Thank you, Mr. Cleveland. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. From what Mr. Cleveland says, I assume we are not doing anything in the junior high level right now, but this says we will expand trades-related programs offered in junior secondary schools. Is that the case? We are not doing anything now but we are in fact looking at expanding into the junior secondary schools? What sort of programs can we offer for students in the secondary schools that they actually would be able to get into in trades training?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Cleveland.

Thank you, Mr. Cleveland. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think we are all very supportive of seeing an expansion in what is being offered to young people of the North for trades training. I would expect that if the department is going to expand what is available, they are going to have to increase the resources that they are putting into this. Is the department actually adding any resources here, or are the divisional education councils expected to pick up the slack, for instance, when SNAP is instituted, say in Inuvik. Does the department provide extra funding for that program?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess I would have to question the department's commitment to expanding the apprenticeship availability in the Northwest Territories if we are not going to put more into it. In fact, I think, Mr. Chairman, if you look at the detail that follows page 9-11, you will see on page 9-12 that there is actually $411,000 less in the line for apprenticeship programs. I recognize this is the result of sunsetting training agreements and that is where it comes from, but I would argue that if there was a real commitment to expand what is being provided for apprenticeship training, we would have at least left the $411,000 there so we could put it into expanding those services that Northerners can see.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The funding change, Mr. Chairman, was from sunsetting in the diamond training area. We are noticing an uptake of interest in the apprenticeship area and certainly that is an area, but that does not relate directly to the school area, Mr. Chairman. We have noticed in the career centres some reported increased activity for individuals interested in going into the trades and apprenticeships.

We are also using the expanded use of federal funding that comes to us through the labour market development agreement. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Bell.

Thank you. I would also like to speak to the issue of apprenticeships. In the Premier's comments in his address to the people of the NWT, he mentioned, as Mr. Ootes has just referenced, this concept of fast-tracking students into trades.

I would like to get some kind of definition from the Minister as to exactly what fast-tracking entails. I think there is a fear out there, especially among some parents, that this means that somehow we are going to water academics down to get students into trades more quickly. I think, as the Minister or the deputy indicated, we have a standard in the country, red seal certification, that allows for mobility. I think you need certain academic courses, as I understand it, to get the red seal and allow yourself this mobility. Certainly people do not really want to see us watering down academics at all. I think there is really a problem with this.

The Minister has indicated that there is increasing interest in this area, and I think that is great, because I think for a long time interest had been waning. I think parents had a lot to do with this. Parents seemed to want their kids to go into what was perceived to be white-collar occupations, but clearly, especially in the Northwest Territories with the opportunities we have in the trades areas, not to mention when you go up to mine sites and other areas and see the kind of money that these jobs pay, it is critical that we are able to fill these jobs with Northerners.

Parents are starting to come around and realize that the trades are very important, and maybe urging their kids in this direction. I think that has a lot to do with the increasing interest.

I would like the Minister to reassure us that we are not talking about watering down academics. Could he explain what he means by fast-tracking? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member raises a good question that is important to address. By no means are we there to suggest that we are going to lower standards and to water down the academic programs nor the standards to get into apprenticeships and so forth. That is not the intent. The intent is to ensure students who wish to pursue a career in the trades and in the apprenticeships have the opportunity to do so.

It is becoming very well known throughout the Territories that we have opportunities for employment in that particular area. There is good income to be had from employment as a tradesperson and secure employment with the kind of activity that is taking place in the resource areas.

Certainly our intent is to uphold all of the standards that are in place. It is important from our perspective as well because on a national basis, we want to ensure our students -- those who do have occupational certification and trades certificates -- have the ability to be mobile throughout Canada. That is one of the criteria that, on a provincial and federal and territorial level, we are working towards. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Bell.

Thank you. I would like to touch on another area. In discussions with people in the field and also with my constituents, everybody seems to acknowledge that dollars are tight. We are talking about expanding trades-related programs. Clearly we do not have the money to start putting shops and these kinds of things into all the high schools in the North and piling a bunch of money into equipment so that students can train on this equipment.

It has also been suggested to me that instead of doing this, what we really need to do is to focus more on partnering with the private sector. Obviously, there are already shops and things around in the communities and in Yellowknife that students can train at. It has been indicated to me that partnerships with the private sector will be critical.

If a student is working part-time in a business, they understand what the working environment is going to be like. It is not training in a trade half-time from noon to 3:00, and when school is out you are gone. That may not give you an accurate picture of what it is like to work in the private sector, work hard and work long days.

I would like the Minister to speak specifically to partnerships with the private sector and talk about the direction he sees the department going in. Also, whether or not this means putting a lot of money into equipment and machinery into schools, or if in fact we are talking about developing and fostering partnerships. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do have some challenges in the whole area of accessing equipment. Equipment today is very expensive, and there is a requirement, if we are going to have our students enter into these areas, for modern equipment to be available for them to be trained on. Equipment today has a lot of technology associated with it.

It is our intention to look at partnerships. It is a mechanism by which we could look at accessing equipment. As a matter of fact, it is interesting that the Member should raise it. Just today, I met with the directors of the Yellowknife Chamber of Commerce, who are interested in this whole area and seeing how they can play a role and participate in this area. They expressed their interest in ensuring that our facilities do have the appropriate equipment for students to train on. We discussed this at some length, of seeing how we could proceed and the kind of partnerships they could formulate with this.

We do have certain space availability in various locations, some of the central locations in the larger communities. The difficulty is that the equipment is out of date. That is what has to be upgraded if we are going to proceed with this. Our interest is there to work towards ensuring that we get that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Bell.

Thank you. I would like to urge the Minister and the department to continue in this direction. From my experience at university, it seemed that there were always advertisements for co-op programs. One of the selling points was when you looked at the statistics of students who graduated from university and their level of employment compared to students who graduated from university with an extra six months or a year of co-op involvement, it was night and day. Almost 98 percent of the co-op students had jobs when they left university. I think it was because it helps them overcome the hurdle of the situation that when you graduate from school, you have a piece of paper and an education, yet you have no experience.

I think this really helps solve that problem. I would like to urge the Minister to continue to work hard to develop partnerships with the private sector. I am glad to hear that he is going down this road. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. General comments. Mr. Miltenberger.