Good morning, colleagues. Welcome back to the House. Orders of the day. Ministers' statements. The honourable Premier, Mr. Handley.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories, I would like to offer congratulations to Mr. Fred Carmichael on his induction into the Aboriginal Business Hall of Fame.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, this occasion will be commemorated at a gala dinner in Toronto tonight.

Mr. Speaker, the Aboriginal Business Hall of Fame recognizes the accomplishments and contributions of aboriginal business leaders who have built full and rich careers by expanding the frontiers of aboriginal business. Nominees serve as strong role models for their communities and give hope and encouragement for future generations of aboriginal businesspeople.

Our government was pleased to nominate Mr. Carmichael for induction into the Aboriginal Business Hall of Fame.

Mr. Speaker, as all of us are aware, Mr. Fred Carmichael has had a long and distinguished career serving the people of the North. Following a very successful career as a pilot and airline company owner, and when most people would be going into retirement, Fred began a second career as president of the Gwich'in Tribal Council. He has recently been elected on his second term in this role.

One of his greatest achievements is the creation of the Aboriginal Pipeline Group. This group, under his leadership, has negotiated a one-third ownership of the pipeline, ensuring significant, long-term benefits for northerners. Mr. Carmichael continues at the helm as the current chair of the APG.

Mr. Speaker, from his excellence in business leadership, to his contribution to the community, to a renowned commitment to building capacity, Fred's work on behalf of northerners has been tremendous. I have no doubt that he will continue to lead with the same determination and persistence he has shown to date.

I cannot think of a more worthy candidate to be inducted into the Aboriginal Business Hall of Fame.

Once again, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Government of the Northwest Territories, I would like to offer my sincere congratulations to Fred Carmichael.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Handley. Ministers' statements. The honourable Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to provide my colleagues with an update on the Gas Tax Agreement which was signed between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Government of Canada in November 2005, and witnessed by the Northwest Territories Association of Communities.

The Gas Tax Agreement will provide additional funding of $37.5 million over five years to community governments for investments in environmentally sustainable municipal infrastructure. This funding is in addition to the federal Municipal Rural Infrastructure Program of $16 million over five years that is reflected in this year's budget and the enhanced Government of the Northwest Territories commitment to stable funding for community public infrastructure of $28 million per year. This injection of infrastructure funding will go a long way towards addressing the infrastructure deficit in our communities.

Projects that are eligible for funding under the Gas Tax Agreement include environmentally-friendly public transit infrastructure such as bike lanes and walking trails. Gas tax funds can also be used by communities for the construction of new and more efficient community energy systems, water and sewage services and solid waste facilities. I am particularly pleased that the Northwest Territories was also able to negotiate the inclusion of dust control expenditures as an eligible cost.

Some communities have expressed concerns about the restrictions on what projects gas tax funds can be used for. As chair of the provincial/territorial Ministers of Local Government, I am working in collaboration with other provinces and territories to lobby for changes to the list of eligible projects. All jurisdictions would like to see more flexibility in how this funding can be used.

The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is currently working with all community governments and the

Northwest Territories Association of Communities to prepare for implementation of the agreement.

Under the terms of the agreement, each community government must complete an integrated community sustainability plan by 2010. It will be up to communities, working with the department, to determine just what these plans will look like, but we do know that essential components will include capital investment plans and community energy plans. Although these plans are a requirement of the gas tax funding, the focus on capital investment planning will help communities as they prepare to take on increased responsibility for infrastructure under the government's New Deal for community governments.

Later this year, the Northwest Territories Association of Communities and the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs will provide an opportunity for communities to meet and discuss development of sustainability plans. The conference will bring in resource persons from other jurisdictions who have experience in community sustainability planning and give communities a chance to share ideas and expertise.

With the assistance of the Arctic Energy Alliance, the conference will include information on the benefits of community energy planning; the sharing of best practices in energy planning and conservation initiatives; and the identification of resources available to community governments to develop their integrated community sustainability plan.

I will continue to provide my colleagues with information on our progress and activities undertaken through the Gas Tax Agreement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Good morning. The new Education, Culture and Employment, ECE, strategic plan for 2005-2015, Building on Our Success, highlights the need to improve English language literacy levels of adults in the Northwest Territories.

People who have low literacy skills are challenged to understand and use information from texts, such as newspaper stories, brochures and instruction manuals. These are important skills that help us manage our daily lives and enter into the labour force.

Data from the 2003 international adult literacy and skills survey, IALSS, was recently released by Statistics Canada. The survey showed that 42.6 percent of working age adults in the Northwest Territories had a literacy score below functional levels in prose literacy. This is about the same as the Canadian average, Mr. Speaker.

