Mrs.

Groenewegen, a

point of order?

Mr. Chairman, I have a point of order. Is Mr. Miltenberger speaking to this as a Minister of the cabinet, or he is speaking to this as the MLA for Thebacha?

I know there’s a motion on the floor, but I’ve got to tell you that I don’t think I’ve ever heard a Minister in this House speak to a capital project in his or her riding in this kind of a forum. I understand why Ms. Lee answered the question; she’s the Minister of Health. I understand why the Premier spoke to it; he brought forward the bill. I am not understanding in what capacity Mr. Miltenberger is speaking to this. Not that I’m trying to deny him, but it’s a process question I have. I’ve never seen it before.

Mrs. Groenewegen, you do not have a point of order, since you didn’t specifically state your order. But to be fair to all Members, this motion is before the House, and every Member has the right to speak to the motion. To be fair to everyone, everyone has had the right to speak to the motion.

Committee motion not carried.

Health and Social

Services, appropriation authority requested: $27,562,000.

Health and Social Services, $27,562,000

approved.

Justice, appropriation

authority required: $1,610,000. We’re on Justice, page 6, supplementary appropriation. Mr. Menicoche.

Thank you very much for the opportunity to talk about a couple of the expenditures planned and most particularly the fencing projects. I wasn’t too clear on the reasoning for it. I know that the North Slave adult facility perimeter fencing and the North Slave young offender security fencing are planned here in the appropriation. I’d just like to know more about why it’s got to be in this appropriation and what the urgency is of expending it in this appropriation.

Mr. Chairman, it’s perimeter fencing to ensure that the design work can be completed and that tenders of construction allow for summer completion. In both cases Minister Lafferty may have more detail to provide as to why this should proceed at this time. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, on the question of the perimeter fencing, at both the NSCC and also the young offenders facility at the present time the property is deficient at the current stage. We have incomplete or inadequate fencing currently at both facilities. As the Premier indicated, the requirement is to provide safety for the offenders, the staff and the public. That’s part of the reason we’re bringing this forward, so that the construction can happen this summer and then proceed with the fencing of both facilities. Mahsi.

Mr. Chairman, thank you to the Ministers for answering that. This didn’t really answer the why question, I suppose, because I’m still uncertain. I know there may be some safety issues, but I’m not really convinced that there are really deficiency issues here. If the Minister, I suppose, can give further detail on that, because I’m not convinced that it has to be in this appropriation. Once again, I’m just unclear about the purpose of the expenditures right now.

Mr. Chairman, for those who have had an opportunity to visit anyone in that facility, whether it be the young offenders or the adult facility, when you drive up, you realize there are no barriers to getting to the main facility itself. There are no gates, no fencing leading to the public area. If anything were to happen or someone were to manage to get out of the facility itself proper, there would be no barriers for them finding their way within the city. That is one of the concerns of

addressing the fencing around both facilities. Thank you.

Justice…. Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’d like to address a couple of the items relative to Community Justice and Corrections as well.

Two items are listed: Inuvik Young Offender Facility foundation issues and North Slave correctional centre all-erosion drainage modification. From the title of those two projects I’m guessing that there’s some urgency, that with one the foundation of the building is at issue and that with the other it’s an erosion and a drainage problem in and around the facility, but there is no information that tells me that. I’m simply given to understand that the work has to take place this spring. If I could get an explanation from the Finance Minister, that would be helpful.

Mr. Chairman, with the young offenders facility in Inuvik, the foundation issues have been there, unfortunately, almost since the construction of the facility was completed. There’s a portion of the building that is still settling — I guess that is the term that is used — that is causing other problems within the facility itself. This is one of the buildings in that community that is on-grade; that is the term that’s used. It’s not with the piling foundation. It’s on a passive refrigerant system.

Unfortunately, the area they’ve built on didn’t allow for the freezing to occur — that’s some of the discussion that’s happened — and whether it’s going to be used for that or re-profiled, whatever, that’s an asset that cost a bit of money and still needs to be maintained.

