Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Please be seated. Good afternoon, colleagues. Before we go to Ministers' statements, I am pleased to recognize this week as Public Service Week across Canada. This week, we recognize the employees for their dedicated service to the public sector.

The Legislative Assembly marked Public Service Week with long service awards handed out to our current Legislative Assembly employees with ten or more years of government service. The following people received their ten-year long service award: John Anderson, Donna Friesen, Dave Inch, Glen McLean, Vera Raschke, Doug Schauerte and Brian Thagard.

Myles Moreside and Karen Short both received their 15-year long service award, and the Clerk of our Assembly, Mr. David Hamilton, received both his 20-year and 25-year long service award. Congratulations to all of the award winners. We appreciate all of your hard work and we look forward to your continued dedication to the Government of the Northwest Territories and to this Legislative Assembly.

-- Applause

Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Transportation, Minister Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good afternoon. Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure today to report to the Legislative Assembly on my presentation in Yellowknife on March 27, 2001, to the Canada Transportation Act Review Panel.

The panel was appointed by the federal Minister of Transportation in June 2000 to undertake a comprehensive review of the Canada Transportation Act and related legislation. The focus of the review was competitive rail access and the overall effectiveness of the current legislation and regulatory framework in dealing with public policy issues. The panel also welcomed recommendations related to other modes of transportation.

Over the past year, the panel met with interested parties in each province and territory and has since received over 190

written submissions. Based on the extensive consultation, submissions received, and their own research, the panel's final recommendations to the federal Minister of Transport will be compiled in a report scheduled to be completed by June 30, 2001.

Mr. Speaker, my presentation to the panel included the following key recommendations on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories.

First, the Government of the Northwest Territories recommended that section 5 of the Canada Transportation Act be amended to present a clear vision for a national transportation system that puts citizens' interests first, that describes the Government of Canada's interests, role and commitment to the national transportation system, and that assigns departmental or agency responsibility to meet the federal commitment. We urged the panel to recommend to the federal Minister of Transport that any revision to the national transportation policy account for regional differences in transportation needs and recognition that Canada's various jurisdictions, large and small, provincial and territorial, have differing capacities to participate in the delivery of policy at the national level.

Second, a key recommendation focused on the allocation formula for federal funds under a national transportation investment strategy. A per capita allocation formula for national infrastructure programs seriously disadvantages sparsely populated northern territories. The Government of the Northwest Territories strongly urged the panel to recommend to the federal Minister of Transport that the formula for allocation of federal transportation-related funds be established on need-based criteria other than strict per capita allocation.

Finally, the Government of the Northwest Territories strongly urged the panel to recommend that the federal government should have a defined role in road transportation, the most important transportation mode in Canada. In particular, through a new vision for transportation in Canada and through a new national transportation policy, the federal government should take the bold initiative of earlier governments and use its spending power to tie Canada together from sea to sea to sea, and to facilitate the development of the North's huge non-renewable resource potential.

Mr. Speaker, I hope the panel finds our recommendations worthy of inclusion in their report. After the federal Minister of Transport receives the report, he will then consider the recommendations and decide what revisions and amendments to the Canada Transportation Act would be appropriate. I will advise the House of these developments as they occur.

At the appropriate time, Mr. Speaker, I will be tabling a copy of the Government of the Northwest Territories submission to the Canada Transportation Act Review Panel. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for the Sahtu, Mr. Kakfwi.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to use my time today to read you a report on a trip, prepared by Vital Manuel. Vital has been a constituency worker of mine for several years, assisting the office staff and helping with constituency work. He has also served for some years as a page for this Assembly.

Recently, Vital attended the Alberta Special Olympic Summer Games and, with his team members, won a bronze medal. I would like to read his report, if I may.

Mr. Speaker, this is addressed to Premier Stephen Kakfwi:

My trip to the Alberta Special Olympic Summer Games

The games were held in Calgary May 11th to 13th. I was chosen to be part of the NWT Special Olympics five-pin bowling contingent. I was one of the ten bowlers chosen. The bowlers were made up of two teams. Team one consisted of Danny Tanche, Gabrielle Nukapiak, Julie White, Clara Tutcho and Corey Foot. Team two was made up of Corinne Lafferty, Monica Felix, Janet Berard and Mervin Olikoak and myself.

