I call the Committee of the Whole to order. We have one item before the committee today. What is the wish of the committee? Mr. Menicoche.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
In the Legislative Assembly on October 31st, 2012. See this topic in context.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh
Thank you, Madam Chair. The committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 84-17(3), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2012-2013.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
I will call Committee of the Whole back to order. The item before us today is Tabled Document 84-17(3), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2012-2013. I would like to ask Minister Miltenberger if he has opening comments.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Yes, Madam Chair. I am here to present Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2012-2013.
This document outlines an increase of $20.928 million in operations expenditures for the 2012-2013 fiscal year. The major items included in the supplementary estimates are:
• $13.8 million to report two special warrants
approved on July 31, 2012, and August 17, 2012, for the Department of Environment and Natural Resources for the increased costs being incurred due to the severe forest fire season in 2012;
• $4.4 million to report a special warrant approved
on August 17, 2012, for the Department of Environment and Natural Resources to fund the costs of identifying the disposing of diseased bison in the Mackenzie Bison Sanctuary;
• $4.1 million for the additional cost resulting from
the new Collective Agreement between the Union of Northern Workers and the Government of the Northwest Territories;
• $3.9 million for the Department of Public Works
to fund the costs associated with the demolition of Sir Alexander Mackenzie and Samuel Hearne schools in Inuvik.
I am prepared to review the details of the supplementary estimates document, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Would you like to bring witnesses into the Chamber?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, could you please escort the witnesses to the table?
For the record, Mr. Miltenberger, could you please introduce your witnesses?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have with me the deputy minister of Finance, Mr. Aumond; and the assistant deputy minister of Finance and deputy secretary to the FMB, Sandy Kalgutkar.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. General comments from Members on the operations expenditures. Any general comments? Detail?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. Please turn in your document to page 3. Legislative Assembly, operations expenditures, Office of the Clerk, not previously authorized, $32,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Office of the Chief Electoral Officer, not previously authorized, $3,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Legislative Assembly, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $41,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. Page 4, Executive, operations expenditures, directorate, not previously authorized, $21,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. Moving onto page 5, Human Resources, operations expenditures, directorate, not previously authorized, $7,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Total department, Human Resources, operations expenditures, not previously authorized, $198,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. Page 6, the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, operations expenditures, corporate management, not previously authorized, $15,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Total Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, operations expenditures, $52,000, not previously authorized.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. Department of Finance, operations expenditures, deputy minister’s office, not previously authorized, $875,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Fiscal policy, not previously authorized, $711,000. Mr. Bromley and then Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Bromley.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe this was the Housing Corporation we were on and I’m wondering if I can get an explanation of the amount planned for the NWT Energy Plan solar panel installation in Inuvik. What exactly is the Housing Corporation plan with solar panel installations? Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Aumond
Thank you, Madam Chair. That’s for $85,000 and that’s money that will be used for a nine-plex at the Bertha Allen public housing complex in Inuvik. Installation of solar panels on the roof would supply energy to the complex and operate the mechanical and electrical systems. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
Thank you. Sounds like a worthy project. I wonder, do we have any estimates of what efficiency this would gain over the normal course of events and/or do we plan to install monitoring so that we can learn valuable lessons and collect useful data on which to base future similar decisions? Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Madam Chair. The payback is estimated to be five years, and yes, with the solar technology available, when they’ve measured the technology available to measure the benefits, we’ll be looking to do that so we can learn from this investment. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe we’re also on fiscal policy. I believe that number has been read out, Madam Chair?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Actually, I’m going to call deputy minister’s office again for $875,000. Agreed?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. Fiscal policy, not previously authorized, $711,000. Mr. Dolynny.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks for clarifying. I want to zone in on the comment regarding the $700,000 line entry in this expenditure, and it reads, “To provide funding to address an increase in the cost of living tax credit expense due to a higher personal income forecast.” So I guess my first question is: What is driving the anticipated increases in personal income tax revenues? Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Kalgutkar
Thank you, Madam Chair. The forecast is this normal forecast that we get from Finance Canada, and the current projections from what Finance Canada are indicating are personal income taxes are higher than we initially projected. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
Thank you. So I guess what we’re hearing is that this is a statistical variance. Are there any other mitigating factors or forces that are driving this forecast?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Kalgutkar
Thank you. What the forecast is indicating is the amount of personal income tax fillers is likely to increase, and that means our personal income tax revenues have also corresponded to the increase as well. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
Using the second line of that bullet it says, “The net effect on government operations is nil as there will be an offsetting revenue amount.” Could we get layman’s terms as to what does that mean? Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Kalgutkar
Thank you. This is, as the Member will recall, when you go to our ‘12-13 Main Estimates budget, this is based on the change in how we account for the corporate income tax credit. The credit is now reported as an expense against the Department of Finance’s appropriation, and then the offsetting revenue is also recorded under our revenues. So there’s no net impact. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