On the North Slave Correctional Facility, the information provided is that without the work being done before spring run-off, it will cause more damage from erosion around that facility.

Thank you for the explanation.

Mr. Chairman, just a general comment about a number of items in this appropriation. It’s really helpful if we could have some sort of an explanation, other than the fact that it needs to be done, in order for us to determine whether or not these things are urgent.

I have difficulty with all of the items under Community Justice and Corrections. They all indicate, or we’re given to understand, that work has to go ahead this summer, but it doesn’t tell us why.

I’d particularly like to ask about the aboriginal healing and spiritual program area. If I could get an explanation of what this area is intended for.

Mr. Chairman, I’ll have to defer that to the Minister of Justice. I believe he has

more accurate information than I could provide or even had provided the other day, so I’ll go to the Minister of Justice for that.

Mr. Chair, it is the outdoor spiritual and recreation program area that’s been highlighted here. It has been discussed, as has the need to have this area for this summer as the start of the project.

The specific area has been requested by the NSCC, the coordinator of the facility. A primary needs assessment has clearly identified the need for outdoors programs to address the spiritual, physical and recreational needs of the offenders. The intent of the program is to provide an expansion to these traditional recreation programs.

Currently, we do not have a facility — an area — specifically for aboriginal cultural and religious healing programs, so this is one area the department and Corrections want to utilize. That includes a trapper’s cabin, drying and stretching racks, elders’ cabin, tent, sweat lodge, feeding-the-fire structure and so forth. There are all these different projects within the time frame that has been outlined for the specific area.

Mr. Chair, I need to go back to the premise under which I had understood that items were in this appropriation. It doesn’t seem to be a safety issue. It doesn’t seem to be an already-in-progress contract issue. I question whether we should go ahead with the $225,000 expense when we have yet to determine how we are going to save $135 million. I would simply make that as a comment.

Mr. Chair, my questions on the Justice expenditures are similar. I still don’t understand why we have to build a perimeter fence. The $540,000 is a lot of money. I know the Premier tried to explain that, but why do we need a perimeter fence around North Slave Correctional Centre?

Mr. Chairman, the request from the Department of Justice is because right now anyone visiting those facilities has open access to the facilities. There are no gates or fencing that would stop people from entering or leaving, besides the actual structure. That is why it was brought forward in this manner. The Minister of Justice may have additional information to provide on these two projects.

Mr. Chair, we are trying to stay in line with other jurisdictions, to have secure premises for the safety of the public — just a security fence with a completely climb-proof upper section design, to prevent breaches of the security perimeter. This is one area that has been identified by Corrections as needed to prevent incidents such as escapes. Going to the facility, there are no gates

or anything similar, so it’s a safety aspect for the public at large. Mahsi.

Mr. Chair, is this perimeter fencing to keep the people in or to keep the people out? Is it to keep the public out or to keep the inmates in? The correctional centre has been operating for quite a while now, and I’d like to suggest we should probably have a better system in place than a chain-link fence.

Mr. Chairman, I think this is a matter of both scenarios: containing those who are incarcerated in the facility and, in some cases, keeping people away from those who are in the facility. Part of their mandate is the safety of both inmates as well as the public. What they have provided for information is to secure the environment around those facilities.

Mr. Chair, I can’t support it, not when we’re looking for 135 million ways to save money. I can’t support $540,000 for a fence, but I will vote when the time comes.

Mr. Chair, this capital is in my riding. I agree with some of the previous speakers. The jail has been in operation now for a number of years, and I haven’t heard of anybody escaping from the young offenders unit or the North Slave Correctional Centre any time lately.

Maybe I could ask the Justice Minister: how many escapees have we had from the North Slave Correctional Centre? Or I could ask the Premier: how many escapees have we had from the North Slave Correctional Centre and the young offenders unit since they opened?