We all trained out of Yellowknife under head coach Judy Russell and coach Lynell Broadbent. The coaches accompanied the team. We did a lot of practising before we went to the games. We trained hard because we knew we were competing against 405 bowlers from across Alberta.

We left Yellowknife by plane about seven o'clock Friday morning, May 11th, and returned about eleven o'clock Sunday night, May 13th.

In Calgary, we stayed at the University residence with all the other athletes. We all felt proud of our performance at the games. Team one won a gold medal and Team two won a bronze medal. In addition, there were several individual team member medals, including one gold medal, three silver medals and two bronze medals. We all shared the successes.

For me, I felt proud to be representing my city and my Territory. I also felt that it would make my parents feel good to know that they gave me the strength and encouragement to be the best I can be. As well, it helps everyone understand that people with disabilities are whole people like everyone else, who live full lives and contribute to society. I was grateful for the opportunity...

Mr. Kakfwi, the time for your Member's statement has expired.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I was grateful for the opportunity, and I hope that our team will do well at the National Summer Games that will take place in Prince Albert, Saskatchewan next summer.

I am also grateful that you asked me to share this story with you. You have been a great support to me and a great role model for me. I feel truly privileged.

Respectfully submitted,

Vital Manuel

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you very much, Mr. Kakfwi, and congratulations, Vital. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, last week in the House, I raised the issue of the Minister of Justice's intention to make a direct political appointment to the warden's position of the Territorial Women's Correctional Centre.

Mr. Speaker, this issue is still out there. The concerns are still there. In fact, I can communicate to this House that the community is basically in an uproar over this particular matter. The Minister and the government are seen to be totally bypassing hiring processes, bypassing the issue of experience and qualifications, even bypassing the Department of Justice, I understand. Not to mention qualified Northerners who may be out there and would be interested in this particular job.

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to reiterate the concern. This is one of the flagship programs for the Department of Corrections. It has an excellent staff, an excellent warden and reputation, and a program that is the envy of all other jurisdictions in Canada.

By making this kind of direct, political appointment, the Minister is putting that particular program at risk, in my opinion. I have had the community leadership indicate to me, I have had staff indicate to me and many constituents indicate to me their concern about the issue and the fact that this is being done in such a way. When the Minister is here during question period, I want to ask him if he will reconsider and do the right thing, put this position back out to public competition and let the job be won by the most qualified, able and experienced Northerner. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for the Deh Cho, Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Speaker, I have a statement regarding the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation and the Expanded Down Payment Assistance Program, also known as EDAP. Mr. Speaker, the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation states that its overall objection is to help families and individuals obtain homes that meet their specific needs. Yet the EDAP program fails to meet the specific needs of the families and individuals of the smaller communities in the North.

Mr. Speaker, the EDAP program was introduced by the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, replacing six other programs that the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation previously offered. These programs were the Down Payment Assistance Program, the Purchase Program, the Access Program, the Forgivable Loan Program, the Direct Lend Program and the Home Improvement Program.

However, the consolidation of many programs into one has left significant gaps in the coverage offered by the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. First, the EDAP program requires that clients arrange conventional bank financing or private mortgages, and cover the portion of costs that are not covered by the corporation under the program. EDAP clients have to privately finance between 95 percent and 30 percent of their new home.

There are no banks or financial institutions in most of the communities in the North. In such instances, it is difficult, if not impossible, for residents to make private arrangements. Also, in many small communities, a greater number of residents are engaged in seasonal work or a multitude of part-time occupations, as opposed to larger centres where there is a greater percentage of residents employed full-time by government agencies.

Residents engaged in seasonal work find it harder to obtain even the smallest private mortgage, a prerequisite of the EDAP program. Therefore, the EDAP program does not meet the mandate of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation in that it fails to meet the specific needs of the residents of the smaller communities.

Mr. Speaker, the EDAP program is primarily suited to larger regional centres and appears to be of limited use to the residents of other communities in the North. The reason that it is so important that the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation develops an appropriate program for all residents in the Northwest Territories is that the housing program in the North is getting worse, in absolute terms, rather than better.

According to the Northwest Territories Housing Needs Survey 2000, the number of households found to be in core need in the Northwest Territories had increased by 237...

