Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we can’t change the rates unless we do something different. Okay. Now, whether that means we change the rates to increase or change the rates to decrease, the reality is we have to do something different to change the rates. So, Mr. Speaker, if this analysis of this power rate review does not fully contemplate the option of moving the Power Corp into its position in line with the rest of the departments of the territorial government -- in other words, make it a full territorial department -- would the Minister commit that this is a consideration and costing that we could take on as an Assembly to figure out is this the right direction for the Corporation? Because I believe it is. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, we’d have to undertake a very in-depth process to look at are there potential efficiencies there. I believe the report that we can have discussion on with Members will highlight the comparisons of the Power Corporation with other jurisdictions of similar size and design in

the sense of diesel and hydro, some of the mix for going forward. Again, nothing stops this Assembly from taking on initiatives, whether they’re addressed in those reports or not. But simply, the fact is, let’s look at some of those things.

The Member just stated that there are some fixed things and unless we change the way we do business, those things remain. Well, the things that will remain, whether it is within a government department or the corporation as it stands, is the rate base we have and that is the customer base, the cost of delivery of service, that is our fuel, that is our hydro and natural gas and other areas. So those are the things that we have, as well as our employee structure that’s out there that is under a union. The Government of the Northwest Territories is under a union. So all of those things would have to be taken into consideration, but, ultimately, that is a decision that can be made by this Assembly. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Mr. Speaker, without looking at it in depth as to, for example, the union agreement that’s in place with the Power Corporation and how that would work with ours, that’s an issue that would have to be looked at. Do the structures at headquarters match the structures of a department? That would have to be looked at. But we’ve not done that type of work. The review of the energy rates regulations piece did not specifically address the corporate structure in that sense. It talked about a number of structures within the Power Corporation, the delivery. The issue of the PUB, again, that’s under its own legislation. We would have to look at the interaction, if there should

be a PUB or not and what role that would be or would the Government of the Northwest Territories play that role as well. There would be substantive change then being looked at and we would have to make sure that if we were going to go down that path, we are prepared to follow it through and make sure we did it right.

Right now, and just for the record and for our employees out there, that hasn’t been discussed at any table at this point, but ultimately, as I said, that is the authority of this Legislative Assembly, to look at those and direct that work being undertaken in that area. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, when you look at Crown corporations that are owned by government, there is always some good reasons why that activity is carried on at arm’s length from the government. In the example of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, it had to do with that corporation’s ability to receive money from federal programming and so on. There were good reasons that you could articulate why it needed to be arm’s length from the government. Is there any such reasons why NTPC needs to be a Crown corporation at arm’s length from the control and supervision of this government? Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I go back to the earlier Member’s statement that Mrs. Groenewegen had made earlier about when the Power Corp first came in, it used to be the Northern Canada Power Corporation. Then we took it over, our specific area within the Northwest Territories. At that time, the legislation was adopted and put in place and, in a sense, kept it at its level of a corporate structure. Since then there’s been little change, in fact, over the 22 years around that corporate structure. That is probably one of the things that would have to be looked at if we were to do any work in that area. Thank you.

I’m very familiar with that time. I was on the original board of directors of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation before NCPC had even moved from Edmonton to Hay River. So I’m very familiar with the thinking at the time, and it was considered a great gain for the GNWT to acquire this asset. But, you know, times have kind of changed a bit now. Now we are looking at costs that are really quite a burden to the people, and we are quite consumed, as legislators, about the cost of living. I think it is time to re-examine the model that we have in place. Because if there is anything about that model that adds more costs, which then need to be passed on to the consumers, I think we owe it to the consumers to at least consider that. Would the Premier agree to that undertaking and that exercise? Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, the whole process, as the Member pointed out earlier, between ourselves as a stakeholder or as the

shareholder, the Power Corporation itself, our hydro entity, there are a number of partnerships out there now around our hydro with First Nations, as well, and aboriginal governments. There are a number of factors that would have to be considered. Again, that is the PUB side of things that is on another piece of legislation. When we talk about general rate applications that go out around delivering power across the Northwest Territories, there is promise made that that is fairly intensive, and across the exercise we go through if there are any changes to be made, we would have to look at a number of things in this area. As we go through the steps of reviewing the energy report that came back and our response that we are preparing to make, that Members would be included in that process. As we go through the Power Corporation review specific with Members, that is another avenue and opportunity we can look at that. If this Assembly and the Members here are willing to take a look at and put some resources towards that, that is something that I would sit down with Members to hear just how much energy we should put towards that and what level of work and detail is required. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have often felt kind of conflicted on this whole issue of NTPC, because I am very interested about, and concerned about, the well-being and the valuable contribution of the folks at head office, being as most of them are either my constituents or Mr. Speaker’s constituents. At the same time, I am listening to the people who represent communities where people are literally burdened under the weight of the cost of this service. We have heard from the NTPC Review Panel. There isn’t a whole lot we can do to change the way things are operated at headquarters that would translate into any significant savings for those people. That is why I am sort of stepping back from that and looking more at the big picture and the structure. I believe it would be an exercise at least worth looking at changing the mandate, having the Power Corporation controlled, I suppose, like any department by a deputy minister. I would assume and hope that... I can’t imagine that the GNWT UNW wages would be any lower than those that are earned at the Power Corporation. I don’t think it would be a significant difference. I don’t see there being any downside of at least looking at this. I am saying all of this because I don’t want there to be fear again into the folks who work at the Power Corporation, but I know they too are interested in getting as affordable power to the communities as possible.