While our literacy rates overall are the same as the rest of Canada, the IALSS report revealed a significant discrepancy between aboriginal and non-aboriginal adult English literacy levels; 68.9 percent of working age aboriginal adults are below functional literacy levels. In comparison, only 29.8 percent of non-aboriginal NWT adults test below functional level.

This information confirms what we already know: although overall literacy levels in the Northwest Territories are improving, a large percentage of our population struggle with literacy challenges. It confirms the need to keep investing in training to address low literacy rates, especially among aboriginal adults. To this end, we continue to work on a number of initiatives.

We are partnering with Aurora College to revise the beginner levels of the adult literacy and basic education curriculum. We are also investing in curriculum resource development and adult educator training to strengthen adult literacy and basic education delivery. We are continuing our focus on family literacy by working with the NWT Literacy Council and communities to offer a variety of family literacy projects. Six new libraries opened in 2005-2006 to provide residents with more access to reading materials. We have invested in our schools through the student success initiative, many aspects of which focus on literacy. We have implemented achievement testing in language arts and math in grades 3, 6 and 9, so we see how we are doing as a system and measure the development of literacy and numeracy skills in our students.

An evaluation of the 2001-2005 Literacy Strategy is being undertaken in 2006. Following that, ECE will develop a renewed Literacy Strategy.

The new strategy will consider recent data, including the international adult literacy and skills survey, territorial and Canadian literacy rates and trends, and the lessons we have learned from the past five years of program delivery.

We must continue our work to improve adult literacy levels to ensure that all northern residents can achieve their potential and have the opportunity to participate in our booming labour market. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Ministers' statements. Members' statements. The honourable member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to take this opportunity, once again, to speak in support of the COP program in Yellowknife, otherwise known as Citizens on Patrol, which has been running in our community for the past three years. Mr. Speaker, this group rose out of a meeting back in a 2001 where hundreds of Yellowknifers showed up to protest and resolve to work towards some concrete actions together to move back the tide of ever-increasing violent crimes and the epidemic of drug use, drug trafficking in Yellowknife.

Mr. Speaker, this happened when the community said out loud that we have had enough and we are not going to take it anymore. Mr. Speaker, in many ways, we have seen much progress since then. There have been a number of significant RCMP arrests that really put a dent in the criminal and drug trafficking elements of the community, but the RMCP cannot be everywhere all the time and this is where the COP volunteers come in. They are there to cover the gaps in communities, but they

remain highly under-resourced, overworked and under-appreciated. They do their job by driving around in gas guzzling surplus vehicles, but often they have to pay for their own gas and equipment. They also spend a lot of time looking for sponsors to cover their expenses for training and equipment.

Mr. Speaker, I believe very strongly that what they are doing for our community is very important and their work should be applauded and supported and, at minimum, they should not be put in a place of having to fork out their own money to cover very basic essential expenses that they need to have to run this very important program.

Mr. Speaker, I can tell you that this government has supported this program. They've understood the importance of it in the past and I would urge the Minister and the government to continue to do so. I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, these cops do not bite. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Ms. Lee. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mankind has not been very smart and does not have a very good record when it comes to managing some wildlife species. We have a long list of grave mistakes, Mr. Speaker: the bison of the plains, the passenger pigeon, the codfish off Newfoundland and now we are looking at some management plans for one of the great resources here in the North and those are the herds of caribou.

Mr. Speaker, it's kind of early days yet, but the Minister, in releasing the plan yesterday, made it very clear that this is a rolling agenda and something that is open to input. I would like to offer a bit of comment from what I have heard so far, Mr. Speaker.

The overall decision to take a precautionary stance at this time and take some measures to reduce the harvest, I think, is a good one and is generally accepted among just about all sectors of the NWT. There are a couple of variances though, Mr. Speaker, and some gaps in our overall strategy and in the way we are gathering and collecting information. One of them, for instance, seems to be considerable variance, Mr. Speaker, on the impact of predators on our herds. We have numbers listed in the government's plan, for instance, that wolves may take as few as 20, while some traditional hunters are suggesting that a wolf may take as many as 50. I think we need some work done on that one.

I think also, Mr. Speaker, as some sectors have called for quite consistently, we need to look very carefully at how we monitor and assess the health and size of our herds. It's becoming more and more apparent, for instance, Mr. Speaker, that herds change, they shift and merge and split from each other and I don't know that there is a lot of confidence in this approach to really knowing what the status is. Mr. Speaker, the position to keep an open mind and get back together again in the near future to look at this strategy again is the right one. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Many residents in the Northwest Territories go to bed each night and take for granted an often overlooked but very important service: police protection. The other day, the Minister responded to comments raised by my Nunakput colleague with the possible arrangements whereby a police officer could be stationed in a small community with another peace or enforcement officer such as a wildlife officer. For years, this is exactly what the communities have been asking for: additional resources and flexible arrangements. This has been a long time coming. Now, will this Minister follow through?