Mr. McLeod, the time allocated for your statement has expired.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There being no nays, Mr. McLeod, you may conclude.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in the smaller communities, the economy is less well-developed and more intervention is required. Let me illustrate this with an example from my riding of the Deh Cho, Mr. Speaker. The Northwest Territories Housing Needs Survey 2000 states that the Hay River Reserve has the highest proportion of core need in the entire South Slave district at a tragic rate of 61 percent. The community of Enterprise follows closely with a rate of 54 percent. The community that I come from, Mr. Speaker, Fort Providence, has a rate of 40 percent. Compare these rates to 11 percent for Yellowknife and 14 percent for Fort Smith, Inuvik, and the town of Hay River.

Mr. Speaker, it is time for this government to get serious about the housing problem in the Northwest Territories. We cannot simply ignore the problem and hope it will go away. The challenge for the Minister of Housing and the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation is to develop an appropriate program that will address the needs of our population in a meaningful way. Let us do it now, Mr. Speaker, and not allow another generation to grow up in substandard housing conditions. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to stand today to speak again on the importance of the volunteer sector here in the Northwest Territories. We need to recognize the tremendous contribution of volunteers, especially in this, the International Year of Volunteers. They are young and old, male and female, black hair, grey hair, red hair, no hair, or even green hair, as I might have later on when I volunteer for Cops for Cancer, Mr. Speaker. They care about people. They want and they can make a difference in the lives of others, as well as their own.

Statistics tell us that Northerners lead almost all other Canadians in volunteer activity. According to the 1999 Labour Force Survey, 41 percent of Northerners participated as volunteers during 1998. There are 571 registered, non-government organizations, or NGOs, or not-for-profit groups in the Northwest Territories. These groups and many more that are not registered under the Societies Act are collectively referred to as the volunteer sector.

Mr. Speaker, these volunteer groups generate a surprising 1,732 jobs. They represent six percent of our labour force, with $69 million in salaries. What other benefits does government receive from this third sector, as the volunteer sector is sometimes called?

They provide a tremendous range of programs and services to the residents. They play an important role in supporting active citizenship and well-being. Mr. Speaker, I believe this government could do a better job of supporting them.

For instance, many groups do not know by the close of their fiscal year whether they will be able to have continued funding for the following year and can indeed keep their doors open. We as a government must provide timely and adequate funding and let those groups get on with their program delivery. Multi-year funding agreements should be the norm when there is an established track record and a history of results.

With regard to value for money, I wish I could get as good a rate of return as this government gets for its contributions to non-government organizations. They are experts on leveraging funds from the federal government, the private sector, and fundraising in various foundations. They might even be able to give the Minister of Finance a few tips on this matter.

I believe we need to do our part for the non-government organizations in support of long-term funding programs. That is my message, Mr. Speaker. We need to form a new relationship with our volunteers, recognizing the vital role they play in our society. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we as Members of this House, as elected representatives of the people, are here to account for the actions of this government. Mr. Speaker, there have been several issues I have had a lot of problems with, especially when you find out that projects have been deferred in Member's ridings without the Member being notified or aware of these issues.

We hear of new initiatives through appropriations to the tune of $56 million, yet many of these initiatives are not previously authorized to the tune of $33 million.

Mr. Speaker, we have a role in this House. We all play a role with regard to Members and committees within this Legislature, where we have a process of involvement. We have a process to ensure we have accountability of departments and expenditures by departments. Also, a process for the public to take in regard to the business planning process.

Mr. Speaker, a lot of these initiatives that are presently in front of us are all new initiatives. A lot of these initiatives have not even been informed to Members or committees, but yet, Mr. Speaker, they continue to happen.

Mr. Speaker, there is a reason for all of these processes. We have policies in the way transfers will take place and how Members and committees will be informed on how those transfers have taken place, and given the opportunity to affected Members that those transfers will be reinstated some time down the road, that the money will not be totally taken away from your riding without your involvement or without you having a say in the matter.

Yet, Mr. Speaker, it seems like there has been, in regard to how these processes changed drastically from the previous Assembly. Mr. Speaker, we as Members in this House, who are on committees and what not, are finding it difficult to react to issues that are new initiatives that we are not even made aware of. As a government, we have to be more open to the people out there and more open to the Members of this House.

I think it is important that when we do have these new initiatives, when we make these new expenditures, we should allow...

Mr. Krutko, the time for your Member's statement has expired.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. You may conclude.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. I for one feel that we do have to allow for a public process or a committee process to do its job to ensure that these new public expenditures and initiatives happen through some process that we have input into, not reacting to issues after the fact.

