This is page numbers 4847 – 4890 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was housing.

Topics

The House met at 1:31 p.m.

---Prayer

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Good afternoon, colleagues. Item 2, Ministers’ statements. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment

Mr. Speaker, responsible mineral exploration and development strengthens our territorial economy and helps to provide each region with opportunities and choices.

Later today I will be tabling the Mineral Development Strategy Implementation Plan, which will put the recommendations made in the Mineral Development Strategy into place. The creation of an environmentally sustainable NWT Mineral Development Strategy was a key priority of the 17th Legislative Assembly and it establishes a comprehensive plan to ensure the long-term growth of a sustainable mining industry that will create jobs and economic opportunities for the people of the NWT.

Mr. Speaker, this implementation plan was a partnership effort and was developed in conjunction with the NWT and Nunavut Chamber of Mines. I also want to thank the members of the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure for their input and guidance on the Mineral Development Strategy and the Implementation Plan.

The implementation plan puts the strategy into action by establishing concrete goals, objectives and timelines, and ensures we make progress in the five key areas of importance outlined in the Mineral Development Strategy. These include growing a sustainable mining sector, encouraging responsible mineral development and exploration, improving geoscience information and research, enhancing Aboriginal capacity and creating a Mining Incentive Program.

Some of these actions have already been put in place or are underway. The Mining Incentive Program was launched this past June. It was overwhelmingly popular and was oversubscribed by 200 percent in its very first year. This program aims to offset some of the financial risk associated with grassroots mineral exploration in the NWT, which we anticipate will result in increased investment in the territory and employment opportunities for residents.

The completion of the implementation plan is timely as we are seeing increased exploration activity in the NWT with rejuvenated interest in diamonds. In addition, the mining recorders office has received more than 300 new mineral claim applications since Devolution on April 1st , and the majority of these

claims are located around the existing diamond mines.

Mr. Speaker, the mining industry has been a pillar of the Northwest Territories’ economy for more than 80 years. In addition to being the largest private sector contributor to the NWT economy, the mining industry is also the largest private sector employer. The Mineral Development Strategy and Implementation Plan will help us to ensure the mining industry continues to be a key contributor to the NWT’s economic growth.

The implementation plan will continue to be evaluated and updated as we move forward, to ensure that actions remain relevant and effective, and we will continue to collaborate with our partners and work together to promote the NWT as an exciting place to work and invest.

Mr. Speaker, a key element of devolution was that this government would gain the tools to shape and direct the economic growth of the NWT. Capitalizing on our full potential takes the kind of strategic thought and planning that is reflected in the Mineral Development Strategy and Implementation Plan. I look forward to working with Members to advance the implementation plan and to achieve this Assembly’s vision of a prosperous territory. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Lands, Mr. McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Lands is responsible for managing and administering Territorial Lands and Commissioner’s Land. Territorial Lands are public lands formerly administered by the federal government and devolved to the Government of the Northwest Territories on April 1, 2014. Commissioner’s Land is public land already under the GNWT’s jurisdiction and formerly administered by the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. Prior to April 1st of this year, the GNWT was

only responsible for 0.02 percent of the land mass, or roughly 2,700 square kilometres. Post-devolution we are now responsible for 85 percent of the land mass of the NWT, or 1.15 million square kilometres.

At this time, Commissioner’s Land and newly devolved Territorial Lands are managed and administered under separate legislation and policy frameworks. Now that the GNWT manages the majority of public land in the NWT, we need to develop new recreational leasing policies that apply to both types of land.

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Lands has begun work on a new Recreational Land Management Framework. The Recreational Land Management Framework will help to harmonize the department’s approach to recreational land management while taking into account existing legislation, regulations and policies. Our goal is to ensure that decisions on recreational leasing consider potential land use needs and that land is managed in a transparent and consistent manner across the territory.

The Recreational Land Management Framework will address unauthorized use, access to leasing opportunities, maintaining public access to popular sites, and protecting areas of ecological and cultural value. It will also include area-specific studies and planning to address local land management issues like high demand for recreational leases.

One area that will be studied is the Ingraham Trail and Highway No. 3 area near Yellowknife, outside of the existing subdivisions. Lands has begun a land use plan scoping study to evaluate the potential benefits of an area-specific land use plan for this area.

The Government of the Northwest Territories will engage Aboriginal governments as it develops the framework, both individually and through the Intergovernmental Council, which was established to give parties to the Devolution Agreement the opportunity to collaborate on land management issues. Letters advising Aboriginal governments of our plans and inviting them to participate have already been sent.

The department will also engage with the public and key stakeholders to identify their interests and concerns about recreational land management as part of developing the framework. The department will post the draft framework on its website so that the public and stakeholders can review, ask questions and provide feedback.

While the Recreational Land Management Framework is being developed, no new applications will be accepted in the focus area. This will ensure the conditions of future leases meet the most up-to-date standards and guidelines. I want to emphasize that existing leases in good standing will not be impacted. Commercial activity will not be affected.

Notwithstanding this, Mr. Speaker, the Department of Lands will also be examining options in the short term for managing vacant, previously surveyed lots within existing subdivisions in the focus area.

Mr. Speaker, I want to be clear that the GNWT is also taking action against unauthorized occupancy across the Northwest Territories. We have recently enforced a court order to remove an individual and their belongings at a site that was unlawfully occupied. The department has also increased the number of inspections it conducts in order to identify all unauthorized users and has stepped up efforts to raise public awareness.

Guided by the Land Use and Sustainability Framework, the Department of Lands is committed to managing public land in a fair, transparent and sustainable manner to ensure that rural land across the NWT is managed in a way that reflects traditional use and northern priorities.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, Northerners care about the land and want to enjoy access to rural land for recreational purposes across the Northwest Territories. The Government of the Northwest Territories is committed to ensuring that access is responsive to the priorities of our residents and respects traditional use, both now and into the future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Deputy Premier, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise Members that the Premier will be absent from the House for today and tomorrow to attend the Fourth Annual Women’s Summit in Sydney, Nova Scotia. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Colleagues, before we go on today, I’d like to recognize in the House today with us representative Bob Herron from Bethel, Alaska, champion of Alaskan policy and a real friend of the NWT. Welcome to the House.

Item 3, Members’ statements. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Jane Groenewegen

Jane Groenewegen Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I listen to my colleagues in this House share the stories of their communities and their regions with respect to the costs of living, and I hear of stories of people who want to leave the North because of the cost of living and people who feel they don’t have options to stay here, I think this government does have a role to play in helping to quantify some of that seemingly anecdotal information. I don’t know if we’ve undertaken an exercise like this lately, but I think the government should look at the different communities. We cannot compare Tuktoyaktuk cost of living to Yellowknife. I know back in the days of EDI, they used to have, for purposes of business development, level I, level II, level III communities. So I think for starters we could compare apples to apples a little more closely if we compared regional centres, if we compared small communities and if we compared Yellowknife as a stand-alone community, because things are quite different here in Yellowknife from a household income point of view and also from a cost of living point of view.

I do think we have a role to play as government, but many things about the cost of living are kind of subjective. Now, you can talk about the price of kilowatt per hour and you can talk about some hard data, but a lot of things are based on personal choices and people’s personal priorities. For example, some people want to drive a new car every few years and some are happy to drive the same car for 10 years. Some people want to buy a new snow machine and harvest their own wildlife on the land. Some people would rather stay home and take that as money and go to the grocery store and buy it.

There are so many subjective aspects to this issue of cost of living. Mr. Miltenberger so aptly pointed out the other day, our government does try to offset those costs, and I think he mentioned a number of $200 million a year in subsidies to try to offset the costs that people incur.

I grew up in south western Ontario in a home with humble means with five children, and my parents always had to pay the Ontario health insurance premium bill when it came every month. That’s unheard of in the Northwest Territories. We don’t pay health insurance up here, and when you get to be 60 it gets even sweeter I’m finding out as my husband is turning 60 next month.

---Laughter

I’m way far behind.

---Laughter

I think that the Government of the Northwest Territories should develop some hard data, some good comparisons on the cost of living comparing apples to apples, oranges to oranges, comparing other jurisdictions in Canada and let’s get some hard facts. Then when people say they are leaving because they can’t afford the cost of living, we have some information to come back to them, and we can also look at some initiatives as a government how we can further target some of these costs and help people. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Yellowknife Farmers Market
Members’ Statements

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This week is Small Business Week in the Northwest Territories. Small business contributes much more than revenue and services to communities; they strengthen the social fabric and cultural identity of the places we call home. They are strong sponsors and volunteers.

Yellowknife is blessed with entrepreneurs who provide services, goods and employment enriching our lives and being good neighbours. Weledeh itself is rich with businesses that produce healthy ripples throughout the community. The arts, recycling, outdoor guiding and recreation, clothing, furniture, restaurants and accommodation are a few examples. In fact, small entrepreneurs from throughout Yellowknife are coming together to support the sale of their wares to the public through the wildly successful Yellowknife Farmers Market at Somba K’e Civic Plaza operation weekly through the summer in the heart of the city. Today I would like to profile this enterprise.

The market features locally grown, harvested and processed items including fresh produce, fresh and smoked fish, local syrups and teas, jams and preserves, baked goods, international cuisine produced locally, arts and crafts, and health and beauty products. In 2014 the market doubled its GDP impact to nearly $1 million of benefit to Yellowknife.

The market also helps strengthen the social fabric of the city. The Tuesday evening markets encourage people to come together with friends and family congregating to enjoy dinner and entertainment in the fresh, though sometimes smoky, air to visit and purchase products made or grown by their friends and neighbours. Many non-profit and community organizations took advantage of the crowds to deliver their message and raise their profile, and performers were able to increase their public exposure through busking.

The crowds were incredible and the energy amazing, a tribute to what can happen when a community comes together for mutual benefit. It was hugely successful.

ITI came through with investments in the Farmers Market for the purchase of carts, tables, signage and supplies and marketing and promotion, including the development of a logo and branding. Combined with the dedication of the market board and retailers, this modest investment contributed to the development of community self-sufficiency, food security, pride in the community, a stronger social fabric and positive economic activity that helps with the cost of living.

Mr. Speaker, I ask you and my colleagues to join me in saying to the Yellowknife market, well done. Mahsi.

Yellowknife Farmers Market
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I’d like to speak about a young, made-in-the-NWT, well-known mental health program for youth; specifically, FOXY, which stands for Fostering Opening eXpression among Youth.

FOXY is a participatory action research project. Big words which means that youth are involved in all aspects of the project, from its development to its implementation and then evaluation. The research component involves looking at the effectiveness of FOXY and empowering NWT youth, and facilitating dialogue about sexual health issues in the NWT.

The NWT has one of the highest rates for sexual abuse in Canada. We have many young girls and women who are unsure how to handle themselves in a sexual environment and who are hesitant to talk about sex, sexual orientation and sexual activity. Young women who need what the FOXY program provides: the empowerment of young NWT women and open dialogue about sexual health.

FOXY uses storytelling, drama and art to talk with girls about building empowered decision-making skills and about sexual health. The girls act out real-world scenarios, like being approached by older men on Facebook, for example, and they take part in positive body image activities in a safe, non-judgemental environment.

Over the past year, thanks to partnership with Canadian North Airlines, the FOXY crew has visited almost a dozen NWT communities, Aklavik, Colville Lake, Fort Good Hope and Tulita among them. Since its inception, FOXY has had several retreats with participants from 11 of our communities: Ulukhaktok, Inuvik, Tuktoyaktuk, Fort Good Hope,

Norman Wells, Fort Smith, Whati, Hay River, Fort Liard, Fort Providence and Yellowknife.

FOXY receives funding from the Public Health Agency of Canada but has also developed numerous other partnerships with schools, youth centres and community agencies, including the Northern V Network, which is a non-profit who is fighting to end gender-based violence.

FOXY’s funding is in place until March 31, 2015, but that federal funding will then end, not to be renewed until April of 2017, a two-year gap. It’s very uncertain if the program can continue over the next two years.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

The NWT has been the beneficiary of federally funded FOXY programming, and in the absence of that federal funding next year, it is incumbent on the GNWT to fill the financial void, to find the funding necessary for FOXY to continue. This is a successful program, one that serves NWT youth – and that’s a stated goal of this 17th Assembly – and it is a program that is growing. It would be a crime to let this program fade away. As business plans are being finalized, I urge Cabinet to find the funding for this worthwhile program. If FOXY ends next April and we have sat idly by doing nothing to assist, then all I can say is shame. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Early on in this government, Members of the Assembly had a pretty good debate on an issue in terms of infrastructure. This government funded a non-government organization a certain amount of money to help with the construction of that building, and actually that building that was developed is actually working in the sense that it’s one of the focuses of our priorities, which is early childhood development. Obviously, that didn’t go well with some Members, but it was a really good debate, and at the end of the day, this government put forward money so an NGO could build their infrastructure.

However, Members did agree on that with one fact in mind: that this government go out and create a policy that states that this government will look at supporting non-government organizations in the building of their infrastructure plans on the fact that we do create a policy. Initially it was a policy that was supposed to be developed only for daycares, early childhood facilities. Committee came back

and said we want to focus it on a broader structure moving forward for all NGOs.

There are a lot of non-government organizations that do a lot of great work in the Northwest Territories. We heard earlier this week about some of the job situations in the communities. We have a great organization here in Yellowknife, the NWT SPCA that could use some funding to increase their infrastructure so that they can house more pets and animals. We have shelters that do work on behalf of government by housing the homeless and housing people that might be battling addictions.

I will have questions later today on where the development of this policy is. There are a lot of organizations that continue to struggle in the Northwest Territories but continue to do topnotch work that government should be doing. We want to support these organizations, whether it’s with infrastructure, whether it’s forced growth funding that they don’t see but our departments see. We do spend millions of dollars on forced growth within our departments, but a lot of organizations continue to operate on the same dollar that they always have.

I will have questions later today about an update on this policy. Where is this policy, and if there is no policy, what is the process for an NGO to come to government to ask for that top-up and that support?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. The Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How worried should we be about our financial future as a government? Well, if you listen to our Finance Minister, he’ll try to reassure that his department restored the balance between revenues and expenditures. But did they? He’ll tell you this administration works on paying down their short-term borrowing debt and focuses on building their cash reserves. But do they? All I can recall is that our short-term borrowing limit was increased by this administration from $175 million to $275 million less than two years ago and we were told last week they want another $25 million to top this up. So I ask, how is this paying down short-term debt and building up cash reserves? It’s a funny way of showing it.

Then there’s that famous reference that devolution will reduce our reliance on federal funding. Very poetic, yet there is absolutely no evidence to this statement. So I ask, how is the Minister measuring this one?

Then there’s the ever popular line that the GNWT has been successful in managing expenditure growth. Well, to be truthful, our expenditure growth is about 1 percent, despite forced growth at about 2

percent, but if you factor in Canada’s 2013 inflation rate of 1.3 percent, in real terms it only suggests a slight reduction in spending. So I ask again, is this successful by definition? Not really.

We know over 70 percent of our revenues come from the Territorial Formula Financing Grant, which we’re always reminded is outside the ability of the GNWT to influence. But again, is this true?

I asked those hard questions earlier this year, yet this government refused to look at a legislative triggering opportunity to review this formula financing with the feds in 2014. Too busy with devolution, they said, and now it’s too late.

Clearly, without growth in other revenues, this government needs to reduce or realign operating and infrastructure budgets, yet this is not happening. Instead, we continue to spend ourselves into a corner with every budget.

Yes, as a strategy, we need to grow our economy to increase revenues, to meet expenditure demands and invest wisely in infrastructure. This is all a given. However, without immediate corrective behavior, I fear history will judge the 17th Legislative

Assembly as the one that went down the wrong path of righteousness at the expense of ignorance. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased with the Human Resources department strategy on striving for a representative workforce and ensuring that we follow our Aboriginal… I’m sorry, my notes are a bit mixed up here, but the Affirmative Action Policy is what I wanted to address here.

