Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at the staff level we have almost around-the-clock, year-round processes and tables going with the federal government. It also, as the Premier has indicated, is an issue of national significance. Minister Pettigrew was up here a couple of months ago. The issue of health was raised with him. We've suggested things like it would make sense to take DIAND health programs and put them under Health Canada where they belong, where they can be administered with some consistency and with some possible greater efficiencies. We've successfully negotiated and got the federal government to acknowledge that there's no need for holdbacks.

So we are continuing to press. There's also ongoing pressure at the political tables because this is an issue that affects all jurisdictions that administer programs for Indian and Inuit people, which is almost every jurisdiction in the country. So we are having some small success, but it still remains a program that is problematic. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, for the public record, is it a program and service that's being delivered by our government on behalf of some of our constituents that is problematic enough that the territorial government would ever consider handing it back to the federal government? Has that been considered or discussed recently? I'm referring to I'm sure what are some of the Premier's comments which were made out of absolute frustration with the negotiations recently and I just want to know for the record what the status of any considerations might be to just hand the whole thing back to the federal government. Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This issue has had some discussion in many forms. As a government, we look at all the options and try to control our costs. To continue to deliver a program or programs for the federal government that we are losing money on, for example, the program for Indian Affairs we've spent $8.5 million more than we're going to get back last year, so the amount that we're losing is growing, that it's not a sustainable kind of process and can we legitimately expect ourselves as a territory and our constituents to tighten their belts and have other programs cut because the federal government arbitrarily refuses to pay. Yes, it is an issue that is there. We're going to look at all options. We've also been instructed to look at the numbers, look at the impact. There would have to be lots of discussions, of course, to do that, but I think clearly we want to send a signal that we don't mind administering the programs. But we can't rob other program areas to cover those costs, as the Finance Minister has indicated as he seeks to storm the debt wall. This is one of the areas where there's money on the table that belongs to us. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on behalf of our constituents, who are the beneficiaries of this particular programming, I would like to have the Minister's assurance that the level of service is not going to be diminished or affected by these shortfalls and by the lack of response from the federal government. I'd like to know from the Minister, as well, does he see any other scenario? We've heard about the possibility of these services being delivered, the money flowing through, for example, the aboriginal governments as opposed to this government. Would he see that as any solution to the problem or would that, in fact, complicate the issue by having a dual health care system and, in fact, drive our costs up? Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as my colleague knows, having been in the 13th and 14th assemblies, especially with division, when you make two out of one you never do it for the same costs. The more administration and the more different program areas or delivery mechanisms we create, the greater the costs that take away from the ability to deliver the program. The issue for us, the fundamental issue is that we are delivering programs on behalf of the federal government that are under funded that they refuse to acknowledge. We had some small relief with the non-insured health benefits, but that is the big issue. I want to assure the Member and her constituents, all our constituents, that there's no intention of this government to lessen the services we currently provide to our people, our citizens. But we do have a serious disagreement with the federal government and it's one that's very high on our agenda as we try to bring some relief to this growing debt just on the health side. Thank you.

Item 7, oral questions. Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are a number of issues that constantly bedevil this process. The federal government challenges a lot of the expenditures. We, as a territory, have some programs and services that are higher or greater than the federal government wants to pay for. They refuse and disallow those invoices. The program was only funded at 95 percent, so there's a five percent deficit that we deal with yearly because there's a cap set on what they're going to pay. There's a whole host of reasons and, as we know from many of our other negotiations with the federal government, when they want to, the wheels of federal bureaucracy grind very slowly and fine and progress is often glacial in resolving issues. That's one of the situations we're also faced with. Thank you.

Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if the Minister could advise as to whether or not this Cabinet, this government or any previous government has ever considered launching a legal action against the federal government to put more added pressure and to express our seriousness about the impossible situation and the urgency to resolve this claim. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there was a court case initiated in the past that got the federal government to the table and had some basic changes made. Since that time things have once again accumulated and we have, for example with the non-insured health benefits, the lack of recognition on the federal government's part in terms of things like dental days, obsolete rates that they refuse to modernize, reflection of cost-of-living increases, population growth. There's a whole number of fundamental issues that we constantly argue and debate with the federal government about and they're very slow to respond or acknowledge, even though we've had many audits and evaluations in terms of the costs, and are they legitimate. Thank you.

Supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to know more about what result came about the last time the GNWT took the federal government to court on this issue. The Minister mentioned that they did come to the table. Can the Minister advise as to exactly what they came to the table with? Was this government able to get any money out of that, any concessions on the rules, anything like that? Thank you.

Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we as a government did not get everything we asked for. There was an out-of-court settlement. We signed an agreement that resulted in the GNWT getting 95 percent of the expenditures for insured medical services for Inuit and Indian residents up to agreed upon maximum. So we have an agreement, there was an out-of-court settlement, but it didn't meet all our needs and the gap has once again grown. Thank you.

Final supplementary, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to ask the Minister whether or not, given the seriousness of this issue on our financial situation and the importance of this issue in our ability to deliver health care programs to our residents in the future, what efforts has the Minister, if any, made to bring this to the attention of our partners and all the aboriginal government leaders? Would this not be something that he should consider bringing into a territorial agenda so that there is as aggressive an action on this issue as there is currently being mobilized for devolution and the pipeline and everything else? Because I do believe this is as important as all the other issues. What efforts has he made to bring this to that level of attention? Thank you.