With that, Mr. Speaker, I will ask the Minister responsible for Finance questions later.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I want to speak a little about tax policy. I think we have had extensive discussion on tax policy, specifically the committee the Minister is setting up to look at personal income tax, the TONI committee, I believe it is called. TONI, as we know, will allow us some flexibility in setting up our own tax regime, and we are simply following other jurisdictions.

I would like to talk a little bit about small business tax, Mr. Speaker. The media has picked up recently on some comments made by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. I know that currently there is a review of BIP underway, and I believe recommendations have come before Cabinet.

One thing that interested me in the initial review of BIP was a comment that reducing the small business tax rate in the Northwest Territories from its current five percent to zero percent would only cost the GNWT in lost revenues $1.6 million per year, Mr. Speaker. That is not very much. It is really a minimal cost when you factor in the companies that might relocate because of the advantage and file taxes in the North.

Obviously we would not collect more taxes, but when you look at this in terms of job creation and spending from small business, I think it is clear that this is something we would want to move toward, Mr. Speaker.

The Canadian Federation of Independent Business, which apparently represents 200 northern firms, has stated that the Northwest Territories used to be an attractive jurisdiction to file taxes in, Mr. Speaker, and that is no longer the case. They have indicated that while the Northwest Territories is at 5 percent, other jurisdictions like B.C. at 4.5 percent, Ontario at 4 percent, and Alberta, the lowest at 3.5 percent, are clearly leading the pack now, Mr. Speaker.

In the past, I have also commented on thresholds for small business and suggested that we might want to look at our $200,000 per year taxable income threshold for small business and raise it to something more in line with $400,000 or so, Mr. Speaker.

At this time, I would like to urge the Minister to come forward quickly with tax relief for small business. I think we all know about the Alberta advantage but, Mr. Speaker, let us make sure that we do not get too familiar with the Northwest Territories disadvantage that they are currently talking about with regard to small business tax rates. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today to address an issue that affects our seniors population in the North. Mr. Speaker, I thought this would be particularly appropriate at this time, as just last week, during Seniors' Week, we spoke so eloquently in this House about how this government should fully support our seniors.

The issue I wish to draw your attention to, Mr. Speaker, is the issue of property tax relief for seniors. Mr. Speaker, senior citizens and disabled persons may apply for property tax relief under the Senior Citizens and Disabled Persons Property Tax Relief Act. Mr. Speaker, in tax-based communities such as Hay River, MACA provides 50 percent of the property tax relief and local governments in the communities provide the other 50 percent. In other communities, MACA provides property tax relief directly to the eligible property owners.

Mr. Speaker, a concern was raised to me recently that a senior citizen in Hay River, and a constituent of mine, who had reached the age of 65 had to pay the full amount of the property tax for the coming year. This was due to the fact that his spouse was still working.

Mr. Speaker, the Senior Citizens and Disabled Persons Property Tax Relief Act basically states that if one member of the household is working, then this family member is not dependent on the senior citizen, thus the senior citizen does not require any support from this government to pay his bills.

Mr. Speaker, this act was written back in 1989 and does not reflect the true cost of living today or the cost of maintaining a home. I suggest that this act be changed. If we need to justify the change, Mr. Speaker, we can borrow a line used by our honourable Finance Minister. When looking for support to increase the BCC loan limit from $1 million to $2 million, he said, "This limit has been in place for roughly ten years. Accordingly, it is time for change."

Mr. Speaker, residents in the nine NWT communities do not pay property tax. I think it is inappropriate for this government to penalize senior citizens who live in tax-based communities by making them pay the full amount of their property tax. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I as well would like to speak on the strategies, planning and implementation of those by our government.

Mr. Speaker, it is an issue I have raised in the past and I have told my constituents that we have heard enough of studies, strategy and planning. It is time to put some dollars on the road so we can get something done.

Mr. Speaker, I have a number of examples of our strategies and planning where, on one hand, we say we are going to get some input from you because we have this Intergovernmental Forum Secretariat or this consultant to do some work. On the other hand, we are giving money away.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, many people will take that money. Mr. Speaker, it is an ongoing problem from past governments and we seem to have gotten into the habit that I consider to be a bad one. We are spending before we know exactly what the map is going to look like.