Recently, as well, there were discussions concerning a pilot project in Gameti whereby two officers could be stationed there for the winter months until spring to offset the increase in drugs and alcohol from the opening up of the ice roads. This government and the RCMP recognize that there is a problem and it's only going to get worse. Without police protection, it is often the most vulnerable who are impacted, the greatest abused: women, the elderly and children.

Studies have shown that with police presence, the number of specific incidents could be less, depending on other conditions. Concerns were raised by my constituents and, as well, through pre-budget consultations in all small and remote communities with regard to presence of policing.

Last session in this great Assembly, I raised the issue of residents' safety being jeopardized due to response times and loss of policing positions. Mr. Speaker, as expressed, triple AAA is needed; adequate, accessible and accountable police services.

There is the opinion that community police funding from the federal government earmarked specifically for aboriginal people in the NWT is not all going to its intended purposes. Large portions of funding are going to central administration. Mr. Speaker, residents' safety should never be evaluated along with money. Police are often stationed in small and remote communities during special functions or circumstances such as the one in Gameti. This criteria should be considered for all communities. This growing perception of less police patrols is something this government must work at in regaining the confidence of our communities. Mahsi cho.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to make a statement regarding elders and their work. (Translation ends)

...to talk about the importance of elders in our culture. Traditionally, elders play a large part in passing on the

stories, traditions and knowledge of our culture. Many generations of family often live together, so that children can learn from their grandparents, Mr. Speaker. The elders are the teachers in our communities.

The experience and knowledge the elders bring to our people could be compared to our education system today. Many of our elders would hold Ph.D.s if we recognized their traditional knowledge for its value to our communities and ways of life. Industry has recognized the value of this knowledge, Mr. Speaker. They often call upon our elders for advice about the land or the animals when seeking permission to use our land, Mr. Speaker.

When we attend workshops or conferences, we often call upon experts to teach us about the particular subjects. We will pay these experts some large amounts of money for their consultant fees, whether it be hundreds or thousands, Mr. Speaker. Yet, we often expect our own experts to work for a nominal fee, or free of charge, Mr. Speaker. We expect our elders, our traditional knowledge Ph.D.s, to donate their time.

Schools and learning centres, community groups, often call upon the elders to teach the youth, Mr. Speaker. Funding for cultural activities does not allow these groups to pay for the elders what they truly deserve for their knowledge.

Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, this pay also affects the elders' pension. The money is essentially clawed back, Mr. Speaker.

Then to add insult to injury, Mr. Speaker, the government system requires that all cheques be processed through FMBS, the standard system. This means an elder may have to wait up to two or three weeks at the most.

This problem is just not in my community, but other communities in the North. I ask you, Mr. Speaker, is this the kind of respect we should pay those who give us life and are the bearers of our traditional knowledge? I think not, Mr. Speaker. I have questions for the Minister of ECE at the appropriate time. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Members' statements. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Villeneuve.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my Member's statement today is about the interim measures that this government is considering to deal with the declining caribou herd numbers. Mr. Speaker, the issue of caribou harvesting policies or limitations, and who these policies and limitations should be applied to and at what levels, have always been a contentious issue with this government and with northerners.

The public reaction to government policy in an area as sensitive as harvesting rights and limits are always met with either a lot of uptake or with just as much opposition. Mr. Speaker, finding middle ground is not always

achievable, especially when we are talking about a wildlife resource which is regarded as a basic sustenance for many, cost-savings for some and a sport for others.

Mr. Speaker, this is why I want to stress the importance of finding a solution or a direction which will get us closest to this middle ground as possible. I do agree that we have to address the declining numbers of caribou issue before it becomes irreversible, but I do not agree with the process that has been taken to develop these so-called interim measures. We are all aware of the difficulty to get this government to change or revisit policies once they've been established or implemented; one main reason being that the government always says that they need to give it some time and see what happens, good or bad, and then make some changes after results are tabulated. Well, Mr. Speaker, at the end of the day, I do not want to find out that these interim measures did not meet the government's or the public's expectation. Much to the dismay of many residents who did not have any input, they will be saying I told you so.

I want the Department of Environment and Natural Resources to do a thorough evaluation of what this policy should include or exclude, and very seriously consider traditional knowledge as an integral component to finding an agreeable and workable caribou management plan...

