This is page numbers 3193 – 3228 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 4th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was wildlife.

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Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Madam Chair. At the outset, Madam Chair, I want to, as other Members have indicated, express my appreciation for the work that’s gone into this act but also for the previous act, which came through at the end of the 16th Assembly.

This act has been many years in the making and many people have worked on it. In my mind, it’s unfortunate that this act has been as divisive as it has been. It has pitted Northern residents against Northern residents. That’s been the unfortunate part of the act for me.

However, on the positive side, there has been a huge amount of cooperation amongst groups, organizations, staff, MLAs, various and sundry groups, and that cooperation has led to a better act today than what we had two years ago.

I do have some concerns, though, with a number of provisions in the act. I believe – and I don’t think the act states it firmly enough – that wildlife is a resource that belongs to all NWT residents and that it belongs to all NWT residents equally.

I am concerned in terms of the focus, some of the focus, a lot of the focus in the act on rights and so on. I want to read something that I stated two years ago when this act came forward and didn’t then go

through third reading and has been amended quite a bit since then. At that time I said, “There’s far too big a focus on rights that are already covered in other legislation and agreements. This should be a management act, but it goes beyond that with the clauses that focus on rights. On the other hand, there’s a noticeable lack of definition and description of the rights for non-Aboriginal residents. The act should recognize that non-Aboriginal residents deserve the same access to wildlife as our Aboriginal residents.” I still believe that. My mind has not changed at all in that regard.

I think a number of Members have spoken about rights of Aboriginals and I will never stand in the way and say that they do not have special rights, but in my mind, special rights do not mean exclusive rights. I don’t understand why we can’t say these rights are guaranteed for these people. They’re not guaranteed for this group of people, but that doesn’t mean that the second group of people can’t access wildlife as the first group does. That’s where I find this act fails a bit.

I have concerns – and some of these amendments will come forward later – in terms of the training that’s required, according to the act or according to the regulations, however it’s determined, with the harvest reporting. In terms of conservation, I think we are doing a big disservice if we don’t require harvest reporting from everybody. I think there’s way too much left to regulations and it’s a major concern for me.

Lastly, in terms of the management council, it doesn’t include non-Aboriginal hunters. Again, I go back to my statement that I believe the wildlife resource belongs to all Northerners and I think all Northerners should have a hand in managing that resource.

So I will have some comments when it comes to specific clauses, Madam Chair. That’s it for now. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Any further general comments? Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. I also would like to join my colleagues in saying that a massive amount of work has been done towards this legislation and I would like to compliment the Minister and his staff on their efforts and attempts to deal with and wrestle with, really, the considerable shortcomings of past work. I’d also like to acknowledge our chair and colleagues on the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure which have also had many prolonged discussions and fruitful consultations with people across the Northwest Territories. Thanks to all of those. Those have been real and meaningful conversations because wildlife is of such critical importance to the people of the Northwest Territories.

Wildlife are a form of life which all of us understand are representative of the natural world and our dependence on it and our relationship with it. We all come from the natural world, as I have noted before, and we will all return there. We could say we have a molecular connection to wildlife that is perhaps even closer than other parts of our ecosystem, all which are crucial in providing the ecological services we depend on. I think we’re basically born with this knowledge as creatures of the natural world. As a result, it is no surprise that looking after and using wildlife is so critical to people and even an emotional issue for many.

I would like to quote from the last time I spoke to this bill, as well, where I said, “We as a government have an opportunity and responsibility to respond to our residents in the responsible management of such an esteemed public resource as our wildlife and their habitat. In reviewing the bill, I look for recognition that this is a public resource, I look for acknowledgement of special Aboriginal and treaty rights, I look for inclusiveness in management and I look for evidence of full consultation with all our residents. Finally, while fully accounting for the special Aboriginal and treaty rights provided by law, I expect to see a commitment to acknowledging all people’s interest in using wildlife and to maximizing their opportunity within the bounds of conservation.” That stands true today, as I look over the current bill before us. Because of treaties and land claims, there is not an equal opportunity to use wildlife for all residents. Special rights are preserved for those with Aboriginal and treaty rights. These are not available to others. This is a potentially divisive issue, but in my work as a wildlife biologist in a past life, working on the land with Aboriginal people and non-Aboriginal people, I have seen the potential that can be achieved when, as the elders say, we all work together, this potential divisiveness disappears. Unfortunately, although this bill recognizes the overriding precedence of land claims legislation, it does not serve the purpose of bringing all people together in the management of this public resource. Instead, it is divisive and does not ensure a single tent under which we would gather annually for a full discussion. The collaboration that Art was looking for remains incomplete.

