Madam Chair, all I can say at this point is we will be putting in the sewage tank. Whatever happened this past summer or winter, it wouldn’t have made a difference because we are still waiting for a sewage lagoon to be completed. Even though it was completed this summer, it will be just sitting there.

We will be going forward with this in the wintertime so we can be ready for summer when the completion of the sewage lagoon is completed by the community. We did commit and we are looking forward to having our staff going into the community and completing that project in due time. Mahsi, Madam Chair.

It would have made a difference this year if they had sewage tanks going into the Colville Lake School. I am telling you right now, if the Minister and staff went to Colville Lake, they have the sewer truck there. It is pumping out sewer in the bed and breakfast and pumping out of the band office and it is being used. For the Minister’s statement that it wouldn’t matter, I think that is a real kind of attitude to say to our community in Colville Lake it wouldn’t matter. It would have mattered, because the sewer truck now is being used in Colville Lake. They have a garage and they are using it. They are using it in the bed and breakfast. It would have made a big difference to the kids in Colville Lake to have running water in their school for those 53 kids.

You go there and look outside in the schoolyard and you will see four or five honey buckets outside with honey bags out there. You go to the health centre and it’s the same thing there too.

I think this government needs to wake up and say we are going to do something and work with the community. The community wants to work. I am hoping that DPW would be more practical, more looking at the reality of Colville Lake and when it does its planning on bringing small and large capital projects in, that the knowledge and the expertise in the community do work and do help. We always can’t rely on the people who have gone to university and who are down south and trying to figure out how to work things in our small communities. That’s what I want to say to the Minister.

It’s frustrating when you have to now go back to Colville Lake and see the kids and the families and they say, well, what happened? Well, sorry. We will wait another year because you don’t have a proper sewage lagoon. They’re going to laugh, because they are already using that sewer lagoon. Thank you.

Again all I can say is that it is going to be happening in the wintertime. There is a brand new water truck and sewage truck to be delivered on this year’s winter road, 2012. That is the information we are getting from MACA. We work closely with MACA as well. The sewage tank is currently being built, ready for delivery on the winter road. That is happening. PWS is following through with that, definitely. Mahsi.

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Next I have Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to get on the record that, as I said in committee, I respect the concerns that Mr. Bromley has been raising regarding the display case or a space for artisans to sell their works and wares, but the intent is there and I want to stress that. But the reality here is I disagree under the principle of we can’t be giving free space away. There is a rental market in the downtown that would be of significant concern if we were giving space away to some groups and not the next, and the next NGO will be phoning me or another MLA, asking if they could have free space. We get into quite a complicated process here where how do we meet everyone’s needs. The sad thing is sometimes it is a lot easier to just say no up front, rather than try to figure out how to come up with a policy on that.

Just to carry it a little further, it wouldn’t be more than 150 or 250 feet away that we have a business called Northern Images. I can assure you they would be quite upset if the GNWT was giving away space to artisans to sell their wares. We have businesses that are struggling to stay ahead of the game in the sense of selling stuff, making sure that they cover their own rent, and the costs, and pay their tax and city taxes and whatnot. It would seem horribly insulting to them, those who have made those types of commitments to be in business in the downtown and we turn around and give space away.

Now, that said, I said without spending a whole lot of time or thought or energy into the problem, I can appreciate that if we want to figure out how to display some artisans’ work within the territorial buildings, I have no particular issue with that. If anything, it may be a good idea to use an opportunity to showcase some work being done. But how can that be done in a way that is constructive but not biting into the market of people trying to sell it? I’m not sure we are here to discuss that or decide those types of issues today, but I would certainly be in support if there was a display case that showed work.

But back to the point of if you start selling work in government buildings, then there is a responsibility brought in there and a significant concern. The spirit and intent is a good one. I will again underscore that. We have to keep in mind that the private sector itself doesn’t like this building to begin with and that is a whole other issue. Now there is an intent to give free space away, which will cause concern. I don’t have to go far to the constituency to find people who would have great objections.