Great, I appreciate the explanation there. So I guess the ultimate question here is: What impact does this have, or is this being incorporated into the fiscal framework and would we be anticipating an updated fiscal forecast?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Kalgutkar
Thank you. As we prepare our ‘13-14 budget, we will be updating our revenue forecasts. The next update from Finance Canada is, if I recall, in the first week of December and then we’ll see our updated fiscal framework when we
present them with our ‘13-14 budget in early January. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
Again, I appreciate the explanation. Going back to what was said just a couple of minutes ago regarding the new accounting or public accounting practices that this government and many other governments were subjected to in causing a lot of changes in the way monies are being allocated and descriptions, what would be the anticipated… Are we going to possibly see a corrective fact like this ongoing, or is this just a year where we’re going to see this type of net impact being an offset of revenue? Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Kalgutkar
Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the Member for that question. The unions are continually working with the public sector accounting board, the accounting board that drives account policy for governments. And our view to them is a lot of these changes, they’re making public accounts much more difficult for the ordinary reader to read because of these types of adjustments. We have regular dialogue with the accounting body and we are working with other governments to ensure that accounting rules are being much more clear in the future.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Fiscal policy under the Department of Finance, not previously authorized, $711,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Budget, treasury and debt management, not previously authorized, $34,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Office of the chief information officer, not previously authorized, $10,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Total department, Finance, operations expenditures, not previously authorized, $1.673 million.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, directorate, not previously authorized, $22,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Sport, recreation and youth regional operations, not previously authorized, $8,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Total Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, not previously authorized, $93,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Moving onto page 10. Public Works and Services, operations expenditures, directorate, not previously authorized, negative $3,000. Mr. Bromley.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
Thank you, Madam Chair. I wonder if I could just get an explanation. I see there are a number of transactions related to the implementation of financial shared services. I believe that this is an opportunity for increased efficiency and, ultimately, lower operations costs. This is sort of related to the previous one we had – $436,000 – where various departments have expenses listed. I wonder if I could just get an explanation.
Again, are we further ahead? Are there efficiencies and savings related to these new expenditures for shared financial services? Just a brief explanation overview would help here.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Aumond
Thank you, Madam Chair. In response to the Member’s question, the amounts of money that he sees transferring out of the various departments into financial shared services and the Department of Finance represents the amount of resources and, in some cases, people that are transferring from line departments into finance that will be undertaking the financial transaction processing on behalf of departments. The intent is to relieve program managers in the line departments from the day-to-day routine transactions such as travel claims, paying bills and
stuff like that, and standardizing that process across the GNWT into one processing place, which will be in the Department of Finance.
In terms of getting efficiencies, we hope once the processes are standardized and the routines are down, that we’ll start to see the efficiencies in the amount of time it takes to process claims and the amount of less time it takes to receive money and get bills paid. Right now we have a Financial Shared Service Centre up and running in Inuvik in the Beaufort-Delta. That’s the first centre. We have plans to undertake in Norman Wells in January and February, and then later on in the early part of the next fiscal year in the South Slave and then into headquarters is the plan. We’ll see transactions like this or transfers such as these over the next year, year and a bit. That will allow us to fully utilize the investment we’ve made in our new financial system corporately. Really what it will have us do is we’re finding now that things aren’t necessarily done the same way in every department and we hope to standardize that process, thereby making those transactions more routine, more efficient and relieving departmental managers of that duty, and letting them concentrate on managing their budgets and making use of the financial system to make better decisions in managing their budgets.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
Thanks for that explanation. It does seem logical and like a reasonable investment to me. I did, however, hear the words “we hope” and “we expect to see” and whatnot, and I would agree that that’s a reasonable expectation. I agree on the hope part. Obviously, we would hope there was some analysis done that would indicate the high probability of savings here. I expect that’s the case.
This is a complex thing to measure, but will we have some monitoring in place and an ultimate evaluation plan? I know, over the years, we’ve seen a lot of back and forth within and between departments and across departments to wrestle with this problem. I’m just hoping that we, obviously, have some form of evaluation in place to ensure we capture the lessons that are to be learned here.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Aumond
Certainly, we do have some clear objectives and we do have a matrix where we can measure the efficiencies around the transactions. Like I say, right now we only have the Beaufort-Delta office up and running, so after it’s been up and running for some time, we’ll be able to provide Members with the results of that. It will probably be a year or two years until we get the whole system up and running that we’ll be able to get the larger picture, but certainly, as the Beau-Del gets up and running and we trudge on into the Sahtu and the South Slave we’ll be able to provide the reports, after we monitor them for a while, to Members.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
Thank you, again, for those remarks from the deputy minister. That sounds reasonable to me. I know that this will take a little time to put in place, and I would think it would take even longer to do an evaluation. I just appreciate the opportunity to ask questions and make sure that that evaluation process is in place. That’s all the questions I had.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Public Works and Services, operations expenditures, directorate, not previously authorized, negative $3,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Asset management, not previously authorized, $4.088 million. Mr. Dolynny.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
Thank you, Madam Chair. As the department knows, and the Minister, I treat every capital project with the same lens and same measuring stick, and I’m doing so with this project as well.