There are no provisions to ensure that decisions made by those with authority are made in an open and transparent manner. While this doesn’t mean it won’t happen, to me this is not something that should be left to chance. We need to provide a clear format within which all Northerners can shine.

Much of what should be in the act, actual wildlife management, is left to regulations or completely unaddressed. In contrast, much of what is already law and should be addressed in regulations is laboriously and confusingly dwelled upon in excessive, painful detail in the act. Major decisions

and mechanisms for dealing with issues remain unresolved, again left to regulations and their development.

The public and Members demand a clear and public commitment for meaningful involvement in the development of these regulations, but this is a vulnerable commitment as Ministers can change such commitments that have no legal substance. It is not right that the public should be left in this position.

The absence of draft regulations before dealing with this bill makes it difficult to understand the full implications of the legislation. Again, we’re being asked to pass this law blindly, then go to a lottery later to find out what it means in translation into regulations.

Because of its unnecessary length and tangled forest of detail, the public is left with a confusing and opaque situation that, once passed, will only be resolved by a massive public information campaign, with clear and transparent maps and information on who can hunt, what, where and when, with what permits and under which authority. I do not envy the hunters’ dilemma whether he be one with Aboriginal treaty rights or not, he or she.

There was a somewhat improved attempt to consult the 50 percent of our residents without Aboriginal and treaty rights. I want to fully acknowledge that. That hadn’t been done in the past. It was a very shallow, if any, effort in the past and I’d say this time there was a very specific effort. But unfortunately, according to all reports, there was very little weight given to their input. That is obviously problematic. So that, again, makes this a somewhat hollow achievement. Nevertheless, to me it’s a fundamental step in the right direction and I want to thank the Minister for that action. Obviously, were this only true in the act, I’d be much happier.

As the MLA for Weledeh, it is of concern that the Yellowknives Dene First Nation have, at a very high level, decided not to participate in the development of this legislation and they do not support it. Also, I’ve been contacted by other constituent groups that oppose this legislation. These are obviously of concern and indicate, perhaps what other colleagues have already said, that this is a very challenging piece of legislation. It’s very difficult to please everybody here.

I want to acknowledge that some changes have been made and my quote from my earlier comments, the acknowledgement of public resource, there has been an attempt. Although the preamble is a non-legal part of this legal document, there was objection from different fronts to recognizing the public nature of this resource, but some wording was put forward and is in the current version suggesting that wildlife is a natural resource and as that there’s a responsibility for stewardship

of wildlife and habitat. So there was some attempt. That was a common comment that the committee heard. Perhaps not common, but a frequent comment. I think other amendments were made as an attempt to address some of the concerns and those, for example, on reporting harvest training and so on, appeal process, were not successful.

So, I’m running out of time I see. The Minister may seem committed to dealing with these other issues through the development of regulations, but is this right? Is that the way legislation should be handled? Can the fundamental basis for wildlife management measuring harvests be left out of regulations or left out of legislation and left to regulations still to be developed through an unknown process?

So that’s it. I look forward to further discussion and consideration of any amendments that may come forward. I will be keenly listening and monitoring the support of the House in hopes to try and make this a piece of legislation that I can support. With that, I conclude my comments. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Members. Any further general comments? I’ll give the Minister an opportunity, if he would like to respond to some of the general comments that have been made. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Madam Chair. I’d like to thank the Members for their comments and just acknowledge that this has been a very complex process and a long process, decades in length. At least probably five governments have been working on this particular issue.

As the comments indicate, there is still not anonymity. I’m hoping that there will be critical support to move this forward to the next phase and that at this juncture, after all this work, that we can take that leap of faith from an archaic, old piece of legislation that originally came to us from the 1950s and is thoroughly and sorely outdated.

So we will be supporting the seven motions that we worked on with committee that are coming forward, amendments that we will be concurring with. We’ve worked hard with committee and I appreciate all of the work that they’ve done to make necessary amendments that would give everybody enough comfort to move forward, recognizing the consensus government and the need for compromise.

This bill, when it is passed, should it be passed, will be exemplary in both the process and the content and I look forward to the clause-by-clause review and the debate and discussion that will follow with the motions, but I’m really hopeful that we will actually be able to close the file on this Wildlife Act, get the regulations done and in the life of this government have a fully functioning act and regulations. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. If there are no further general comments, does the committee agree to proceed with clause-by-clause review of Bill 3, Wildlife Act?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Agreed, thank you. Does committee agree to review the clauses in groups?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. The committee agrees to conduct a clause-by-clause review of Bill 3. Let’s turn to page 12 of the bill and begin with the preamble. Any questions on the preamble? Agreed?

---Preamble approved

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Clauses 1 to 14. Any questions or comments?