A couple of examples, Mr. Speaker. The Cuff report is coming out near the end of this month, days after the Social Agenda Conference. We have an Intergovernmental Forum Secretariat that is looking at regional reorganization and what the government will look like after self-government starts to take hold in the Northwest Territories. On the other hand, we already have departments implementing some of their own plans.

Mr. Speaker, another example. Yesterday, during committee of the whole review, there was discussion on some expenditures put forward by this government that were not supplementary. One is in the area of transportation, and it referred to strategy 7 in the Non-Renewable Resource Development Strategy, Mr. Speaker. It was on airport planning and development.

Mr. Speaker, I had an opportunity last night to go through the Non-Renewable Resource Development Strategy. It is quite specific. It identifies what strategy 7 is. Mr. Speaker, strategy 7 is strictly highways. It lists the highways up and down the valley and says we are going to do work on those highways and prepare for the development of the Northwest Territories.

There are a number of other issues that were identified under the Non-Renewable Resource Development Strategy as reasons for expenditures. Mr. Speaker, that strategy has not been fully adopted. It was shopped to the federal government and we have maybe one percent of a down payment, as it was called, in this past winter's session.

Mr. Roland, the time for your Member's statement has expired.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays, Mr. Roland. You may conclude.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, while we have little more than two years left in this government, we have talked about what we want to do for residents of the Northwest Territories. I urge this government to now start taking concrete action. Action that will see resources going to residents of the Northwest Territories, whether it is front-line workers or businesses, to take advantage of the resource development that is going on. With that, Mr. Speaker, I will have questions to the appropriate Minister. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Item 3, Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Nitah.

Mr. Nitah, the time for your Member's statement has ended. Perhaps you could just repeat that last paragraph if you get unanimous consent.

Thank you. The honourable Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There being no nays, Mr. Nitah, you may conclude that last paragraph for sure.

Mahsi, Mr. Nitah. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to recognize Mr. Doug Hutton, who is the president of the King Motion Picture Corporation of Edmonton, a video and television production company that has quite a history of northern production. Welcome to the Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

-- Applause

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Welcome, Mr. Hutton. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Thebacha, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize in the gallery Mr. Ken Laviolette, band councillor for the Salt River First Nations, and Henry Beaver, the negotiator for the Salt River First Nations. It is a pleasure to have them in the Assembly today. Thank you.

-- Applause

Thank you. Welcome to our gallery. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize the president of the Union of Northern Workers, Georgina Rolt-Kaiser.

-- Applause

Thank you. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery. I would like to say welcome to all of the people who have taken some time to come and see the Legislative Assembly in action today. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for North Slave, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I believe that when Members are asking questions, they should get the answers they are seeking. If not, I will work with Ministers to ensure the answers that are requested are as forthcoming as possible. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Premier, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As much as possible, and especially where we are obliged to do so, we consult. As Members know, sometimes there are slight hiccups, but none of these are ever intentional, for instance, in situations where we need to respond quickly and decisively. Yes, as much as possible and where we can, we will commit Ministers to consulting the MLAs on the work they are undertaking in their respective communities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Premier. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board regarding the question I asked on Monday, June 11, from the unedited Hansard. The question about the notice of projects being deferred. I asked the Minister several questions on the matter in regard to notification to himself as the Minister and also has the Minister checked to see if the Financial Administration Act is being adhered to. At this time, I would like to ask the Minister responsible, has he checked into this and does he have any answers for me today?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I have checked into this project and checked with the Financial Administration Manual to see whether or not there was any violation. It appears that there has not been any. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I also asked the Minister if he could get information back to the House on whether he is aware of the notification process that is in place, where departments have to notify the FMB in regard to any changes to any capital projects. Has he looked into that matter?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, I have checked into this one. Let me tell you that on the project that Mr. Krutko is referring to, the Highway No. 8 project, which is reconstruction from kilometre 0 to kilometre 257, this is one project with a value of $500,000. It covers a whole bunch of activities within that one project, but it is all one project. That is the way it was approved in the main estimates. If you check the main estimates, you will see one project.

When it comes to the Financial Administration Manual, the manual says that:

When a department makes any adjustment to a capital project which significantly affects the scope or timing of the project, the responsible Minister will advise the appropriate MLA and standing committee.