My first question is with respect to this $3.9 million for demolition work done to the E3 school program. Could the Minister give a breakdown where exactly that $3.935 million is being used?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Aumond
Thank you, Madam Chair. Of the $3.935 million being requested, $3.3 million will be for the demolition of Samuel Hearne Secondary School, $635,000 will be used to undertake some further investigative work and prepare Sir Alexander Mackenzie School for demolition in 2013-14.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
Thank you very much. This clarifies, I think, yesterday’s other question that we had, so I’m glad we’re seeing clarity here today on that. I appreciate it very much.
If, by chance, the amount of demolition for the $3.3 million comes in under budget, what happens to that surplus of money if there is one?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Madam Chair. The money would be lapsed and returned to the government coffers.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
I would assume that there was a tracking mechanism for that money, and that may be responded to with my other question.
We know that this is the first of potentially two or more phases of demolition work to really complete the whole project of demolition. Can we get some type of idea what the scope or magnitude of the total budget for demolition or remediation is for that project?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
I guess my other question is: Has there been any other remediation or site preparation work done in previous years that have been added to the project in general, or is this the only time we have seen this type of remediation work with this project? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Other than I think it was referred to as destructive testing to find out what was actually there, that was referenced yesterday, this is the only work that has been done in terms of the demolition and remediation. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
The department indicated that there were bids or tenders that have gone out for the $3.3 million component of the first part of the money. When did this RFP close and when would we expect the beginning of such demolition?
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Aumond
Thank you, Madam Chair. The tender for this work closed just a couple of weeks ago and the contract will be awarded if this budget is approved. I would expect that the work would commence shortly. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
One final question, Madam Chair. The Minister of Finance indicated if there should be any savings in design, that money should be transferred to general coffers.
Again, my question to the department Minister is: As a Regular Member, how is one able to track such money going into such coffers? What is the mechanism, Madam Chair?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Aumond
When the Financial Management Board approved this for consideration by the Assembly, the department was also directed that should any funds be surplused, they are to be lapsed at the end of the fiscal year. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Daryl Dolynny Range Lake
I am still confused. As a Regular Member, we have the right to follow funds or capital expenditures. Should there be any surplus in a project, how is one able to track that back? We are hearing about lapsed monies. I am a bit confused, Madam Chair. How do we track these so-called savings going back to general coffers?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Madam Chair. The year-end accounting will capture all the money across government that has lapsed. One of the specific ways, if there is direction of committee, we could look at a negative supp that would specifically target any funds should they be lapsed on this project. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you, committee. Public Works and Services, operations expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $4.088 million.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Thank you. Public Works and Services, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $4.085 million.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Agreed. Thank you. Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, directorate, not previously authorized, $63,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Jane Groenewegen
Health services programs, not previously authorized, $1.212 million. Mr. Bromley.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just would like some background on this. I thought that this work had been brought back into the public service fold some time ago. There were some issues early in the 16th and there was quite a review
done. I wonder if I could get the background behind this. It seems like a substantial amount. I don’t know what the total contract is, but this is an area where, obviously, we want the highest standards. When we didn’t have them, our people suffered and our system was not working well. If I could get some background that gives some perspectives on that, thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Madam Chair. The existing base funding was $2.527 million. The contract amount was $3.069 million. There’s a shortfall of $542,000 and the cost drivers of the increased costs for dietary, housekeeping and laundry services related to the contract. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
So let’s see, it’s currently $2.5 million and we are adding a little bit more than .5, so something like a 20 percent increase here. When was the last time this was increased?
This Minister, I know, has some history and knowledge about the back and forth between public servants and contracting out these services. I wonder if he could remind me of what that has been and what our current thinking is. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
My
understanding is that this is basically an accumulated amount, that over the last number of years the costs have been absorbed within the operation. It’s no longer sustainable, hence the request that’s now before this House. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
I appreciate the Minister’s remarks. Have we done a review on whether we want these services carried out by a contract versus public employees?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Madam Chair, with your indulgence, I would ask the Minister of Health to speak to that program issue. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Madam Chair. Built into the contract is an escalation of 2.9 percent, an annual increase. I think that so far that contract has been moving along, from our understanding, between Stanton and the provider. I don’t believe we have done a review, but I could check to see if the review has been done and advise the Minister, but I don’t know if there’s been a review done recently.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
Thank you, Madam Chair. That’s all the questions I have. I appreciate the Minister’s commitment. I would look forward to any information he could provide on that.
