This is page numbers 4411 - 4462 of the Hansard for the 16th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was project.

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Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

I would like to thank the deputy for that answer. I guess the frustration was that taxpayers from throughout the North don’t want to continue to see themselves paying out of their pocket for errors and, for lack of a better word, the situation that we are currently in with the Dehcho Bridge Project. People are still out there; they are absolutely convinced that this cost will not stop here and will be increasing. I don’t know how much assurance that the Minister or the deputy or the Transportation Minister can give us. Yes, we are 50 percent done and with this amended budget we can complete the project on a timely and on budget scenario. So just with that, Mr. Chairman, can the Minister give us that assurance that we won’t be sitting here in a few months from now, six months from now, deliberating a situation where our backs are against the wall, where we have to continue expending public funds and, therefore, taxpayers money on this infrastructure? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

February 22nd, 2010

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know it is the fond hope from all of us that we don’t have to go this process again. We

are going to make every conceivable effort to make sure we hit the targets, but we are not in the position to offer an ultimate guarantee. But we will be briefing Members on an ongoing basis here going forward as we work our way forward through these current challenges until we get this project stabilized and then going forward to conclusion. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Next on my list I have Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d like to thank the department for the Deh Cho Bridge Project Estimate Summary. I find it kind of interesting that the issue doesn’t largely seem to be one of a construction nature. It looks like the actual construction costs have only increased by about 3.7 percent as the estimates that we’re currently receiving from the department from the estimates that were originally budgeted in May of 2009 compared to the estimates from the GNWT today that takes us to the end of the project. That’s only about a 3.7 percent increase. That’s actually pretty good.

I think our issues further down the page there are that there’s a substantial increase of the management and interest costs. I guess mostly in those areas and even the contingency’s gone down a bit. But it looks like the construction management and corporate management and interest costs are the majority of the request here. It’s almost $11 million of the request for $15 million. Almost $11 million of it is just management. This actually gives me a little more comfort to know that the construction costs have a little bit of control here. If it’s only estimated to be higher than what the original budget was from May 2009 by 3.75 percent, approximately, then it’s actually not too bad.

Maybe the issue here is not what’s happening over the waters of the Mackenzie but maybe more or less the management of the project seems to be a little bit out of control here. But to know that’s where the cost is, also recognizing that that type of cost is also a lot easier to control than had the cost been more unpredictable with the construction portion of the project. I am offering that as maybe something that would make it easier for the government to manage or control costs, because the majority of the costs seem to be in management.

It’s difficult to control interest costs, no doubt. I don’t know why the interest cost has gone so high from the original estimates. It’s almost $3 million and just change in interest costs. I’m not sure why that occurred if the money was advanced at a certain date and the schedule for payback is happening, or it’s scheduled to happen in the future, then I don’t know why the big shift in interest. Maybe I will ask that question of why the interest cost. I think the corporate management, construction management

is probably self-explanatory, but I’ll ask on the interest costs.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Neudorf.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Russ Neudorf

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The reason the interest costs are going up is because it takes an extra year of construction. So we had planned on three years’ worth of interest and now it’s going to take four years. But that four years is also at the end when the majority or a lot of the expenditures have been made already. So as the funding is actually in the construction account right now, we are paying interest to the lenders but we’re also making interest on the money. So the net amount at present isn’t that big. But as we have less and less money in the construction account to gain interest, the net effect is increasing.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

I’m good with that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next on my list is Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple of questions. Have the Ministers had an analysis of reducing the costs in my region by having a bridge here? In light of what we’re going to increase the budget for the bridge, I think the Minister of Transportation said it has a negative effect on the cost of living to reduce the cost of living. I know at one time it made sense, but now we’re adding additional dollars to it. Is this still the case to reduce the cost in the Sahtu and in Behchoko or Fort Providence or even Yellowknife?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Neudorf.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Russ Neudorf

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The information that I talked about before where the benefits of the bridge were $7 a tonne and the costs were $6 a tonne, that’s relevant to any traffic or freight that moves across the bridge and comes into Yellowknife. That would include the freight that would be moving forward into Sahtu communities, as the Member has asked. So it would realize that slight net benefit.

In terms of the total benefits, total costs, if you add up what all the benefits and what all the costs are and take it from a high level perspective, then that’s where the negative $50 million number has come up before. That’s essentially the subsidy amount that the GNWT has provided to the project.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Neudorf. Anything further, Mr. Yakeleya?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you. Is there a possibility of getting the latest explanation that the Minister gave us on paper for my reading and reviewing?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That information is available on the website for the Member’s ease of reference.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

I will look at it and see if it eases my reference here. Okay. I have to read this before I have other questions I can speak later on to. That will be it for me.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Next on my list I have Mr. Ramsay.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One thing just picking up on Mr. Yakeleya’s question is that the tolls are indexed every year. The government doesn’t often like to say that. But the tolls are indexed as well as the $2 million is indexed. Everything is indexed in this project for 35 years. I just wanted to put that out there.

One other thing I wanted to touch on is next Thursday is coming pretty quick. Members are going to go back to their constituencies and Cabinet is going to do what Cabinet does, and that’s make decisions. I want to know how Cabinet plans on keeping Regular Members in the loop when it comes to this project, and what exactly is happening with this project and how that reporting’s going to take place when Members do go their separate ways. How are we going to be kept in the loop?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There are a number of ways. We’ll ensure that is done. We can do it by e-mail. We can do it, keeping in mind what he situation may be, to try to set up a conference call. But probably the fastest way would be to e-mail and if there’s a need to get more collaborative feedback, then we can look at some type of hook-up on a conference call.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Now that the project has, like I said, for all intents and purposes, become a Government of the Northwest Territories project, I think the reporting on that project should be more readily available, let’s say, than it has been in the past. We should know on a day-to-day basis what’s happening with that project. I’m not saying I want to know on a day-to-day basis, but at least if Cabinet could keep Regular Members updated once a month or quarterly, even, as the project moves forward, I think that would be good. It’s always better to hear from our Cabinet colleagues than from the guy or woman on the street. So I’d appreciate that. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We’ll of course commit to keeping the Members as fully apprised as we can going forward and we’re also working on improving our public communication so we can address some of the concerns that are out there with the facts and not rely on other

information, but give everybody the best information that’s the most current and available. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Just another thing, you know, a lot of Members have talked about it and I’ve talked about it in the past, but the Government of the Northwest Territories, the Department of Transportation has obviously had to incur some costs. I mean, we’ve got a couple of senior staff here that are on the project management team. You know, I’m sure we’ve paid for some of the design review work that’s been ongoing. How are we accounting for that? Is that not incorporated in the budget of the bridge or should it be incorporated in that? You know, if we can get some of the costs back as the Minister has mentioned, this $15 million over time I suppose we could recoup some of that back. Why don’t we charge whatever the Department of Transportation is incurring for costs back to the project so we can recoup that cost, Mr. Chairman? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Bob Bromley

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Neudorf.