Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Daniels.

Thank you, Mr. Daniels. Ms. Bisaro.

Okay. So if I go from being completely unemployed to a full-time job, I think that’s a little bit more than $200, if I’m understanding Mr. Daniels correctly. Is there any kind of a transition period for me going from unemployed to being fully employed and earning, I don’t know, $1,000 a week, say?

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Lafferty.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The incentive that we do provide that the deputy has alluded to, but we don’t have the transition period area that the Member is referring to at this point.

I guess to go back to my original question, is it something that the department is considering or would consider?

Certainly we need to discuss this further because it would be part of the productive choices that I just had a chat with my deputy exploring other options. Those are the areas we need to think about on a going-forward basis. Yes, we’ll certainly take those into consideration on the long-term basis.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Next on my list is Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Same line of question in regard to the Income Assistance Program. More importantly, in regard to the Public Rent Supp Program. I’ll use an illustration of a program that was run in Tsiigehtchic with regard to individuals who were in social housing who had arrears. The housing authority was able to develop a training program for people to rip down the older housing units to make way for new housing units. They tried to salvage what they could and, more importantly, they had a training component for a lot of the single mothers that were on the project. Half of their payment went to their arrears, the other half they got to keep, but they also got training. They managed to get the coverage for workers’ compensation to the housing authority. I think it’s in those type of projects that maybe this government can learn from and try to illustrate more of those programs. At the end of the day I think everybody went away happy. People had money in their pockets. They got trained. They paid off their bills. More importantly, they were able to salvage a lot of the materials and the community still uses those materials for other renovations they are doing in their community. I think it’s those types of incentives that we have to build from.

Again, I think that the whole idea regarding having people retain more money over a transitional period, I think that period you’re looking at is more like six months to a year. Allow these people to get the skills, but also have a system that instead of $200 here or $400 there I think you have to look at a larger portion. Let them keep 50 percent of their revenues, calculate the other 50 percent by way of what their rent is going to be. I think at the end of the day, once the people develop that relationship between the value of the money and the value of the work and the value of having to pay the bills, I think you’ll get a lot better product at the end of the day. I think you have to look at it as a give and take thing. You don’t just simply take, take, take. You give a little bit, let the individual that was on income support get some experience, get some skills, get some ability to earn some money, and at the end of the day don’t feel like they’ve been penalized because they happened to earn some money.

I think we have to look at these things and realize that we have some unique challenges in the North. A lot of our aboriginal communities and communities don’t have a long-term economy. Most of our economies in our small communities last only two or three months. You might get a winter gravel haul or you might see the summer works project by way of renovations or whatnot in your community. I think that we have to realize that we have these economies in the Northwest Territories and we have high unemployment and dependency on our social programs in a lot of our communities because of that. We have to find a way to stimulate these people to be able to feel that they won’t get penalized if they go to work or they know that because they’re going to be working that they’re going to be clawed back. I think it’s a system.

I know there are systems in other parts of the country. From people in Newfoundland, I know when we were there we met with the Newfoundland government in which they developed a lot of their programs around the whole idea of a 28-week period so they could take advantage of the federal unemployment insurance system so that people are able to get the federal dollars and also earn the time they need to get those dollars. I think that’s something that we should look at seriously in the Northwest Territories to stimulate employment, but also try to find ways to use federal dollars to subsidize some of our programs so that income support...We spent $23 million. Is there a way we can leverage another $20 million from the feds using the EI system?

For me it’s more of an overall idea that I think this government should seriously look at. Again, I know the whole idea of the Income Support Program when it was first out there. I know there was a lot of criteria that was put into it, a lot of emphasis was for training, getting people onto income support, they had to take training through upgrading or go to that Arctic College program or go to work. I think that seems like it’s not really the push that’s out there now. I think we have to get back to that in light of the cost of what this program is. Especially to find a balance between people who are attempting to work their way into the economy and earn their living and seeing other people, struggling homeowners, and seeing that they’re trying to take care of all their bills, then they realize that people in some cases are not paying any rent. If other people are paying very little rent yet people are struggling just to keep their lights on and their homes heated, I think we have to find a way to show that we are trying to make a difference, but, more importantly, using those programs.

