Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with all due respect, I would like to suggest that in the case of Hay River, the information collected by Public Works and Services was in error. I'd like to ask the Minister, seeing as there were only certain people contacted in the communities, what's the policy of the Department of Public Works and Services in these instances? This could be frightening for the future. Would it not have been better to advertise in local and territorial newspapers for expressions of interest? Outline the criteria so that anybody could have responded to this proposal? Thank you.

Mrs. Groenewegen, the chair is having some difficulty with the question. Perhaps you'd like to rephrase the question. It sounds like you're asking the Minister his opinion and that's not allowed under the rules of the House. Perhaps you can rephrase the question to a question, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Mr. Speaker, why didn't the Minister responsible instruct his officials to publicly advertise to give everyone who was interested in providing this office space fair and equal opportunity to provide a proposal on this space? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister of Public Works and Services, Minister Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as the Member suggested, it would have been one option. However, Public Works and Services advised that if a community is picked by the Board of Management it would be at that point that Public Works and Services would put forward a request for proposal to the landlords in that particular community. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Steen. Your final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That seems like a rather backward way of going about it. However, since they seem to have gotten the information incorrect that they supplied to the Board of Management with respect to Hay River, I would like to ask the Minister if he'd be prepared to direct his officials, both at headquarters and at the regional level, to attend in Hay River next week to be shown and toured around so that this will not happen in the future as to what is available in terms of vacant office space in Hay River because it is significant and it is that there's several landlords who have very good space that qualifies. Would the Minister be prepared to ask his officials to visit our community and see those spaces? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister of Public Works and Services, Minister Steen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'd be prepared to do that. I'll ask the department to visit the Hay River business community and put together an estimate of the amount of office space and price-wise and that's all we received from them in the first place. So, I'll ask them to put it together again. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Steen. Item 6, oral questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Speaker, my question's for the Minister of Health and Social Services. It's with regard to my Member's statement and the information I've received in the increased numbers of children who are being apprehended through the Child Protection and Family Services Act. Mr. Speaker, there's been a major increase from some 43 children at the end of May and at the last week of August, it was almost at 56 children. In two of my communities, there are 22 children in Aklavik and 33 in Fort McPherson. I'd like to ask the Minister, exactly what is his department doing to ensure that we see a decrease in these numbers and to work with our communities to establish child planning committees in those communities?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are moving ahead with the child and family services committees. In Fort McPherson, my understanding is that there have been six members identified and that training is scheduled to take place in November to get this committee up and running and which I know will be the first one of its kind in the Northwest Territories and probably all of Canada. Mr. Speaker, we also spend a lot of time with all the services we provide trying to deal with child and family services issues with social workers, alcohol and drug counsellors, mental health workers, even the nurses and doctors we have available, as well as the RCMP. Mr. Speaker, it's a very difficult area. It's a very complex one, but it's one where we devote a lot of time and resources. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I noted in my Member's statement, I made reference to the Youth Justice Act that's been appealed across the country to ensure we find alternative means in sentencing for young offenders. Yet, Mr. Speaker, under our Family Law Act basically the only option we see in place is apprehension, where children are being taken away from their families and put into foster care. I think this government has a responsibility to amend our laws to follow the federal laws in regards to how alternative sentences have to be concluded.

Mr. Speaker, there are two sections of this act I'd like to ask the Minister about: Section 10 and section 27. Section 10 means that any person who's going to apprehend a child has to have reasonable grounds to do so. The child protection worker has to ensure that the health and safety of the child is in danger. The other section which deals with section 25 needs a court order in order to apprehend that individual. I'd like to ask the Minister, do you have any idea of how many children have been apprehended under these two different sections? What sections are they being apprehended under?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to point out that there are a number of options and that permanent wardship is the very last option that is there when all other initiatives and options have failed. We're talking about voluntary support agreements, support services agreements, plan of care agreements, apprehensions of less than 72 hours, apprehension, interim custody orders, temporary custody and finally, Mr. Speaker, when all else fails, we have permanent custody. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Mr. Speaker, from the information I've received it's clear that the permanent custody numbers have gone up. It's gone up from 10 in May to almost 17 at the end of August. The numbers I'm getting shows me that there's an increase in the number of children being put into permanent custody. I'd like to ask the Minister, have you looked at intervening and looked at these numbers to say why there is such a drastic increase in the number of children that are being put in permanent custody?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is an issue where the safety of the child is paramount. There are at least five investigations done per child before any kind of wardship is considered. We respond to on average per child seven community reports of abuse or neglect. Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that we have to, in fact, take children into care, but I can tell the Member that across Canada there has been a study that we have taken part in where they've looked through the Canadian incident study of reported child abuse and maltreatment completed in 1998 and there are some very basic, common reasons why children come into care and things that affect children who are brought into care. For example, Mr. Speaker, 34 percent of the parents had alcohol and drug abuse issues; 31 percent of the parents had a child with history of abuse; 29 percent of the parents lacked social support; 24 percent of the parents had mental health issues; 23 percent of the parents experienced spousal violence themselves. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to point out that these figures are not cumulative because they overlap, but it points out that there are some very significant issues that affect children being brought into care and it's not something that's done lightly. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Your final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think the Minister hit the nail right on the head when he said there was a lack of care, especially from this government, when it comes to programs and services that these people can depend on such as alcohol and drug programs; have mental health and alcohol and drug workers in our communities; have counsellors there to counsel the families to deal with these problems. Mr. Speaker, maybe the Minister can maybe do something in that area. I'd like to ask the Minister, what exactly is this government doing to stem these problems that he knows of in our communities related to children who are apprehended from their families because of alcohol and drug problems, people being unemployed, people...

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Minister Miltenberger.