Thank you, Madam Chair. A few comments on the Minister's opening remarks. I may stray from the opening remarks a bit, but in context of the problems that we face in the health care system, I know that the Minister doesn't have an easy job of trying to address all of the issues that we have, as well as the growing costs that are involved. It is a system that appears to have no end in sight as far as where we are going to go with our programs, and when we are ever going to find solutions. I know this morning at about six o'clock, I drove my daughter to the airport and I was listening to the radio and there was some health professional I think from Vancouver. He was talking about the health care system in Canada as a whole, and what caught my attention about it was he said our health care professionals are lying to us about the programs that we have in place today, and the free health care system across Canada, and we continue to throw more money and more money at the programs that we have in place and there never seems to be any results coming out at the other end. He was saying that within 25 years if we don't change our approach to health care, that there won't be a health care system and it will be too late at that time to even fix. Having said that, he didn't put all of the answers out there either, and I certainly don't have all of them either.

In looking at the health budget for this year I was tempted to go back and look over the comments that we have made over the last four years in health care, and addressing some of the issues that are facing us. The issues don't seem to change, and the problems don't seem to change. One of the things that I noticed in going back over the last four years, I looked at the budget addresses in each of the four years during the 14th Legislative Assembly, and there was a very high emphasis put on early childhood development. We continued to mention that consistently over the four years through the budgets, more money into year two or into year three of the programs of early childhood development. I notice that this time when the budget came out, and even in the Minister's opening remarks, early childhood development is not even mentioned in here, except that we want to give our young people the best start we can in life, and that may be what that was referring to. I would just like to ask the Minister, has there been less of a focus on early childhood development now and more towards this integrated service model that I want to speak of a little bit more after. Is the focus stretching or are we starting to see results of the programs and the millions of dollars that we have put into early childhood development? Are we starting to see some improvement in that area? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The issue of early childhood development is a specific program where there was funding that was time specific and that is sunsetted at the end of this fiscal year. We haven't put any more money in to continue the program. There is federal money, $500,000, that will be carrying on for another year, both for ourselves and for Education, Culture and Employment. It's a program where the funding has sunsetted. We are committed to children. We are spending millions dealing with child welfare issues. We also have the healthy children's initiative, but this one particular program the funding has sunsetted.

Madam Chair, another issue is this doctor the Member heard on the radio, I think he's being very optimistic with 25 years if we continue the status quo. In my opinion -- and I have heard this from many quarters as well -- we will be lucky to make 10 years. It isn't sustainable at the rate we are going with the costs we are incurring and with the very fundamental basic personal choice. The onus is on the rise. It is a very pressing issue for us. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I referred to it, I know the department is working very hard now introducing this integrated service model. One of the areas I have touched on many times over the last four years, even within this integrated service model, is alcohol and drug addictions and how we treat alcohol and drug addictions. I am glad to see through the integrated service model that the Minister and the department thinks a licensed alcohol and drug worker can deal with mental health problems, but I don't know that we can rate people like that. I think every illness or sickness has its own characteristics and specialties to deal with them. I don't know how long we would take to start seeing results that can justify the programs that we are putting in place.

Going back to early childhood development, I certainly wouldn't want to see that program come to a total end, whether we change the name of it or do whatever we do with it. I personally believe that that is a program that may not have been in place long enough to see positive results in, but I think is very important because if we don't start seeing them young and helping them to live healthy lifestyles, we will be sorry for that in the long run. I would like to ask the Minister if he's committed to continuing on with the early childhood program or a program similar to that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Currently the healthy children's initiative is another program geared for children, we put in $1.8 million. Education, Culture and Employment puts in a similar amount. We have another $160,000 for health promotion funding. In addition, there is a whole host of programs hosted by the federal government that are geared towards children, in many cases. As well, we continue to provide all the other services under child welfare through foster care and group homes and those types of services and the work provided by social workers, but there is no plan at this point to continue on with early childhood development. It has sunsetted, as I indicated, and there is no money in the budget to continue on with it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Delorey.

I am really sorry to hear that that program will be coming to an end. It's one that could show some very positive results. On the integrated service model, I would like to ask the Minister the justification behind not wanting licensed alcohol and drug workers involved in that integrated service model. I know that the department comes back and says they want to make them community workers or wellness workers, but I don't think an alcohol and drug counsellor that's licensed has the capabilities of dealing with a mental health problem, and I don't think a mental health expert has the tools to deal with an alcohol and drug victim or patient. I would just like to ask the Minister how does he justify that we can treat alcohol and drugs, but we don't need to recognize them as a profession? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the issue of how you deal with alcohol and alcohol addiction is a whole field of study. It's a whole profession. I just read a very interesting article from the National Aboriginal Health Organization where they did a review of northern addictions services. They clearly identified a need to have some versatility when dealing with people. Someone who comes in with an alcohol addiction, that is not the only presenting problem that is there. As we look at our indicators, the way we have been doing business in alcohol and drugs hasn't been as successful as it can be and has to be. We are not saying we don't support having trained workers. There are some who want to get trained in the area of addictions, and we are prepared to support those people as we do other professionals if they want to take that area of training. We also use Nechi training, which is an eight module course delivered at Poundmakers. So we are attempting with the work we've done in the addictions area with the job descriptions, the increase in pay levels, we are going to deliver and set up a training curriculum and opportunities for these people, these workers to get trained and keep current. That will be one of the areas where if they choose to train in that area, we will support them. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In this training for alcohol and drug counsellors or workers, will they graduate with a certificate of any kind and will that be transferable? Will they have mobility rights to go and work any other place across Canada as a counsellor or mental health worker or alcohol and drug counsellor? Will it give them mobility rights with that certificate, or do they get one? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Education and training of any kind, I believe, is a good investment. If they choose to take the addiction counsellors certification program, then clearly they will have that mobility. The Nechi training also has credibility and I believe is portable. We are going to look at developing a training program for community wellness workers that will include not only addictions training, but also other areas of dealing with people who have multiple presenting problems and we are going to be working through the college to do that. We are going to make it as credible and portable as possible.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Delorey.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just have one more question for the Minister. Again, it's a bit away from his opening remarks, but certainly with the health of our residents. It's an issue I addressed with him earlier this year. It's with the discrepancy that we seem to have between status Indians and seniors and what level of benefits they are able to access through drugs. The Minister had committed to me at that time that he would look into that situation. I would just like to ask him if he has, and what he's been able to find out, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, that's one of the areas of our dispute in negotiations with the federal government. We provide a higher level of benefits than they are prepared to cover in medications, especially in their non-insured health benefits. That is one of the challenges as we look at supplementary health benefit programs. How do we rationalize and integrate the service, so that we have the same high level of service for all our citizens? Right now, there are discrepancies. It's an issue we recognize. The Member has made an appropriate observation that there is a difference and it's one of the challenges we are trying to deal with as we look at moving the supplementary health review forward. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Delorey.

The last thing I would like to briefly mention is the fact that we are still seeing some very high vacancy rates in doctors and nurses. Are we getting anywhere over our recruitment and retention plan? Is it getting tougher out there? Is the department able to address some or find some places where we can maybe attract doctors up here? Is there anything new happening on that front? I know Hay River right now is experiencing a shortage of doctors and nurses and the ones we do have are getting really burnt out and threatening to leave. Is there anything we can do to improve on our recruitment and retention plans? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Delorey. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I could make my comments specific to Hay River, the honourable Member for Hay River South raised the issue as well in the House yesterday, at which time I committed and we've already started the process of talking to the deputy about looking at the turnover rates to see if there are any trends. We will work with the board and the authority there. Very clearly, on the compensation and benefits level, our compensation and pay for doctors puts us at the top right now. We compensate our health practitioners, especially the doctors very, very well. We are just in the process of hopefully concluding a new agreement which will build on that. In my mind, the issues of recruitment are not necessarily monetary ones. I have committed to work with the board and the staff there to take a look at what's happening and take whatever steps we deem necessary to work with Hay River to deal with those issues. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Delorey.