048 and continuing on 1049, Ms. Lee makes reference to a palace coup. She refers, "I use the word palace coup." Then she talks about the instrument of this palace coup is the committee report. Then she goes on to name the members of the committee, including myself.

The implication and the innuendo to this thing is that somehow I am involved, along with other members of the committee, in some palace coup. I find that offensive. I find that absolutely false and unfounded and I ask that the Member apologize and retract that statement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. A point of order has been raised. Are there any comments by the Members on this point of order? The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think what I heard the Member say is that he is raising a point of privilege, not a point of order. Is it a point of order? May I have the permission to make a statement on this point of order?

Ms. Lee, any Member may, in debate, speak on the point of order but I am not going to permit a dialogue back and forth here. If you have something to say on that point, then state it. Other Members will have an opportunity as well to speak on Mr. Handley's point of order. Ms. Lee.

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to state for the House that I do apologize if any of the Members here feel that they are offended by the words used. I believe that the words that we are not supposed to use here are very clearly set out in the rulebook. One of them is to have language that is unparliamentary. I think there is a question as to whether or not the words palace coup are unparliamentary.

I meant what I said when I said in my opinion. This is my opinion and I have a parliamentary privilege to have freedom of expression and freedom of opinion. In my opinion, and what I have heard and seen with my eyes, I cannot think of any other words to describe it in a way that is as apt and appropriate.

I have discussed this with my constituents and the words actually came from my constituents. I just thought that those were good words. I do apologize if this is offensive but, Mr. Speaker, I was speaking on what transpired in this House from the recommendations and debates that came out of the special committee report. I do feel that I have to stand here and be judged by what I say and I am totally prepared to be judged on what I do and what I say in my capacity as the Member for Range Lake.

If anyone would take the time to read the special committee report, there are many allegations and comments made that are totally unparliamentary. I was only responding to that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Ms. Lee, I believe you have gone a bit beyond the point of order here. I guess now you have stopped. Is there anyone else who would like to speak on the point of order? The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would just like to speak in support of the concerns and chagrin and anger expressed by my colleague, Mr. Handley. I as well was on that committee and one of the authors of that report and I stand by it. I stand by every word in that report. There is evidence. There is documentation. Unfortunately, the inflammatory language -- the unnecessary inflammatory language -- in a time that calls for tact, diplomacy, statesmanship and measured comments has done nothing to add to the resolution of the outstanding issues before this House. I think it is truly unfortunate.

I as well did not appreciate all the comments and implications that I am some sort of terrorist engaged in a sort of violent overthrow of a legitimately elected government of which I am a Member, of which I was duly appointed to the committee. We have made great efforts to follow every rule, every requirement to be measured, fair and objective.

Unfortunately, I think Ms. Lee has gone far beyond the bounds of what is civil and in good order for good government. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. To the point of order. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I too rise in support of the point of order. Being a member of this committee, I as well found it offensive to be put in such context that deserved none.

The report was dealt with by this House. All Members had opportunity at that time to deal with that issue. Ms. Lee, in her comments in speaking to the reply to the opening address, continued to retry the information and the report that was done and dealt with by this House. Even as far as this morning, stating again and trying to put the information out there.

I believe every Member has opportunity to deal with their constituents and how they feel about it. However, to paint such a picture of all Members of this House, especially the members of that committee that was appointed by this House, because she does not like the report, I cannot help it if she cannot disengage herself from relationships she has outside of this arena. If she continues to do so, I am very concerned that it would impede on my ability to represent my constituents in matters that are of importance, of good government and accountability and transparency.

I think this is a very serious issue that needs to be clarified so that we can go beyond this issue and get on with good government. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. I will just remind Members that when you are speaking to the point of order, stick to the facts, only the facts and do not go beyond that. To the point of order. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. To the point of order. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, in reply or defence of her comments, Ms. Lee questioned whether or not palace coup is an offensive word. I will tell you, in the context of which she used it, I find it terribly offensive. She also said she will apologize if it is offensive. I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, it is very, very offensive in the context that it is used. Not only am I asking her for an unqualified apology to this, I am asking that these words be taken out, removed from here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Are there any more Members to speak on this point of order? The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Ms. Lee, in responding to the question of whether or not this is a point of order, has said that palace coup is not unparliamentary language. That may be true, but what does palace coup mean? It means an overthrow of a legitimate government by force or the seizing of power by terrorism.

