Mr. Chairman, we have over the years, on a number of occasions looked at the opportunities for privatization of the petroleum products division. We've also looked at the opportunities forthcoming with the Northwest Territories Power Corporation. None of these have proven to be viable options. From the analysis that has been done, all would anticipate some increase in the cost over and above what the petroleum products division incurs.
Debates of March 11th, 2003
This is page numbers 645 - 700 of the Hansard for the 14th Assembly, 6th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was chairman.
Topics
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 667
Rattray
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 667
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 667
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I wonder if the Minister or deputy minister ever considered my suggestion about getting rid of PPD, recognizing the numbers of subsidies that the government has had to provide? If we could get out of the cost of administration, the cost of delivering, the cost of purchasing, etcetera, etcetera, we would see some savings. We could just provide subsidies to set up organizations or private companies in each of these communities to deliver a few products and services, and just provide them with subsidies, recognizing that there is an extra cost and that we do recognize that this is an essential service, a service that could be delivered by an entrepreneur in the community without assistance from the government through subsidies, not through physically delivering the service in the community. Has that ever been considered by the government? Thank you.
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 667
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 667
Rattray
Mr. Chairman, the earlier privatization studies considered the option of smaller firms undertaking to deliver the services in communities and arguing against that is the loss of any kind of economies of scale, in terms of doing the various tasks. As the Member realizes, somebody still has to go out and purchase the fuel. Somebody has to ensure that the quality is maintained. Somebody has to deliver it in the communities. All of those things still need to be done, so there will still be costs incurred by all of that. Added on top of those costs is the higher cost of doing it as a very, very small operation rather than as the larger operation that we are currently managing. So all of the analysis that we've done so far indicates that, yes, you could do it that way but it would be more expensive and the cost would either be carried over to the government if it wished to increase the level of subsidy it provided or would be carried over to the consumers who would be paying more at the pump or for fuel delivered to their homes.
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 667
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 667
Steven Nitah Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I imagine that there will be a measured cost but by going down this road, we will consistently see an increase because the fuel prices will consistently go up. What I am saying is, we're not giving the communities an option. We're not giving the communities an opportunity for a business to be created in those communities. We are hanging onto this petroleum products division at a cost. In doing that, if we do decide to go down this road and we privatize the petroleum products division to each of the communities, all we have to do is recognize that a subsidy is required in those communities and, if we provide that subsidy through the Financial Management Board, it will eliminate the need for a petroleum products division. Public works could still provide the technical support as part of its role and responsibilities. What would be the cost savings, or the increased cost in the short term, when you eliminate PPD as a government office? Has there been a cost benefit analysis done on using those particular options? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 667
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 667
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there are perhaps two points I should bring out here. One is that the department's direction from FMBS and Cabinet is that we no longer consider privatization as an initiative. However this doesn't prevent private enterprise from coming into a community and establishing themselves and selling the products as they see fit. If that was to happen, for instance if a community was to set up itself and start selling products, then we would just simply get out of the business and eventually turn our inventory over to them including the tanks, the tank farms. We've done this in the past but we don't have direction anymore from Cabinet or FMBS to go forward with the initiative for privatization unless the initiative is taken by the private sector or the community to do it on their own and then we will just get out of the business. Thank you.
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 667
The Chair David Krutko
At this time, I would like to warn the Member for Thebacha again that you are not allowed to be chewing gum in the House, so you are warned for the second time. Member for Thebacha, are you challenging the Chair? You have been warned. Mr. Lafferty.
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Leon Lafferty North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just so long as the Minister has answered the last question there I would like to ask him, if we privatize more communities, would that drive the cost of other communities' fuel prices up, and then pretty soon one day we wouldn't be able to handle the subsidies for the communities that are still under the petroleum products division?
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, definitely it would because we will have fewer communities to spread a subsidy over. In this particular case, if the number of communities is reduced then it is obvious that the rest of the communities are going to have to pay for the subsidy to keep the revolving fund from going over its capacity. Thank you.
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Leon Lafferty North Slave
Thank you. So in other words the Minister is saying that it is not a very good idea to privatize. If we've gone that route already, then is there any way of going back so we can spread the subsidy over more communities and lower the costs? Thank you.
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Vince Steen Nunakput
Mr. Chairman, we've been given direction not to privatize any more on a list of our own. However, if the private sector wants to move in on a community and set themselves up and eventually build the capacity to do the thing themselves...as a matter of fact we have the example of Wrigley that has recently done this. If they have the capacity, we would just simply consider this and turn our inventory over to them. Thank you.
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Leon Lafferty North Slave
Thank you. Can the Minister tell me how many communities have privatized in the last eight years?
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe it's Wrigley, Fort McPherson and Tuktoyaktuk.
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Leon Lafferty North Slave
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister give us the amount of the increase to each community because of the privatization? What's the cost? Thank you.
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Committee Motion 10-14(6) To Extend The Three-year Replacement Cycle For Desktop Computers, Carried
Item 19: Consideration In Committee Of The Whole Of Bills And Other Matters
Page 668
Vince Steen Nunakput
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there is no increase due to that particular privatization. The only time you may see an increase would be that there would be fewer communities available to actually cut down on the revolving fund deficit amount. But there won't be any increase due to the privatization of any one particular community.