In this case, there was some money moved around from one aspect of the project to another one, but the scope of the whole project remained the same. The timing of the project has essentially remained the same. Even though there was movement from culverts to bridge or whatever it may have been, there has been no substantial change at all to the project as a project. Therefore, there is no violation of the Financial Administration Act or the manual. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Handley. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe there are two misinterpretations of the act. There have been major changes in my riding. There have been two projects that have been deferred. That means two projects are not going to happen within this time frame in the 2001-2002 fiscal year. There is a change with regard to the timing of the project.

Again, I would like to ask the Minister, with regard to the scope of the project, which is over $100,000, or 20 percent of the project, it clearly states under the guidelines, under Article 4.3, item b, that is the area I feel the violation took place. Has the Minister checked in regard to that aspect of the Financial Administration Act?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, Mr. Handley.

Yes, Mr. Speaker. Let me say again that in this case, there is only one project. It is for reconstruction of Highway No. 8, kilometre 0 to kilometre 257. That is all one big project. There is no movement of money from one project to another. It is all within the project. There are a number of contracts within that project, but that is a different matter. There is no requirement under the Financial Administration Manual or the act to make a report back to Members when a contract within a project is changed around and so on. That is something that is not controlled within the Financial Administration Act or manual.

In this case, we are only dealing with one project. There has been some differences in contract money and how it is being scheduled out, but the whole project has not substantially changed in scope or in timing. There has been no substantial change to the whole project. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I believe there have been 23 contracts let on the Dempster Highway. Twenty-three contracts to an expenditure of $5 million. There are 23 contracts in that framework of the $5 million. Out of that, two projects have been deferred in my riding, which is, as far as I can see, a major change in regard to the 23 contracts. Now there are 21 contracts. That is a major change with regard to how the expenditure is taking place.

Again, I would like to ask the Minister, have you been notified that any deferrals to any capital projects have been submitted to your department?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, let me say again that when it comes to the changes within the contracts, the contracts that are within the project, that is not an issue that I would monitor as a Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board. That is something between the Minister of Transportation and his department and the MLAs who may be impacted by it. However, it is not a violation of the Financial Administration Manual or act to be moving monies or timing around on these individual contracts. That is between the department and the Minister and whoever else may be affected.

All I can say, as Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, is that there has not been any violation of the Financial Administration Act or manual. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Handley. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta has a point of order.

Point of Order

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I met with the Minister on this matter yesterday evening. He ensured me that section 23 of the act, 23(b), was definitely not adhered to. That is my point of order. I believe he is misleading the House.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Would you please just repeat the last part of your point of order concerning the allegation?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I did meet with the Minister on this matter yesterday evening to get clarification in regard to the directive and whether he had checked into it. He assured me that he had checked into it, under guideline 4.3(b), and he stated to me, and he had it written out on his piece of paper, that that section was not adhered to by the Department of Transportation.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Krutko, would you also clarify which Minister you are referring to, please?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The Chair is having some difficulty in determining whether this is a point of order to a matter that has occurred within the House as far as the procedure is concerned. This matter deals with a conversation that took place outside of the House and may not have had any effect on the procedures within the House.

I do not believe that the Member has a point of order at this time. I am going to refer to a quotation from Beauchesne's 6th Edition Parliamentary Rules, on acceptance of the word of a Member, under section 494:

It has been formally ruled by Speakers that statements by Members respecting themselves and particularly within their own knowledge must be accepted. It is not unparliamentary temperately to criticize statements made by Members as being contrary to the facts. That no imputation of intentional falsehood is permissible. On rare occasions, this may result in the House having to accept two contradictory accounts of the same incident.

I am going to ask the Minister if he wishes to comment on that. He may do so only if he chooses to. If he does not choose to, he does not need to. The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, Mr. Handley.

Mr. Speaker, since the Member raised my conversation with him, let me clarify what was discussed. Mr. Krutko and I did discuss the Financial Administration Manual, section 4.3(b), which basically says that where there is a major adjustment within a project, both in scope or in timing, then it is necessary for the Minister to advise the appropriate MLA and standing committee.

My comment in the discussion with Mr. Krutko was that there seemed to be a lack of clarity of where the boundary was between Mr. Krutko's riding and Inuvik Boot Lake. This was in reference to Campbell Creek. What I have said is that Mr. Steen had not been aware that a piece of the highway, the Campbell Creek portion, was in Inuvik Boot Lake, and therefore inadvertently moved part of a contract from here that was being done today to finish some work over here. That is as far as it went. That is not a violation of this particular section, but that seems to be the crux of the problem, that there was clarity between whose constituency this was in.