...a plan we can all be confident and say that northern residents, and especially aboriginal people and the elders, have agreed to work with, and a plan that they themselves are confident will work for the betterment of the people, their traditions and, last but not least, our wildlife. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Members' statements. The honourable Member from Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today my Member's statement is about the need to ensure that adequate housing is available for those people who need it most. Mr. Speaker, I believe that this government can be defined by how it treats its people. I fully believe that those actions are demonstrated, in essence, how we treat and take care of our sick, elderly and disabled. I've spoken a number of times on this matter and I feel very strongly that we need to do more for those who need assistance; that is, basic assistance, far beyond their personal reach, Mr. Speaker. I'm talking about assistance that they deserve.

I ask myself continually, are we doing enough. Are we making every reasonable effort that guarantees an enjoyable life for those who struggle day to day with the simplest of tasks? In many cases, I believe very strongly that this government cares; however, just caring isn't enough. Warm words are welcoming; however, actions are truly instrumental.

I've spoken on these occasions to bring forward the concerns of many constituents who struggle getting into their doors, washing basic simple dishes in their sinks, and even just getting home at the end of the day. I believe this government needs simple steps to guarantee a minimum level of care. I believe minimum level of care that can be measured only through a policy that enshrines standards of care for our sick, elderly and disabled people.

I've risen in this House to plead this case a number of times and to the good Minister who has worked with me on bringing forward a barrier-free housing in our city. But I believe our government needs a policy that shows that we seriously take this matter wholeheartedly and we want to do more.

I know this government is listening, Mr. Speaker, but I want to ensure that they are acting. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Member's statements. The honourable Member from Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I thought I'd put on my rubber boots and wade into the Novel debate.

---Laughter

You know, we've heard the argument from all angles; concerns that the government's being used as a lobby group, to the Members saying that these homes are needed in their communities. They all have legitimate arguments and they'd just like some concrete answers and some action from the government. But today, Mr. Speaker, I'd like to speak on the training aspect of the project.

Ideally, we'd like to see the northern manufactured products being used; but if not possible, then we want to see all northern labour used. If they plan on using northern people and not just use them for cheap labour or to fill a quota, then I can support the concept. We have to know that at the end of the day, our workforce will benefit from the training and come out of it as qualified tradesmen.

We need to know that our qualified workforce will be responsible for the conversion, and not some company from the South.

Mr. Speaker, even though we don't all agree on the Novel project, some may support the project if it makes good business sense and northerners benefit from the supplying of all modular homes or the conversions. I will have questions for the Minister of Housing at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Members' statements. The honourable Member from Nunakput, Mr. Pokiak.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Since we are reviewing the budget for the Department of Justice in Committee of the Whole today, I thought it would be appropriate to once again raise the issue of communities without an RCMP presence. I will speak particularly to the community of Sachs Harbour.

Yesterday on CBC Radio, the Honourable Brendan Bell, Minister of Justice, spoke about what the department is doing to address the needs of communities without RCMP officers, and that the issue was more than just putting an officer into a community. Also there needs to be fiscal infrastructure in place.

Mr. Speaker, I would like just to clarify, for the record, that the necessary infrastructure is in place in the community of Sachs Harbour to post an RCMP officer there sooner, rather than later. There is already dedicated accommodations available for the RCMP when and if they visit, and there's an operational detachment complete with a jail, garage and a vehicle. So you see, Mr. Speaker, there is the infrastructure already in place for a full-time officer in Sachs Harbour. The question is now, when will the department and the RCMP come to agreement that will allow for the posting of an RCMP officer?

In my last Member's statement on the issue, I spoke of the community having problems recently involving the dangerous use of a firearm. The RCMP were able to respond within three hours, upon receiving the complaint. But the weather will and can dictate the response time.

Mr. Speaker, will it require a person to die before the GNWT and the RCMP can manage to put an officer into Sachs? I would certainly hope not. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Pokiak. Members' statements. The honourable Member from Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to speak today in regard to an issue brought to me by a constituent. My constituent, formerly of the community of Behchoko, is having a very difficult time dealing with the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. I have met with my constituent many times, trying to understand the reasons why they are not being treated fairly or in a timely fashion.

In 1997, my constituent received two separate letters from the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. The first on July 4th, at which time the Housing Corporation told her that her mortgage was valued at $139,000, and if she accepted the offer, her mortgage would be discounted by $84,000, leaving just a balance of $55,000 that she'd need to obtain from a bank.

Five days later she received another letter, on July 9th, that stated her mortgage balance was, indeed, $139,000 and that it would be discounted by $55,000, leaving a balance of $84,000 to obtain from the bank.

In 1997, my constituent was unable to arrange for a payout, regardless of how many different figures the Housing Corporation had provided to her. From 1997 onward, she pursued an education and is now in a position to arrange financing for the purchase of her unit in Behchoko. The problem is, the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation want her to pay the full amount of $139,000. It would only seem fair that she'd be able to purchase the house for the same price in 1997, adjusted, if need be, to a present-day figure.