By using those words, she has in fact imputed motive to the five authors of that report, indicating that they are trying to seize force or seize power in this House. I think that alone should make the case for your ruling. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. To the point of order. Are there any other comments on the point of order? Thank you.

Speaker's Ruling

Members of this Assembly, I think it is incumbent on all of us here to observe certain protocols and to treat all Members with due respect when we are making statements. I have read carefully the unedited Hansard, the particular paragraphs that were raised by the honourable Member for Weledeh and other Members of this House. The words that were used by the honourable Member for Range Lake are indeed suggestive of something quite strong, quite violent that the Chair fails to see relevant to the operations of good government in this House. Therefore, from the point of order raised by the honourable Member for Weledeh, the Chair would find that there is a point of order.

As far as what to do with this matter, I think if we deal with it now would be the best time. The Chair has limited options in this matter. The most obvious option is to ask the Member for Range Lake to apologize for the words used and to withdraw those words that were used in her statement yesterday found in the unedited Hansard on pages 1048 and 1049. The honourable Member for Range Lake, are you prepared to apologize to the House and to withdraw those comments?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not mean to in any way challenge the Chair, but may I be advised...

Ms. Lee, the question...

-- Interjection

The question was very specific. There is no room for debate. Will the honourable Member apologize to the House and withdraw those remarks?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the interest of protecting my right to speak here, I will not apologize or retract those words. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. The Chair has another option now, that if a Member is called to order for words spoken in the House or in debate, the words shall be recorded by the Clerk as requested by any Member. Any Member who has used offensive words and does not retract them or explain or apologize to the satisfaction of the Assembly may be censured or dealt with as the Assembly thinks fit.

I will ask the honourable Member again, in light of fairness, if she will apologize and withdraw those remarks from Hansard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe that I cannot function as a Member of this House if I do not have the freedom to speak. I cannot retract that, Mr. Speaker, with all due respect. That is the opinion that I had and I have to stand by it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. I am going to refer to your rules of the House. Under section 25, section (c), naming of a Member:

A Member may be named by the Speaker for disregarding the authority of the Chair or for abusing the rules by persistently and wilfully obstructing the business of this House.

Ms. Lee, you are being named in the House. The Chair will ask you to withdraw from this Chamber for the balance of this day.

Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Thank you, Mr. Antoine. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to inform the House that as of October 1, 2001, the Department of Transportation has introduced a new 1-800 telephone information system for the traveling public on our highway system.

-- Applause

This new telephone system gives the public access to highway and ferry reports 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Unlike the outdated tape recording and answering machine service this replaces, callers have immediate access with no busy signal or waiting time. The new service extends right across Canada, providing highway and ferry information for all regions of the Northwest Territories' transportation system.

Mr. Speaker, effective with the new 2002 NorthwesTel telephone directory, the public of the Northwest Territories will see only one telephone number in their telephone directory. On the old system, people had to know to telephone the correct one of our regional telephone numbers to get the information for the highway or ferry they wanted. The new directory will be released April 1, 2002.

Mr. Speaker, I invite the Members to try the new system at 1-800-661-0750. I am sure they will find the new system is quite an improvement over the old one. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Antoine. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the tabling of the report of the Special Committee on Conflict Process has triggered a number of events that are now before this House. Mr. Speaker, all the issues have been dealt with. The one outstanding issue is the conduct of some of the senior staff in the Premier's office.

Mr. Speaker, we have all been witness to and felt the impact of all the events outside this House that have been initiated to bring a focus to this, to bring pressure to bear on the Members of this Assembly as we try to do the business of government.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to clearly point out some facts as I see them. The general running of government by the Premier and Cabinet is not the issue here for me. As I have said in other forums and I will say here, I believe that I support at least 90 percent of the work, programs and initiatives that the government has undertaken. I may not agree on all the ways that things are being done but for the most part, Mr. Speaker, it is not a question in that area. I will say that publicly here today as I have said in other forums.