Just to tie it all together, as I have said before, and even at the arts forum I had mentioned to the artisans there – and it may not have been the most popular suggestion but I would like to think that it was one of the most honest ones – the fact that the

artisans have to take a stake into the solution and getting free space is not feasible here in Yellowknife. It is a challenge. Once we start giving it away to some groups, we have to start giving it away to more. It’s a real challenge. They have to take an economic stake into the solution of this problem.

I coined it towards one of the four legs or pillars to any problem. The territorial government needs to be part of the solution. The City of Yellowknife needs to be part of the solution if it’s done here. The federal government, through Heritage Canada, needs to be part of the solution, but by no means or any less the artisans need to be part of the solution.

I know we’re here to discuss the capital plan, and in stressing that, I don’t think the GNWT making free space available in this particular building helps them. It actually enables them to demand more free space and I think it’s a mistake. I think it’s important to put that on the record here.

Lastly, I should say it this way, the artisans need an introduction to space that’s available. I’d be more than happy to take them down to the malls – they have a lot of empty space – and talk to them there. I’ve put that out there for consideration as well.

A little direct question is Public Works, but other than the fact that I needed to put it officially on record that I oppose that in this forum. So if it comes back in another forum, maybe we’ll discuss it under a policy under Public Works. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. I don’t hear any question there. Did you want to respond to that, Mr. Lafferty?

Mahsi, Madam Chair. We’re not talking about giving away free spaces. This is an area that we know there are a lot of NGOs out there, not only that, but other organizations, private sector and there are different buildings where there are vacancies. So what I stated was that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment does have some options to work with within the community, and when Mr. Bromley raised that issue that was just one area where we are exploring different discussions. I’m not saying that it’s going to happen; it’s just that discussion has been ongoing. So those are just some of the areas that I’ve been talking about. Mahsi.

But, like anything, silence is assent and if I don’t express that concern under the capital process right now, then it could be seen as one perspective is the one to go with. So it’s important to get that out there now and I assure you and assert to the Assembly that we have disparities, whether they’re daycare spaces, some free within the GNWT institutions in some areas and some in other places in other communities where we have to charge full market rent and we

have a lot of challenges on how to balance that particular one. I mean, I don’t want us bringing in another problem that’s… You know, how do we balance?

This is the only opportunity I have to speak to this and someone has to provide a different perspective. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Moving on, next on the list I have Ms. Bisaro.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just have a couple of comments at the outset. I want to state my unreserved approval for a focus on deferred maintenance. I know PWS is the department that pretty much has the Deferred Maintenance Program and we’ve certainly expanded that program over the last several years. I think it’s very definitely the way to go and I certainly support the focus that we’ve put on deferred maintenance in all of our areas.

I do wish to speak to the suggestion by Mr. Bromley about providing arts space in new GNWT buildings. I don’t believe his suggestion was earmarked specifically for this particular Yellowknife building and I guess what I would like to say is that I think there’s a huge opportunity for us to encourage arts.

Any number of times we will hear that arts is part of our economic development as tourism. Arts tourism is certainly an area in which we can expand where we can develop our community. I would like to see, as opposed to simply referring this issue to the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, I think this is an issue which ought to be looked at by Cabinet in terms of developing a policy. I’m not thinking about a retail space.

I know Mr. Hawkins was referencing, I think, free space for retail. That’s not, I think, what we need. I think what we need is a space where artists can develop, where artists certainly can display works and even if it happens to be that 1 percent of the space in the building is for artists to display their work, not for sale but simply to display them so that tourists come into any community, they want to see what local artists have to show them. If there is no space where they can be displayed, then people have no idea what is available.