Like I said, I believe it was done early to midterm in the 16th Assembly, if my memory is correct, which
there are no guarantees. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have a question on this item as well. It also refers to the item under community wellness and social services. In this particular one with the dietary, laundry and housekeeping contracts, we are catching up to what the actual expenditures are as opposed to what we are budgeting. This is not the first time that we have run into these kinds of requests in a supplementary appropriation. So I’d like to know from the Minister if he can tell me – we always seem to be in a catch-up situation, we always seem to be granting these requests to top up contracts or top up the expenses of contracts after the fact – is this something that is standard practice and why do we do that. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
There hasn’t been any target investment in the amount of $632,000 that’s already been approved for 2013-14 in ongoing. As we look at improving and having a process that better reflects the concerns of the Legislature, I give the Member acknowledgement of her interest in this issue both in health, but across
government, forest firefighting, for example, of making the base more reflect the reality of the operation as opposed to having to come back. As we identify these areas, that’s what we’re attempting to do going forward here. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake
Thanks to the Minister for those comments. I would like to say that I appreciate that we’re going in this direction. I think it is the right way to go.
I’ll ask the question and the Minister can confirm when we get to the section, but I’d like to know whether or not there’s an increase to the base for the Charlotte Vehus Group Home and Billy Moore Assisted Living Group Home contracts when we get to that section. It’s the same principle and my questions apply to both of those. So that’s all I have. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Mr. Chairman, when I get to that question, I will answer yes. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger, for saving the committee time. Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, health services programs, $1.212 million. Is committee agreed?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Thank you. Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, supplementary health programs, $6,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Thank you. Health and Social Services, community wellness and social services, not previously authorized, $1.385 million. Mr. Moses.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chair. If anybody remembers, this was a big issue that we brought up when the contract was actually being awarded, and it went out for tender and we had two contractors come back with bids, and we had a northern contractor and a southern contractor. There was a lot of mix-up. The northern contractor initially won the bid, then he ended up losing out because of the Business Incentive Policy that the NWT promotes and somehow the southern contractor won this bid.
What we have before us now is that this southern contractor is coming back to this government and asking for an extra $850,000 to do the programs and services that are provided. When we first saw this supp, it raised questions, obviously, right from the start.
I’m not sure if this is the usual practice of government, to start providing supps to contractors after they’ve awarded the bid. It kind of gets me wondering that we might have contractors out there who are lowballing the bid to win the contract and then when they find out the contract is awarded, then they come back to the government and we
find, possibly, excuses to give them the extra funding to run those programs when we have northern contractors up here who provide northern services, understand the northern economy, understand the buying and selling of northern products and yet we went south on this one.
I want to ask the Minister if he could explain to me how this southern contractor won the bid and yet is coming back to us, not even a year later after being awarded this contract, and asking for an extra, I noted this $850,000 for that one specific one with the Billy Moore Group Home. How much money is being put towards the Billy Moore Group Home that they’re asking for extra costs, and how that happens when we had a northern contractor who initially won the bid and possibly had a lower contract number at the same time? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Thank you, Mr. Moses. For that we’ll go to Mr. Aumond. Sorry, we’ll start with Minister Miltenberger.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With your indulgence, I’ll ask Minister Beaulieu to speak to the background issues related to this contract. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is not an increase in costs as a result of switching the contractors. The breakdown is that the Charlotte Vehus shortfall is $547,000, Billy Moore is $303,000, for a total of $850,000 for both homes. It’s a 2012-13 this year. It’s not substantially higher than any other year preceding up until 2012-13.
I’ll just run through some numbers. There was $1.422 million in 2009-10 and then $1.38 million, $1.45 million in 2012-13 and those were the other. So it’s not all of a sudden jumped up by that amount.
What’s been happening is that the authority has funded this and has put themselves into a deficit with funding both of these homes in previous years. So the Billy Moore went from $683,000, $696,210 and then this year $686,000. So there’s not a substantial jump. It is just a steady growth and sometimes it goes up, sometimes it goes down.
But what’s been happening, like I indicated, the two contractors were doing this and each year the contracts were signed and then its deficit funded, essentially, and the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority, as the House knows, goes into a deficit on an annual basis. This forms part of the deficit this year.