Our regional education authorities have no involvement or request no training from Human Resources for their hiring committees. This is concerning because I have heard of several cases in the past few years where our Northerners and our Aboriginals who have become teachers are often overlooked for applying for teaching jobs in their home communities.

I did some quick research into the stats of how many Aboriginals and Northerners work in our education system. On a whole, it is about 45 percent. However, when we look at the professionals, when we look at the teachers, we have only about 26 percent that are Aboriginals and/or Northerners. This falls short of our affirmative action and representative workforce goals.

I should qualify that existing teachers mostly become part of our communities and become great Northerners. My concern is that going forward we must involve and allow the Human Resources department to work with our regional education authorities so that our Northerners and Aboriginal teachers are not overlooked and given a chance to truly contribute and teach and give back to our Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. October 19th to 26th , as we heard, is Small Business

Week across Canada. While we should be celebrating the success of our small business owners and entrepreneurs, it’s almost time of a recession in the Sahtu. We saw a record high of investment in the oil and gas sector, but things are starting to quiet down. Actually, News/North put out a full page highlighting the benefits of energy exploration in the North and in the Sahtu. Perhaps the Canadian rock band, the Barenaked Ladies, sang it best: if I had a million dollars. Well, I’ll tell you what I’d do if I had that kind of cash during Small Business Week of 2014. I would get some partners and build a technology institution in the Sahtu.

A Sahtu technical institution that would bring young people together that could be taught how to succeed in life by developing the ability to think in practical terms rather than theoretical terms. Learn by doing, doing things in the business world.

The time is now for our government and industry to invest in our youth and in businesspeople. Our small business is the best investment our government can make. The public and the market will greatly benefit in having educated, skilled workers that build their business. Our best capital is our businesspeople. They have imagination. Where would private industry and our government be without imagination, trail-breaking innovators, the thinkers who dare to think outside the box? We might have the next Bombardier, Steve Jobs or Thomas Edison or Jackie Robinson living in Tulita or Deline or Fort Good Hope. But they will not have the eureka moment or the big break until we lead by example and invest in a technological institution for the Sahtu.

Now it’s time to partnership. Whether you’re a trapper in Fort Good Hope or an oil executive sitting in Norman Wells, it’s time to bring our people together.

These are people benefitting the communities through the breakfast program, bringing our culture together by building the moose skin boat.

Mr. Speaker, I am seeking unanimous consent to conclude my Member’s statement.

---Unanimous consent granted

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

At student graduations you see a long list of the businesspeople that come to the graduations to contribute to the success and achievement of the high school graduates.

In conclusion, businesspeople are hardworking people who are on a 24/7 call, year after year pursuing their dreams, the dreams that they pass on to children, that if you work hard, you will get what you want. There are failures, but you have to get yourself up off the ground again and put that as part of the value in their upbringing. Let’s celebrate these businesspeople who are there for us in the North.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s a good day. I would like to congratulate Cora Helmer and Stephane Millette. They had a new baby boy this morning, over 8 pounds, and they have not named him yet.

---Applause

I suggested Robert, but I’m not sure if that’s going to fly or not.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, it’s a good day. Today we can announce that we have two midwives in Hay River, Heather Heinrichs and Toni Fehr. Both have experience in delivering babies in a northern remote setting. This Hay River midwifery team will be partnered with Yellowknife doctor, Dr. Guthrie. Dr. Guthrie is well known to Hay River; he used to practice in Hay River.

This team will also receive training, along with some of the RNs in Hay River, to implement this Midwifery Program, a great thing for putting Hay River back on birth certificates, which was a goal of ours when we started this Assembly.

This program will be optional, but it does put Hay River back on the map. This program will be available to Hay River, Hay River Reserve and Enterprise residents. This program was started in January. We are excited to see the future come forward. Good luck everybody. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Member for Deh Cho, Mr. Nadli.

Kakisa Community Hall
Members’ Statements

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I’m sure Members and the public are ready for a good news story for a change.

Kakisa is getting a new community hall and I wanted to recognize the good work being done on this project. Community halls are important to the social fabric of the NWT. They are the scene of hundreds of local events but also serve the territory as a meeting place for visitors, presentations, consultations and regional special occasions.

The new facility replaces a much smaller community hall attached to the band office, and Kakisa simply outgrew the space. Using its MACA infrastructure contribution, the community planned a new stand-alone hall that will benefit everyone in the community.

The community has let two RFPs for the project and I am pleased that both contracts were awarded to northern companies. Community members were full participants in the design process. The project is now well underway. The foundation and floor have been laid, the walls are up, and hopefully the roof is put on before we get much more snow. The project should be complete by the end of March.

The new hall will make it possible to accommodate meetings, conferences, feasts, programs for youth and people of all ages, special events and, who knows, maybe even the Dehcho First Nations Assembly or the Dene Nation Assembly this summer. Kakisa’s community hall and nearby campground will make a unique venue for a retreat for regional or territorial organizations.

I want to recognize the community members who are leading the charge on this initiative and their efforts for taking on the project. I look forward to seeing the new facility become a well-used gathering place and a real asset to the community.

Please join me in congratulating Kakisa on the work so far. I look forward to the grand opening of the new community hall sometime next spring. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Kakisa Community Hall
Members’ Statements

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Everywhere I look, and it doesn’t take any effort at all, you see Northerners dedicating themselves to the success of this great territory. You find people committed in every single corner of our North, whether they’re lifelong Northerners or they’re people who have invested a few short years in getting to know the North. It doesn’t matter if they’re First Nation, Metis, Inuvialuit or non-Aboriginal. So

many have dedicated their families to northern values and the opportunities that are before them.

There is certainly much to be proud of. But, as I fear, and certainly many people do, that those values have been under attack by this government and its outlook when it comes to hiring Northerners in real jobs. When the everyday Northerner is trying to find work, they’re looking for a break and certainly a helping hand.

Jobs are different everywhere you look. In Yellowknife the unemployment rate is 3.4 percent. In the communities it’s over 30 percent. That should be a bell ringing loud and clear to this government. But when Northerners see themselves so easily shut out by job fairs that head down south to Ottawa, they wonder, do they matter anymore. Does the investment that they make here with their families, where they pour their hearts and souls into our communities, does it matter little?

Jimmy Carter’s famous slogan was always your politicians will always be there when they need you. Frankly, it couldn’t be more clearly illustrated when this Cabinet recently pulled out their chequebook and waved a $20 million cheque to cover the shortfall of the Power Corp. Now, we all know the citizens certainly were grateful to avoid that rate rider, but frankly, now that the dust has settled, the citizens are asking, was that to ensure that they weren’t hammered continually in this Assembly.

For years I’ve been calling for power rate relief, and it’s always fallen on deaf ears and brushed off as something they would never do. Let’s get to the bottom line. Illustrations like that couldn’t be clearer. This government has had hundreds of ghost jobs on the books, some real, some who knows what when it comes to unreal positions. It’s time this government starts to pony up the truth about where some of these jobs are, what results have been driven by these southern job fairs. Frankly, we’re going to hear whining from this government about micromanagement and too much detail, but the darned everyday citizen calls this accountability and it’s time to step up.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors in the gallery.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Colleagues, I’d like to welcome the former Speaker of Nunavut and a former colleague I worked with for CPA, Mr. Hunter Tootoo, in the House today. Welcome. Also, my good cousin, Wanda Norwegian, Norterra, and Mrs. Christy Sinclair. Welcome to the House.

Mr. Ramsay.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to take a second to recognize a Page that I

have working in the Assembly last week and this week. Kyle Stannard from Kam Lake. I also wanted to take a second to recognize representative Bob Herron, visiting us from the great state of Alaska. Welcome, Bob. I see Sean Ivens up there as well. Welcome, Sean. Welcome to the Assembly, and everybody else that’s here today, welcome.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Hawkins.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First off I’d like to join you in recognizing Hunter Tootoo. He’s been a good friend over the years that I’ve gotten to know, and as well, he’s flanked by two women amazingly time has stopped for, Christy Sinclair and Wanda Norwegian. I’ve known them a long time and they look as young as ever. I don’t know how I keep getting older. It’s the truth, though; that’s the problem. Same as Mr. Ramsay there, I too wish to recognize Sean Ivens. He’s a very well-known businessman. We grew up together in Fort Simpson. He spent many years in Hay River and certainly in Yellowknife, and he’s certainly sitting next to his lovely wife, Rhonda Ivens, who certainly keeps him walking hard, and it’s great to see them both here today.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Dolynny.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to introduce to you and through you a number of people with us here today, and of course, in no particular order, we do have, as we heard earlier, Mr. Sean Ivens, welcome, and the lovely Rhonda Ivens. Thank you very much for joining us today. With us, our Page Program, as we all know, is a great program introducing youth across the North to our proceedings in the House. I do have a couple of young people here from the Range Lake School who also are Range Lake residents. I apologize if I pronounce this wrong. Nokuthula Rukobo and Quinn Levesque, thank you very much for all your work as Pages for us at the House. Thank you.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Bouchard.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize Sean Ivens, a long-timer from Hay River and a friend of mine, as well as representative Herron who represents us. We’ve talked quite a bit about Alaska and the Northwest Territories and how much we have in common. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. I’d like to again welcome everybody here in the gallery. Thank you for taking an interest in our proceedings here today.

Item 6, acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of ITI. I’ve talked about the small businesspeople in the North, specifically around the communities I represent in the Sahtu region.

I want to ask the Minister of ITI, given the recent economic recession slowdown this year, has the Minister been monitoring the performance of the number of applicants under the Business Incentive Program this year.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Some companies have made business decisions affecting the amount of work that is going to take place in the central Mackenzie Valley in the Sahtu this coming winter. I understand there will be some meetings here this fall, and hopefully the activity returns to the region. But certainly the department and our regional staff are keeping a watchful eye on what’s happening in the region. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, perhaps we could look at the macroeconomics or step back from the government coffers and look at the industry.

Can the Minister of ITI tell us how much investment this government is making in the Sahtu with regard to infrastructure or training, compared to the $35 million invested by big oil in the Tulita district?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, I know at ITI we’ve added some positions. There are other government departments that added positions as well. So to get a comprehensive look at what we’ve put into the Sahtu, if the Member wants, over the past two or three years since the activity started, that’s something that I’d like to do for him and we can hopefully put that together and get it to the Member in short order. Thank you.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

The businesspeople in the Sahtu are certainly suffering due to a decision by the oil companies. The Sahtu Dene Inn will be a heritage hotel in Norman Wells, or even the Yamoria Inn. They are both beautiful hotels, well-furnished and fully staffed. They are just maintaining the level of just keeping the lights on. Some weeks they only had one or two guests in those hotels, compared to the years back where they were so fully booked that they had to bring in extra trailers.

I want to ask the Minister, this being Small Business Week – and this is the only sector of the businesspeople that I’m talking about in the Sahtu – what is the government doing in regards to the

slowdown of the economic activity of the oil and gas industry in the Sahtu, so that our businesspeople do not have to close their doors, turn off their lights and come back when the activity if ramping up again. What is this government doing?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Mr. Speaker, we have to continue as a government to make investments in the Sahtu, and that is in infrastructure. If there’s a way that we can look at projects or opportunities to partner with the region, that’s something that I think is very important, if there’s a lull in the activity here, at least for the next winter. Hopefully there is a return of some activity in the central Mackenzie Valley, so that companies and employers have opportunities there to put people to work. It’s important to see that happen, and I look forward to continuing to work with the Member to see that happen. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The people in the Sahtu from 2006, 2010, had about six Aboriginal businesses, I believe, and later on over the years they have grown to over 30 businesses, maybe more. The economy has slowed down for a time, but they will come back. Believe me, they will come back.

I want to ask the Minister in regard to the activity that’s happened in past years. Can the Minister, through his colleagues, tell us in regard to the income support that this government has given out to our people in the Sahtu region? When the business was booming in the Sahtu, did our income support payments to the Sahtu go down a significant amount of dollars compared to now that we see a huge increase because there is no oil and gas exploration happening in the Sahtu? Thank you.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you. It is a very proud statistic for the region that we saw in Tulita the growth from six Aboriginal-owned businesses to 30 Aboriginal-owned businesses in the past few years. That’s a testament to all the activity and the entrepreneurial spirit that’s in the community. We also saw a big decrease in the amount of income support payments paid to people in the Sahtu. For the exact figure, the Member would probably want to go to ECE and get an exact figure, but anecdotally that figure was around $1 million less in income support payments paid to the people in the Sahtu last year. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Earlier I spoke about the difficulties of our Aboriginal teachers and new northern teachers in getting into our education authorities.

I’d like to ask the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment to advise me how is the current hiring process set up with our district education authorities. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The district education authorities go through a process of hiring teachers and other professions in the community, such as principals or administrators. They all follow the Affirmative Action Policy that’s been established by this government, by all education authorities. Not only that but they also have to follow an established hiring process monitored and overseen by our Human Resources department.

The selection committee is also responsible for hiring teachers, also including local DEA members. So they can involve the community as well.

So that’s part of the process of the hiring process of DEAs. Mahsi.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much. I’m going to have to contradict the Minister on the DEAs following our Affirmative Action Policy and our representative Workforce Strategy because I’ve been informed in the past, there’s one particular case, where an Aboriginal teacher had the same equivalencies as southern teachers, where we get a lot of them from, I’ll say that in this House, but that job was given to a southern teacher instead of our Aboriginal teacher. The affirmative guidelines clearly state same experience, same level of training and we lean towards the Aboriginal teacher.

So once again, can the Minister ensure me or show me where our education authorities must follow our Affirmative Action Policy, because I’m given to believe it’s not happening. Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mahsi. We work very closely with the local DEAs and DECs, so we have to ensure that they all follow. That Affirmative Action Policy fully applies to all education authorities across the Northwest Territories and they must follow and establish a hiring process monitor and are also overseen by our HR department that Mr. Tom Beaulieu is responsible for.

So those are some of the processes that we need to work closely with all the DEAs across the

Northwest Territories to make sure that they hire the most qualified people from the communities as well. Mahsi.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

While the policy may be there, I don’t believe that it is being followed out, because in our Health department, which is also a stand-alone department, they involved Human Resources right throughout the selection committee and to the hiring committees as well. But there’s no such thing that happens with our education authorities. Human Resources is not involved, nor are they with the selection committee and our interview committee and I think that’s an issue and that’s what I’d like to see our education authorities do. Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Mr. Speaker, part of the process obviously involves Human Resources staff personnel. There are regions that differ when it comes to hiring, but with respect to the Dehcho DEA, I have to make further inquiries about Human Resources being part of the process as well. So I’ll get that information and previous incidents of hiring practices, if they have involved Human Resources. I’ll get that information. Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final, short supplementary. Mr. Menicoche.

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much. I’m pleased with the Minister’s commitment to look into it and I truly believe that all our education authorities must involve Human Resources and must involve them at all levels, even at the interview stage, because I believe that we’ve taken great strides for this government. This government wants a represented workforce and it must include our education authorities. So once more I ask the Minister to look at that, meet with his officials at the boards and ensure that our Affirmative Action Policy is followed. Thank you.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Monfwi

Yes, we will continue to monitor and make sure that the DEAs are following the Affirmative Action Policy, and the process itself involving the Human Resources will be brought to the DEAs’ attention. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. According to Tabled Document 127-17(5) – and my questions today are for the Minister of Lands – Canadian Zinc’s Prairie Creek Mine has a shortfall of $6 million in the amount of financial securities provided, evenly split between the environmental land use permits and water licence. The same tabled document indicates GNWT has failed to collect the startling $170 million-plus in securities

related to the water licence related to Dominion Diamonds’ Ekati mine.

