Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My understanding is that the federal government paid in addition to, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Mr. McLeod.

Mr. Chairman, rather than chase this around, I would like to ask the Minister if he would take a look at a program that would be able to accommodate this. If there is federal funding and it's being accessed for other facilities in GNWT facilities, why don't we build it in? Why are we going after the communities to pay for territorial facilities? I can't understand why the government would allow, in some cases, a community, to dip into their coffers of their own core funding to do that.

Also, I wanted to raise the issue that Mr. Bell raised. I have the same concerns regarding the testing in the smaller communities versus what is being offered by optional courses and core courses. For example, in Yellowknife versus what's in the smaller communities. I can't be convinced that they are equal programs. Could that be something that we look at? I understand there are different modes of testing. I think it should be consistent across the board. We have, in a lot of cases, students who are trying to get into some of the trades and are not able to pass some of the trades exams. I think that is something we really have to be concerned about.

I have a couple of questions -- I know my time is running out -- about apprenticeship positions. I am not seeing them within the government. I am not sure if this department is concerned, or is that something they want to deal with? Is it something they walked away from? Some other departments are trying to incorporate them in as part of their programs to see some apprenticeship positions. It was a good program for many years. We got a lot of trained employees out of this program and I think that's something we should bring back. I am also concerned that we are not seeing a lot of people working in the oil industry. I know the government has made some attempts to train some people. As far as I understand, I only see courses that are offered in the South. It was an issue we raised in this House on many occasions, that we should be developing our own programming and courses through Aurora College right here in the NWT. I will stop there, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the consistency of testing, yes, we are moving towards that. We want consistency so that we can ensure that all of our students can be assured that they are taking the same test as other students in the Territories, and we are working with the boards to achieve that. Many boards already use the Alberta achievement tests. There are several that don't, and we want to work towards changing that and we look to doing that within the next year. We are starting that, Mr. Chair.

With regard to apprenticeship, the apprenticeship requires the input of other departments and the identification of positions. We are there to provide the funding support for training of that particular portion, Mr. Chair, but the departments themselves have to identify positions and fill those particular positions. Once that's there, we are there to support that particular program. Perhaps I can ask Ms. Allen to add to that.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Ms. Allen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would just point out that we are looking at reintroducing apprenticeship support through the departments. We are looking at it in terms of Transportation, for example. Thank you.

Thank you. The Chair recognizes Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. I didn't hear a lot of questions in there but, Mr. Ootes, would you like to respond?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Member is raising questions with regard to new versus renovation, and certainly that is a valid question which naturally we all want to address as well, because we don't want to do renovation and then find out that within two to three years we are facing other problems. With regard to the project, in the case of the two projects in Fort Smith slated for renovation, the Brown House, and the Green House, they've been termed as structurally sound but the building needs stripping and it needs refurbishing throughout. The estimates are that it is substantially cheaper than rebuilding these two particular units, which can be quite expensive to put two new units on the market, Mr. Chairman.

With regard to Breynat Hall, my understanding is they may have done some work in Breynat Hall to provide a common kitchen living area but the rooms themselves, I understand, may not have been totally refurbished. But in any event, they are not identified as units that carry and contain four people. They were originally identified for two high school students. As I said, the college is not in agreement that people should share and I think that is appropriate for the type of courses, the adults that are in there. With ABE, I understand the courses are to be delivered in February and March, as we speak, and I will have to check to see if there are enough instructors available, Mr. Chairman. But I am of the opinion that if we are running the courses there, that instructors have been found for those particular courses. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. The Chair recognizes Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a number of issues that I want to cover with the Minister on this general comments area, but this Aurora College capital planning hiccup keeps coming back here and I feel that I need to jump into that just to state my position on this as well. As I listen to debates going back and forth, I think that the information that we have so far, whether it be through the community's work or what we know from talking to each other and so on, there has not been enough concrete, objective, rational information as to how these capital projects have jumped the queue, so to speak. Some of them were not there last year, or some were in later years, and now we are looking at expenditure requests in many future years for millions of dollars for the renovation of very old buildings. So there is a question about old and new, but there are also questions about how we determine the need and what hoops does it have to get through to have this capital project get on the books. We don't want to see a situation like this where capital projects just jump in out of nowhere.

The demands that we have been hearing about have mostly been in Inuvik and Yellowknife. So we have a question between where the capital need is for Aurora College between the three campuses. Then we have a question about should we be spending the scarce...Well, not whether or not to spend it, but how do we make the priority decision about what Mr. McLeod mentioned, for example, in schools versus housing for adults? How do we prioritize that? If we have problems like that on reserves for low grade schools, the Mildred Hall renovation project has been in need for decades. Regardless of what my colleague from North Slave says, that school was built in 1965. It's almost as old as me. It's in need of renovation and that project had to struggle for years to get on the books. As it is already, the money that has been provided is not enough to meet the emergency occupational standards I would think -- and I don't mean any ill to any college or anything -- that if you have to prioritize and you have to look at the basic level of support you have to give, I would think that facilities for primary grades come before housing for adults. I don't know what programs there are for adults or kids out of high school or people who go to Aurora College, whatever age they might be. I don't know what sort of financial help they get to go to school here and provide for their housing. The students who go to Fort Smith, perhaps this is an opportunity. If we don't spend this money to renovate and if we don't build another one right away, this could be an opportunity to create a private market in Smith if government subsidizes housing while they go to school there. It could be an opportunity for the private sector to jump in and build apartments.

It's really hard for us to say this jumped in, appearing out of nowhere it seems, when we have heard for years about the lack of housing for students in Yellowknife for Aurora Campus. It really speaks to the question about how we determine the needs of different campuses within the college, but also as it compares to basic school facilities for grade schools. So far, it seems to me, that we haven't gotten conclusive evidence or even reasonable evidence or background information to argue for this capital expenditure. I think the Minister has a challenge on his hands to explain himself and convince us of that. Maybe the Minister might want to comment on that.

Thank you. Mr. Ootes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't have a challenge trying to explain this. The capital planning process is very specific about a primary rating criteria, and protection of assets is one of the key ones on there. In Fort Smith, we've got some assets there that the fire marshal has stated that the two units, the Brown House and Green House, have to be renovated or they are going to shut it down. If they shut those units down, we have a housing problem in Fort Smith for our students at the college. That is not a question.

We also addressed the issue in Inuvik. It's not first class accommodation, presumably, but it's accommodation that is there for the next couple of years to be able to address student need in Inuvik. We've worked on that. We have rehabilitated some units there. We can get access to more units if need be. The Yellowknife Campus, Mr. Chair, is a large capital investment that we would have to look at and we could not address that with the kind of money we are using for the renovation projects and the 15 units in Fort Smith. It just won't answer the question in either location, either Inuvik or Yellowknife.

With regard to grade school, we have to look at it in terms of the government-wide infrastructure planning process and the primary rating criteria that's in place and the protection of assets is there. We know that schools are very, very important to us and we also address those as we can. We have a small budget for small school renovations and larger schools and large school additions that all go through the capital planning process. So I think we do have a good system in place. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ootes. Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will ask Ms. Allen to address that question.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The students get student financial assistance, which includes a housing allowance. There is college housing here in Yellowknife. So if the students are fortunate enough to get that housing, then there is a college rate for that housing.

So is the student financial assistance then different for those students who go to school in Yellowknife and those who are in private housing versus student housing, compared to those students who go to Smith and Inuvik who are able to get into student housing?