We’re trying to deal with the budgeting issues across the board on all health and social services
authorities. So this supplementary is $850,000 to just bring the budget up to where it should be.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake
Thanks for the explanation. If Members recall, this was a big issue for me when I was dealing with it, but speaking to the contractor that lost the award, there was a stipulation in the contract that if he hadn’t spent certain dollars in areas that he had signed during the contract, he had to give money back to the authority and he was doing that. So now we’re basing our contracts based on a deficit. That doesn’t make any sense, and if he could give a little bit more explanation how we award contracts based on our authority’s deficit. Can I get just a bit more clarity on awarding contracts based on deficit? Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe
Thank you. It’s an award, it’s an RFP process. Through the request for proposals we determine which is the best value to the authorities and it’s awarded based on that. So this deficit funding, essentially what happens is when the health authority has a contract that they have to continue to run these two homes almost like a non-discretionary funding, in essence there’s just no possible way that we could get the costs from running these two homes from approximately $2.1 million down to $1.2 million and expect to continue to run these two homes. So this money is put in for that.
As I said, previous years this formed part of the accumulated annual deficit for the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority. It had to be done and we had to continue to operate this. So it formed part of the accumulated deficit.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you. In regard to the Charlotte Vehus Home, that was Parkland services, I believe, that was running that program. For somebody to run that program for the amount of years that they have, you’d think that the contractor would bid his contracts based on previous years’ expenditures, and now they’re coming back to us for over half a million dollars. I can see maybe $100,000, but coming back for over half a million dollars to continue to run the same programs and services that they’ve done for years doesn’t make sense to me. Now we’re awarding them a contract where they’ve actually come back to us for over $300,000. Under that award, is it next year that they’re going to come back to us for half a million dollars, maybe more?
This gets back to where I’m feeling that contractors are low bidding this government to win contracts, and only coming back for supps afterwards to do the programs and services. I’m getting the same type of frustrations when this whole process went through and we did it in the House months ago, and I’m very frustrated to see this before us again, and frustrated that it comes in a bundle under a
supplementary appropriation act like this, where we have to approve everything together and this is part of that area as well.
The Minister did mention that they determine their contracts based on the best values. Is that value in dollars or value in services and programs? Can he explain what he means by value?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Thank you, Mr. Moses. Before we go to Mr. Beaulieu, we’ll allow Minister Miltenberger.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What is before the House is really to cover a base adjustment to a contract cost that has been absorbed to this point by the Beaufort health and social services system that, as the Minister has pointed out, has helped contribute to their significant deficit, which is now in the neighbourhood of over $4 million.
The contract, as the Minister pointed out, was let. The contract prices have been fairly consistent. What has reached the breaking point, similar to the discussion we just had about the Stanton and the kitchen and laundry services there, costs have been absorbed in the system and they’re no longer able over time, due to inflation and other pressures, to absorb those costs that have come forward to recognize that there’s a base adjustment required to cover off the costs so that the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority does not just continue to run up a significantly increasing deficit. That’s the financial background.
In terms of the question of value that the Member has asked, I’ll ask, once again, Mr. Chair, with your agreement, to have Minister Beaulieu speak to that.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Yes, for final comment, we’ll go to Minister Beaulieu.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to speak specifically of the RFP, it’s not only the value for money but there is an approved request for proposal indicators within the government system that Health and Social Services and the authorities follow. It’s outlined that they would receive certain points and values in certain areas such as northern employment, northern supplier, cost, management, experience of management, background, directly related business or expertise and so on. There are several categories that are rated. In this one here the two main contractors were weighed off against each other all the way down, and based on the RFP consideration, which also includes the business incentive policy considerations with you evaluate the overall RFP. Those are, generally, the considerations that are in an RFP. It’s not only cash.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. I see no other questions. Sorry. Madam Bisaro.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I’m going to try and see if I can clarify this here. I have a question to the Minister. Is this money that is being asked for for these two group homes, is that money because the contractor has asked for an increase in the contract price for this particular fiscal year, or is the money going to the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority to deal with their deficit?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The money is a target adjustment to the budget that reflects an underfunding situation for this contract that has been there for some time that has helped contribute, as the Minister of Health and Social Services pointed out, to the significant current deficit of the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority. This is recognition of that gap, that deficit in their base funding.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake
Thanks to the Minister. If I can put it another way: The contract is let for a certain amount, but the GNWT funds the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority at a lesser amount. Is that correct?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Yes, they absorb the costs that contributed to their deficit reaching the point where we need to recognize it and do this base adjustment. But it’s because they didn’t have the appropriate amount of funding in their budget to cover that cost.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake
Just one last question here. To the Minister, I would hope that if we are adding money to the base funding that we give to the health and social services authority, is it correct that we should not see this kind of a request for a supp approval in ’13-14?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Yes, as we pointed out, there has been a base adjustment, a target adjustment of $850,000 to the ’13-14 budget.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Minister mentioned a base adjustment to the programs and specifically the contractor who’s taking care of the Charlotte Vehus Home and the Billy Moore Assisted Living Group Home. Can he give me a percentage on the base adjustments of the overall contract and what were the possible final numbers or where I can find the final numbers in both contracts that were, I guess, admitted?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is not a base adjustment to the contract per se. The contract, as the Minister pointed out, has been fairly consistent in its cost. What this is, is an adjustment to the program area in the budget of the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services where they had a certain amount of money for a contract that was inadequate to the tune of $547,000, roughly, and has helped contribute to the accumulated debt of the authority. I’ll ask Minister Beaulieu to speak to the… He already mentioned it, but I’ll ask if maybe he’ll go over the cost over the last number of years for the contract. It has been consistent. What has been underfunded, as we’ve just discussed, has been the budget amount in the Beaufort-Delta’s overall budget that had money to cover this particular program area that was inadequate.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don’t have the calculations on a percentage basis; however, the amount paying out to the Charlotte Vehus Home, $1.459 million, and the total funding allocated to this line object was $912,000. It was necessary to put $547,000 into it. The change, I guess, in percentage would be moving from $912,000 up to $1,459 million.