Can the Minister explain these shortfalls and indicate when the required security will be forthcoming? Mahsi.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister of Lands, Mr. R.C. McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Prairie Creek operation is a fairly complex operation as I believe some of the land is still on land that is retained by the federal government, so we’re in the process of trying to iron out the details to make sure that… We’re still in negotiations with these folks as to the security that is being required of them.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Speaker, how can you allow the responder to only answer to $6 million out of $176 million here? I’m wondering why the Minister has failed to answer that question. I’m perplexed here.

Federal failures to collect securities such as this are costing the Canadian public $8 billion. In addition to hundreds of millions in failed securities with this government, Dominion Diamonds have baulked at a condition proposed by the Wek’eezhii Land and Water Board to include a 90-day requirement for compliance with any revised water board security requirements. This, apparently, is also the position of the GNWT.

Can the Minister explain why this government is opposed to a condition sought by the Wek’eezhii Land and Water Board requiring timely payment of security deposits designed to protect the public? And I’d love to hear about the other $170 million. Mahsi.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, it’s too early in the game to say the sky is falling. This is a responsibility that’s being given to us and we currently, I think, have over $500 million in securities. There may have been some slippages in the past. We as a territorial government are going to do our best to ensure that these don’t happen again. We’ve formed a liability division within the Department of Lands to deal with this particular issue.

Again, I will follow up on the Member’s concern with these particular sites that he is pointing out, but I do know that there are some negotiations that are going on. We are hoping to have a resolution soon. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

I appreciate the Minister’s intent, but we are looking for performance here. We are talking hundreds of millions of dollars here in liabilities, and history, yes, we have history up the gazoo, Mr. Speaker, on failed collection of securities.

The two shortfalls I referred to in my first two questions exposed the GNWT to liability, as I mentioned, and amount to a backdoor subsidy to industry and a proven risk – a proven risk – to taxpayers. These securities are levied to cover real liabilities.

Will the Minister commit to vigorously pursuing these two outstanding, legally required securities and safeguard the people of the NWT from huge financial and environmental liabilities such as the $8 billion Canadian liability mostly from northern mines? Mahsi.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, I will commit to watching over this. I think it’s a commitment that we made to committee when we were speaking to them. Again, it is fairly early in the game and we’re still getting our hands or our mind wrapped around the liabilities and all that we inherited and what we can and can’t do. But I will commit to the Member and to this Legislative Assembly that we will be watching these developments and the liabilities securities that are required like a hawk and make sure that any future cleanup, if there needs to be, is covered. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Minister’s commitment. I realize that despite the fact that I’ve been talking about this for over a year, that this has just been dropped into this Minister’s lap and I appreciate that commitment.

To be failsafe, governments have learned securities held must be in the form of bankable instruments such as cash or irrevocable letters of credit. Other instruments such as surety bonds are basically promises to pay. I note that the form of security is missing for Dominion Diamond $42 million environmental security listed in the tabled document.

After the Giant Mine experience, Treminco’s Ptarmigan Mine, Taherra, Snowfields and others, will the Minister commit to avoiding setting a low security instrument threshold such as surety bonds, and instead require highly secure and bankable instruments such as the ILOCs to provide the certainty we have learned is required to protect the public? Mahsi.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, The boards set the security and we negotiate with the company as to the form of instrument that we’re going to use. I can assure this Assembly that we will ensure that we have security that’s, as the Member said, something other than a promise to pay. I think with these particular ones, we might be in the process of negotiating right now the instrument, so I will give Members an update once that work is complete. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For many years the community of Tsiigehtchic has been asking for an RCMP detachment in the community. I would like to ask the Minister of Justice, it has been over six months now that we had a commitment that we would have the RCMP start overnighting in the community.

How many times since that commitment has the RCMP overnighted in Tsiigehtchic? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister of Justice, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Member for the question. We have had a lot of back and forth with the community of Tsiigehtchic on trying to identify accommodations. There have been some difficulties in that. We are hopeful that we can rectify those problems and we can have members overnight in the community of Tsiigehtchic, and I hope to see that happen sooner rather than later. This is something that I will make sure happens. Thank you.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I know the policy is one of the issues, that we cannot have one person put in a community, like a small community like Tsiigehtchic.

So I would like to ask the Minister, will the Minister adopt the policy from Alaska which allows community officers in small communities? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

I recently was at an FPT meeting in Banff where Ministers from around the country were discussing Aboriginal and First Nations policing and the fact that the federal government hasn’t been forthcoming with more funding to see community constables put into small Aboriginal communities across the country.

It’s not only an issue here in the Northwest Territories but it’s something other jurisdictions are struggling with as well. I believe I was the fifth Justice Minister from the Northwest Territories to sit around that table and let the federal government know that we’re not happy with the amount of funding that we’re getting. We want to see more funding. We want to see an opportunity to have Aboriginal people back in the communities doing police service, and that’s something we believe strongly in. We have four positions that are legacy positions we received funding for in the Northwest Territories, but we certainly need more funding to deliver First Nations policing and have communities work with communities to have a better policing service.

We have made great strides in working with communities and the leadership in communities on developing community policing plans and community safety plans, and that’s been a real benefit to providing that service in communities as well.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Will the Minister continue to rely on our bylaw and my constituents to do citizen’s arrests, or with the Minister solve our problems and approve a detachment for our community of Tsiigehtchic?

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

It’s our intent to continue to work with the leadership in the community of Tsiigehtchic and other communities around the Northwest Territories to ensure that they have the best policing service possible. In terms of a detachment, a stand-alone detachment, it could cost somewhere between $10 million and $15 million, and of course, we don’t have the capital today to see us do that. We are moving forward with plans to repair and bring up to speed a couple of other larger detachments in the Northwest Territories, including Inuvik and Behchoko, at this time.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The Member for Range Lake, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Historically, environmental remediation costs have been handled as a post-year and supplementary appropriation by this government. Given our new-found post-devolution powers as stewards of the land and environmental cleanup, this current practice of seeing an appropriation for the annual accrual for such liability is a direct violation of current public accounting standards of practice. According to the Office of the Auditor General of Canada, these new accounting standards require these remediation costs to be done up front.

Can the Minister of Finance confirm that the Office of the Auditor General of Canada assist the departments responsible for remediating sites under devolution, and did the OAG fully explain to these departments this is now the norm in accounting standards?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We are taking all the steps necessary along with all the other departments post-devolution to make sure that we comply with all the appropriate statutes, requirements, regulations and guidelines.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

We haven’t had confirmation if the OAG staff did confirm that they did meet with

these departments, but can the Minister of Finance explain why his department is still currently in direct violation to these public accounting standards of practice today?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We just had a successful audit. We are going to be tabling the public accounts in the next little bit, and we fully expect to be compliant as required.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

We still hear that the department here is compliant. We haven’t seen the final results yet, but I can tell you that the standards of practice are in violation, so to be fair I will ask this one more time and offer to the Minister of Finance to clearly articulate why his department refuses to deal with environmental remediation costs properly.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We fully engage ourselves in complying with all the necessary regulations and requirements that govern us, or if we have any other kind of involvement with the senior government like the federal government, we will, of course, work to comply in those areas as well. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It’s difficult to continue with these types of questions when we continue to hear a paid public announcement here by the Minister. Clearly, the Minister and department are keen in ignoring these standards of public accounting.

So in preparation for the upcoming public accounts, can the Minister maybe enlighten us as to how many other breaches of accounting standards the Department of Finance intends to violate this year? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

As we sit through the political bavardage of my colleague, we can clearly see he’s on a fishing expedition. We, of course, pride ourselves on complying and having good audits, Aa1 credit rating, budgets passed unanimously in this House, public accounts that meet the test, and we are going to continue to hit those standards. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just following up on my Member’s statement, a direction was given to the government to create a policy in terms of providing funding to non-government organizations for their infrastructure needs. I will ask the Deputy Premier – who also is the Minister of Education whom this came to, so he’s well

versed in this policy that we’re talking about today – has the government undertaken this work to create such a policy that we can fund non-government organizations for the infrastructure they need who do good work on behalf of government? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Honourable Deputy Premier, Mr. Lafferty.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Deputy Premier

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of Executive and also Finance are working on a draft policy on publicly funding privately owned infrastructure. Once there’s an approval for referral, it will be presented to a standing committee for their review and also for their comments. The plan is to have the policy rated for review by next session. So that is the overall plan, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

There is a concern because I know there were a lot of non-government organizations who were looking at this House when we actually approved a non-government organization for the infrastructure needs. It’s taken over two years to get this policy in place.

Is there any opportunity to speed up the process so it comes to committee… Or can I ask the Minister, with the draft policy that he’s working on, can that policy be given to committee to give any input right now to speed up the process? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Deputy Premier

Part of the plan was to introduce that in the next session, but I can commit to the Member I will find out the status of where the actual draft policy is at. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

As I mentioned, we do have a lot of NGOs out in the territory who do great work on behalf of the Northwest Territories. As I mentioned earlier, the NWT SPCA who takes wild, I won’t say wild, but stray dogs from the communities and putting them into their compound but it’s getting filled up, also shelters who are sheltering homeless and people who are battling addictions. In the meantime, while we are creating this policy – obviously there’s a policy coming – can any NGOs apply for funding for infrastructure needs from now until when we see this policy come into the next session? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Deputy Premier

The NGOs, obviously, can apply for programming we have within GNWT. This particular focus is on having a policy in place to deal with private funding for public infrastructure. That is in a draft format and will be ready for next session, but I will get the status on that.

With respect to accessing other programs or infrastructure funds, there is a venue for that, as well, within GNWT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Moses.

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m quite aware of some of the programs that are available that NGOs can actually utilize, but can the Deputy Premier clarify what programs the government has right now that NGOs can access for their infrastructure needs as he stated in his last remarks? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Jackson Lafferty

Jackson Lafferty Deputy Premier

As I committed in this House, I will be providing the latest status on the draft policy on infrastructure. At the same time, we will provide those various different types of programming, funding that’s available for NGOs within the GNWT. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Member for Hay River North, Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I indicated, it’s a good day. My questions are to the Minister of Health about the program of midwifery.

Can he give me an update on how other programs on midwifery are being rolled out currently?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. The honourable Minister of Health, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Health and Social Services

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Following the plan, we have put money into the Hay River region for two positions. Those two positions are filled. The next step is, obviously, we are planning to put some money in the budget for 2015-16 for Inuvik. In the meantime, we are working with Inuvik to explain the protocols and procedures that will be followed in that jurisdiction and we are hoping to fill those positions in 2015-16.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

As we begin to roll out more midwifery programs, will this program speed up? Will we be implementing two programs in one year, or are we doing one a year? I guess we are learning our process as we go. Can we speed the process up?

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Health and Social Services

Every region, every community in the Northwest Territories is different and has their own unique realities. The plan was originally to put them in Hay River one year, Beaufort-Delta the second year and then move forward with Yellowknife. We are also exploring the possibility of putting it in other communities and regions. Only recently the Dehcho Health and Social Services Authority has approached us with an indication that they would be interested in doing midwifery services there. We are working with them to see when we might be able to roll that out. We do have a midwifery coordinator position within the

department that actually helps us do a significant amount of that work. That position, unfortunately, is currently vacant. We are out recruiting for that position today. We are hoping to have that position filled by December, which will help us continue to roll this work forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

I guess people are anxious to have this program in all their communities. I’m just wondering how many other communities – he indicated the Deh Cho – and what are the limitations in implementing this type of program in the communities.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Health and Social Services

We have gone to the Beaufort-Delta and started having some initial conversations with the people in the health centre there. They raised concerns that are unique to their own hospitals or health centres. We want to make sure that the Midwifery Program works in the regions and communities based on the protocols that already exist in those areas. That would have to be true coming into Yellowknife. We would have to make sure it works in the system and in the infrastructure that we have here.

The Deh Cho is different, once again, in that they don’t actually have a hospital. They have regional health centres, so we would have to modify the program to suit their needs. So every region, every community is going to take some modification to make sure, during the deliveries, the mothers and babies are safe and they have proper connections with physicians at all times. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As these programs go out, what kind of evaluation have you done? My biggest concern would be actually a funding requirement, if the programs are underfunded.

What evaluations are the department doing as they roll it out for the funding needs of these programs? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Minister of Health and Social Services

That’s part of the work that we’re doing in the design or the implementation in each of the different communities or regions where we deliver this service. We need to track the types of things that are happening and put in an evaluation framework so that we can make some evidence-based decisions moving forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are addressed to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. I want to return to one of my pet peeves, my pet issues, and that would be the implementation of 911 in the NWT or hopefully just Yellowknife to start.

The last time I asked some questions about 911, I believe I was advised by the Minister that there was a study in the works. They were doing another study based on a study or studies that had been done by the City of Yellowknife. So I’d like to ask the Minister initially if he can give me an update on that study.

Are we anywhere near close to completion? When might it be completed and will it be shared with Members and the public? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. McLeod.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll give the Member an answer to her study question as soon as I’ve had an opportunity to study the question and reply to it.

The working group has been doing a lot of work on this and it’s an issue that we’ve heard for a number of years in this Assembly. We’re anticipating the work to be done during this winter and we will, of course, be sharing that information with committee and this Legislative Assembly. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister. I understand, as well, that Municipal and Community Affairs did a survey of attendees at the NWT Association of Communities AGM in May, I guess it was, of 2014, earlier this year. I’d like to know from the Minister, if there are results from that survey, are those results public, would he commit to share them again with Members and the public? Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We did the survey during the last one. I’m not sure of the results yet, but I will follow up on that and once the results are known then we will share them with committee. I do know that the communities are fairly supportive of the feasibility study that we were doing on the implementation, or the partial implementation of 911. So again, once I have the results of that, then I will share them with the Members across and all Members of the Assembly. Thank you.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks to the Minister for that. I would hope that it would also be shared with the NWT Association of Community members and I suspect he meant that as well. They are public, after all.

The study is going to be done this winter. Winter is, unfortunately, eight months and I’m wondering if the Minister could give me a bit of a tighter definition of when this study might be done. Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you. Something I always tell the department, when Wendy is asking questions, or when Ms. Bisaro is asking questions, question number four is always when. Yeah, this is three, yeah. So anyway, my understanding is this winter is going to stretch right into July. So it’s going to be a long winter.

---Laughter

No, I will follow up and I will see how we’re moving along on this and if we happen to be done earlier, then of course I will be glad to share that information with the Member. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thanks, Mr. Speaker. My last question has to do with – it is kind of a timing question again – the city will have an upgraded and adequate dispatch system by quarter one of 2015 they’re telling us. So the technical capabilities will be in place for 911 for dispatch, the technical capabilities are there from NorthwesTel’s perspective, as far as I am told. So once this study is out, I’d like to ask the Minister how soon will we be able to move forward on this. The technical stuff is there, we simply need the will of the government. Thank you.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you. As long as I’ve been Minister of MACA we’ve had these questions, and I think one of the reasons that we had originally said at the time was our lack of telecommunication infrastructure across the Northwest Territories. I think we’ve seen in the last four or five years that has improved dramatically where you’re getting service in a lot of the small communities. One of the things we want to make sure of before we implement, and it could be a partial, I mean, that’s one of the options they’re looking at to implementation, we want to be sure that all our communities have the capability to respond to any such emergencies and we need to work with our partners out there. We’ve offered some training to first responders and we plan on offering more training to first responders, but again, this is an issue that we’ve been trying to find some resolution to. Again, I will work with the Members across and get some information off to the Members. Thank you very much.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the spring this year the Minister of Human Resources

had conveyed to Members that there were just over 1,200 vacancies on the books. The Finance Minister had said on the record that they were actively pursuing half of those, and that was 571 jobs. On further drilling down on those books there were 800 vacancies, and may I remind this government we have a 3.4 percent unemployment rate in Yellowknife, but we also have more than 30 percent unemployment rate in the communities. We need these jobs, they’re critical.