I would like to ask the Premier what process would he suggest for undertaking looking at this particular very specific option. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I think there are a couple of avenues. One, first of all, I would agree with the Member about our staff complement out there delivering the power that residents use today and in the future. They are very dedicated and keep on trying to provide the best service in a challenging environment. In fact, I think the record shows on outages and so on that we actually rank very well compared to some of the jurisdictions.

The issue of where this might be able to go, again I think there are a couple of avenues, as we talked with Members around our response to the energy rate regulation piece, around some of the cost structures and the delivery side as well as the NTPC review itself as we sit down and look at our response as we go forward on that would provide a couple of avenues. Then we can go forward on that basis. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Keeping on the same theme, I guess, it is so important that we leave no stone unturned when it comes to looking at power rates in the Northwest Territories and the future of those rates. I wanted to maybe shift gears a little bit and ask the Premier some questions as it relates to discussions with ATCO. I am of the understanding that while the Premier and the Finance Minister were in Copenhagen, some discussions took place with Nancy Southern of ATCO. They were lengthy discussions. I am sure they weren’t just talking about the weather, Mr. Speaker. I want to ask the Premier what was the nature of the discussions that he and Mr. Miltenberger had with Nancy Southern. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The discussions with the representative of ATCO were ones around what we might be able to do when it comes to projects, specific initiatives in trying to move further along our interest as a government in expanding and delivering on increased hydro across the Northwest Territories. Minister Miltenberger did give an opportunity as to that discussion that happened at that time. We also did discuss the event of Copenhagen and climate change as well. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier if the Government of the Northwest Territories, the NWT Power Corporation or anybody associated with Cabinet is currently working on any partnerships with ATCO NUL or ATCO Electric. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, of course everyone is familiar with the ATCO proposal that we received that we have had some very high level permanent discussions to see if, in fact, it was a starting position or not. That is the one that is sitting there right now. There hasn’t been a whole lot of work done on that piece. The last set of discussions Mr. Miltenberger was involved with was around the interest that a potential partner might have in expanding our hydro system here in the Northwest Territories. There have not been active discussions on the actual partnership. There have been discussions about what it would take to get into a serious discussion. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I guess one of the fears I have is the government will get so far into negotiations and discussing partnership opportunities or arrangements with any company. I just want some assurances that before any decision is made on a partnership or venturing too far down that road, Cabinet and the Premier will come back to the Legislative Assembly and we can at least have a good debate and discussion on the merits of any such partnerships.

Mr. Speaker, I would be the first to say, again, no stone should be left unturned. We need to be looking at everything. We need to put everything on the table, Mr. Speaker. We also need to get to work on the unsolicited proposal, that we received from ATCO, fully vetted and out there. I think it is all potentially part of a solution here in the Northwest Territories for the high power rates that we are paying. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, if we go back to that day of a fall session well over a year ago when I believe it was a theme day on the cost of energy in the Northwest Territories, there were statements and questions about the cost, delivery, structure and privatization. Talks came out or reported that that could be an initiative. From those talks, we started to look at a number of initiatives. Those are all before Members. We brought back to the table around that and that is the energy rate regulation review piece. We went to committee. We are working with committee on that response; the Power Corporation review itself around the committee and we will sit down with committee with that report. I brought forward the ATCO proposal that we received and informed Members and the Territories of that. That is sitting there and I would say very early preliminary discussions.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, we are prepared, once we start moving along, like the energy rates regulation piece, like the Power Corporation piece, and once we start to engage potentially with the ATCO piece on the partnership of delivery in the Northwest Territories, we would also inform Members of that work. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, I just wanted to maybe get some assurances from the Premier that any potential partnership that the Government of the Northwest Territories is looking at entering into will come back to the House and be done through legislation, Mr. Speaker. I just want to get some assurances on that. Thank you.