In the Billy Moore Home the change is from total funding of $383,000 up to $686,000, for a total adjustment or increase of $303,000. We’ve never had less, this has never cost less than the total funding since what we have recorded here. Even since 2005-2006 it was higher. The cost of running these two homes was higher than what the total funding provided by the system was doing. They’ve been accumulating deficit for these two homes ever since then.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In order to maybe try to provide clarity, if I could just point out the information that we have, the existing base budget for the Charlotte Vehus was $842,000. They put out a bid for a contract that came in at $1.459 million. That contract was awarded. The amount of money they had in that program area, $842,000, a gap of $547,000 that has been recognized as a base deficiency, and we are here to seek funding. Currently, there has been an adjustment to 2013-2014. Up until now the authority has been absorbing that cost and running a deficit which is no longer sustainable. The contract amounts have been fairly consistent. This is not a case where there was a contract awarded for $842,000 and the price was subsequently recognized to be inadequate on the contractor’s part. It was just the
funding in the organization wasn’t there to cover that $1.459 million.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So the awarded contract to the Charlotte Vehus was $1.459 million and the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority was the authority running specific programs for the Charlotte Vehus Home, or was it Charlotte Vehus running those programs and Beaufort-Delta covered them up, and now that Beaufort-Delta is in debt because they were kind of supplementing the Charlotte Vehus Home when Charlotte… Can I just get that clarity?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Yes, the Member is correct; the contract was for $1.459 million. The amount of money in that program area that the Inuvik Health and Social Services had in their budget was $842,000, so a $547,000 shortfall that they have been covering off as an authority and running a deficit to do that. They’ve reached a point where it’s no longer fiscally sustainable, and as we try to adjust and have realistic budgets, this funding area, clearly, was underfunded. Hence this request and an ongoing target adjustment of this same amount for both facilities of $850,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake
I guess my next final question is: Why hadn’t the authority or department noticed this back when it started, when we first started getting our deficits and addressed it then, rather than addressing it now? Especially this year when we had this big controversy with the contracts. Why did the department not catch this ahead of time and adjust it then, instead of continuing to put this authority and government further and further in debt?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
There has been, speaking as the former Health Minister, an ongoing struggle with the authorities and deficits. Clearly, as they go through their operations items like this, program areas like this that are unfunded and the authority can no longer afford to carry that without incurring a deficit are coming to light and being identified, and we’re coming forward to clear them off. The same as we’ve done with some of the costs, if I refer back to the Stanton issue, as well, with their dietary, laundry, and those types of service areas.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Moses. Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, community wellness and social services, not previously authorized, $1.385 million.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $2.835 million.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Page 12, Justice, services to the government, Justice, operations expenditures, not previously authorized, $91,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Justice, operations expenditures, legal aid services, not previously authorized, $34,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Justice, operations expenditures, court services, not previously authorized, $50,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Justice, operations expenditures, community justice and corrections, not previously authorized, $249,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Justice, operations expenditures, services to the public, not previously authorized, $34,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Justice, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $458,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Page 13, Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, directorate and administration, not previously authorized, $52,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, education and culture, not previously authorized, $492,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, advanced education, not previously authorized, $6,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, income security, not previously authorized, $47,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $597,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Page 14, Transportation, operations expenditures, corporate services, not previously authorized, negative $52,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Transportation, operations expenditures, airports, not previously authorized, $146,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Transportation, operations expenditures, highways, not previously authorized, $95,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Transportation, operations expenditures, marine, not previously authorized, $12,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Transportation, operations expenditures, road licensing and safety, not previously authorized, $25,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Transportation, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $226,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Page 15, Industry, Tourism and Investment, operations expenditures, corporate management, not previously authorized, $1,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Industry, Tourism and Investment, operations expenditures, minerals and petroleum resources, not previously authorized, $36,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Industry, Tourism and Investment, operations expenditures, energy, not previously authorized, $439,000. Mr. Bromley.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have to question the decision against the community’s wishes for a Whati transmission line design, when I believe one of the principles of this government is to support local energy generation. I’d like to ask what the reasoning is. How does this support that principle when we know that there is, for example, a proposal for a mineral development in the area, which is currently proposed to use diesel generation of power and increase our greenhouse gas emissions, lend no support in terms of economic development and jobs and so on for people, when we could be developing local power within Whati, recognizing that it is a big hit on the capital front-line side, but we’ve been postponing this for a long time? It’s time to get on with it.