What I do have an issue with is a very specific but fundamental issue of what is appropriate conduct for the most senior civil servants in the land, based on the evidence and transcripts that were heard and presented to the special committee. That is an issue that we have to deal with as a House with the Premier and Cabinet. There is time to deal with this issue and I think there is flexibility and room to move. In fact, I believe we are almost halfway there. I understand that the principal secretary has done the honourable thing and tendered his resignation.

Mr. Speaker, we are under a significant amount of pressure to respond. I think it is time for all of us to take a breath and a step back, outside of the heat of the moment and the immediacy of the rapidly unfolding events, as legislators of the Northwest Territories...

Mr. Miltenberger, your time for your Member's statement has expired.

Mr. Speaker, I request unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays but I would just caution Members about Rule 23, section (c), persistent and needless repetition or raising matters which have been decided during the current session. The Chair is sensing that there is drifting in that direction, so I will caution Members not to go that route. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for that guidance. To conclude, Mr. Speaker, I just want to make the point that I think it is important for all of us as legislators to step back and to look at this very carefully. We have time and there is room to move. We want to deal with this issue in a positive way, close the book on this so that we can move on with the very many important issues before this Assembly and with the government. In my mind, if we do this the right way, it should be a question of resounding confidence on Wednesday. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Legislative Assembly press release issued this morning announced that a Territorial Leadership Committee will be held on October 31, 2001, to fill a Cabinet post. Further, it says a yes or no question will be posed on our confidence in the Premier. The vote is to be by secret ballot.

My constituents should know that I do not agree with the process of conducting a secret ballot on the Premier's leadership. I strenuously object to the clear lack of transparency in it. We pay lip service to openness, to transparency and accountability. The people are not stupid. They will see through this and they will judge us harshly and rightly so.

There is no transparency in this process. None. Let us practice what we preach. If we are to have this vote, let the public have the opportunity to hear the question on Premier Kakfwi's leadership, why it needs to be tested, though I personally do not think this is the time for it. However, if it is so, then I am prepared to speak at length on this issue and so should all Members. Let it be open.

The process calls for the Premier to speak for 30 minutes then everyone votes. This is not, in my opinion, a fair process. In such a serious matter, he has 30 minutes to defend his political life.

Let all our electorates see clearly how we have come from investigating a bias complaint to a question of confidence in the Premier, against whom there is no accusation on the floor of any wrongdoing.

Let there be evidence before all residents of the Northwest Territories as to why this vote is needed at this point in time in our politics.

The people deserve to know this. Let each of us speak to this and then cast our ballots on the Premier's leadership in the open. That is transparency.

The Supreme Court Justice commented to me a while back, Mr. Speaker, his feelings of disgust that we still have leadership elections by secret vote. Poignant words from someone of the stature of the Supreme Court Justice. We owe it to the people for them to see how we...

Mr. Ootes, your time for Member's statements has ended.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays, Mr. Ootes, you may conclude.

Thank you, Members. We owe it to the people for them to see how we discharge our responsibilities in this House. Let the light shine on the process. Let this Premier have the full and unrestricted time to speak, if he chooses, to his deeds. Let us have an open debate on tenure if we must and let us have an open vote on his leadership, if we must. Let posterity not have to guess at our deeds but let it judge us because we had the courage to do deeds in the open. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the unfortunate events that have occurred over the last couple of days and the full court press, as some would say, that is being applied to Members from outside this arena is very disappointing indeed.

Mr. Speaker, some Members here may feel that as a result of decisions of this House in the last couple of days, that this event has come to light.

Mr. Speaker, I have very serious, ongoing concerns with what has been occurring. In public, our Premier stated as early as this morning, I believe, and made some other reference -- in public -- to the backroom discussions that are going on in this Assembly and in the halls.

Mr. Speaker, the Premier is well aware of what happens in politics. He has been a Member long enough and he has taken part in that. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I would even state that the backroom goings on and shenanigans are occurring even as we speak today.

To say that does not approach Members of this House, as we have discussed, and put it on the line as to where he stands, instead goes and makes calls to other leaders of this Northwest Territories, calls in the Liberal regime to speak to other Members of this Assembly and we have another Minister of this House stand up and call for a free vote -- Mr. Speaker, I have serious concerns with what is going on here.

