Debates of Feb. 28th, 2001

This is page numbers 1331 - 1396 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.

Topics

Members Present

Item 1: Prayer

Personal Property Registry System

Provision Of Public Weather Forecasts

Community Development And Log Home Construction

Eligibility For Fuel Cost Rebate

Pension Legislation

Important Contributions Of Northern Volunteers

Municipal Funding Formula Inequities

Heart And Stroke Month

Achievements And Opportunities For The NWT Power Corporation

Apprehension Of Children By Child And Family Services

2000 Student Support Needs Assessment

Support For The Highway Investment Strategy

Item 4: Returns To Oral Questions

Northwest Territories Log Home Industry

Stanton Hospital Surgical Ward

Fuel Rebate Proposal Details

Public Weather Services In The Nwt

Child And Family Services Programs

Modelling Pension Legislation After Ontario

Impact Benefit Agreement Payments As Income

Fuel Rebate Proposal

Seniors' Fuel Subsidy

Fuel Rebate Proposal

Fuel Rebate Proposal Implementation

Seniors' Fuel Subsidy Eligibility

Fuel Rebate Proposal Implementation

Consultation On Fuel Rebate Proposal

Bill 21: An Act To Amend The Labour Standards Act

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Wildlife And Environmental Protection Funding

Recommendation 1

Hotel Room Tax And Tourism Strategy

Oil And Gas And Other Sectors

Item 20: Report Of The Committee Of The Whole

Item 22: Orders Of The Day

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The department is working with Health and Social Services on the Early Childhood Development Plan. There are some good programs already out in the public, Mr. Chairman.

The Aboriginal Head Start is a good program. Some of these programs are federally funded. We in the territorial government have a number of programs as well. I referred to them yesterday. We put approximately $4 million into early childhood programs, which is for day care subsidies, start up, and operations and maintenance costs, as well as subsidy programs for individuals.

It is a challenge for us to ensure that we provide programs that are appropriately addressed throughout the Territories for young children. That has been the underlying thrust between our efforts of Health and Social Services and Education, to develop within the Early Childhood Development Action Plan, which will be brought forward within several months.

I appreciate the Member's concern in that area and he does have a legitimate concern. Individuals who do go to work need the opportunity to look at having appropriate day care systems in place. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

February 28th, 2001

Page 1362

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

I think our microphone and our camera system has locked onto me, Mr. Chairman.

-- Laughter

I might be beamed somewhere else shortly.

-- Laughter

A five-minute break, Mr. Chairman?

-- Break

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Paul Delorey

I will call the committee back to order. We are on page 9-11, advanced education and careers, operations expense, total operations expense, $66,603,000. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Just going on a little further from my colleague, Mr. Dent, in this area of other expenses. When the Minister was stating some of the larger expenses included in other expenses, I was taking some note. When I looked over to page 9-12, program delivery details, some of the numbers given do not correspond with those that are lined up in program delivery details.

I know that there is some additional information that is included here but, for example, under income support, the Minister stated $13,310,000. Under income assistance programs, it is $18,465,000. Student financial assistance is $11.1 million. So there are some differences there. When we try to reconcile the program delivery details of $58 million with the total operations expense of advanced education and careers, $66 million, we are still left with some dollars there.

Can we get an explanation of that? Is the $58 million dedicated to regions and communities and the other dollars are dedicated to headquarters? Something of that nature, Mr. Chairman?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1362

Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, it relates to corporate and regional headquarters. However, I will ask Mr. Devitt to explain that in further detail.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Devitt.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Devitt

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Minister is correct. The figures on 9-12 exclude corporate costs, which are largely the salary and operating costs of headquarters and regional non-delivery personnel. So they would include the salaries of delivery personnel, grants and contribution and other operations and maintenance.

The other operations and maintenance figures that were quoted by the Minister were just some of the larger amounts. So in addition to the amounts, for example in income support, there would be costs such as the senior supplementary benefit, wood fuel subsidy, et cetera in there. We were just mentioning some of the larger amounts. Thank you.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Devitt. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So in the earlier response the Minister gave to Mr. Dent under seniors, it was $1,953,000, that is included in the $18.4 million sort of thing?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ootes.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Yes, that is correct, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. Roland.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Floyd Roland Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to point out the concerns at times with approving numbers that are put before us, we are looking at $66 million total for advanced education, culture and careers, which includes grants and contributions, compensation benefits, and other expenses.

Then when we look at program details, we are looking at $58.6 million, and then when we look at grants and contributions, we are looking at another $34 million. It is rather confusing to try to line those numbers up with what we are being asked to approve in the total operations and expense.