So let’s first start off from the Minister of Human Resources to find out what the state of affairs are for job opportunities available to Northerners. How many jobs, if I went to look today, will I find being posted in one form or another that Northerners can apply for? Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The Minister of Human Resources, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Our PeopleSoft is essentially a snapshot, but the numbers are fairly static throughout the year. So at the point when we did the last print off on PeopleSoft, the last time it was able to give us our semi-annual information, we had 244 jobs that the government was pursuing to fill and 281 jobs that were scheduled to be filled within a short time after that. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

I didn’t have a chance to write those numbers down, but if we put them together they sound like about 500 jobs.

Why are there only 70 jobs being advertised on our public website? Is this government not interested in hiring people to ensure that they can feed and take care of their families?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you. Not all of those jobs are advertised at the same time, but they are in the process at some stage. Some of them could be at the point when the departments are putting together the information needed to go to advertisement. Some will be in advertisement. Some will be in the interview process and some will be at the offer stage and some could be at the appeal stage. So, this is a flow through. So, if 70 jobs are advertised at one point, I would say that’s a sufficient number to correlate with the numbers I’d given the Member earlier. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

We have just under 5,000 people employed in the Northwest Territories with the GNWT. We know that it’s a typical figure, 15 percent vacancy at any one time. The Minister only talks about the back end of the employment process. At the front end of the employment process is the same amount of people coming in as going out. So we have a constant number of about 700 or more vacancies in the Government of the Northwest Territories at any one time, but yet we only have 10 percent on the webpage being advertised.

Let’s get to new results and find out where we’re going with this problem. What did the Minister learn and how many new Northerners did we hire at these expensive job fairs when we’re not even advertising them here? He says we don’t advertise them all. Well, who are they for? Who? You know?

Let’s find out how useful these job fairs have been hiring people to bring them north, because I can tell you the stats say we’re losing people, not gaining them.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you. I didn’t indicate that we weren’t advertising the majority of them. We are advertising the majority of the jobs. There are some jobs that do go through other methods. That’s true that people are able to secure positions that are not necessarily at the advertisement stage. Sometimes an individual could be getting a position through transfer assignment. Sometimes the department, after a couple of attempts and failure to fill the position do go to a casual position and fill with a casual position. Sometimes there is a contractor filling the position. So they are at various stages, but essentially I guess a good number to look at is anywhere in the 500s that are turning over each time. Of that, about just 300-plus or so require university degrees.

What we do know is that the majority of individuals in the Northwest Territories that are available in the workforce, people with university degrees, 98 percent of people with university degrees in the Northwest Territories have jobs. So when we’re looking to fill 300-some-odd positions, university degrees are very difficult to get that type of workforce out of the Northwest Territories. So what we’re trying to do is develop strategies that’ll allow us to hire people into what we consider hard-to-fill positions, university degrees, in the South to also help with bringing people north and then trying to do a campaign with the positions where required college, trades, high school or less in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary. Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said, we know in the books we’ve had at least 1,100 or more vacancies because of PeopleSoft. The Human Resources Minister has just mentioned, you know, well now we’re maybe talking about 500 or more. Fifteen percent, as I said, is close to 800 job vacancies here in the Northwest Territories.

The fact is, unemployment rates continue to rise and the only thing that brings unemployment rates down is people give up looking for work. Not employment rates have risen; unemployment rates have dropped strictly because they have just given up.

So how do we fix the population decrease? I need to hear an answer from this Minister, and I’ll ask again, how have the results been and what have they delivered on these southern job fairs, because if they were a great source of hiring new people, our population numbers wouldn’t be dropping.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

We recognize that the population in the Northwest Territories has dropped, but in the GNWT, from the last time we were able to print the PeopleSoft report, which was October 2013, and the next time we were able to print the PeopleSoft report, April 2014, we had a decrease in the overall vacancy rate.

The Member is right; the overall vacancy rate back then was 1,150. I gave various reasons as to where those positions lagged, but that number has gone down to 1,031 at this point. So we have decreased that number by approximately 120 persons and that vacancy rate number. Now, that 1,030 are spread out through the various categories of recruitment, like I indicated, positions being filled by contractors, casuals, in-active positions and so on. So there’s a spectrum of positions in the GNWT that would be considered vacant. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. For some time, I’ve been asking the various governments over the period of time as an MLA, and I’ll ask the Minister this question pertaining to the Department of Health and Social Services. The Stanton Hospital and other health facilities have a high population of Aboriginal people. I’ve been asking people within the positions of government, how can you get the Aboriginal foods into the hospitals, for example. What’s happened? Can we get our country foods into the hospitals in the Northwest Territories?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister of Health, Mr. Abernethy.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member as well as other Members have actually asked this question before. Following up from those requests for information and the desire to have more traditional foods in our facilities, which we agree is an incredibly important thing to do, our traditional foods help to promote healing, healthy eating and all those types of things. So the Department of Health and Social Services is currently doing some research and developing an action plan to improve the availability of traditional foods within our facilities.

The Traditional Foods and Facilities Action Plan and Recommendations Report, we’re hoping to

have that completed in January 2015 so that we can bring it to the Standing Committee on Social Programs for discussion.

The types of things that we want to see, or that you will see in that report, are some successes and lessons learned in other jurisdictions such as Alaska, Whitehorse and as well as Alberta. We’re also looking at new specifications regarding traditional food use, access to traditional food and costs of traditional foods and the use of federally inspected traditional foods. So there are lots of different options we’re exploring and current policies that some facilities already have. We’re hoping to bring all that information together in January and sharing it with committee so that we can move forward to find ways to provide more traditional food within our facilities throughout the Northwest Territories.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I certainly want to wish the best of luck to this Minister, because in my tenure as an MLA I have been pushing this issue. There has been so much bureaucratic red tape, goobledy gah, that it doesn’t make sense. The people in my communities grew up on the traditional foods, they are in the hospital, what is so simple to boil fish, moose head and give it to them? They grew up on it, but we have all this red tape. The Minister is now going out and saying we’re going to do a review. I have been at this for 11 years, and our people are dying and they want their food in the hospital. Why can’t we do such a simple thing as the Government of the Northwest Territories bring the traditional foods into the hospital and serve them, because 65 percent of our patients are Aboriginal people and a high percentage of people who grew up on the land with this food. Let’s do the right thing; it’s a simple thing. I want to see action from this Minister.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, in order to provide the traditional foods in any of our facilities, we must have policies on how to secure, prepare and serve the traditional foods. We already are providing traditional foods in a number of our communities in a number of our facilities. For instance, at Jimmy Erasmus Seniors Home they serve traditional foods and they have a policy. The Inuvik long-term care prepares traditional food within the unit itself. The Avens has a policy for the preparation and serving of traditional food. The challenge there is that they have a private contractor providing food, so we may not be getting it as often as we would like. Stanton Territorial Health Authority also has a four-week rotational traditional foods menu, so they bring things in on Friday. I understand that the Member is saying that is not enough, we need to do more. The Northern Lights Elders Facility in Fort Smith regularly serves traditional foods. So we are providing traditional foods in a number of our communities.

I hear the Member loud and clear, we need to do more, which is why we are working on the Traditional Foods and Facilities Action Plan, which I am going to bring to you and committee after discussion on how we move forward.

But this isn’t without its barriers. Providing traditional food does have some challenges, and some of the challenges that we have experienced today are basically the availability of regional foods, the distance from local foods, the ability to prepare foods in a traditional way, harvesting costs and access to the equipment, and food services companies using only federally inspected food. So there are challenges. We are working through those. We will be coming back to committee, and I am looking forward to having further discussion as we move forward and provide traditional foods to the residents of the Northwest Territories within our facilities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

I look forward to some action here. It is very simple. The fall hunt just finished. Ask the communities, a lot of moose, caribou and fish. It’s very simple. We need it in Stanton. They are doing it in the regions; they are doing it in the communities. Ask the communities. Break through the red tape. We need moose meat. We need people to have their traditional foods in the hospitals. These are the very people that grew up on that.

Why are we making it so complicated? It is a crying shame. This government here is going to do another study. This is my third Assembly. It’s so difficult to put traditional foods in Stanton Hospital, but we can do other things so fast, but with the average of people in the…(inaudible)…it’s difficult. Why do you make it complicated for us? I appreciate the little bit of taste that we’re getting, but I’m speaking for the elders, the people who want boiled fish, want fish heads, want boiled meat, they want that. They don’t want cabbage because they say it tastes like paper. We are dealing with real people here.

I will ask the Minister again to put enough effort, to put some elbow grease behind this motion and this action plan and do it before we close this Assembly when the writ is dropped. That’s what I would like to see.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I have already indicated to the Member, we are going to have a Traditional Foods Facilities Action Plan and Recommendations, January 2015, for review by Regular Members and consideration so that we can move forward and do exactly what the Member is asking us to do. January 15th is well before the writ drops in the 17th Legislative Assembly.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Again – and other Members can contest this – we have seen a lot of action plans. Action plans are sometimes five, 10, 20 years. I am asking this one here for the sake of the people in the small communities, when they come to Stanton Hospital that they can have the traditional foods served to them, not once a week. Residential school days are over. We want them to have it every day. I want to ask the Minister to put some muscle behind the action plan to say this is what we’re going to do: every day of the week we’ll have some traditional food served to our people. If you need some help, we have a lot of people here that can help the Minister.

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Mr. Speaker, this is something that is important, I clearly hear the Member. I have heard it from other Members, and we are looking forward to bringing the action plan forward and getting their weight behind the action plan so that we can make some changes in traditional food provisions in the Northwest Territories.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to continue with my questions to the Minister of Human Resources. There was a fair bit of information that he left on the table. I am not sure if he just felt bad that he gave me the original information of PeopleSoft and felt that, boy, we have to stop giving this guy information so let’s just ignore stuff so hopefully he will go away.

I asked, repeatedly, the details of the job fair money and the results, so let’s get to the bottom line here. What were the results of the southern job fairs and what did it cost the people of the Northwest Territories?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister of Human Resources, Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I don’t have the costs with me, but we collected approximately 700 resumes and were able to hire five people. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Human Resources does not know the cost, and that is a bit of a surprise. I can’t ask the same question because he is going to give me the same answer.

Where did those five people go and what type of positions did we employ people that we had to go to the South and only find five people out of 700 resumes?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mr. Speaker, this was a job fair that occurred in Ottawa that was a bit controversial the last time we were in the Assembly.

I got the information and looked at it, and the one thing I don’t have but could present to the Member no problem, or to the House, would be the cost of that. That’s not an issue. We can determine the cost of that fairly simply.

What I am saying is that we were able to get the five positions. Exactly where those five individuals came to work, I don’t know. My guess is, a 50 percent guess would be that they probably ended up in Yellowknife because the vacancy rate in the GNWT is split 52 percent Yellowknife and 48 percent outside of Yellowknife. Thank you.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, while the Department of Human Resources was sorting through those 700 resumes, while they found time in some form or fashion to hire five people, were any of those five people that they hired direct appointments? I want to know the credentials of these types of appointments and how he got them. Were they direct appointments or were they true competitions where Northerners could have applied for and at the end of the day the government wasted probably a lot of money on this? Thank you.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

I do not believe that these were direct appointments. Usually we fill direct appointments for a few reasons, one being that it’s a development opportunity for a person that has a priority 1 status in the government. We also offer those types of development opportunities to individuals that have priority 2 status in the Northwest Territories.

When we direct appoint somebody that has a priority 3 status, which I would assume all of these five people have, then it would be a position that we were unable to fill. Perhaps a scenario could be that the job was advertised two or three times without success. So if we’re able to find someone that fits the credentials from the South, it is possible that the individual could go through a direct appointment. That’s possible, but I believe that these individuals went through our job bank and the talent pool, applied on jobs that they saw were available at the time and got those through a competitive process.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Robert Hawkins

Robert Hawkins Yellowknife Centre

Mr. Speaker, we know from the Minister’s own numbers that we have well over 500 vacancies. That’s under my estimate, but it’s fine, we’ll use that one. We know that the government had received 700 resumes, as the Minister has clearly articulated, and the Minister clearly said here today before this House, they found five people out of 700 resumes, which begs the question why weren’t we making a bigger concerted effort from his department when we know over 500 vacancies exist on the ground.

Why aren’t we turning these into some type of training positions? We know immediately that would

deliver solid results in the communities where the employment rate is over 30 percent. We know it would have a huge impact on people who are already here. It means our government wouldn’t be wasting time flying across the country and doing whatever they’re doing and only getting five people.

At the end of the day, why weren’t we finding better ways to hire Northerners who have invested their lives, their families and their future here?

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

That’s exactly what we intend to do. We have various categories, like I indicated, positions that require university degrees as an example, and positions that require trades, a position that requires college, as an example. We are developing plans in Human Resources to start looking at the various job categories, so we’d look at the job categories and determine how we can best fill those job categories.

I’m having a lot of discussions with the deputy of HR and we in turn are trying to put a plan together, are putting a plan together, not trying, and then I intend to discuss each of these plans with the Ministers. That is going to be a part of my mandate moving forward with the intent of filling the jobs that have been vacant for a long time and turning the casuals into jobs that people can hold in the Northwest Territories. Also, we’re hoping that once we’re able to achieve filling these positions that we are able to increase the population in the Northwest Territories and prevent the population from decreasing all the time.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The time for oral questions has expired. Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns to written questions. Item 10, replies to opening address. Item 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item 13, reports of committees on the review of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. The Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Ramsay.

David Ramsay

David Ramsay Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document, entitled “Northwest Territories Mineral Development Strategy GNWT Implementation Plan, 2014-15.”

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to table the following three documents, entitled “Northwest Territories Species at Risk Committee Annual Report, 2013-2014;” “Conference of Management Authorities Species at Risk Annual Report, 2013-2014;” and “Northwest Territories Cumulative Impact Monitoring Program 2013-2014 Annual Report.”

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Item 15, notices of motion. Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Thursday, October 23, 2014, I will move the following motion: Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Monfwi, that this Legislative Assembly, by virtue of Section 5 of the Elections and Plebiscites Act, recommends to the Commissioner the appointment of Ms. Nicole Latour of Yellowknife as Chief Electoral Officer for the Northwest Territories for a term of four years commencing November 1, 2014.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Bouchard.

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Thursday, October 23, 2014, I will move the following motion: Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Monfwi, that the following individuals be appointed by the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories to the Human Rights Commission of the Northwest Territories effective November 3, 2014:

Mr. Yacob Adams of Yellowknife, for a term of four years; and

Ms. Gerri Sharpe of Yellowknife, for a term of four years.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Mr. Blake.

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Thursday, October 23, 2014, I will move the following motion: Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Monfwi, that the following persons be recommended to the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories for appointment as members of the Human Rights Adjudication Panel effective November 3, 2014, for a term of four years:

Ms. Kerry Penney of Yellowknife, and

Mr. Colin Baile of Yellowknife.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Mr. Yakeleya.

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Thursday, October 23, 2014, I will move the following motion: Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Thebacha, that, notwithstanding Rule 4, when this House adjourns on Thursday, October 23, 2014, it shall be adjourned until Monday, October 27, 2014.

And further, that any time prior to October 27, 2014, if the Speaker is satisfied, after consultation with the Executive Council and Members of the Legislative Assembly, that the public interest requires that the House should meet at an earlier time during adjournment, the Speaker may give notice and thereupon the House shall meet at a time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as it has been duly adjourned to that time.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 115-17(5), Northwest Territories Capital Estimates 2015-2016, NWT Housing Corporation, Municipal and Community Affairs, Public Works and Services, Health and Social Services, with Mr. Dolynny in the chair.

Before we do that, colleagues, by the authority given to me as Speaker by Motion 10-17(5), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider business before the House.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We wish to consider Tabled Document 115-17(5), Northwest Territories Capital Estimates 2015-2016.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Okay. Committee, we’ll commence after a short break.