Through the Territorial Leadership Committee, Mr. Speaker, we have done, by tradition, voted in a way that is a matter of secret ballot. It has been tradition. Now, suddenly in this one situation, we want to turn it around, ongoing with what has been happening behind closed doors.

Mr. Speaker, I have very seriously considered that in fact, in this situation, we have the pot calling the kettle black. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. I just want to caution Members about the tone that some of the statements are heading in. The Chair does not want to be heavy-handed here, but the use of terms like backroom shenanigans is encroaching on suggesting that there is some malfeasance at work here. I want to ask Members to avoid that. If you have statements to make, which are at your choice, just avoid words like that please.

-- Interjection

Thank you. We have a point of order by the honourable Member for the Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Point of Order

Mr. Speaker, since I was the subject of the honourable Member's comments, I do not accept the tone and the terms that are used to describe what he thinks he heard outside of this Legislature. I ask him to withdraw those if he would, please.

Thank you. I am not certain what the point of order is, Mr. Kakfwi. The Chair did take -- just a second, Mr. Kakfwi -- the Chair did ask the Members to tone down the words being used in order to avoid the continuous points of order raised. What specifically is your point of order, Mr. Kakfwi?

Under our rules of the House, Mr. Speaker, I believe it is section 25, I heard what the Member said and I find some of the words he has used to describe my conduct to be unparliamentary and unacceptable. In keeping with your most recent ruling, I ask him, in the spirit of the House, to withdraw those. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. I will ask again, what specific word or combination of words would you wish withdrawn? To your point of order, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think you referred to them yourself just recently. The word "shenanigans" was one of them. I think those are unacceptable to describe the conduct of any Member and I ask him to withdraw it. If he cannot remember what he said then I will probably have to wait until tomorrow, but I know a Member has just been named recently for refusing to withdraw certain words that were found offensive. I just find this is the same thing. Thank you.

Speaker's Ruling

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. On the point of order, the Member has been specific with the word, the word "shenanigan", which he finds offensive. I would, I guess in the hopes that this could be resolved very quickly rather than have to reserve, I will ask the honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake if he would withdraw that word "shenanigan". Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The particular term the Premier is concerned with, "shenanigans", I will withdraw that and then I will qualify my points from here on in and ensure that I have transcripts of what is actually said. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The matter has now been dealt with, the point of order that the honourable Member for Sahtu has raised, and the specific word "shenanigan" has been withdrawn at the request of the Chair by the honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. That matter is now concluded.

Item 3, Members' statements. Next on my list is the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, to get back to the business of this House, I feel that this government has to do more to ensure that we are receiving the maximum benefit from the oil and gas and diamond activity that is happening in the Northwest Territories. I feel that we have to do more to ensure that industry is living up to its obligations. They put in place benefit agreements and socio-economic agreements, but yet, Mr. Speaker, there is a large segment of our population who are not benefiting from these oil and gas activities.

Mr. Speaker, I am talking about the youth, people between the age of 16 and 25. Those people have to have a feeling of ownership of what is going on around them. They have to have that opportunity of getting that first job and being able to work their way into a specific trade or having the opportunity to be able to take advantage of the opportunities that are there.

We have a lot of young people in our communities who have the potential, but because they do not have that experience on a resume, they are not getting those jobs. I think we have to push industry a little bit to make sure, through this government, through the training and resource dollars we have, to offer training programs -- that we open up that door for those young people in our society to give them that opportunity.

I spent some eight years in the oil and gas industry. I started at the bottom and worked my way up. I was given that opportunity and I made a career out of it. I think that is all we can ask for from this government and for the people that we represent to ensure they have that opportunity like a lot of us have had.

I think industry has to realize that the developments they have are for the future generations that we keep talking about. I think we have to also realize that the opportunities that these developments bring have to be meaningful. We cannot have all the development and start looking at the statistics with regard to how much royalties we are going to get. We have to look at the social implications of what is happening around us, also with regard to oil and gas and diamonds. We see the social problems in our communities. We see the housing shortages in our larger centres because of these developments but as a government, we do not have the resources to take them on.