I’d just again like to ask the Minister if he could consider looking at the concept that I mentioned that was used in Tsiigehtchic in which it was a good effort. Maybe work with the Housing Corporation to

see how that program worked and expand it in other communities.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I do appreciate the Member giving us ideas on being innovative in certain areas, to have productive choices for the clientele that we have with income security. So, certainly, we will seriously consider that. We need to look at all kinds of options right now.

I talked about possibly getting firewood for the elders, or fish. I think we need to really seriously look into all those in the small communities where there aren’t many jobs available. I like the idea and we can certainly take that as well.

I think we need to utilize these individuals that can work in the community. If we provide the subsidy for them to assess elders or assess the community, then we need to utilize their services in the community. There are also other projects in the community that they can tackle as well.

Not only that, but the Member also indicated maybe through the Housing Corporation we can work together. That clearly will be a partnership because we talked about the Apprenticeship Program, skill development and different areas of providing the tools for them to be ready to be out there. I think it is the tools that we can provide to them and then eventually get them off income security. Mahsi, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Next on my list is Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to follow up in a somewhat similar line of questioning on what Ms. Bisaro did earlier in the sense of taking a look at the grace period. For some reason, I seem to recall some information at one time coming forward about an analysis of this stage or step of rent when someone does get employment. To my knowledge, that was about five years ago. If memory serves me correctly, I seem to remember the Social Programs committee-of-the-day had brought forward something. I am going to ask the question this way. Perhaps the elder staff members will be able to remember this. I am hoping they do, if they really did do the work. I seem to recall something to that effect, that there was an analysis on a transition period or that staggered rent increases to what one could call normalized or market rent. Was there any work done that far back on this problem? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Lafferty.

Mr. Chairman, certainly we need to look to see what kind of work has been done in the past. I guess he can call me a rookie in this position, but certainly there are paper trails that we need to follow through with. If there has been a discussion on the grace period, then we need to follow through with that, along with Ms. Bisaro, about the transition period. We are considering that on the moving-forward basis so a grace period and transition period. There have been discussions in the past. Let’s move on that. Mahsi.

Mr. Chairman, this is just quick follow-up to see if there is any interest from the Minister, just to be clear. If there isn’t any work that goes that far back or, of course, if it was either lost or not even considered, would the department take a look at considering doing an analysis on what two weeks rent foregone would be, what would one month for rent foregone be if someone were to get a job under the context of a grace period? I think this type of analysis would be useful for Members when we consider something like this. The reason I suggested it in that sort of increment is if we have people who get behind the eight ball the moment they get a job, my fear is that it creates a slippery slope and very difficult to catch up. Of course, we have all heard of that choice. People then struggle with why should they be employed if they can’t afford the rent because they are already behind it? When they look into this, can they investigate it from that perspective as well, sort of a staggered approach? When I said that foregoing the whole rent for a couple of weeks, maybe even a month just to allow them get the head start that they could use. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, certainly if we are to go to this area, we need to do cost analysis as well, how much it is going to cost us in order to initiate that process. Yes, we will take those into consideration and find out the true costs of conducting this initiative. Mahsi.

This is not a question, just a comment. That is exactly what I am looking for, a cost analysis, better breakouts. Of course, it is a policy shift if that was the way they were to go. So I agree with that last point the Minister made. I look forward to any information he brings forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. We are on page 10-27, activity summary, income security, operations expenditure summary, $70.363 million.

We are moving on to page 10-28, activity summary, income security,

grants and contribution, grants, total grants, $8.850 million.

We are moving along to page 10-29. It is an information item, income security, active positions. Mr. Krutko.