---SHORT RECESS

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, committee. I will call Committee of the Whole back to order. We’ve agreed to continue with the NWT Housing Corporation. I will ask the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation if he has any witnesses to bring into the House.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you. Committee agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort our guests into the House.

Thank you. Minister McLeod, could you please introduce your guests for us?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To my right I have Mr. David Stewart, president of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation; to my left I have Mr. Jeff Anderson, vice-president of finance and infrastructure of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Minister. Is it agreed that we will proceed with general comments for the NWT Housing Corporation? Agreed? First I have on my list Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have two comments. There’s a huge demand in smaller communities. I represent Fort McPherson, Aklavik and Tsiigehtchic. First off I’d like to commend the department, which has done a pretty good job over the years replacing a lot of the older units. As I go through the communities I represent, there are new places, up and coming new places. In Aklavik at the moment, we have a new Joe Greenland Centre going up and plans next year for a similar type unit in FortMcPherson. The community is very excited for this.

The big demand here is new units. As the community members are moving back from going

to school or working in other communities, there’s a big shortage of housing units, especially in Aklavik. We have a waiting list of up to two years that some people have been waiting and some even longer. So there’s a big demand for multiplex units and duplex units that’s needed in the community. I would like to ask the Minister what the plans are moving forward to fill this demand.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We try to ensure that all our communities are adequately housed. I think if you look in the business plans that we’re debating today, you’ll see for 2015-16, we’ve got two replacement public housing units for Aklavik as well as we have some major M and I’s. Part of the reason for the waiting list in the community – and I’m not sure about the exact waiting list in Aklavik, I think it’s about 22 people who are on the waiting list – we recognize that the demand is out there for more multiplex units and more units for singles. That’s the direction I think we’re starting to go in. We have a lot of older detached units that are costing us a lot to maintain and they are not as in demand as they used to be. With replacement units, I think you’ll find we are replacing a lot of the older five-bedroom units that there really is no more demand for. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

As I mentioned earlier, there are plans for an elders complex in Fort McPherson. I know they are planning on setting up a solar panel unit for this building. I wonder if there’s any other plan to tie in biomass as well.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We appreciate the Member’s comments before about noticing a lot of the newer units going up in the communities. We appreciate that and it’s a good idea for some of the work that we’re trying to do in addressing some of the issues with housing.

The solar panels, we’re looking forward to seeing how they work. Biomass is not one that is slated for these particular projects, but it is something that we are exploring when we are putting up our other infrastructure. We’ll be looking at that. Of course, with the declining CMHC funding, we’ll have to find ways to try and cut back on our expenses and this seems to be the way to go. We are excited about the possibility of solar panels in Aklavik and I think in Fort McPherson that’s the plan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Just one more question. In Tsiigehtchic we have a unit that caught on fire I believe almost a year ago now. What are the plans for the department moving forward? Are they going to retrofit it or are they going to tear it down and build a new one? What are the plans moving forward? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

I believe that was a HELP unit. I don’t think it was a public housing unit. So we’ll have to go in there and if it’s one of our units, we’ll have to take the steps we need to retrofit the unit. I’ll follow up on that and share the information I gather with the Member.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Just to clarify, that was a housing unit, single dwelling, two single dwelling units, and a duplex. That’s good news. I’ll wait to hear for an update. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Blake. That was more of a comment, so I’ll go to my next individual. I have Mr. Yakeleya, followed by Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I, along with Mr. Blake, have a great need for units in our communities. I have had conversations earlier with the Housing Minister in the House and in meetings about the empty units in Fort Good Hope. I know Mr. McLeod talked about the liabilities and the assessments of these empty units and if they could be either turned over to the community or looked at to see if they could be released to the community because there are a lot of houses in Fort Good Hope boarded up with plywood on the windows and doors. I know the community has a great demand for these units that are needed for the people who need housing in that community.

Also, just recently an elder’s house burned just a couple of days ago, yesterday I believe, and now the community is trying to find a unit for him. This particular elder is very independent, very proud, and it would be nice to look at some of these types of units that can be made available for that elderly person in Fort Good Hope and also for that young man and his wife in Colville Lake. Now they have to go look at other places to bunk up for this fall and winter. Could they not have a place for these types of situations that are unforeseen and unexpected?

I want to ask the Minister how far he has gone in regard to looking at these empty units in Fort Good Hope. I know the land corporation is anxiously waiting to see if these units can be turned over to them so that they can do some of their own work and get some of the units open for their membership and also for that young couple in Colville Lake to be on the priority list.

At the same time, I’m looking forward to seeing the winter road so supplies can be driven into Fort Good Hope for their multiplex unit, I think it’s a seniors unit that for some reason was delayed, and hopefully this year it can be built this summer in Fort Good Hope. I do want to say that I look forward to the releasing and the discussion of the upcoming 2014 Community Survey Report and some changes that may be coming because of the report. I hope it’s good news from the 2009 Community Survey Report.

The Minister has done quite well, I’ve got to say to the staff, because of the declining of the federal funding. That means that we as government have to take on some of these additional responsibilities because of the cutbacks the federal government is giving to us.

I’m looking for some ways that we can have some of these units coming to our community. They will still be stick built. Some of the units that we’re now getting are prefab and they’re quicker units coming into our communities for housing for our people, especially in Tulita. I know in Deline they are looking forward to their units being built and retrofitted there.

I want to ask the Minister to reply on some of the points that I’ve just outlined here as to the housing situation and if there is any type of plans to look at apprenticeships within the housing association with our local staff, people in the communities. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Member’s comments about the Housing Corp has done quite well. We always look for some positive feedback and we appreciate that.

As far as the empty units in Fort Good Hope, we have had some preliminary discussions with the community and private individuals on those units. The one thing we want to make sure of is that we do our assessments to make sure they’re free from any hazardous type of material before we put them out, and when we do put them out, our preference would be to go to a full public process where everybody has an opportunity to access these units. So I think we’ve done our assessments, and again, once we put these units out we’ll make sure that everybody has equal access to putting a bid in on them and we’re open to selling some of these units. We want to make sure that we’re not selling units that may have potential liabilities. So, that work is just being completed and then we look to have them out soon.

The apprentices, we have 10 apprentices right now and we’re looking at options of maybe adding more in the future because we’ve been encouraged by the results of the apprentices that we have had in the communities. Again, I think it’s through the support of the committee that we report to that we’ve been able to undertake a lot of these initiatives.

I think the Member was speaking to the folks in Colville Lake. I’m not sure what their options are in Colville Lake, if it was a homeownership unit that they were staying in, then that may change the dynamics. I’m not sure if we have any units in the community that are readily available. So we have to look at, you know, it’s unfortunate that when these

situations happen where someone’s private house burns down and without the proper coverage it makes it difficult on them and then Housing is asked to step in and provide accommodations. I’m sure we would consider assisting where we can. Again, we have to ensure that, you know, we have a number of people that are waiting for units, and we have to look at every situation on a case-by-case basis.

I believe I touched on most of the Member’s points, and if I didn’t, I apologize and I’m sure he’ll remind me. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

I want to ask the Minister, given the move to more ownership with the homeowners and purchasing a home, has the corporation looked at one- or two-bedroom units that are simple, that are very small? There’s an advertisement in the Edmonton Sun, a full-page ad on a development called Knotty Pine, I believe. They offer so much for a unit, there’s a couple of units. We thought that would be something that for the homeowners themselves to purchase through a housing program or pilot program.

There are a lot of individuals that are bachelors and a lot of individuals are also staying with their family members. There are also young families just wanting to get their own places. Is this something that the Housing Corp has looked at? Is it something that is feasible in the North or is it something we could look at that would build skill and provide some value to the homeowners to know what it’s like to have a house and have these units in our community, or just a pilot project? I’m looking at this concept. That’s just a discussion that we can float around to look at.

I’m a very big advocate for Housing to get more apprenticeships into the communities. The economy doesn’t really quite call for having contractors readily available, and if they are they’re quite busy. If they are there they also have other jobs, so a lot of people have to wait. Sometimes the materials and supplies are not always readily available and I know that the Housing Corporation, the housing associations, they do the best that they can to make sure that their supplies are in stock for their own public housing units, and if they have other additional surplus parts in supply, they could sell them to the homeowners for repairs. It becomes very challenging sometimes because the cost of bringing in some of these household supplies, it’s just out of this world. I say that personally because I bought something for the washrooms and paid double the price to install and had to pay a plumber to bring it in and install it for me, so it was close to $1,000. If you look at Yellowknife, it’s one-third of that cost. So those are some of the simple things that could help private homeowners. I ask the Minister if he could continue

to research and see if this is something that we could see in the 17th . Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thirty-seven thousand five hundred dollars is what those packages cost, I’ve seen the ad. We’re open to just about anything as long as they meet our standards, and you know, we’ll consider just about any option that’s out there. I think, if anything, the corporation has proven in the last little while that they’re fairly flexible and everything’s not written in stone as it was in the past. So, we’re fairly flexible and we want to work with homeowners. Again, there are options for them to purchase existing homes if they’re approved for our homeownership program. So we want to work with them. We’ve had some discussions as to if someone is paying for their own home, we may give them more options that they can choose from, kind of like a catalogue of different options. If they’re paying for it, then they should have that option.

One of the challenges we face in the North, especially in a lot of the smaller communities where materials aren’t readily available, and I used to think that we were never set up to account for the sale of material to individuals in the community; however, that’s something that we can have a look at to try to make some material available. Of course, we don’t want it affecting our ability of our LHO to do their work, but if there are opportunities there to make some small stuff available, then I think we would have to have a look at that because, as you said, Mr. Yakeleya, some small communities are challenged to get in particular parts and they are very costly. So if we can assist that way, then we’ll look at maybe setting something up to do that.

I can warn everybody, let everybody know right now, there’s going to be no charge account set up. It’s got to be cash on delivery. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Next I have on the list for general comments is Mr. Menicoche, followed by Mr. Dolynny. Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. We have an ambitious plan here for delivery into our small communities, and I just wanted to commend the Minister and the staff that working with the committee and trying to find an equal balance here. The biggest thing was about addressing devolution, or decentralization, getting jobs out to the community, and I think that the plan somewhat addresses that.

I don’t have too much to say specifically on the capital, but I’m more interested, if you’ll give me the leeway there, Mr. Chair, on the release of the latest housing needs survey and when that will be done.

As well, another thing that constituents have often been asking me is about the income threshold

level; I think it’s called SNIP. Now when they’re applying for the affordable housing units, some constituents find themselves in double income situations where their household income is above the threshold limit, and I’ve always felt, and I’ve raised this to the Minister before, that those are the clients that we want to be in these housing units. They’re the ones that would be able to consistently make the mortgage payments; they are the ones that won’t be in an affordability situation.

I am just wondering if the department had a chance to review the income threshold limits when we are delivering our program, because I really feel that it will help. Sometimes they are in a small community, they are in an older house, but yet they cannot get access to the housing program to get themselves into a newer house, perhaps even freeing up the older house to other people in the community that want to try living on their own and start a home situation. So, just those couple of issues there, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We plan on having a briefing with committee, I think next week, on the latest findings and Community Needs Survey. So we are looking forward to having that discussion with them that I think is taking place next week. Again, we appreciate the Member’s comments on commending the corporation on the work that they are doing.

As far as the income threshold, when they are applying for the PATH program, the pathway to homeownership, we increased the threshold because we heard the concern that there were a lot of people that were just over SNIP and not being able to qualify for any more programs. It makes sense that if you are in a smaller community and if you have a couple of empty units there, you have somebody that might be just over SNIP. The pieces should fit and, of course, they should have the ability to maintain the unit, and that is one of the big things that we look at, is their ability to maintain the unit. We have run into too many cases in the past where we have put people in units that were just below SNIP and then they find out that they couldn’t afford it. That is something that we’re changing.

On the CARE side of it, the homeownership repair, if you have high income earners that are living in their own house, and we really haven’t raised the core need income threshold for that because it is a repair program. If they are higher income earners, then they should have the ability to do some of the work. You know, if you do it in stages and that, then it doesn’t get to a point where they have to apply for housing for a $92,000 CARE package to fix up their house. We have had pretty good success with that. Our CARE numbers are actually going down. The

people who are subscribing to CARE are actually going down.

But on the homeownership side, that is one that we want to concentrate on and ensure that we have folks that are just getting started and maybe making a little bit more. Those are the people that we would like to target and get them into homeownership because we feel that they will be successful clients. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Next I have Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to welcome the Minister of the Department here today. As I said in some of my past comments when we have been doing either operational budgets or now capital budgets, and it’s hard sometimes to get these types of comments out of the Member for Range Lake, but I do appreciate where this department has been going. There has been a progression of success. There has been a transparency of information to the committee, which on all accounts, when we ask, is delivered on time and with the proper detail. So I applaud the Minister, I applaud the Housing Corp for really moving up, I believe, true to their word in wanting to do a very collaborative and consensus style approach. First and foremost I was going to make sure I echo those words.

I am very pleased to see that the current budget for capital has a number of new units in the seniors and caretaker area. It is important to me because I have been trying to raise the awareness. We have a number of new reports out there, you know, Our Elders: Our Communities, Aging in Place, the Continuing Care. We all know that we are going to be faced, in the very near future, with areas of concern with enough facilities for our seniors and our elders.

My first general question, seeing the fact that I know Fort McPherson here seems to be a benefactor as well as Whati, and I think there is another small unit in Tuktoyaktuk, how does the department come up with their strategy and framework for dealing with literally the large investment that will probably be required to deal with our aging senior population when it comes to infrastructure of facilities? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will speak to the first part of the Member’s comments and then I am going to turn it over to Mr. Stewart to speak about this strategy that they use to come up with the allocation.

Again, we appreciate the Member’s comment on the direction this department has been going and his applause for this department. Part of the reason that we’re able to do a lot of the initiatives that we

have is because of our relationship with committee. We try to keep them up to date on a lot of the initiatives that we are bringing forward; we seek their support and their input. I think it goes a long way into a smooth transition into some of the work that we’re doing. So we appreciate the comments from the Member.

I will turn it over to Mr. Stewart to speak on the strategy we use to come up with the allocations of seniors units.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chair. When we first started planning for the new seniors complexes in the smaller communities, we really looked at a couple of different variables. Of course, we looked at the seniors population themselves by community and looked at where the growth is in that area.

We have got about 280 or so targeted public housing units for seniors now, so we looked at which communities those are in and looked for communities that may be underserved in terms of the existing independent living facilities that are targeted at seniors in those smaller communities. Through that we were able to see certain communities – Fort Good Hope, Fort McPherson, Whati and Fort Liard – where there weren’t targeted facilities that really stood out as communities where there was that immediate kind of need.

There are other communities, and certainly in public housing generally there are about 650 of our units that are occupied by seniors, but there certainly is growing demand, as the Member is well aware, in terms of the aging population. But that is sort of the factors that we looked at in the initial round to try to find the communities where that initial need was apparent that we could put these facilities. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Stewart. Mr. Dolynny.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the information, and of course, Members will continuously have those high level discussions with the department on that. I believe that this is a growing issue that will plague not only Members, we know that there is a decrease in CMHC funding that will also have an impact on decision-making.

Mr. Chair, if I could, I would like to just change my direction a bit about vacancy. It seems to be a bit of a hot topic where as Members we continuously hear the following units have been vacant, are always vacant and yet we are either building a new facility or we are doing a retrofit. I know this has a bit of an operational overtone, but the issue of where do we make those decisions from a capital perspective knowing full well that we are dealing with vacancy. Again, I will let the department talk about what their vacancy is currently. But I believe

it is a concern and an optical concern for a lot of residents, seeing our inventory maybe not being used and yet we are seeing overcrowding in many of our units in other situations. Again, more of a broader question, Mr. Chair.