So with that, Mr. Speaker, I hope the government really thinks about this and I will be asking the Minister questions on this later. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last summer, I was asked by the Premier and Cabinet to serve on the conflict review committee. I agreed with a lot of trepidation because of the serious issues before the committee. I realized at the time that recommendations we would be making and any actions that would follow thereafter could have very serious impacts and implications for people's lives.

I agreed to serve on the committee because I believe the integrity and standards of our government is its very backbone. I took on the task with the thoroughness and the discipline I use in all of my responsibilities. I had, and continue to have, no other motives than good government.

Some people may agree with all of the recommendations or with some of them. Some people may even not agree with any of them, but we did the best job we could. I did the best job I could.

We have debated the report in this House and we voted on the recommendations. Some people here have even questioned my loyalty to the Premier, that I was involved in some sort of coup or overthrow.

Let me say, for the record, that the Premier has my support. If he did not have my support, I would have the dignity to resign and not sit on Cabinet. I could not operate that way.

I want to assure all of the Members and my constituents that I do not operate on ulterior motives or various schemes, or backroom, whatever we want to call them. I operate up front and I will say what I believe and you can believe what I say, because that is where I am coming from.

A lot has happened in the last couple of days in this House and it has caused me a lot of turmoil, a lot of lack of sleep and a lot of concern about what we are here for. I believe that we have to begin now to start to take steps to get this behind us...

Honourable Member, Mr. Handley, your time for your Member's statement has expired.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Handley, you may conclude.

Mr. Speaker, I want to assure all of the Members in the House and my constituents that I do not operate with ulterior motives. I believe we have a full agenda. We have an important agenda in delivering the best programs and services for people that we can. We have a lot of great opportunities in front of us. It is time for us to begin to get back on course and let us do what the people put us here for.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I just want to again say that we need to get on with our purpose here. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to address an issue at this time that affects a great number of residents in Hay River and the surrounding area. The issue I refer to is the condition of the NWT Centennial Library in Hay River.

Mr. Speaker, the Hay River public library has occupied the same building in Hay River for some 30 years. This library has the highest program attendance of all libraries in the Northwest Territories, including Yellowknife. It leads all small libraries in the North in materials lending. The Hay River public library is much more than a simple book-lending service. It has become a highly used community centre, providing for the educational and recreational needs of our youth and all alike. For instance, Mr. Speaker, it had a total program attendance of over 5,000 people in the year 2000.

Mr. Speaker, this Assembly has spent a great deal of resources addressing the needs for literacy in the Northwest Territories. Libraries contribute a great deal towards enabling our residents to become literate.

Mr. Speaker, I believe strongly that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment should revisit its current formula of funding libraries throughout the North. I believe that a more equitable funding arrangement for our libraries would be to have population-based funding. If this funding arrangement meant more money for certain libraries, these additional funds should not come out of the Northwest Territories Library Services budget. If this was done, the libraries throughout the North would suffer as a result. If there was an increase, it should come from extraordinary funding.

I believe it is high time, Mr. Speaker, that this government examines its spending habits and this includes allocating some badly needed funds to our libraries. At the appropriate time, Mr. Speaker, I will have some further questions to the Minister responsible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I stand today to bring concerns expressed by my constituents and their support for the Premier. Realizing that I have only a certain time to speak in my Member's statement, I would like to let you know I will be using my time in item 9, replies to opening address, to expand on this statement. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Steen. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Mr. Speaker, thank you. Like other Members, the events of the past couple of days have caused great concern and among my constituents, the most significant thing that they have been asking is where am I on the very critical issue of confidence in the Premier? I will be issuing a press release later on this morning, Mr. Speaker, and I would like to read this:

Great Slave MLA Bill Braden has declared his confidence and support for Premier Stephen Kakfwi to stay on the job and continue the progressive agenda he has been leading for the past two years. Stephen Kakfwi has had my support since the beginning of the 14th Assembly. I want to make it absolutely clear that I want him to stay. I believe he has the support he needs among the broad Northwest Territories community and among MLAs. I expect that he, and the Assembly, will come out of this confidence issue with a clear mandate to stay the course.