In pursuing an education, she had to come to Yellowknife. She had no choice in this. By removing the payout option and adding the penalty of paying the full amount, she's being unfairly penalized for advancing her education.

If my constituent is unable to pay out the mortgage, she will have no choice but to discontinue her education, resign from her employment here in Yellowknife, and the mortgage will revert back to a forgivable loan. This is not in anyone's best interest.

She's maintaining her studies part time while working full time, and I'd like to keep her as a constituent, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time, I'll have questions for the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Members' statements. The honourable Member from the Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, now the gloves come off.

Mr. Speaker, I want to talk about the Sahtu region in terms of some of the history and culture that we have in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, the Sahtu, the word itself translates into bear water, which is the closest translation we can have in regards to the English language. It's more than that, however, that's the closest that we could have it said in the English language.

The Sahtu is comprised of 120,000 square miles without our settled land claim area. We have a total of 12,000 square miles of the world's best fishing: Great Bear Lake. As a matter of fact, I think the world's record for trout was caught in that lake there. The elders refer to Great Bear Lake as the heart of Denendeh, the heart of the land here. Also with the recent announcement of Deline being the birthplace of ice hockey in Canada, we can't get any better than that. I'd like to see an NHL official game be held where hockey was born. Hockey night in the Sahtu has a good ring to it there. Mr. Speaker, need I say more about Great Bear Lake?

Mr. Speaker, the Sahtu also has magnificent mountains on the west side of the Mackenzie River. To the west, we have world-class hunting areas in the mountains there. We have a world-class heritage trail that's being developed right now. It's called the Canol Trail that has huge, huge significance to the people in the Northwest

Territories. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, the world's rack for musk-ox was caught in the Mackenzie Mountains.

Mr. Speaker, we have lots to offer in the Sahtu region. We deal with many chiefs, many mayors, and many Metis presidents and land corporations. So our region is very diverse. However, when we put our mind together, we move things in positive ways. So I want to let the people know that in our culture, in Colville Lake and Fort Good Hope, there's stores of legends there. In Colville Lake they have story of creation and the...(inaudible)...of caribou, as one of people have indicated that we were once a caribou people and then we turned back into...So there's lots of history to the Sahtu that I think this government could benefit from and also the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Members' statements. Returns to oral questions. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. I'll take the opportunity to welcome visitors in the gallery today. I hope you're enjoying the session. It's always nice to have an audience.

Before we go on, Members, to the next order on the Order Paper, I would like to now provide my ruling on the point of order raised by Mr. Handley on Thursday, February 16th, 2006.

During Members' statements, the honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Handley, rose on a point of order claiming that the Member for Yellowknife Centre had contravened Rule 23(i) of the rules of the Legislative Assembly.

In reviewing Mr. Hawkins' statement in unedited Hansard, I noted that the Member for Yellowknife Centre made the following assertions, and I quote from page 2465: "Mr. Speaker, the Premier has said time and time again this is just a letter and there's nothing to worry about. Well, the same thing was said about the gun registry, Mr. Speaker. It's just going to cost a couple of million dollars; there's nothing to worry about. The same thing was said about the sponsorship scandal just a couple of years ago with the Liberals; nothing to worry about, just a couple of Liberals out of control. I think, Mr. Speaker, whenever a politician utters the words "nothing to worry about" Canadians start to get nervous."

Colleagues, what is now before the Chair is whether Rule 23(i) has been compromised. It states, and I quote from our rules, "In debate a Member will be called to order by the Speaker if the Member imputes false or hidden motives to another Member."

As I have stated before in this House, the interpretation of any Member's language and the tone must be taken into the context of that specific moment in time, and the Chair must attempt to balance the actual words that were spoken with the reaction and responses of other Members of the House, recognizing that particular uniqueness of the situation.

Taken into full context, I find that it is difficult to conclude that Mr. Hawkins' comments constituted a contravention of our rules. His decision to question the honesty and integrity of the political profession is, of course, regrettable, but does not, in itself, constitute a violation of the House rules.

The Chair does not find that the spirit and intent of Mr. Hawkins' words, and the subsequent reaction of the House, were severe enough to constitute a breach of Rule 23(i). Mr. Hawkins did not intend to imply that the letter of comfort signed by the Premier was in any way dishonest, illegal or immoral. He was, in my view, attempting to make the case that the actions by governments often can and have lead to unforeseen consequences. While his choice of analogy was unfortunate and very close to the line, it does not, in my opinion, constitute unparliamentary language. Therefore, the Member for Weledeh does not have a point of order.

I would like to take this opportunity, however, to again caution Members to consider very carefully the words and expressions that are used in this House. I trust that all Members will continue to make every effort to operate with the utmost dignity and respect towards their other colleagues on the floor of this House.

Thank you, Members, for your attention.

Orders of the day. Oral questions. The honourable Member from Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member's statement I spoke to the training aspect of the Novel project and I think it's something that I have a great deal of concern with, and I'd like to ask the Minister of Housing a few questions. I'd like to know from the Minister of Housing, who would be responsible for the recruitment of the northern workforce to go down to get trained. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we haven't made that decision at this time. We are developing a human resource component of the Novel housing to see what opportunities will come by way of the conversions in the communities, and identifying the individuals that we're going to need. Also, Mr. Speaker, we will be working in conjunction with the Department of Education and training and try to implement these programs through our college program in the Northwest Territories so we can develop through our trades programs, either through the regional colleges or even though the local colleges in the different communities. So we are working with developing a human resource strategy to go along with the Novel project, and working with my colleague from the Department of Education to develop into a curriculum program through the college program. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The human resource part of this project is something that we're probably going to have to get on with right away because it's going to take four years to have these guys as qualified tradesmen. That would be my second question, is who would monitor their progress and will they come out of it as qualified tradesmen after they're done working down in the factory? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Maybe two questions there, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, we are looking at the whole area of building capacity in the North, especially in our trades areas. We are working in conjunction with the existing housing programs we have. We're looking at trying to put 500 houses on the ground over the next three years. There again we want to ensure we start identifying these people so that they can get their apprenticeship tickets, and hopefully get the journeymen that will come along. So when Novel comes down the road, we're looking at four or five years down the road, that this will flow into that. So we'll develop it into our existing programs and moving it forward so that we can identify these individuals at the front end so that when we do the conversions for Novel we'll already have the people identified through that human resource strategy we're working on. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Your final supplementary, Mr. McLeod.

That leads into my third question, is having the people identified. I'd like to ask the Minister, after the trailers have been used as workforce housing, who then would be responsible for overseeing the conversion into residential homes? Who would be responsible to oversee it? I know who might be responsible for doing some of the work on it. It's hopefully our northern workforce that we're going to have trained. But the actual overseeing the project of the conversions is what I would like to know. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we are working in conjunction with, like I mentioned, we're developing a human resource strategy. But we also want to ensure that we have control of the overall project, so it will be managed through the Housing Corporation to look at the training needs that are going to be identified in communities, contracts that we're going to need, and also the human resources that are in those communities and who has the capacity to do it. So we will work it through our local housing authorities and our regional housing organizations.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Oral questions. The honourable Member from Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker...(Translation)...during my Member's statement, I want to ask the Minister regarding...(Translation ends)

...I spoke highly of recognizing our elders for their expertise and wisdom, as we would with our northern and southern consultants. Mr. Speaker, question to ECE Minister: Can the Minister investigate a standard of pay for organizations using elders' knowledge, somewhat like the pay scale that we have established for other areas of expertise, such as teachers or consultants, that will recognize the value of such knowledge and services? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think that it is important to say that the department and this government recognize the value of advice that we receive from elders, and we encourage local education councils to involve elders in their programs in the schools. We can certainly take a look at whether or not it would be possible to establish a standard of pay, but I suspect that would be very difficult because then there would have to be some assessment of elders' knowledge, and I think that goes against the understanding of traditional knowledge. I don't know. I'd have to talk with the Member about whether or not there is a standard that could be recognized. But I'm certainly willing to meet with the Member and his leaders and talk about what we might do on this area. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my next question will be, has the department looked into alternative ways to pay elders such that their pensions are not penalized? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I advised the House yesterday and I believe on previous occasions, we are in the process of reviewing our income security structures and how we deal with people who are elders, with people who are disabled, with people who are in other classifications is something we're going to discuss as we go through this process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my final question could be a recommendation, but the question to the Minister: Would the department consider paying elders in other ways, such as on a contractual basis, to avoid long delays in the government pay system that's created? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There's no impediment to local education authorities or other bodies making up a contract with an elder. That could be something that they could undertake on their own responsibility. The department itself doesn't hire people to go into the schools or in the areas where the divisional education councils have responsibility. That is something that can be done at the local level. But all payments now are being done through FMBS. If there are areas of concern in a region, then if I'm advised of that, I'll certainly take the issue up with my colleague, the Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Oral questions. The honourable Member from Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My question today is for the honourable Minister responsible for Justice, just with respect to my Member's statement and the request from constituents and communities for increasing the policing presence in their community. Is there a current or existing plan that the department's working on in order to look at increasing policing presence in the communities? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister responsible for Justice, Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would point to a couple of things we're doing, some work currently underway. I think as Members know, our Department of Justice and the RCMP have established a joint working group that is looking at and examining various options available to increase police presence in our smaller communities. They are serviced from the larger centres. We want to make sure that we have an improved and enhanced presence in these communities. So that work is underway, Mr. Speaker.

I'd also point to I think we're in the fourth year now -- the final year, at any rate -- of our response to the comprehensive submission by the RCMP for additional resources. I think over the past few years, we're talking about 28 additional police officers across the Northwest Territories. We'll discuss this again today, but I think in this year's budget the number is six to bring that total up to 28. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Just with respect to enhancing the presence and the request for 28 additional positions, this is probably based on some previous work, as well. I'm not too sure if there was a report based on that there, Mr. Speaker. However, I'm just wondering if it's taking into account the new increased pressures of resource development, of pipelines, particularly, passing through my region, and the need to have an established presence in the communities because of increased drugs and alcohol incidents that will happen. Has that report been taken that into consideration, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our response to this multi-year submission and to this, in effect, business plan submitted by the RCMP and the additional 28 officers, does take into account the pressures of development in the North. The RCMP are very well aware and very cognizant of this issue. It is driving our needs. I would also point to our hope that as we see some of this $500 million socio-economic impact fund roll out in our regions and in our communities, some of that will be earmarked or targeted for policing resources.

As the Member has pointed out, and rightly so, I believe, if we can enhance our police presence in our communities, we have a better chance of keeping other resources in the communities, such as nurses. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I'm glad the Minister mentioned the nurses, because my next question is just more specifically geared towards a community like Wrigley who can't get the professional services of nurses due to the lack of a police officer. So is the ministry working along with the Department of Health and Social Services, coming up with a plan to address this specific community's concern? Mahsi.

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Bell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We do have an agreement of social program Ministers. We meet together frequently. These are the kinds of issues we discuss. I have discussed this specific issue with Minister Miltenberger. He's very much aware of it. It is our goal and is our aim, as a government, to be able to

deal with some of these pressing needs. I know about the situation in Wrigley and I am hopeful that through programs like the socio-economic impact fund we can roll out additional funding and respond to some of the needs in our smaller communities. It is a priority for this government, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bell. Oral questions. The honourable Member from the Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, the honourable Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister: Considering the recent announcement of the interim measures of the caribou situation in the Northwest Territories, will the Minister consider implementing a territorial education campaign with the other departments on the caribou herd, enlisting the use of the elders in our regions? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have, as part of the interim measures, identified the need for public education and awareness as one of the primary and first areas we want to move on and work with the regions and communities on. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I look forward to that education campaign. Mr. Speaker, I want to again ask the Minister, would he consider using primarily the elders under the traditional policy that the government has to use the traditional knowledge policy to have an impact on this educational campaign? We need to use the elders in terms of this education campaign. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the use of traditional knowledge is one of the types of knowledge that we've used to get to where we are today, and I commit to the Member that we will continue to use the traditional knowledge and the experience and knowledge of the elders, and we will be working with the wildlife boards region by region to look at how we want to best work on this public education campaign, and that will include, as the Member has suggested, using all the skills and the knowledge that elders possess. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again I look forward to the input from our elders and to see how it plays out in the educational campaign program. Mr. Speaker, the Colville Lake people have a story up in Colville Lake about the creation of the world, and they have a story about the creation of caribou, and I want to ask the Minister when they're conducting surveying methods, would they consider strongly the use of the aboriginal method of conducting surveys of our caribou as part of their education campaign? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Miltenberger.

We will strongly consider that, yes, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation and it goes back to my Member's statement and the fact that government should be about trying to help residents move ahead and be successful. I think the Minister of ECE should also be paying attention to the questions that I'm going to be asking today, because what it would seem like to me is that the Housing Corporation is willing to turn its back on an aboriginal woman who's pursuing an education and is gainfully employed. I'd like to ask the Minister if he's aware, or I know that he is aware that there is a dispute here over what is fair and reasonable in this case. I know the Minister knows about this case. I'd like to ask him, what is the process that the Housing Corporation has for dispute resolution with people wanting closure on something? Are lawyers the only way out, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am unable to respond to this question because it is a legal matter that is before the courts. They have retained a lawyer and I will not respond to this question. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The Minister has refused to answer this question because it's before the courts. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister answered my question for me. It's