How are we dealing with vacancy and how does that vacancy reflect the decision-making on where we are doing our retrofits or where we are putting our new units? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Vacancies play a large role in how we determine where we allocate our capital dollars. Obviously, you have got one community that has more vacancies and they can be vacant for a number of different reasons. I’m just trying to find the numbers here as to our vacancies across the Northwest Territories. Fifty public housing units that are vacant and available for occupancy, and again the local housing organization could be in the process of allocating them right now. We have approximately 135 units that are under repair, and once those are done they will be allocated.

The concern we get in a lot of the communities, and I have touched on it when I spoke to Mr. Yakeleya’s question before, was we have a lot of units that have outlived their usefulness. They are boarded up and we really don’t have any use for them. We try to work something out with the communities. We have a number that are slated for demolition, but then now with the HAZMAT requirements, that has added extra costs on. We had a fairly aggressive plan a few years ago, but we’re having to deal with the HAZMAT material. That has slowed us down a bit, but we still want to get that work done and have a lot of these units written off, demolished and removed, and then we can move forward from there. There are a number of different vacancies.

A few years ago we had 135 vacant HELP units, I think, across the Northwest Territories, but that was because the corporation had access to all that federal money. We were the only jurisdiction that matched it in the country and we put a number of units on the ground anticipating that we were going to get clients for them and realized, at the end of the day, that we overestimated our ability to get clients. So we converted a lot of these into public housing units; we rented some out to different professionals in the community. So we found a way to deal with all those vacancies, but there’s always going to be a vacancy rate. We have 50 units that are ready for occupancy and another 135 that are under repair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

I appreciate those vacancy statistics. It’s always good to keep current and I’m sure we’ll be asking those same questions when we do the operational budget here in the spring. The only advice I can give to the Minister and the

department is to, you know, we tend to always talk about our overcrowding problems in non-market communities, but I stress that even in market communities such as Yellowknife and some of the major centres, we do have overcrowding as well, so I’m hoping we don’t lose sight of some of the needs and designs of all communities moving forward. I know you do, I just want to reiterate that.

With the time remaining, I’d like to maybe combine two types of questions I have left and the Minister can answer accordingly. I see on the project list in infrastructure a lot of portable-type solar panel systems, which I’m strongly encouraged to see that, and I know you currently started up with a utility tracking system and monitoring energy. Maybe if you can give an update how effective are we seeing some of the preliminary numbers with respect to that and how these voltaic programs are going to aid in achieving whatever goals you have.

Number two is we know that there are always a number of deferred versus carry-over projects from one year to the next, and it would be nice to see how much of the projects from last year we are still working on and how much of that was carried forward into this fiscal budget.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Deferred and carried over, it’s about $8 million, and we do have a chart with all of the projects that are on the ground right now. I think we’re at about 85 percent for this fiscal year. I saw the figure 85 percent. If it’s more, I’ll get the right number and remind the Member about it later, but I’m pretty sure we’re at about 85 percent right now.

The photovoltaic, we’re looking forward to the savings that it’s going to potentially bring the corporation. Again, we have to find innovative ways to deal with a lot of the… Ninety-six percent of our projects are out this year, so I was a little bit off by saying 85; it’s 96 percent. That was 96 percent. You know, 96 percent. We recently did a seniors home in Hay River and that was just completed, so we haven’t had any results from that.

The stats on the unit up in Inuvik, I think is what the Member was referring to. We’ll have to pull the stats out, unless Mr. Stewart knows them off hand, but we’ll have to pull the stats out and share them with committee. I know tracking it is available online, but I’ll pull the stats out and I’ll share it with the Member in committee.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister. Committee, we’re doing general comments on the NWT Housing Corporation. Next I have Mr. Nadli, followed by Mr. Moses.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a couple of comments in terms of the Housing Corporation and affecting, of course, the whole area of housing and how it is that we meet the needs of families and individuals that aspire to either own their own

homes or else rent through the Public Housing Program initiatives.

One of the things that I see that seems to be fairly common is just the trend towards the public rental system. In some respects, the reality of living in the communities where you have a 40 to 50 percent rate of unemployment, opportunities are very few and far between, at least trying to work with people so that they can own their own homes, and it’s very challenging. I think most families that are starting out want to own their own homes but the challenges that they face in terms of employment opportunities, and unless you have major industrious sort of development projects perhaps close to the community, those opportunities will not exist.

Some other comments are there has been very little new construction of new houses, especially detached family units. It’s very clear that very few new houses are being constructed. At the same time, people in the communities, when they try to qualify for a program to get a job, they have to ensure that they don’t make too much money and at the same that they don’t make too little money. Their income has to be just right for them to qualify. One example is the homeownership program. I wanted to know if the department is looking at this reality and seeing if there’s an ongoing effort to ensure that yes, indeed, the department is trying to meet the needs of young families that want to own their own homes. They’re quite capable of working and that the Housing Corporation is providing those opportunities. I wanted to know if the department is making that extra effort to ensure that we do in fact try to meet the needs of people so that they can own their own homes.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think our track record has proven that we do try to assist people in getting into their own home, and I think it’s one of the reasons that we’re in a situation now where our focus has to be on more multi-unit type configurations for a lot of younger people. A lot of the families that are able to get into homeownership, I think in the last… Since homeownership started way back in the SHAG and HAP house days, I think we’ve got about 2,700 units that we help families get into through our homeownership program. We’ve raised our income threshold. On the access to homeownership we’ve raised our income threshold to give more people an opportunity to get in.

There’s always going to be a need for social housing. Ideally, we’d like to see someone that goes through the social housing situation because they don’t have a job or they can’t get a house and then if their financial situation improves or their prospects improve, then ideally we’d like to see

them graduate into our homeownership program. We’ve seen that a number of times in the past.

At the same time, I have to caution that we need to ensure that people we put into homeownership are able to maintain it. We’ve run into a number of cases where folks have gotten into homeownership, it was a little bit more than they had anticipated, and they’ve quit claimed the house and actually turned them back over to the corporation and moved back into public housing. We want to make sure that our clients are set up for success and we don’t set them up for failure. That’s one of the reasons we’re so concerned about the income threshold, because we want to make sure that they’re able to pay for the upkeep and maintenance of the house. That’s why we ran the Homeownership Entry Level Program, the HELP program. That gives them a window of about two years to determine whether they think that homeownership is for them, and if it’s not, then after two years they can turn it back over to the corporation and go back into public housing. Or if they determine they want to be a homeowner, then I believe there’s a $10,000 incentive that we give them. So we’re trying to set them up to take advantage of the programs that we offer.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

It’s very encouraging to see that the system does indeed respond to the need of people who want to aspire to own their own homes.

My next point is this has been an ongoing matter for some time. I am hoping there would be a resolution of some sort in terms of trying to sort out through the jurisdictional issues. I’m speaking in particular to the Hay River Reserve. They are a reserve within the Northwest Territories and there are houses on the reserve that number about five and there is a real housing need. The jurisdictional issues have to be sorted out in terms of land tenure and the maintenance of those units and whether it could be financed by individuals. Of course, the involvement of the GNWT through the Housing Corporation is a matter that needs to be resolved. It’s been ongoing and I’m hoping the Minister and the department will at least try to come to a point where the matter can be addressed and build on some of the common interests of the people. We want to ensure that people have houses and aren’t homeless. At the same time, we need a good system so that housing can be available for people on the reserve. I just wanted to check on the status. I understand there have been some discussions and wonder if that’s going to come to a resolution at some point. Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

This issue with the Hay River Reserve has been ongoing for some time. We’ve been trying to find some resolution. We’ve been working on trying to get leases to those properties so we can make them available through some of our programs. I think we worked out an arrangement with the Hay River Reserve and we’re

happy with the lease. I believe they are okay with it. We’re just waiting to hear back from the AANDC Minister because, apparently, it’s they’re reserve, they had to go through the AANDC Minister, so we’re just waiting to hear back. If we don’t hear back soon, then through what channels are available to us, we may have to send the federal folks a note saying we’d like to get some resolution to this because this has been going on as long as I’ve had the Housing portfolio. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Nadli

Michael Nadli Deh Cho

Maybe I will try to combine these two final points into one so I don’t take up too much time. The other point I wanted to be considered by the Housing Corporation is the accessibility of disabled persons. Of course, the social housing and public units sometimes do occupy and they have chronic conditions, whether it’s arthritis and they have to walk up the stairs or sometimes they are in a wheelchair. Sometimes they are restricted in terms of going up the stairs or restricted in terms of their mobility from their room to the bathroom to the kitchen. I just want to understand what steps the Housing Corporation is ensuring that that is being addressed, so that disabled persons at least have accessibility to their units in a very comfortable way.

The last point is in terms of seniors housing. Seniors, for the most part, are on a fixed income. They’ve been living in units that are very old, maybe 30 or 40 years old. They’ve raised their kids in there and their kids have moved on, but they continue to pay rent. At some point, would the Housing Corporation consider perhaps, because of these older units, giving the responsibility of ownership to the seniors and consider the rent they have paid over the course of the years the equity? Mahsi.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

As far as the accessible units, through our CARE program, if we have seniors who are living in their own homes and have application, there might be some opportunities there to get that work done.

In our public housing units, I know in a few communities they have a couple of units that are earmarked for accessibility, and if they’re not and they realize that somebody needs an accessible unit, then I think the local housing authority would take the necessary steps to ensure they make the home as accessible as possible for the resident living in there.

We’ve heard on a number of occasions about seniors that are living in a three- or four-bedroom house and have raised their families there, they’ve been there 20 or 30 years and they’re paying right now, depending on what zone they are in, up to $80 or $90 a month and that’s all in. That’s everything included. If we were to turn those units over to them or sell them to the seniors that are in there, then they’re going to be responsible for their own utilities

which, depending on which community they’re in, could be quite substantial and we want to ensure that they have the ability to look after utilities before we consider selling them the unit.

Again, as I said before, Housing Corporation has proven that we are getting to be fairly flexible and are willing to work with anyone and everyone out there. My big concern and the discussion I have with the officials at the NWT Housing Corporation is we don’t want to put people in positions where it’s a hardship to them. We don’t want to put them in a position to fail. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Next I have Mr. Moses, followed by Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Before I get into some of the areas that a lot of Members have touched on, the department has come before committee and we’ve had a lot of good discussion there as well. Over the length of this Assembly, I want to applaud the department for all the good work that’s going on and good initiatives, changing policies and also looking at the infrastructure investments going into communities. Not only new units but there are a lot of retrofits. We are really fixing up some of the housing units that Members do hear concerns on. That’s good to hear.

Just looking at the project list, it’s great to see that it’s very diverse in terms that we are getting some kind of project going on in every community across the Northwest Territories. So it’s not focused in one area, but spreading the capital investments in the Northwest Territories. With that said, I know there are still places like bigger centres, like here in Yellowknife, who have long waiting lists for housing. Possibly a needs assessment needs to be done when we do our next capital budget in terms of seeing where we can start putting these units to address some of these needs that we’re seeing with our residents of the NWT.

Even moving further on that like maybe possibly a needs assessments in terms of transitional units, we do have a high homelessness issue in some of the communities, especially the regional centres and how we can address the hard to house. I’ve brought this up before, but I know at the Aurora Research Institute they are doing that one study of pilings and how the pilings are being developed, so that they freeze the ground and keep the permafrost frozen. Maybe the Housing Corporation has looked into that study or worked with the staff over at the research institute to see how we can incorporate that into the building of these new units, especially in the Beaufort-Delta region where we see a lot of the area with permafrost.

Another one that I know is pretty tough to do but we do have a lot of bachelor residents out there who also do require housing, and I know when we do build infrastructure, we want to focus on the family,

but these individuals who are bachelors or are single have a hard time finding units. I think they may sometimes end up on income assistance where they could possibly be getting some kind of housing help.

Another one was the elder-friendly units. I know that in some cases when we go out and build units, if we can develop some type of general development or any units that we build that there’s general planning for should this unit become available for an elder we want to make sure that these types of specs are put into the planning design. So if a family was not able to stay in the unit and with the increase in our senior population somebody might need a housing unit, but they might not be able to get into the unit because it might not be fit for them. So just something to think about as we’re building these units that we develop some type of general guidelines or general specs for each unit that should a senior or a senior couple want to go in there that it’s readily available and no retrofits need to be done in terms of moving into those positions. Like I said, it’s generally happening with the work that’s going on where we’re investing in the infrastructure throughout the Northwest Territories.

I guess another concern is we do have this one apartment building in Inuvik, a very old apartment building and I know it was on the list for retrofits, the Sydney Apartments. If there’s an update on them, that would be great to see where we’re moving in that area.

Those are just some general observations and some ideas and things that maybe the Housing Corp can look into as they’re investing into the communities. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Moses. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Again, we appreciate the Member’s comments on the work that the NWT Housing Corporation is doing, and his committee is actually the one that we report to, so we’ve had a lot of interaction with the Social Programs committee. We appreciate the comments.

The Member was talking about the units for seniors and people with disabilities. We have a visible design that we incorporate into all our new units now that we build. So that is there.

The bachelor units in Inuvik, those are actually being replaced. We have a contract that’s been let and work was supposed to be underway. So those are being replaced.

We have one pilot project, and the Member was talking about the hard to house. In some of the larger centres, some of the regional centres are a little more fortunate because they have groups and organizations in the community that give people an

option. But some of the small communities, there’s really no option there. We’ve tried a pilot program, and I think we’ve had three take us up on it right now. We still have one more that we’re hoping went out there, and that was for an initiative in the communities for a hard-to-house type of unit where we do a little bit of renovations and work with the local group to look over the house first. Of course, there will be some compensation for them to maintain the unit for us. So we have had three communities take us up on that and we still have, I think one more that’s available.

So we try to do what we can to address. Again, there’s a number of reasons that people are homeless. Addictions issues, obviously, is one of them. A lot of them have been evicted from the units that they’re in because of the addictions issues. So it’s a struggle to try and find a balance, but we try to find some pilot projects and we support others that give them a chance to get out of the situation they’re in and hopefully turn their life around and be able to get back into public housing.

Being involved in housing for as long as I have, I’ve seen it firsthand where folks have been given another chance and they’ve gotten it and run with it and done quite well. So if there’s any way that we can assist, it’s those options that we look at. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

I also just made a comment there in terms of with the Aurora Research Institute and the study that they’re doing with the pilings, and I just wanted to see if the department has looked into that research and whether it’s feasible and the work that’s been going on there in terms of building our units up in the Beaufort-Delta. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you. The pilings, and we’re always looking at new ways of building and putting buildings up. So if there’s an opportunity for us to take advantage of some of the new technology and new ways of doing things, then we have folks within the Housing Corporation that explore all these options and if they are feasible, then we apply it to some of the work that we do. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Anything further, Mr. Moses?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Alfred Moses

Alfred Moses Inuvik Boot Lake

No, nothing further. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you. Next I have Ms. Bisaro, followed by Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My comments are quite similar to those of my colleagues, but as I’ve said before, I think they bear repeating.

I too am pleased with the work that the Housing Corporation has done over the last number of years. There have been a number of changes that have been made. I like to think that the Housing

Corp is thinking beyond the box a bit, that they are analyzing where need is and they’re responding to that need. I think the changes have been very positive on certainly the government but also, I think, on the people that are in public housing and the people that are administrating public housing, our local housing authorities.

I am also really pleased to see that the Housing Corp is focusing more and more on green works. We’ve got voltaic systems; we’ve got pellet boilers and so on, and it seems to be a bit more of a focus every year and I’m very glad to see that. I think it’s only going to prove beneficial in terms of efficiencies. Efficiencies, in my mind, are going to lower costs, and we certainly need to lower our costs because of our declining federal funding.