In the October 24th Legislative Assembly debate on the Special Committee on Conflict Process, Mr. Braden supported the Premier and the need for confidence. He has stressed many investor and government agendas that are now underway -- including self-government plans, devolution, pipeline and diamond development -- would be seriously jeopardized by a change in leadership at this critical and challenging time in the Northwest Territories.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Antoine.

Mahsi, Mr. Antoine. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to take a different approach this morning from what has commonly been said this morning. I would like to talk a bit about the majority of my constituents who still depend on the subsistent lifestyle.

As you know, Mr. Speaker, this time of the year is dangerous for travelers on lakes and rivers. Every fall, we seem to have some form of disaster. I want to caution the hunters, trappers and harvesters to continue to take precautions in their travels this early in the season.

I would like to also say that I still like to represent the approximately 22 percent of my riding who still subscribe to that subsistent lifestyle. With that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the opportunity this morning, before the end of this session, to say warm wishes to Edward and Jeannie Lennie, Sam and Margaret Lennie, Roger, Sam and Roseanne, Big Johnnie, Gilligan, Rhoda, Frankie and Charlie and any of those I may have forgotten. I know they are eagerly listening to the radio and their tiny little transistors so I kindly wish them well and have a fine weekend. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Allen. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Premier yesterday has challenged us to be open and up-front as Members. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity today to speak about the issue and the importance of honesty.

With respect to my own conduct, being honest can be as much about what we do not say as what we do say. To not tell the Conflict Commissioner that she was being recorded was not honest and I accept the finding of the special committee and I have responded to the recommendation.

With respect to others' conduct, I do believe there still is a certain amount of unease about honesty as a result of the findings of the special committee. The evidence contained on the tape and in the report regarding the truthfulness of the Conflict of Interest Commissioner's submissions also raises doubts.

I want to say that I have supported our current Premier with loyalty, for which sometimes I have been criticized and even ridiculed. A part of that respect -- pardon me -- and loyalty was based on his high regard for honesty, integrity and fairness. That is why, when I heard the Premier's response to the committee's report regarding the Conflict of Interest Commissioner's report and the Conflict of Interest Commissioner's conduct, I was shaken. When he could have said nothing, abstained from the vote or voted against the recommendation, he said instead, "I do not think I could live with myself if I support this. It is going to severely damage an individual and for what? Is that serious in my mind? I would have to say no."

Mr. Speaker, this hurt me very, very deeply and very personally and is the reason why I am now struggling with that very longstanding and deep respect and loyalty for our Premier. I wanted to be up-front and honest today and tell him that publicly. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today because I believe the Premier of the Northwest Territories has asked Members to either publicly state their displeasure with his leadership or show their support. Mr. Speaker, I have to say, first of all, that I have supported this Premier from the beginning. I continue to support him today, contingent on his ability to act on the fourth recommendation, which was to restore integrity to this government.

Mr. Speaker, in my mind, I will make my decision on Wednesday before voting in a secret ballot as to whether or not the Premier has in fact done this. Mr. Ootes has suggested that a secret ballot is probably not advisable and not desirable, and I am sure those were not his exact words. I wish I could agree with him because I think it would be nice for all of us to stand up and show public support for the Premier in this manner.

Unfortunately, I do know that many Members have been lobbied, some may have even been threatened, and certainly not by Cabinet and not by this Premier, but there are overzealous people who take these kinds of things maybe a little too far, Mr. Speaker. I think the only safe way, the only way I feel safe and I think the only way some Members feel safe, is in a secret ballot vote. That is unfortunate, but if you think of the real reason for secret ballots it is so that we can cast our vote free from threats, free from intimidation. It is one of the underpinnings of this democracy which we so highly value.

Mr. Speaker, I will make my decision based on the Premier's actions between now and Wednesday. If in fact I decide that he has addressed my concerns adequately, I certainly will support him on that ballot because I have never had a problem or quarrel with this Premier, other than what I perceived his response to recommendation number four was when we presented our committee report. Thank you very much, House, for allowing me this chance to publicly state my feelings.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Indeed, congratulations do go to Mr. Sayine. He did serve in the 9th Assembly of this Legislative Assembly. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for the Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to take a moment to make a couple of comments. One is on the recommendation that was passed with regard to the Conflict of Interest Commissioner in this House. I voted as a Member. I voted based on some legal advice I received regarding the recommendation in that report. I thought about it. I knew it would cause tremendous emotional reaction in my former colleague, Jane Groenewegen. I apologize to her. I am just full of apologies these days.