I heard the Minister earlier state that this is an area that we need to take up with the Minister responsible for Financial Management Board Secretariat. I think at some point, I do not know if it is by recommendation or by motion in committee of the whole regarding the whole budget document, because there are a number of areas that are like this that are inconsistent throughout the document, which is hard to balance. If you were not somebody who got the back-up details, residents of the Northwest Territories getting this information would not be able to reconcile that. It would be very difficult.

So I do not think that it would be appropriate just for one department, but I do not know if there is a process near the end of this. I will seek information from others as we go through this process, when this might be the appropriate time to take it up. It has been brought up a number of times before. I think we need to start to clarify that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Roland. General comments, mostly. Did you want to respond to any of that, Mr. Ootes?

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

No thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe the Member was making a comment in that regard. We will address that later.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

Page 1363

The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. I have Mr. McLeod, but I want to go back to Mr. Nitah. He was on the list when the system went down. Mr. Nitah.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Getting back to the need for day care centres in the Northwest Territories. On our unscheduled break, we had an opportunity to listen to the news. One of the stories that was aired was the hospitalizations of people in Canada. In the South, a lot of them have to do with problems of the heart. In the Northwest Territories, the majority of people in the hospitals are there for giving birth.

There is a need. I acknowledge that the Minister has agreed with me, almost echoing what I said in answering the question that I posed to him.

What is the department doing in conjunction with other departments of this government and other governments of Canada in building infrastructure in the communities that could be used as day cares?

There is a Tinkering Tot program in Lutselk'e. It is in the community hall. It is very difficult to utilize the community hall because of Tinkering Tots. When there is something scheduled, the Tinkering Tots program suffers. I understand there are programs that the government has out there in early childhood development, but those programs are for educational purposes. What I am talking about is day cares for infancy all the way up to the age of ten or beyond. What is the department doing outside of the programs they are currently delivering to create infrastructure that could be utilized as day cares in northern communities? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Chairman, I think I have to point out, and I mentioned before, that the Minister of Health and Social Services and I are developing an early childhood development plan that has $2 million identified in it. That plan will be forthcoming within several months. Certainly we will be sharing it with the Members as we finalize this and we can, at an appropriate time, share it with the Members once we have agreed to it Cabinet-wise. So that is the area that our effort is concentrated in, is to deal with issues such as Mr. Nitah has mentioned here.

The Early Childhood Development Action Plan has four priority areas. It deals with community supports; early childhood care and learning; pregnancies, births and infancy; parenting and family supports. Also included amongst those four headings is the issue of day cares. However, we are not in a position today to say we can do this or that beyond the programs that we already have. As I stated, we do have programs in place to support day care programs in terms of providing financial support for start-up operations and O and M operation costs, Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Nitah.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to seeing the plans that the Minister is working with the Minister of Health and Social Services on, a $2 million plan. He explained some of the parameters, but that $2 million will just get lost in those programs he has identified.

I am talking about infrastructure in the communities. You could have a $10 million O and M budget, but if there is no building to maintain, what is the point? We need infrastructure in the communities.

We need to develop a place with a roof and four walls and heat that could be utilized as day cares. We do not have those infrastructures in the communities. We are encouraging people to work in the non-renewable sectors. That means flying out of the community for a period of time, mostly two and two, some work three and one. During that time, the parent who is at home cannot get to work because there are no babysitters and there is no place for a facility to be used for babysitter services, for day care.

The Minister may not have a plan right now, but can he commit at the very least to looking at working with other departments for developing infrastructure in the communities? Even in Yellowknife, Mr. Chairman, I am currently a single parent myself. I am having great difficulty getting babysitters. I am making do, but it is not a healthy environment for my children. That is what I am forced to do. In the communities, it is even worse. Everybody is busy, so you miss work. All the training, all the investment dollars that are placed into these individuals is gone. They are back on the social envelope. They are back in line with income support. I am just wondering if the Minister would commit right now to working with other departments, with Housing, with Municipal and Community Affairs, to develop infrastructures into communities so that day cares could be utilized? Thank you Mr. Chairman.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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The Chair Paul Delorey

Thank you, Mr. Nitah. Mr. Minister.

Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters

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Jake Ootes Yellowknife Centre

Thank you Mr. Chairman. I am sure that as the Social Envelope Committee, it is a subject that we will take up as an issue to ensure appropriate work is done at this particular important area, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Debates of Feb. 28th, 2001

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