Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the Social Housing Agreement that was signed in 1997 with the federal government, was one of the principles in this document, was to look at harmonization of our income support, harmonization of our policies with housing with the people of the Northwest Territories?

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation, Mr. Michael McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can’t say that I’m familiar with the agreement or all the different components of it. I

would be fairly comfortable in saying that the harmonization of income support programs and housing programs were not part of it. The whole idea and whole concept behind social housing is to provide affordable housing to the people in the Northwest Territories and CMHC has been a party to that on behalf of the federal government. They have now decided, having announced over the last couple of years, that they are moving out of this area and will no longer be providing subsidies. By the year 2038 we will not have any dollars flowing to us through this whole area of the agreement with the feds.

In my research regarding social housing, certainly the federal government started looking at that in the ‘60s and ‘70s and that the Social Housing Initiative was to help people with low income and low-income seniors make it into a national housing act and to create a one-stop shop for these targeted clientele. Part of the agreement, as is my understanding, was looking at the harmonization. I’m just wondering if this again is something that the federal government is somewhat arm-twisting us to look at this one-stop concept by having this program implemented in the last couple years with this agreement here.

I’m struggling to follow the line of questioning. The Member is raising the issue of income support. I understood that to mean programs. I’m assuming now with this new question that the ’97 agreement referenced income levels versus programs and low-cost housing to those people who are seniors or in need of housing and are having difficulties because of their income. That is still the intention. We have, of course, broadened our scope to address the many different needs across the Territories and we now include families that are fairly high on the income scale. We do use thresholds and income means assessments, but we do a lot more than the initial agreement intended us to do. We have other agreements, though, I have to point out, that are in place, new agreements that allow us to invest in other areas. So there is quite a broad area that we are responsible for now.

I’m looking at the Social Housing Agreement in terms of the principles and the conditions that we were signators to in 1997. One of my understandings is from the federal government in terms of the harmonization of the Social Housing Agreement, one of the principles was to harmonize the programs. So for low-income families, low-income seniors. Through this, creating a one-stop centre for this issue here in our communities seems like it’s not working. The funding will be declined in 2038 by the federal government. It seems that this policy here is something that came out of the federal government. I’m asking the Minister if that is one of the principles

in terms of this agreement that we signed with the federal government.

I don’t believe this whole arrangement with the transfer of some of the dollars to ECE to take part of or provide the subsidy component of housing was part of or as a result of the 1997 agreement. The principles behind the 2005 transfer was to be part of an overall income security review to create a one-stop shop for residents to access social programs and services by the GNWT to create economies of scale so that the ECE could look at enhancing their programs. The other principle was to ensure that all residents who lived in public housing understood the true cost of providing public living and accessing public housing programs.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

So the Social Housing Agreement is for low-income families and low-income seniors. That is what was agreed to by the federal government in terms of the definition. Now the program that we have implemented over the last four years was with streamlining a one-shop centre with ECE and Housing. Will the Minister take it with his Cabinet colleagues to look at the distinction between...because he’s blanketing everybody now to go into a centre that some people feel they don’t need to go to. Will the Minister review this and seriously consider specifically targeting the ones that specifically fall under the Social Housing Agreement with the federal government? Would the Minister consider reviewing this seriously and look at other ways for the people who do not need to go to ECE for subsidized housing?

We certainly will commit to the Member and the other Members that we will look at the 1997 agreement and the principles underlying that, and all the other agreements that we have signed since. We will commit to see if we are still following through to those concepts and principles. We are committed and we have been, myself and the Minister of ECE, have tried to be very clear that we’re working towards an assessment of how the whole transfer has been working up to now. We want to look at the different components, look at the pros, look at the cons, look at the issues that were raised by the Members here. Unfortunately we have not had the opportunity to go in front of committee to present any type of framework or any type of principles behind it.

We want to be able to ensure to the people of the Northwest Territories that our public housing programs are efficient. If there are concern, if there is issues and that’s why we’re suggesting that we

go to an independent company to look at it, because we need to ensure that we’re taking an arm’s-length look at it. If it doesn’t make sense, then we need to make sure we make the changes to adjust it. That may mean looking at transferring a portion of it. It may mean transferring all of it back. It may mean staying with status quo. We’re willing to look at that and I think that message has to be out there. We want to be able to present that review and concept to the standing committee as soon as we can.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Wow. That would be really good, because, you know, when we go back to the pre-transfer era, somehow those LHOs managed to have the clients come into the office, assess their rent, develop a relationship with them through the tenant relations officers, track the folks in their housing, maintain those units. They had that direct connection to their housing clients. Then when we transferred the money over to ECE, in that sweep came the necessity to spend an additional $1.5 million on 14 new positions for income support workers.

Now, I’ve heard today somebody told Mr. Krutko this allows there to be income support workers in more of our communities. I want to pursue that. It also allowed these income support workers to provide better and more services at the ECE offices where those clients would come to. We’ve heard that as well.

I would like to get detail on that. How many communities that did not have a resident income support worker prior to the transfer have one today?

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Some of the areas that we’ve improved

our service delivery when the transfer came into play were additions. The positions in these areas would be Yellowknife, Inuvik, Ulukhaktok, Fort Smith, Hay River, Deline, Norman Wells, Behchoko, Whati.

How many of those communities did not have a resident income support worker or workers prior to the transfer?

I do not have the detail information before me as we speak today. I can certainly provide that to the Member.

And for the record, again, could I ask the Minister of ECE to detail for us what the value added, what did we buy in terms of value for an additional $1.5 million?

Certainly I can commit today to provide that detailed information.

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Premier regarding the housing rental. It`s been a long standing issue for some of my members in the Sahtu in terms of the first time these houses were situated in the communities. The federal government made some promises over the years. It still holds true to some of the older people in terms of the guaranteed amount that was supposed to be arranged with our elderly people in housing with respect to the amount of rent that over the years has increased to this type of discussion. Some say it was in our treaties. Some say it was different interpretations. I’m asking the Premier in terms of his discussions with the federal government if the housing guarantee to aboriginal people in these units is as true as it was in the early days of housing being in the communities.

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The process we’re involved in with the federal government when it comes to agreements we sign for funding, those programs, much like the formula financing, are open on a per capita basis. There are times when we know that programs are announced, for example, aboriginal housing, and when we hear those, are our concerns that we raise with the federal government, for example, the last meeting of myself and Minister Michael McLeod and

Minister Robert C. McLeod with Minister Baird around Building Canada and potential additional housing dollars was one. When they announced aboriginal housing dollars, that usually means reserves and we don’t get that funding. So the agreements we have in place now are just that, agreements for the housing program that’s open to Northerners across the Territory.

Some of the comments I heard from around the region that when the old Housing Corporation was starting to build houses in the communities, some of these lots that were in place in the communities that were promised by the government to build houses for the people, people who were moved into social housing were promised to pay a certain amount of rent. In terms of the Northwest Territories, what type of protection in terms of these types of agreements that people hold dear to their hearts when the Premier goes to discuss housing for the Northwest Territories we seem to be lumped into one category in terms of housing for the aboriginal people.