Mr. Speaker, I did not have the opportunity to tell her how I would vote on that as a Member as things have been happening very rapidly in this House. I believe that there should have been notice given to the Member by the Conflict of Interest Commissioner and that we should use due process to evaluate her performance and carry it out in that fashion.

I do not think it should have been done through the special committee. Those were the reasons for my response.

I could tell Members that I have asked the members of the public to indicate to me as a Member of this Legislature, as an MLA and as a Member of this Legislature if in fact public confidence in this government, this Legislature and myself as a Member has been shaken. In no way have I asked anyone to make threats. I simply asked that each member of the public, community leaders and chiefs to ask their MLAs to be categorical and clear on where they stand.

I in no way condone and encourage that I have spoken to individual Members in this House to convey that. I simply want to know, does the public support me? Has their confidence been shaken? I believe that the confidence has been demonstrated and is continuing to be demonstrated to me.

Excuse me, Mr. Kakfwi, your time is up for your Member's Statement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would ask the Members' consent to conclude my remarks.

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his Member's Statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays, Mr. Kakfwi, you may conclude your Member's statement.

Mr. Speaker, as a Member of this House, it is important to me to know whether or not there are suggestions made that the confidence of the public, the voters and the constituents, the leaders, the chiefs, the mayors, the business people of this Territory have been eroded, diminished or vanished as a Member of the Legislature. I want to know that.

So I have asked if in fact it is true on the basis of the decision I would like to make on Monday. I think that it has been amply demonstrated, perhaps not in the way that is acceptable to everyone, but there is tremendous support for this government and it continues to build.

This is a stone, Mr. Speaker, that was sent to me. It is not for throwing but from people who have come together. It says that this is a stone we have used in worship last Sunday as a symbol of the strength of this land.

May I interrupt you, Mr. Kakfwi. Member's statements are to be made on one subject. The Chair has been very lenient in allowing you to wander into at least two, possibly three different subjects here in the time allocated. I am going to call you on this and ask that you conclude your original statement, which dealt with the Conflict of Interest Commissioner and the decision you had made on that. You have gone beyond the one subject. If you want to conclude on your subject in your Member's statement, Mr. Kakfwi, please continue.

Mr. Speaker, in regard to the honourable Member, Mrs. Groenewegen, again I want to reiterate that I have supported her in every way that I could. I have also tried to protect this government and make sure that we conduct ourselves in the best way we can and still live with our conscience. I think she knows the extent to which I have gone to support her. If she has been disappointed and somewhat devastated by my vote on that, I am not sure what to say. I should have at least taken the time to explain but there has been very little time for many things. I just want to extend that to the Member. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. I just want to remind Members that the rule that I did quote here earlier about one subject within the allocated time period. The time for Members' statements has expired. Item 4, returns to written questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

I would like to take this opportunity, colleagues, to recognize the delegation of 12 Russian visitors who are in the Northwest Territories as part of the Institution Building for Northern Russian Indigenous Peoples' Project. These visitors are from three areas of Russia: the Taimyr, the Yamal-Nenets, and Khanty-Mansisk. They are part of a training program that aims to strengthen the economic capacity of selected Russian regional governments by sharing practical Canadian experience with economic development programs and services.

Also traveling with the delegation is:

• • Ms. Diana Merlini, who is with the Canadian International Development Agency, which is funding the project;
• • Ms. Thembi Kamanga-Silundika, who is with Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, which has partnered with the Government of the Northwest Territories on the project; and
• • the two very essential and able interpreters, who I have had the chance to meet, Ms. Ann Mollon and Ms. Irene Saharov.

I would like to welcome you to our Legislative Assembly. Please make them welcome.

-- Applause

I may note that a couple of the members have been here before in 1991 and back again, so welcome to our Assembly and nice to see you.