---Clause 1 to 14 inclusive approved

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Clause 15. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you,Madam Chair. Clause 15, unfortunately, is where we start running into problems in the act. Again, I’m generally supportive of this clause except that – again, as poor old Art tried to get collaboration and so on – unfortunately, it’s collaboration between just a select group here. I want to recognize again, very plainly, that I acknowledge and respect those who have decision-making authority for wildlife management. We need a process again, a one-tenth process, to enable everybody to hear the same information, otherwise this becomes a divisive process.

In clause 16 – and I refer to that because it is relevant to clause 15 – there is a process made for those without management authority to make submissions and recommendations on the conservation and management of wildlife and those are made public; they’re made available for public review. My concern is that requirement, which recognizes the need for openness and transparency and gives us the opportunity to work together as our elders have called for, is blocked and it becomes a barrier.

As I mentioned in my remarks, this may not happen, but it’s probably not something that should be left to, perhaps, category. I’m suggesting that, in fact, with a very minor change in clause 15, the adding of the word “public” before the word “meeting,” that we convene a “public” meeting, we can actually develop a transparent and public process that everybody can support because it would bring everybody under one tent. On that basis, I would like to propose a motion.

Committee Motion 97-17(4): Amendment To Clause 15, Defeated
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I would like to put forward a motion that reads: I move that clause 15 of Bill 3 be amended by deleting “convene a meeting” and substituting “convene a public meeting.” Thank you, Madam Chair.

Committee Motion 97-17(4): Amendment To Clause 15, Defeated
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. There is a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Miltenberger.

Committee Motion 97-17(4): Amendment To Clause 15, Defeated
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We have been working on this bill for years. We’ve had agreement with committee. Now we have this one motion. I have been in this business long enough to know one word can be important. While we appreciate the intent and will live with the will of the House, our concern is that the issue of the public meetings versus the ability of the groups to have a meeting that may require in camera sessions, others sessions that are tying their hands, we have committed to a public process, transparent process, but getting down to the level of telling them that you are required to have…you are going to meet once a year and it has to be a public meeting is something that, in our mind, given the amount of consultation we’ve done, is something that would require some consultation at this point and we’re not prepared to support the amendment just because this has just been dropped on our desk. We prided ourselves and learned the hard lesson that you have to be able to walk these through. But we are prepared to accept the will of the House. Thank you.

Committee Motion 97-17(4): Amendment To Clause 15, Defeated
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. To the motion. Mr. Bromley.

Committee Motion 97-17(4): Amendment To Clause 15, Defeated
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to note that this concern was repeatedly raised with the Minister during a review of this act, the need to develop a truly collaborative process and to provide an opportunity for everybody to hear the same information so that when decisions were made, there was some transparency on why they were made in the way that they’re made, and also to provide a critical opportunity for everybody to have input to all of the decision-makers. As it currently stands, the input would be made to the Minister on issues that would not even be clear, because not all management authorities would be in the Minister’s office and, of course, would be at the discretion of the Minister for whether they be carried forward or not. It is only through a truly collaborative approach and getting together, rubbing shoulders and having coffee, chatting with each other, of course the best of all would be to be out on the land together, as my colleague from the Sahtu had mentioned. That’s where the real good stuff happens. But next best thing would be to have a meeting that’s public. That’s not to say that the management authorities –

they are the authorities – could seclude themselves for the actual decision-making, but the discussions would largely be held in public to provide the transparency and openness of the public, again as called for. Thank you.

Committee Motion 97-17(4): Amendment To Clause 15, Defeated
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. To the motion.

Committee Motion 97-17(4): Amendment To Clause 15, Defeated
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

An Hon. Member

Question.

Committee Motion 97-17(4): Amendment To Clause 15, Defeated
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Question is being called.

---Defeated

Committee Motion 97-17(4): Amendment To Clause 15, Defeated
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Clause 15. Agreed?

---Clause 15 approved

Committee Motion 97-17(4): Amendment To Clause 15, Defeated
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Clauses 16 to 25.

---Clause 16 to 25 inclusive approved

Committee Motion 97-17(4): Amendment To Clause 15, Defeated
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Clause 26. Mr. Hawkins.

Committee Motion 98-17(4): Amendment To Clause 26, Carried
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

October 28th, 2013

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to read in a motion for the record. I move that clause 26 of Bill 3 be amended by adding the following after subclause (2):

(3) A person who has not received a written

response from a local harvesting committee, local band council or Metis council within 60 days after making a written request to the organization for a recommendation for a special harvester licence may, in writing, request the Minister to contact the organization to inquire about the status of the request.

(4) On receiving a request under subsection (3),

the Minister may contact the local harvesting committee, local band council or Metis council to inquire about the status of the request.

Thank you, Madam Chair.