Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So to go back to some of the questions that I asked previously, I asked the Minister specifically what they're doing for the people who are hard to house. My question was if not social housing and if not the support of someone or an agency such as the NWT Housing Corporation, then who would be possibly taking these tenants on as clients? The Minister mentioned that they fund NGOs, and I'd like to ask the Minister are the NGOs that they fund -- and I assume he means related to housing and hard to house folks -- are any of them located outside of Yellowknife? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Krutko.

Yes, I believe we fund Turning Point out of Inuvik. I'm not too sure of anywhere else, but maybe the Minister of Health can help me out here, who is the Minister responsible for homelessness. We do, I believe, approve some $450,000 to go to NGOs for the homeless. If the Minister of Health would like to elaborate on the homelessness funding.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, there is money that's been put aside for this winter as we continue to work on a longer-term homelessness strategy or strategy for the homeless. There's some money that's been identified for Yellowknife and Inuvik and some in Hay River. As well, there's a fund of $150,000, I believe, that's been set aside for small communities to use on a case-by-case basis should there be circumstances that arise as there has been over the last number of months. It allows us to, on a short-term emergency basis, deal with those individuals that are called absolutely homeless, meaning they have no warm place to stay. In the longer term, we're looking at the issue of relative homelessness, but that's what Minister Krutko is engaged in in the longer term on the issue of relative homelessness. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Now I'm confused. Whose money is it? Is it the Health and Social Services' budget for this short-term and long-term relative homelessness, or is this money for the Housing Corporation? How much does the Housing Corporation put into hard to house, and I've got to tell you hard to house is not a short-term problem. Hard to house are people who have issues with their lifestyle perhaps, some have problems with mental illness, some have cognitive impairments, adults with FAS. Hard to house is not a short-term problem in the Northwest Territories, let me assure you. Who is the $450,000 from, Housing or Health? Thank you, Mr Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

The Minister of Health can take the question.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the issue that the Member raises is a very good one; well, it's not a good one, but it's a very difficult, complex issue. What we have had working together is the social envelope Ministers, which are Housing; Education, Culture and Employment; Health and Social Services; Justice; and Municipal and Community Affairs. We've put in a supplementary appropriation for this winter to deal with the issue of those folks over the course of the winter that have no place to stay periodically. I recognize that the hard to house is an ongoing problem and it is with us and it is going to continue to be with us. The concern about the funding for this winter was to make sure that we had the capacity to deal with those circumstances so that no one would freeze to death because they didn't have a warm place to stay over the winter. In the longer term, we're looking at expanded facilities. There's a homeless coalition in Yellowknife; Inuvik is working on some plans up there with their facility and the relative homelessness, which are those people that are inadequately housed within the longer-term mandate of the Housing Corporation. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We also support the Salvation Army by way of a rent supp, and also we do fund the Yellowknife Women's Centre and also homeless for basically transitional housing that is in Yellowknife. So we do fund different non-profit organizations, especially here in Yellowknife. So we do fund those organizations.

Thank you, Minister Krutko. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you. I'm still confused. Who funds those organizations; Health and Social Services or the NWT Housing Corporation? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Clarification, Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, we fund them through an interest-free loan on their mortgage. So part of their mortgage payments we deduct a certain portion. So we support them by way of funding them money towards their mortgage.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Going to my next point that I raised in my previous set, and that was emergency housing realities in view of six-month waiting periods. Now I think a lot of these obstacles I referred to earlier boil down to something, which it's hard to integrate into government policies, and that's common sense and some discretionary latitude for LHOs to use their own discretion to assess what is an emergency, what is a real need, what is something that needs to be responded to in terms of a housing need. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about people who are hard to house, or people who need emergency housing or people who, you know, it's just not a perfect science. There's unusual circumstances surrounding this from time to time. There's things going on in people's lives, there's family break-ups, people try things, they may even move south, they want to come back, things don't work out. Sometimes there needs to be some discretionary latitude and that's why LHOs have boards and that's why there are community representation on it so they can make those kinds of decisions. The Minister had mentioned before, Mr. Chairman, that they do hold houses for students, so if somebody doesn't want to go away and upgrade their education and wants to come back to the community, but doesn't want to go to the bottom of a waiting list again for housing, they hold it for students. Are there any other circumstances under which people could be away and get back into public housing without having to go on a six-month residency-type waiting list? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, under special circumstances, especially for medical reasons, we will hold the person's unit. If they have to go down south for treatment or whatnot, we will maintain those units. Again, the problem that we're having, especially with the LHOs, is we just don't have capacity for the number of people that are on our waiting lists. Roughly right now we have some 410 people on a waiting list to get into social housing. So because of the capacity issue, we're not able to accommodate, but the LHOs do make the decisions in regards to working with the clients and in most cases try to work with them by way of trying to sit them down and work out a payment plan if they have arrears, or try to make them aware that they do have to work off some of those arrears where they will hire them either locally or whatnot or give them a paint brush and say here, work so many hours so that you're able to work off your arrears. I think there's ways that they've tried to work with their clients, but again, because the biggest challenge we have is just the number of people that are on waiting lists, that's why we have such a shortage of not only houses, but also people that do get evicted or basically try to get back into the system, realize that you're at the bottom of the list and that there's other people ahead of you that are trying to get back into the system. So that's the biggest challenge we are facing right now, is because of the number of people that are on waiting lists and also to try to find ways of working with the clients to work off their arrears and try to make them aware that they do have responsibilities to work with them to work out those arrangements. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the Minister for not running the clock out because I know he'd be very capable of doing that if he wanted to. Mr. Chairman, one other question, it has to do with the rent scale and it has to do with seniors. I mean, I am very supportive of seniors; they've worked hard, they've contributed to our communities, I do believe they deserve a break. However, when we talk about housing in the context of a crisis in the Northwest Territories, I want to know what's happening with the housing rent scale for

seniors. Right now, as the system stands, and I do not begrudge any senior taking advantage of this program, as a matter of fact, I'm almost 50 and in 10 years I'm going to be 60 and if the government still has this program out there where anybody, regardless of income or means or pension or anything else, can get free housing with the NWT, I'm sure you're going to see...Baby boomers are coming up, you're going to see a lot of uptake. As a matter of fact, we do see it happening now and, like I said, these 12 seniors' duplexes that have just come up in Hay River are very nice little two-bedroom duplexes, but you have to understand there is no means test applied. So in fact, anybody 60 years or older can apply to live in there and if they're accepted, they get it. Now I just don't know how we reconcile that kind of support with what we keep calling the overcrowding and the severe shortage of housing. I don't know how we reconcile that kind of investment in seniors' units that we give for free regardless. It doesn't matter if you sold your house to move in there; it doesn't matter if you've got a government pension; it just doesn't matter. You are in for free housing. Now, like I said, the people who are taking it up I absolutely understand why they're doing it. I mean, it would be seriously tempting for anybody who could get a deal like that to take it. It's not their fault. The government is offering it; they're just stepping into that opportunity. But how do we rationalize that with our other demands on housing? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Minister.