before the courts and he can't answer. I'd like to ask the Minister if the Housing Corporation has ever thought about coming up with some type of alternate dispute resolution mechanism so that folks don't have to go the legal route. They don't have to go into court with the Housing Corporation on what is fair and what is reasonable. Disputes can be resolved without having to go to court and I'd like to ask the Minister if the Housing Corporation has embarked on a plan to try to get people out of having to go to court with the Housing Corporation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in regards to individual clients, we do deal with each individual case by case and it falls under the parameters of what the situation is. We do have policies and procedures that deal with mortgages and how we deal with our clients. But again, Mr. Speaker, there are different types of circumstances, like the Member mentioned, that when students do go off to school we do allow them that, we do not charge them, or we basically hold their unit for them during that period of time when they're going to school. But there are also certain conditions attached to that in which the individuals have to abide by. Again, we deal with a person or application individually and we do have a process in place how we have rules and procedures to deal with those. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, like I mentioned in my Member's statement, I wouldn't want to see my constituent, even though one of my colleagues might be happy that they moved back to the community of Behchoko and take up social housing in the community of Rae and live in a unit with a forgivable loan, I don't want to see that happen. I don't want to see her become another statistic. I'd like to ask the Minister, doesn't the Housing Corporation have anything they could negotiate with clients on compassionate grounds? Don't they have any compassion at the Housing Corporation that would allow them to negotiate with people so they don't have to go to court? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we try to do everything we can to be as compassionate as we can to our clients. We realize that without them, we won't be in this business. But again, we are trying to find solutions to these problems. But in this case, again, it's before the courts. The individual has retained a lawyer, and that's why we're unable to proceed. Until it goes through that process, we are unable to move until we work out an arrangement where we can try to resolve it outside the legal process. But because it's before the legal process, we are unable to discuss or debate it at this time. We are willing to work with the individual on this. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Braden.

Mr. Speaker, Mahsi. My questions this morning are for Mr. Miltenberger in his capacity as the Minister for energy and natural resources in regards to the caribou strategy, Mr. Speaker. Information contained in the strategy document tells us that at least among the known harvest we're looking at a minimum of 11,000 animals. Mr. Speaker, it also tells us that at least with the best information we have, and some of this information is eight or 10 years old, it also tells us that existing herds in the NWT probably number around 600,000. So something that's plain to me is that we are not in a panic or emergency situation. But paying attention to what seems to be rapidly declining numbers is, as I said earlier in my statement, a good position to take.

Now, long-term measures continue to be worked out. In the meantime, the government has taken some steps as precautionary measures. One of them, Mr. Speaker, is that a bulls-only harvest restriction has been imposed on all residents and sport hunters. Mr. Speaker, the question that I'd like to ask regards whether this restriction also applies to aboriginal harvesters, who I know, and understand, are covered under some land claim agreements. But, Mr. Speaker, if it makes good sense to protect the cows at this time, why is it or how will aboriginal harvesters be considering whether or not this kind of restriction should apply among themselves, as well, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, one of the main goals here is to get good blue chip information, both on the herd numbers as well as the number of animals being taken. We can track the sports hunters and the resident hunters. The one gap on the number of animals taken is the aboriginal harvest piece, and we're working with all the management boards to look at how we set up monitoring stations and such to be able to get a better handle on the number. That's one thing. The bulls-only, at this point, applies to resident hunters. As the Member will note in the information I gave out to the Members on interim measures, there have been decisions made by some of the boards that are putting very strict limits themselves on the harvest, limiting the commercial harvest and the amount of quota in general that they're allowing on, for example, the Cape Bathurst herd, as well as the Bluenose West. So we're going to work collaboratively with the boards to get the best information possible, then we're going to come back next fall and look at what all this information tells us and then plan for some next steps. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Also related to the bulls-only harvest restriction for non-aboriginal hunters is a concern that I've heard expressed is that, especially at this time of year, Mr. Speaker, it's very difficult to tell, under the kind of conditions that we hunt, the difference between bulls and cows. But I also understand, Mr. Speaker, that there are penalties and they can be quite severe if a hunter is convicted of killing a cow, whether or not by accident. I was wondering whether, in applying this restriction, has ENR considered the potential for mistakes to be made? Have they considered the consequences that it may have in the case of mistakes and accidents that it may have for a hunter, and whether or not this could potentially result in even wasted meat as hunters decide to shut down their hunt and not report this kind of thing, even though it may be an accident, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. A couple of questions there. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Clearly, when you make rule changes there is going to be a transition period, but, once again, clearly the person whose finger is on the trigger is going to have to be sure and be responsible for the animal that he or she decides to shoot. If they have trouble distinguishing between a bull and a cow, then I would suggest they have to take the appropriate measures for certainty before they pull the trigger. Will there be mistaken identities? Possibly. I understand, for the most part, the bulls and cows are not necessarily together and that there's a clear ability to distinguish them, to do an equipment check or look at the antlers, those type of things, and make the decision. So the person who's pulling the trigger will be ultimately responsible, so they better be sure.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

...(inaudible)...just to give us a basis for this, what are the penalties? What are the consequences of conviction for mistakenly or otherwise killing a cow caribou for non-aboriginal harvesters, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Miltenberger.