Let me say that the whole project is one project, right from kilometre zero to kilometre 257. I think there may have been an innocent moving of money between...

Speaker's Ruling

Thank you, Minister Handley, I think your comments were adequate.

At this time, I am going to rule that there is no point of order. This matter was in conversation that we have no record of in the House. It does not interfere with the procedures in the House and therefore there is no point of order.

Members will note that we did stop the clock during this bit of a debate in order to continue on with question period. Question period can now again resume. Next on my list is the honourable Member for Frame Lake. I notice a few hands up here. Why do you rise? The Member for Weledeh rises on a point of privilege. Mr. Handley, you may speak to your point of privilege.

Point of Order

Mr. Speaker, there has been an accusation that I misled the House. I would like to have that withdrawn. Thank you.

Thank you. The Member has asked if the accusation of misleading the House would be withdrawn by the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, and this is on a point of privilege. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on the point of privilege, I believe the Minister's response to the questions I asked earlier are inconsistent with the reply which he gave, which on the point of privilege, because he did not give this information, which is not consistent with the information he released. I will not withdraw on the point of privilege.

Thank you. I have been informed that it is a point of order rather than a point of privilege, and it has been addressed now.

-- Interjection

It has not yet been withdrawn, I am told. Mr. Krutko, there has been a request to withdraw those comments that you had made concerning the honourable Minister. Are you prepared to withdraw them? The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Speaker, no.

Thank you for your patience. The Chair was just confirming an item. The Chair did hear the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta allege that the honourable Minister for the Financial Management Board had misled the House. By rules of Parliament, it would be unparliamentary to do such a thing. The Chair will again ask the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta to withdraw that remark. Take it back.

Mr. Speaker, for the sake of proceeding, I will take it back.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The remarks that were made to the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board have been taken back. Now we may proceed. The honourable Member for the Sahtu had his hand up. For what reason?

Point of Order

Mr. Speaker, it is a point of order. The House is asked through you to have a serious allegation withdrawn. The allegation as stated, as I heard it, is withdrawn. There is no sincerity in it. It is made simply for the point of saying it so it expedites the process of getting on with business. That is not withdrawing an allegation.

I am not sure of the purpose of the comments made by the honourable Member, but it is not the Chair's position to determine the level of sincerity, if any or none, of a comment made. The Chair accepts the fact that the Member has withdrawn the comment and we will let it be at that.

Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health and Social Services. Last fall, as part of the plan to retire the deficit that was faced by Stanton Hospital, the board had proposed that the surgical ward be kept closed. I have heard some rumblings that this might be changing at some time. There have been a number of dates suggested for when it might reopen. I would like to ask the Minister of Health and Social Services if she could advise the House whether we are going to see the surgical ward reopen, and if so, when?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, from the latest update I have received from the representative of the Stanton Regional Board and also the administration of Stanton, the intention is to reopen the surgical ward. They anticipate this to be able to happen in September. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this proposal to close the ward was the result of a deficit. Could the Minister advise the House, what is the latest status on the deficit recovery plan for Stanton Hospital?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, some aspects of the deficit recovery plan proposed by Stanton have been approved. Some are in the process of being implemented. Some of the issues around forced growth items have been agreed to with the department, and additional funding provided on those items. There are figures that are included in the supplementary appropriation before the House with respect to forced growth. The work of the deficit recovery plan is ongoing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Madam Minister. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, since the Minister has obviously been involved in deciding whether or not certain aspects of the deficit recovery plan may proceed, can she inform the House which aspects specifically have now been approved for the board to implement?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Stanton inpatient surgical ward amalgamation is something that was withdrawn by Stanton as an initiative. There were other various aspects of the deficit recovery plan. One that was approved in March was the privatization of the laundry and housekeeping services within the hospital.

As for the detail of some of the other components, which is a fairly lengthy list of probably eight or ten items, I would have to provide that to the Member in writing. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Minister. Final supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, could the Minister advise the House as to what sort of process was followed to determine whether or not either she as the Minister or the department would approve the privatization of laundry and housekeeping?

Thank you, Mr. Dent. The honourable Minister responsible for the Department of Health and Social Services, Mrs. Groenewegen.