So I’d like to ask the Minister if he would consider expanding his view of this particular issue and look at developing a policy that would consider, and there would then be some clear definition of what we mean by art space. At the moment it’s pretty much up to each individual’s interpretation, but if we can develop a policy, then that would be something where it would apply to all newly built buildings in the GNWT, whether it be 1 percent or 10 percent or 100 percent, but there is a statement that we will provide space for the arts and this policy would determine what kind of space that would be.

To Mr. Hawkins’ statement that we’re not going to get free space given away, well, I think the artist-run community centre happened to have free space for a number of months and there are opportunities for organizations, through philanthropy, to be given a space where they can do things, like, for their organization. They certainly had meetings there, they displayed works there, they certainly had events there, any number of events and I think it was a real boost, a real shot in the arm for the arts community not just in Yellowknife but throughout the Territories. Because any artists that came from any other community came through the artist-run community centre and got some sort of a boost from it, even just artists being able to interact from one person to another.

So I would like to ask the Minister again – I’m rambling on here a bit – if he would consider expanding this particular idea, taking it to Cabinet for the development of a policy that would apply to all newly built GNWT buildings in the future. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. We’ll go to Minister Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chair. When we talk about arts we can talk about, I guess, various artists in the Northwest Territories displaying their arts and their work, their piece of work. We do have, in some government buildings but not all government buildings, PWS I’m not sure if we have an arts display in the actual building itself, but we do have in the ECE building. I think different buildings have their own displays. Again, this is a matter that needs discussion in the Executive branch as well.

As I stated before, although it’s a separate item from ECE, ECE also talked about displaying arts throughout the Northwest Territories. Those are options that we’ve just briefly been discussing. So we want to move forward on that, and that will be discussed with the Cabinet and also with the standing committee when their time comes.

This is an area that’s been brought forward before and I’ll just get Mr. Guy to just elaborate a bit more during their discussion when the actual building was going up. Mahsi.

Thank you, Minister Lafferty. Ms. Bisaro.

Mr. Guy I think had an explanation.

Mr. Guy, my apologies.

Both the response from the Minister and from Mr. Guy indicates to me that what we have is piecemealed. We don’t have an all-encompassing policy that goes across all our departments. At the moment every office, almost every department it sounds like, does their own thing and I think there’s an opportunity for us to provide a bit of an incentive, a bit of a shot in the arm and some support for arts in every one of our communities. Existing buildings aside, I think future buildings could – if we had a policy in place – provide a base for arts. I didn’t hear the Minister say that. He said the Executive would consider it. He didn’t say what the Executive would consider. I ask again if he would be willing to ask the Executive to consider a policy relative to arts space in our future buildings.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Lafferty.

Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. We are talking about the infrastructure here, about how we move forward on capital. What the Member could be referring to is, as we move forward on the business planning cycle, to produce more arts in the buildings. Those are the discussions that we can have with my Cabinet colleagues. I need to get their perspective, as well, on this particular subject. We talk about the 1 percent and how it’s going to look overall within the GNWT buildings. I can definitely bring that forward and have discussion and see what the outcome will be.

Just one last comment. I have to disagree with the Minister that we’re not talking about infrastructure, future buildings. We’re talking about the building of buildings and within the design of those buildings that we allocate space for the arts. What that space happens to be can be covered in a policy. I don’t see this as giving money to an arts group for them to run programs. This is providing physical space for them to either display their works or run programs or whatever. I do think that it fits within capital. Thank you. No question there.

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Our next line of questioning is with Mr. Bouchard.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My questions today, too, concern the general purpose office building. I’m not 100 percent agreeable to this concept. I have reviewed some of the briefings on the issue. I think we’re looking for some of the dollars that we’re saving over a longer period of time, then we could also do half a dozen things to look at what the territorial government does to save that kind of money. If we look at long term versus rewards, there are a lot of things that the territorial government does that we could eliminate costs.

One of the first questions I have for the Minister is concerning public consultation with some of the lessors that we have right now. Has there been any public consultation in the process of this building?

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. I’ll go to Mr. Guy answer that.