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would also like to recognize two Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development employees who are with the delegation. I say Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, but they are really Business Credit Corporation, Afzal Currimbhoy and Shannon Roberts. Shannon is one of our interns and a Northerner with a degree in commerce. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to also recognize several people in the gallery. One is Dan Scofield. Dan is the chair of the Yellowknife School District No. 1 and Georgina Rolt-Kaiser, the president of the Union of Northern Workers. Thank you.

-- Applause

Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta Mr. Krutko.

Thank you. I would like to recognize Georgina Rolt-Kaiser, who is the president of the Union of Northern Workers. Welcome to the House.

-- Applause

Thank you. Any further recognitions? I would like to say welcome to everyone who is here and those at home watching.

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development in regard to my statement. I think that as a government, Mr. Speaker, we have to do more to find the means of ensuring that everybody is taking advantage of these opportunities, especially in regard to the oil and gas and the diamond sector. In regard to the different agreements that we have with the oil companies and the diamond socio-economic agreements, they are different benefit agreements that have been signed off between groups and organizations.

I think that as a government, we have to have some sort of policy in place to try to maximize and also make industry aware that we are willing to work along with them as long as we start to see improvements in regard to the hiring, especially of those young individuals between the ages of 25 and 16, to give them those opportunities to get their foot in the door in these different sectors.

I would like to ask the Minister if he is working with industry to establish some sort of an agreement or some sort of policy within this government, or put something in writing so that we are able to make industry live up to these obligations that they talk about when they come up here to do this work.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, we are working with industry on an ongoing basis to ensure that we have maximum northern benefits on any kind of development that is happening. We have socio-economic agreements with the mining companies. We are in the preliminary stages of doing the same thing with oil and gas companies.

Some of these have to be different, Mr. Speaker, because of the nature of the work that is being done, so it is very difficult to have one policy other than a very general, generic policy that would apply to everyone. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a government, we have existing policies already. I think what we have to do here, Mr. Speaker, is we have to find a way to enhance the industries' employment policies and mold them into our government policies so that we can work in conjunction with industry to ensure that we are also working with industry and visa versa. They are working with us to ensure our policies are consistent, that they are user-friendly and that we are meeting the goals we are setting and they are also achieving what they are setting. Are you looking at that possibility?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, yes we are. Both RWED and ECE have been working very closely with industry on that. The best example of a very successful program was the oil rig floorhand training program we ran in Inuvik last summer, which trained people. Those people had to live up to the company's policies, the company's procedures and guidelines and at the same time, live within our guidelines and policies. That is a good example of the kind of training. I anticipate doing more and more of that with exploration companies and certainly with the pipeline companies when we get to that point. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I also believe that we have to involve the aboriginal groups in this regime, who are working on a process called resource revenue sharing. In that process, there is a section which talks about benefit agreements and exactly spells out what those benefit agreements are going to look like through legislation once they devolve to this government.

I would like to ask the Minister, do you have someone within your department working along with the aboriginal groups and the federal government to ensure that when those transfers take place, the legislation that we have will fall into place so that all our legislation we have in place right now will be consistent all the way through, so we will be able to meet the goals and objectives we set through that legislation?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Handley.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I agree with the points by the Member and I can assure him that we do have people in RWED who are working in that direction. In particular, I will make reference to the committee of deputies, headed by my deputy minister of RWED. That committee is looking at how we fit the Gwich'in economic measures into the oil and gas training that may be happening in that area, among other things that the same committee is looking at. We continue to place a great deal of emphasis on that and certainly include the aboriginal organizations. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko, your short, final supplementary.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister touched on my second supplementary. My final supplementary was the whole economic measures section of different land claim agreements. In the Inuvialuit, you have participation agreements and in the Gwich'in and Sahtu agreements, and then in the Dogrib agreement there is an economic section. I think the government has to also ensure there is speedy legislation in place to ensure those obligations are met.

I would like to ask the Minister exactly where are we in trying to ensure that legislation is put in place so that it does fall in line with other legislation that we have?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Resources, Wildlife and Economic Development, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, we are not at the point yet where we have begun drafting legislation, although I understand from Mr. McLeod that the committee has met with the Gwich'in and I believe some of the Sahtu people and have agreed to an MOU of how they are going to arrive at that point. I do not know that that MOU is finalized at this date but I know they have had those discussions. Thank you.