I believe Yellowknife from time to time, certainly in low-water years, has to turn to our diesel generators. It’s the same for Behchoko, also on that same power system. Now we’re proposing to add
another community and possibly even another mine site without adding to the capacity of production. A couple of things that bring this into question. How does this fit with our principles and the current demand that already frequently exceeds the current power generation?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a project that was done in discussion in consultation with the Tlicho Government as well as the community of Whati. It depends on how you want to consider the sequencing. The transmission line will allow the community of Whati to go onto hydro. We know that we’re currently looking at expansion in a number of areas for hydro. We’re just concluding the Bluefish, for example, and we’re, through the energy plan as we’ve laid out to committee, going to be talking about the broadening of the grid and the connection of the grids going forward to allow us to move hydroelectricity throughout the grid. We recognize that there is an opportunity on the Lac La Martre River for a significant amount of power. The community was looking at a much smaller scale. It ended up, after basically years of work, is the plan is to move ahead initially with a transmission line.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Industry, Tourism and Investment, operations expenditures, energy, not previously authorized, $439,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Industry, Tourism and Investment, operations expenditures, tourism and parks, not previously authorized, $26,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Industry, Tourism and Investment, operations expenditures, economic diversification and business support, not previously authorized, $72,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Industry, Tourism and Investment, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $574,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Page 16, Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, corporate management, not previously authorized, $304,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures,
environment, not previously authorized, negative $791,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, forest management, special warrants, $13.791 million. Mr. Bromley.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wondered, I know we didn’t have a record number of fires, but I understand that a number of them were close to communities and were particularly intense. I believe the information that I saw was that we fought a very small percentage of forest fires out there. I’m wondering if the Minister can say what percentage of forest fires we fought this year and what the trend is over time. My impression is that it’s going down over time, that we’re choosing to fight fewer and there might be good reasons for that, but if that’s happening and we’re still having exceptional bills, it’s something we need to be aware of and thinking about.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don’t have that breakdown. Based on my recollection, we fought, on average, a normal number of fires. What we did have was an extremely dry season, a season where lightning started a month earlier, for example, a season that extended into September. We know that in just about every region there were major fires near communities requiring the mobilization of all our resources we had available, as well as importing resources from Alberta, Alaska, and any jurisdiction that we could get resources from, because every other jurisdiction in the country was facing the same challenge. There were major fires in Inuvik, Deline, Behchoko, Fort Smith, Enterprise and I believe Sandy Lake, to name the ones that come immediately to mind. And they were fairly significant in size requiring mobilization of all our resources and for a greater length of time than we anticipated. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
October 30th, 2012
Bob Bromley Weledeh
Thanks for the comments from the Minister. I would appreciate learning if the proportion of fires that we are fighting is changing over time. I imagine that varies a little bit with how many there are, absolutely, but I would be interested in that information if possible. That’s all I had. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I wanted to ask a question here, as well, with regard to the special warrants. They are both rather large sums. They are the bulk of what we are looking at in this supplementary appropriation. The special warrants are done while the firefighting season is still on, and
it’s an estimate of what it’s going to cost to deal with all the fires and what it’s going to cost us to get to the end of the season. Now that we are at the end of the season, I wonder if the Minister could advise whether or not there is an expectation that we will fully expend the $7.2 million and the $6.951 million that we’re asking for in the summer, approved by special warrant in the summer. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The final accounting is just being concluded. There is going to be some under expenditure. The money will be identified. Of course, it’s been voted by FMB that that money is coffered. That will be fully accounted for and returned to the treasury. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake
Thanks to the Minister for that remark. I guess my second question goes to procedure or process. The Minister just advised that through FMB, the actuals would be reported. I have wondered for a while now whether or not Regular Members see actual numbers of expenditures against what was approved by special warrant. Can I ask the Minister to answer that question? Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Kalgutkar
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we could certainly do that. If the Member will recall, we actually did a negative supp in the 2011-2012 year related to forest fire suppression costs for the same reason. We approved a special warrant and then we didn’t utilize all of it and then we did a negative supp in that fiscal year. I think at that time, we did report the actual cost. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake
Thanks to Mr. Kalgutkar for that. No, I don’t remember that. Too many numbers too often, I guess. If the Minister could make available to Regular Members what’s been expended, that would be great. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, forest management, special warrants, $13.791 million.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, forest management, not previously authorized, $49,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Page 17, Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures,
wildlife, special warrants, not previously authorized, $4.451 million. Mr. Bromley.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As we heard today in the House with the Minister’s statement, severe loss, up to 50 percent of this herd, due to anthrax. This is the Mackenzie Bison Herd, one of the few herds of this threatened species, so this is a very serious loss. I’m wondering, just so that we’re learning along the way and making sure we are taking advantage of any opportunities to us, I wanted to ask, is there such thing as an inoculation program for anthrax that we might consider taking advantage of to help strengthen the herd and also help the population recovery. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
I understand, having talked to some of the biologists and such, that anthrax is a treatable condition if you capture it in time, but there’s no inoculation that I’m aware of. In cases with wild roaming herds, we are responding late in the day after we, through our aerial surveys in this case, happened to find some dead bison that turned out to have anthrax, so we were playing catch-up the whole summer trying to identify the outbreak in the animals after the outbreak had already occurred. The short answer would be, no, I don’t believe there’s an inoculation for anthrax.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
I do realize the current situation and how that works and why we’re always behind. I guess I would just encourage the Minister to – obviously prevention would be much better – stay on top of any opportunities there.
My second question is, I know it’s a learning path on how to deal with these carcasses in an effective way. People, I think, have been amazed at the degree of this infection, this epidemic, and how it’s spread over quite a large area. Although, I guess, it was pretty defined in some areas as well. But, obviously, 50 percent of the herd; that says something.
In terms of the treatment of the carcasses, both in terms of costs which we’re dealing with today, and in terms of effectiveness which is an issue with respect to the spreading of the disease directly related to our costs, what have we learned this year, and will we be able to be more cost effective in the future as a result of our lessons this year?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Michael Miltenberger Thebacha
In my discussions with one of our very skilled veterinarians that we have in the Department of Environment and Natural Resources when I was on-site doing a tour, it was pointed out to me that on almost every site they were tracking the type of fuel mixtures that they used. They tried some with dry wood and green wood and no coal, some with coal, some with coal and green wood. They tried just tarping some to see how natural decomposition would work in the heat. They were going to go back
in the fall and test all the burn sites with all these carefully identified and catalogued burn sites to check the spore count to see the degree of success in eliminating the anthrax spores, and the lower the number, of course, the better.
We’ve had some discussion, as well, and some suggestions from the folks on the ground that work, really, like Trojans, in the incredible heat of summer disposing of the carcasses, suggestions similar to the suggestion you made, Mr. Chairman, for future outbreaks, coming up with a better way to dispose of carcasses that would see us possibly coming up with basically a big lid that you could put over a carcass once it’s burning, to capture all the heat and have improved incineration of the carcass and destruction of the anthrax spores. We’re looking at that as well.
From what I understand, as well, talking to the veterinarian, that this is a scientific issue of great concern across the land, so there’s going to be papers written on this. There will be a comparison with other scientists, other jurisdictions as they track what they do. This is an evolving science.
My final comment would be, I was told that in the old days they used to think it was best to dig a pit, put the animals in and dump in quick lime and that would dispose of the carcasses. Then they found out over time that in fact the spores thrive on the calcium and the quick lime ingredients. They went back to check some of these other sites where they had done that and there were literally cauldrons of anthrax spores as opposed to a site with no spores left. We’ve learned a lot from that case and we’re going to learn a lot from this one as well. Thank you.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bob Bromley Weledeh
That’s all I had. One last request, I guess. I want to thank the Minister for those comments, once again, and just ask if he would bring forward a report, a briefing on lessons learned, say by this spring or winter session, and how we’re better prepared to handle things when the next outbreak occurs. Mahsi.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, wildlife, special warrants, $4.451 million.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, wildlife, not previously authorized, $172,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, land and water, not previously authorized, $21,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, total department, special warrants, $18.242 million.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Environment and Natural Resources, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, negative $245,000.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
The Chair Daryl Dolynny
Does committee agree that consideration of Tabled Document 84-17(3), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2012-2013, is concluded?
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Some Hon. Members
Agreed.
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters