Thank you, Mr. Roland. If Members could please turn in their binders to Bill 20. I'll ask Members if they have any general comments on Bill 20. Mr. Ramsay.

Thanks, Madam Chair. I wanted to make a few general comments on the Supplementary Appropriation Act, No. 3 that's before us this evening. The first one I would just like to make mention of is the size of it. It's quite sizeable, over $16 million and I know the government is forced to expend some of this money, but it seems to be a rather large number to be dealing with, extraordinary funding for this. The one thing I really wanted to zero in on is the Dogrib Community Services Board and its operation. The fact that it's been running and operating a deficit for the past five out of seven years and it looks like we're in the process through this supp of bailing them out to the tune of over $2 million. I know I've read somewhere that they are actually going to go in there and try to do an operational review or try to identify what the problems are or what the situation is there. Obviously, Madam Chair, something is wrong if five out of seven years they have been running up sizeable deficits. Can the Minister tell us what exactly and specifically is the government doing to address the situation out there? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. A review has been done in the area of the Dogrib Health and Community Services Board, and one of the areas that was brought to our attention was that there is a chronic under funding of the board, specifically in the area of ambulance services. That was one of the main areas that this bill goes to address. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. According to the numbers that I have and other Members have, the ambulance services debt would account for $178,000 out of the $2 million. I am wondering if the Minister can clarify those numbers for me. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The numbers that we have come up with are the accumulated debt over the years that have accrued and added to that as well as some of the administration, but Minister Miltenberger may have further details that he can provide to Members.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay. I am sorry, Mr. Voytilla. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. If I could, maybe the Minister of Health and Social Services has those numbers, but I am wondering what the accumulated deficit up to March 31, 2004, in the amount of $1.289 million; what makes up that number and how do we arrive at that number? If the Minister is saying that most of that is accrued ambulance costs, then can the Minister of Health and Social Services or the Finance Minister break that number down for us? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. Again the years that the accumulation started to occur was as far back as 1999. The main area again was around ambulance service provision. For example in 1999-2000 there was an accumulated deficit there of $510,000; in 2000-01, $239,000; 2001-02, $169,000; 2002-03, $152,000; and 2003-04 another $11,000, in direct regard to the services provided through ambulance. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. If the DCSB has been running up accumulated deficits since 1999, why are we just dealing with that in 2005? Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. There has been some discussion back and forth about their deficit situation and the Department of Health and Social Services did have a number of meetings with the Dogrib Community Services Board and, as a result of looking into it in more detail, this is the information that the Department of Health and Social Services has come forward with. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I am quite concerned actually about this, in the fact that other boards that are out there that are operating look to this and they can see the fact that they have been running up operating deficits for a number of years and then by the stroke of a pen, through a supp, their entire accumulated deficit is gone. I think it is a pretty scary precedent to set, Madam Chairperson, that we can allow boards to operate, run up deficits and then come through a supp and get over $2 million to just wipe out the deficit. It doesn't seem right to me, Madam Chairperson, and I would like to ask the Minister what type of precedent are we setting

ourselves up for in dealing with boards that we set up? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. It is not setting a precedent because the government has, in the past, also provided funding for boards that have been under funded or, in this case, because of ambulance services. But there have been times in the past where the government has put in extra funding once they have worked out the details with the Department of Health and Social Services. There isn't a precedent being set here. In this case it wasn't a matter of poor management, it was a fact that there was under funding for a service that was being provided in this area. The Minister of Health and Social Services may have further details in that area.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The Minister of FMBS, Mr. Roland, is correct that we have provided assistance in the past. We are currently doing work with operational reviews, because there are a number of boards that are struggling with their finances as well. It is not strictly an issue of poor management.

The Dogrib board was created in 1997 and, as already indicated, one of the biggest drivers of their deficit was the fact that there was never any funding for ambulance services. Rae is the only community that doesn't have an airport or have a way to get people to Stanton. They instituted an ambulance service that has, over time, built up a significant deficit. There have been other areas as well, as the Minister of FMBS has indicated, but we are working with other boards. For example, the Fort Smith board has a small deficit that they are working on, the Inuvik has a somewhat larger deficit that they are working on, as does Hay River. There are issues in all those areas that speak to costs that oftentimes the boards don't control. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I guess I will take back what I said about setting precedent, because I guess every time you look around we are having to bail out somebody or other, so this shouldn't really set a precedent then because it's just another bail out, Madam Chairperson.

The other thing I wanted to mention; I am little bit confused about how this is playing out. On one hand you have the Minister of FMB saying that most of the deficit goes back to the fact that they weren't funded for ambulance services. Yet because they have run up deficits in the past five out of seven years, we have gone in and done a review. What is it; if you can blame it on ambulance services and the fact that they are not funded for it, or is it some systemic problems that are in the organization that you have tried to flesh out? I am wondering if Members can actually get a copy or the review that was done of DCSB. Can we get a copy of this review and what it was meant to do? Thank you, Madam Chairperson.