I only really have two main concerns and they apply particularly to my community, but they certainly apply, as well, to every community in the North. The one is the cap that we have at the moment on public housing units in our communities. Yellowknife I think particularly Yellowknife’s single people are in a particularly difficult situation with the cap on our public housing facilities. As a single person you can get on a housing list, but you’re going to stay there for years and years and years. I don’t think there are single people who are in desperate need of housing who ever move from maybe 30 or 35 people on the wait-list. So we need more public housing in general, but I think in Yellowknife particularly we need to look at public housing for single people, and I would encourage the Housing Corp to look again outside the box and consider something innovative but that is going to be relatively cheap but also to serve the needs of our single people in Yellowknife. It’s an issue in other communities; we’ve heard that from Members. There’s also the issue about just the need for more public housing units period, but I want to emphasize that we need units for our singles.

The other major concern for me is seniors housing. We have, and I’m not sure if we’ve had the numbers out there, but certainly there have been several studies that have been done in the last number or months or certainly over the last year, which indicate a huge increase in the number of seniors in the NWT. That number is going to increase, I think, 100 percent to 150 percent across the NWT, but in Yellowknife that number is liable to increase three times, 300 percent. We need to, whether it’s the Housing Corp or whether it’s the Housing Corp in conjunction with other departments, we need to not look into this but start to make some progress on this problem. By that I mean providing some sort of housing for our seniors. We have a fair amount of housing already, I appreciate that, but where I’m more concerned is the lack of housing and it’s going to be even worse as the years go by for seniors who can no longer

stay in their home. I support the concept of Aging in Place. It’s something that I think is very valuable and I think most seniors, most elders if they can, if they’re still physically able, if they’re mentally capable, want to stay in their own home and they want to stay there as long as they possibly can, but there comes a point in time when they can no longer stay in their own home for one reason or another. At that point they need to be put into a housing situation where they have professional care where they have people who can look after them. There’s graduated elements of that care. Some people need more care than others, but we do not have in the NWT, and particularly in Yellowknife, we do not have that space available now, particularly for seniors who need to be looked after, so to speak, and who can’t stay in their own home.

It would be something that I really strongly encourage the Housing Corporation to act on yesterday. I was going to say sooner than later, but this is something which is an urgent need and needs to be actioned as soon as possible.

Certainly, the organization in Yellowknife, the Avens Society or the Avens Group, they have put a great deal of housing in place for Yellowknife seniors, but it also serves NWT seniors as well. Aven Manor and Aven Cottages are not just for Yellowknife members. If they are residents, they serve residents across the territory. Both of those facilities are full and both of those facilities have very long wait-lists.

I think I have stressed it twice already and I’m going to stress it again, Mr. Chair, seniors housing for those who can no longer look after themselves is an urgent need, and I hope the corporation will work with other departments to get it done. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Member’s comments on the work that the NWT Housing Corporation is doing. I heard her say she is pleased with the work we are doing. We appreciate that. Again, we work with the committee very closely.

The Member was talking about singles units. It is a challenge and that’s a direction that we are going to have to go, is give more towards singles. In some of the larger communities, especially the market communities, if we were to come and put 20 or 30 units on the ground, I think we would hear from the business community, and we don’t want to do that.

One of the ways we try to alleviate that is through the Territorial Rent Supplement Program, where singles, if they can get into a unit, we will help subsidize their rent. I think the uptake on that has been fairly consistent, not as much as we… We’re

at 90 percent right now, so there is still some room there.

The seniors in place, we recognize that it is going to be a challenge. I think that is one of the reasons that we are trying to get some of the seniors units into some of the communities. In all of the seniors homes that we are doing, we have designed them so that if we work with Health and Social Services, all the infrastructure is there for them to run their programs. It was in a particular unit in Aklavik I think. So we work with them. We will provide the infrastructure. We will make sure it’s built into the units so if they come back and say, well, we would like to provide these services, then the infrastructure is already there, which is a huge cost savings.

In public housing, we hear there is a huge need for public housing across the Northwest Territories. We hear we need more units in each community. We have been trying to take off some of the pressure by having all of the homeownership units, and again, as I said to one of my colleagues before, there is always going to be a need for social housing. We have 2,300, I believe, public housing units across the Northwest Territories. We have, with the affordable housing, about 350 affordable housing, plus we have some other third-party interests where we are actually leasing space from developers and then in turn renting it out. So it is a challenge. We are challenged again with the declining funding. That is why, with some of the initiatives that we are taking on, the green initiatives, as the Member pointed out, are helping us, I think, to deal with some of those issues and those cost pressures.

As well, and I have to point out and I should have pointed out earlier, we are actually seeing our rental revenue increasing. It is a significant achievement, I think, just to see the revenue increasing, and the assessments and the collection rates are all increasing. To me, that is a great indication that people across the Northwest Territories are starting to take their commitments seriously. There are consequences if they don’t and I think they recognize that. So we are quite pleased about that. Again, if they continue to keep up with their rent and everything and our revenue is increasing, that takes some of the additional pressure off the NWT Housing Corporation and this Assembly. We were fortunate last year, I think during the O and M budget, that we were given an additional $1.2 million from the Assembly to deal with some of the pressures of the money we were losing from CMHC.

All of these, I think, are part of our overall strategy to deal with some of the pressures that we are facing from the declining funding. Again, I have to commend people, our clients out there, for starting

to step up to the plate and accepting their responsibilities. I think that’s huge.

In the Avens, I believe we made an initial investment into the actual infrastructure plus we provide an additional, on top of that, $540,000 a year to help with the O and M of that. Again, we recognize that we are open to any kind of… As I said before, we’re flexible. We are open to any kind of partnerships that we can provide. I think we have proven in some of the construction, we provide some money to help with the construction of the infrastructure. The O and M is normally left up to the group that’s operating, but we do what we can to make a contribution to the infrastructure that is being built because we recognize that it helps identify and deal with a need within the territory and one that is going to continue to grow as the population gets older. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next on my list I have Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate this opportunity. Again, please forgive any overlap. I would like to start by just joining in on this love fest a little bit. I don’t want to be left out. I know the Minister is not used to these words, but all kidding aside, I think this department has really shown some progressive work and move to really tackle the issues. I think there has also been a happy coincidence with the return of housing to its proper home that has helped with collections and so on. I know the Minister fought hard for that under another hat. I think that has been a little bit enabling for some of the collection side of things.

Having said that, housing is a big issue for my constituency, and not just my constituency, for Yellowknife. I don’t want to go into too much detail. I think Ms. Bisaro and others probably have named this, but we have long waiting lists. The turnover is very slow, YWCA and so on. This is a real issue in Yellowknife. Partly, as the Minister knows, I talked a lot about this, income support to access housing doesn’t do it. It simply doesn’t do it. We need public housing. I would ask the Minister to look at that, because I think we can gain for the government. I think the public housing can be more efficient and effective to reduce costs as compared to trying to do it through income support. I have made a number of statements and so on and I know the Minister has access to those.

I thought it might be interesting to get an update on where we are at with the CMHC loan business. I think 2037 is D Day or something, and were there any signs of weakness in the federal government – I expect not – on playing a role in the national housing.

I heard the Minister’s comment on the old, disused units in communities, and I know the communities would probably regard those as liabilities, and given the hazardous materials, I would suspect the

Minister thinks that’s a real liability and something we don’t want out there, knowing how children get into houses and play around and stuff. I guess I would be interested in what the plan is, given the earlier plan has hit a barrier. What is the plan to address that barrier?

The Housing First really is a philosophical approach at providing housing with some obvious approaches that need to be considered and so on under an operational plan. I am wondering if there are any infrastructure considerations or aspects to the Housing First approach.

In terms of solar, I am also very happy to see the solar installations. I just had an assessment done on my house. I have fairly good solar, but not great. Twelve-year simple payback, internal rate of return over 25 years is 7.5 percent per year. When you consider that that’s before taxes, I am getting a $500 benefit per year. I’m not paying tax on that, so it is really more like a $700 benefit, not to mention some of the jobs that go along with that and the environmental gains and so on.

I am looking forward to some of the evaluation, but I just wanted to mention on the Hay River side of things, was that a Housing Corporation installation of 60 kilowatts and was there a miscommunication there? I think it’s clear that with the Net Metering Policy there is a five kilowatt limit, but with our Solar Strategy that ENR has, I believe there is an interest in having commercial providers with larger solar installations, and I see no reason why the Housing Corp couldn’t negotiate with the power provider to provide power there. I would expect that something like that might be worth considering in order to get full benefits from that installation and enable additional work.

I have to also stress the need for seniors housing and particularly, as a Yellowknife MLA, for the Aven’s stuff. I know the department has played a role in that and I know that the corporation is aware that there is an aging in place problem with infrastructure and that there is a potential role again for the corporation to play there. I have heard the Minister say he is very open on that before and confirmed today, so I don’t need to hear all of those remarks repeated, but I wanted to raise that with the urgency that Ms. Bisaro and others underscored earlier. I will leave it at that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Member’s comments about the work that the NWT Housing Corporation is doing and some of the direction that we are learning. The Member is correct; I have replied to a number of these issues, but there is a couple that I won’t touch on again.

CMHC funding does decline to zero in 2038. I think this year alone our net loss on that was $1.2 million, I believe, or $768,000. It is one of the two numbers. I think all of the deputies in the country have a meeting with the new president of the CMHC in early November. We are co-chairing the meeting. We are actually still co-chairs of the FPT and we have not been able to get everybody into the same room, partly because we want our federal representatives there and the federal Minister and we want to have a discussion with them. Across the country in some of the larger jurisdictions, they are starting to feel the effects of the loss of money from CMHC. We felt it right away because we are such a small jurisdiction. We recognized that it was going to be a challenge for us. I think they are starting to feel the effects now, and we are hoping to get together, to get all in the same room with the political leaders across the country.

The Member is talking about the demolition. We have demolished 75, I think 20 this year, so we would like to be able to expedite that. One of the challenges that we face in some of the smaller communities is that they see a house that is standing that to them is a perfectly good house, and then we say we are going to come in an demolish it, and they say you can’t demolish it, it is a good house. We say, well, there might be some liability there, and if we are going to turn it over to anybody, we are going to put them up for sale, we will do our assessment and make sure we are not turning over a liability. That is one of the challenges that we face. Your colleagues talked about one of the units that he represents with the number of vacant units in there, and we just had a situation in another one of the Sahtu communities where we had 10 vacant units. We made sure that they were all assessed and they were okay, and we made a deal with the community and I think they have ownership of those units now.

That is one of the challenges that we face, but we do need to start dealing with a lot of vacant older units in the communities, a lot of boarded up ones. We need to deal with those, because if you start getting young people, children, getting into there with some of the potential liability in there, then I think it’s on all of us. So we will deal with that and hopefully get a lot of those issues cleared up

I think I have touched on the new stuff that the Member raised. Again, Housing First, I will let Mr. Stewart touch on the Housing First because I know that we are part of a working group, and there was another one that you were going to…

---Interjection

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Oh, right. The situation in Hay River with the panels. So, Mr. Chair, I will turn it over to Mr. Stewart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Hay River one first. Yes, the solar panels we put up were well above the five, but we really didn’t spend too much with that concern. That was the larger size where we felt we were going to get our biggest return for it. We are look at putting some metering on that so we can understand this system better. As the Member knows, these investments are really useful as ways of being able to test some of the impacts of these units. We are going to put some metering on that unit so we can understand when we are producing excess power, and then after a year or so we will look at if there are other investments we can make to get even more use out of it. For example, that building, the water is heated through the boiler system. It may be that we can make some changes so that we can take advantage of the solar to heat some of that water if there is excess power being produced. We are quite pleased with the system and we will certainly be monitoring all of these sites, as we spoke to the Member before about, to make sure we can get as big an advantage as we can out of that.

In terms of Housing First, this is a concept that we are well aware of and where we have done a lot of work in terms of seeing how that might apply in a northern context. As the Minister mentioned, we are on the community advisory board for Yellowknife. The homelessness coordinator typically sits there as well as her manager, as well, as part of that group. There is a lot of work done through that group for the Betty House project. I know we did some work with them to get some funding to look at assessments to see which of their clients may be most appropriate for a Housing First model. I think now we have to look at some pilots to be able to say how we actually implement a Housing First model in a northern context.

Most of the examples from southern Canada are from very large cities. I think the national stage is quite interested in how we apply that in smaller places, which on a national context Yellowknife is. I think there is much more work to be done in that, but we absolutely will be participating in that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Stewart. Continuing on with general comments, I have Mr. Bouchard.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do have a couple of quick comments. I do appreciate the work that is being done on the solar panels at Whispering Willows.

I guess senior housing has been a big issue recently, and I know it’s going to continue to be a bigger problem with the aging population. Some of the problems that we are seeing are basically the quantity, I guess, the seniors in their own homes in places. I guess we’re having some difficulty in the placement side of it. There’s a gap, it seems to me,

between seniors that have houses that are dilapidated or need major retrofits. Housing has indicated that they’re probably too extreme to be taken on by a seniors program or whatever, so then a senior sells their home and then just basically has to be put on a list to go into social housing, so there’s a gap there between when you sell your personal home and get on to social housing. There’s that gap, that period of time where you’re in limbo. I guess that is a concern and I’m not sure how the department can look at doing that and looking to see if we could do a transition period of six months to a year to allow that gap between when people need to sell their home for whatever reason, whether it’s the need of the house or whether it’s the need of the senior, and when you get on the list. Right now, you can’t apply and get on the list until you sell your house, so you’re basically throwing yourself out to the wolves before you get on the list.

The other thing that we’re seeing with seniors is a lot of them are couples and the fact that there’s a big discrepancy between income requirements for a single and the income requirements for a couple. You would think it would be almost double, but it doesn’t really work out that way. The numbers are probably slanted to the single quite a bit, 75 percent and you only get an additional 25 percent for that second person, so if you have two professionals that are seniors that have a good income, sometimes that’s more difficult to get into that type of stuff.

Other areas that we’re seeing, and it may be just based on demand… Like I said, we have some couples that are seniors that definitely don’t want to be in a… They may not be in a housing requirement but they may be requiring. We need that, kind of, that gap, and some of it may have to do with the public sector. We may need some private investment. I think we need NWT Housing to look at that gap between private sector and public housing, and somewhere in the middle there should be a mixture unit that we can mix the two, and similar to what some of the Yellowknife MLAs have indicated, some of those will require different needs. If we had a unit that would have different types of seniors as well as some of their needs, so then you could also put a nurse or something like that into that facility and that would allow some of those seniors that are aging and require a little bit of assistance to fulfill that kind of need that’s being left in the lurch right now.

That being seniors, I think there are a couple other issues in Hay River that I’ve seen. Obviously, that Disneyland area that we have in the community, I think we have just about eliminated all of the units that are there. There may be one or two that are still operational, but going forward, what is the plan for that area, for adding units into there, maybe multi-family, or are we looking at just leaving that

piece of land vacant for now? If I could get direction on what the department is looking for going forward with that.

One other area that I’m seeing difficulty in is the rating. This is for more single individuals, but you go on a wait-list to get into social housing. I had a fine example of an individual that was working poor and wanted to be in social housing but kept being bumped down the list because he actually had an income and was able to couch surf for a year or two years with family and friends, but had that little bit of support and a little bit of an income, and he actually was being bumped down from people that were coming into the community, didn’t have a job, didn’t, I would say, even try, but they would get a higher rating because they were that much more needed. They needed more stuff from the social housing. I mean, I think some of these are operational, but they are all based on the demand of infrastructure in housing. Those are my opening comments.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. I’ll allow the Minister to reply. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We believe that the private sector can play a role in the supply of housing in the Northwest Territories. Through some of our third-party programs, I think we do work with private developers. In some of the communities we offer incentives for private developers to provide housing for professionals in their community.

The Disneyland, our plan is to have it vacant for now and then we’ll look at what different options we might have for that particular piece of property.

On the seniors that are selling their own homes, the Member makes a fair comment that there’s a gap between the time they sell their homes and they’re able to access public housing if that’s what they’re trying to get into, and it’s something that they may plan for before they sell their house, but it’s a fair comment, and I suppose it’s something that we’d need to have a look at to see where we can play a role there.

The point rating system, I think we designed the point rating system so they would be rated based on their need. We heard the concern so many times in a lot of the small communities that there was favouritism that was going on and we thought the point system would alleviate some of that. For the most part, I think it has. It’s unfortunate that the person that you speak of keeps getting bumped down the list again. I suppose we’d have to evaluate how things are done and how they’re rated. The fact that he had some income, as you mentioned, Mr. Bouchard, is probably one of the reasons that he kept getting bumped down the list, because his need didn’t seem to be as high as someone else’s. Again, we’ll look at that.

I think I touched on most of the Member’s concerns.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Committee, are we okay to go to detail?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. If I can turn committee’s attention to page 57 of the expenditure capital items expense under Housing Corporation. We’re going to actually defer page 57. I’d like to go to page 58, finance and infrastructure services, information item. Any questions? Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m just wondering, I see for Detah/Ndilo some major retrofits, but I’m wondering: is there a schedule for providing new public housing in Detah/Ndilo other than this fiscal year? I was disappointed not to see any there, and for Yellowknife, as per our earlier discussion.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

We have no new public housing or no public housing replacement units for Detah/Ndilo in this fiscal year. As far as the long-term plan, I would have to see what our long-term plan is.

Again, we have the major retrofits that we’re planning on doing there. As far as the long-term plan, again, we’re using the recently completed Community Needs Survey to help us to determine our next allocation of capital projects, and as soon as we have that, then we will share that with committee, obviously, and we’ll have an opportunity to have a discussion on the Community Needs Survey in our briefing with committee next week.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks to the Minister for that. Yes, that, I think, will be a key document and I’ll be very curious on what that shows for the communities I represent.

My last question here is how many homeownership units, I believe I heard the Minister say some of them were being converted to public housing recognizing that people don’t have the capacity to take advantage of those homeownership units. That’s certainly been the case in Detah and Ndilo. In Detah and Ndilo, how many public housing homeownership units have been converted to public housing over the last couple of years? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you. I’m assuming the Member is speaking to all units across the Northwest Territories that were converted to public housing. If he is, we don’t have those numbers with us right now, but we can get those numbers and provide it to the Member in committee. I will hand it over to Mr. Stewart to speak of six units I believe we have in Detah/Ndilo that we’re planning on converting to public housing.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Stewart.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

David Stewart

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, there are three units in Detah and three in Ndilo that we are planning on converting to public housing. We’re working with the LHO now to identify units that will go off the stock, some of the older units that are there. I know there is a big desire in the communities as well as on our part to get that finished, but we have to also respect that people are living in units. So, it’s not easy necessarily to move folks around, but we are working directly with the LHO to get them into the public housing stock. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Stewart. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think the Minister’s offer might be of interest to the Members, too, but just on those older units, I’m assuming they are beyond use, would we be expecting replacement units to be on the capital plan in the near future? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As we put those six into stock, we have to take six out and they’re replaced. So they’ll replace six older units because we just don’t have the funds from CMHC, again, to deal with that. There’s a lot of CMHC numbers that were tied to particular pieces of infrastructure. So we put six in and we take six out. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

It just seems a little bit caddy-wonky. On the surface it seems right, but given that there’s nobody there that can take advantage of those six homeownership units, they’re not really part of the public housing stock. Obviously, there’s a need there to replace the units where people already are. So I’ll just leave it at that. I don’t want to take up too much time on this, but I look forward to this Community Needs Survey that we’re getting a briefing on in the next week for further discussion. So I’ll leave it at that. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. I didn’t hear a question there, but I’ll allow the Minister a final comment here. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will take it as a comment, and of course, we’ll be updating the Member on any changes that might be happening in his riding. But we’ll take it as a comment.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Again, committee, we’re on page 58, and continuing on with detailed questions I have Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I mentioned earlier, I see a lot of things happening in the Mackenzie Delta region. I’m thankful for that.

I’d just like to ask the Minister, I don’t see anything on here for Tsiigehtchic and I mentioned that there’s a unit that needs retrofit. So would that fall under O and M because it was a current unit? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don’t know, we’ve got a couple of major M and I’s that are slated for Tsiigehtchic. I don’t have the exact, but this year we have two major M and I’s that are slated for Tsiigehtchic. As to the details of which units those are, I don’t have that right now. It may or may not include the unit that the Member is speaking about. So, we’ll get the details as to what two units they’re planning on doing major retrofits on. I think over the next couple of years we have four major M and I’s that are going into Tsiigehtchic. So whether that includes the burned unit or not, I’m not quite sure. I’ll get the details and share it with the Member. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. I look forward to that information. Moving forward, are there any plans for another multiplex unit for Tsiigehtchic and also Aklavik as well? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you. We have no new units that are slated for Tsiigehtchic this year or the next year, I believe it’s the next year too. There’s nothing slated for Tsiigehtchic or identified for Tsiigehtchic this year. We’ve got the two major retrofits and that’s our investment in Tsiigehtchic this year.

As far as a long-term plan, as I responded to Mr. Bromley before, we’re looking at a Community Needs Survey to help us identify where some of our strategic investments have to be.

In Aklavik we have two replacement units going into Aklavik this year; as well, we’ve got some major M and I’s that are going there. I think we just had a couple of market units go in there in the last couple of years, plus you’ve got the new Joe Greenland Centre and then you’ve got those five duplexes we just put in there. So there you go. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you. Yes, a lot of nice buildings coming up in Aklavik. I was wondering if the Minister would know if one of those replacement units is Bennett Apartments. As the Minister knows, it was probably built in the time that he lived there and that was quite some time ago.

---Laughter

If the Minister could answer that, thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you. Again, I’m not sure of that particular one. The bones in the unit itself are pretty good. So if there’s some work that

needs to be done in there, I’m sure the LHO will identify it, but it’s about 20 years old, I believe, 20 or 25 years old. The structure itself is still pretty sound and if there is some major work that needs to be done in there, then the local housing organization will identify it, but I don’t know, again, the details for sure. We’ll find out exactly what the plan is for there.

Our numbers we have are pretty high level numbers, as far as the actual house numbers and the details of what’s being replaced in the community, that’s a decision that we will work with local housing organizations to see if there are some units that they want out of stock and we can replace them with some of the newer units. They’re in a better position to tell us what works and doesn’t work in the community.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Committee, again, we’re on page 58 of the capital estimates. Finance and infrastructure services, information item, any questions? Seeing none, again committee, if you’d be kind enough to go back to page 57, NWT Housing Corporation. This is just an information item only, any questions?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Seeing none. Does committee agree we have concluded consideration of NWT Housing Corporation?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. I’d like to thank Minister McLeod, Mr. Stewart and Mr. Anderson for joining us this evening. If I can get the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses out of the Chamber, thank you.

We are going to continue on with the NWT capital estimates with Municipal and Community Affairs. With that, I will turn it over to the Minister responsible. Mr. Minister, do you have any witnesses you would like to bring into the House? Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Thank you.

For the record, Mr. McLeod, would you like to introduce your witness, please?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Chair, I have with me Mr. Tom Williams, deputy minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Williams, welcome to the Chamber again. Committee has indicated we are on municipal and corporate affairs. According to our protocol, we are going to forego opening comments and be going directly into general comments. Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chair, I have a couple of questions for the Minister referring to Fort McPherson as it is under public administration now which is basically under the Minister’s department. I’d like to ask the Minister what the plans are. I know there are some issues with the arena. That is why the hours have been cut back. There is a little trouble with the foundation. Is the department looking to fix this problem in the next month or two? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Chair, we have, I believe, an engineer going into Fort McPherson next week. We will work with the community, identify some of the issues that might be taking place with the hockey rink, not only the hockey rink but the curling rink. Once we receive that report, we will work with the community to see if there are ways that we can deal with that and if there are ways so these facilities can be kept open. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chair, just on the same topic, I know the community, when it was under the hamlet, we were planning to start the planning process towards a new arena. What stage are we at now with those plans for a new arena? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Chair, the planning work can still be undertaken even while they are under municipal administration. We will work with them, obviously, to make sure that they have financing or the finances to help deal with it. As far as the planning goes, that doesn’t stop because they are under municipal administration. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chair, I mentioned they are under the public administrator. Is the administrator starting those plans as we speak? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Chair, not at the present time. He is spending a lot of his time dealing with the deficit and trying to find ways to alleviate some of the pressures. As things settle down a bit, then we can have a discussion with him as to getting someone in there and working with the community to start the plans for a new facility.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. General comments. Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just have one comment to make with this expenditure. It’s that this dollar amount has stayed the same for too long. I’ve mentioned this before. The needs of

communities are constantly increasing. I know the needs of this government are increasing, as well, but I would urge the Minister to do what he can to get this amount for capital infrastructure in our communities increased.

We have devolved a lot of buildings to our communities through the New Deal over the years. Many of them were not new buildings; they were the older buildings. Therefore, they either need operations and maintenance upkeep or some of them will need replacing.

Expenditures increase every year. Nothing gets cheaper; it always gets more expensive. I would like to suggest that this number needs to be increased. It’s not going to happen in this budget year, but I would hope for 2016-17 that we would see an increase in the amount of capital expenditures for our communities. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister McLeod.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Chair, that is a fair comment. It is one that we have heard in our dealings with the communities. With the funding review committee that we had, that is one of the areas that they have identified. Once we have the findings of that, the final findings, we may have to consider how we go forward.

The Member is absolutely correct; I think it has been $28.002 million for the last four or five years. On top of that, we still try and access any federal funding we can that we can pass on to the communities to help with that. It is something that is on our radar. We will have to see where it goes once we get the final funding. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. General comments. Since I don’t see any more general comments, does committee agree to proceed in detail?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Again, page 53 in your capital estimates. We will be deferring page 53 until consideration of activity detail is complete. With that, I will ask you to turn to page 55. Municipal and Community Affairs, regional operations, infrastructure investments, $28.002 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Again, if you can return back to page 53 for total infrastructure. Municipal and Community Affairs, total infrastructure investments, $28.002 million. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that we have

concluded consideration of the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. I would like to thank the Minister and Mr. Williams for joining us this evening. Can I get the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witness out? Thank you.

Committee, keeping on with the capital estimates, I will ask committee to turn to the Public Works and Services section. With that, we will turn it over to the Minister responsible to see if he has any witnesses he would like to bring into the Chamber. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mr. Chair, I do.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Does committee agree?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, committee. Sergeant-at-Arms, if you could please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Thank you.

Mr. Beaulieu, if you would be kind enough to introduce your witnesses to the Chamber, please. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my left is the deputy minister of Public Works and Services, Paul Guy; and to my right, director of TSC, Laurie Gault.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Guy, Ms. Gault, thank you for joining us this evening. Committee, as agreed upon earlier, there will be no opening comments. We will go directly into general comments. General comments, Public Works and Services. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My comments will focus on the deferred maintenance. As the Minister of Finance indicated to us earlier through his presentation to the Members, we have a huge deficit with the infrastructure in the Northwest Territories in the billions of dollars. We are doing our best to maintain that percentage of power, we are increasing to lower our deficit and it is the aging of our infrastructure.

Has the Minister, along with his colleagues, looked at the other options to look at reducing the amount of deficit we have? I think we are in the billions of dollars. This government here is strapped, cash tight with the amount of money that we received through the Territorial Funding Formula with the Government of the Northwest Territories, and we’re doing the best we can. I know there are also other options to look at how do we maintain our assets through a P3 concept. The shortage of cash that we have, are there other avenues of building, design build kind of a concept that we don’t put up our

cash upfront so that we can build buildings and we can turn around and lease them back from the companies through not having to have all this cash upfront to start construction in our small communities?

I talk about one of the old buildings in Tulita, the DPW garage. It has been there since the ‘60s. It is actually a federal government asset and it is sitting there. It’s no different than the garage that we have at the Yellowknife Airport. Now they have a new building and garage there. Has that building at the Yellowknife Airport been deemed unfit or overcrowded and for all the reasons we should get a new airport garage in Yellowknife here? We have those types of situations in our communities. I’m just asking again for the one in Tulita.

I guessed the deferred maintenance, we are doing the best that we can and working on how we reduce, I guess, through a list of priorities and what can be done to look at the one in Tulita as a priority. I haven’t yet seen anything done in the last three years.

The other one I want to talk about is the Public Works shop replacement, and I’m very happy to see this within the capital for 2015-16 in Norman Wells. I know that there is some high interest from some of the members in my region, especially in Norman Wells, as to this shop here. Look at some of the concepts of this whole infrastructure. Should this be a successful project starting on time, within budget and completing on time, we want to look at this concept, because I remember Mr. Danny Gaudet along with other members from Deline talking to Mr. Miltenberger and some other Members and maybe even yourself, Mr. Minister, that we can look at this concept in Deline. This was talked about four or five years ago. Putting a one-stop shop facility in our small communities where everybody could take advantage, even help the education with having a trade centre there, so that high school students could go there and learn a specific trade and earn credits using the concept of pooling our resources together in a small community. That is what Deline has been asking for the last eight or so years. Let’s look at this. I know this is one aspect of how do we save money and prove our efficiencies of our expenditures when you are looking at these types of designs across the Northwest Territories. I’m happy that the one is being looked at in Norman Wells. Those are my comments on this issue.

Mr. Chair, the Minister is looking at these types of shop replacements, and if it is possible, we would like to learn from that and use that in other communities such as Deline and probably other communities in the Northwest Territories. I think that is a good possibility in helping each department out.

I will leave you with that as my comments and look forward to working with the Minister through his budget here.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The deferred maintenance budget of $5 million is in the capital and we also have $3 million in O and M in deferred maintenance, as the Members are aware. The infrastructure deficit is impacted a bit by deferred maintenance. Deferred maintenance essentially is on infrastructure that is already in place; however, it prevents that from becoming infrastructure deficit by us doing midlife work. Also, when there is time for items that have been deferred, that is the program for deferred, then we then do the work on the building. So we have been able to reduce our deferred maintenance from $470 million in 2007-08 to $290 million currently. So we have worked towards, I guess in a sense we are reducing the infrastructure deficit.

The shop in Norman Wells, for us, is something positive. We are working with the Department of Lands to build a shop that we are both going to use. We both gain from working together. We are using a piece of land that was transferred, actually an asset that was transferred over by the federal government that was beyond the use, it was not a safe building to use. The federal government is going to demolish the building and remediate the site and it will be then transferred to Lands. So that land will become available, essentially leaving the Lands without a shop in Norman Wells. We have been talking to that department and there will be a joint shop built there, so that’s something that we’ll benefit from. Lands will not use their building all the time. It’s going to be to store some equipment for parts of the year.

In Deline that concept has been presented to us by the community governments. Their wish is that ourselves work with the local hamlet, the local housing authority and also Environment and Natural Resources to build a joint multi-use facility, multi-use warehouse, shop, so that is something that we are continuing to discuss. Our plan for Deline, I believe, is quite a ways out. We are looking at the scheduling of all our warehouses that need to be replaced, and that comes in down the road at 2021-22. This is something that we need to discuss with the other departments that may have an earlier need, and if we can have economies of scale and it will allow us to move that number closer to now, we may be able to do that.

I like the idea that shops such as these could be used in schools where they don’t have the technical program in the schools and so on. Again, that’s something that I would be prepared to have discussions with the Minister of Education that

could eventually lead to discussions between ourselves and the various education authorities.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Continuing on with general comments, I have Mr. Bouchard.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My comments for this department, I guess if I can get a little more detail on the deferred maintenance. I know it’s been going down annually, what those numbers are, and do we have any kind of projections on where that’s going? Are we seeing some of those numbers going to be increasing over the next few years, or are we getting rid of some of those assets that actually are probably… I’m thinking we’ve got some older buildings that, actually, if we get rid of some of those older buildings it will drop dramatically, but I know that those numbers have been going down, so that’s a good thing.

The only other question I had was basically how much biomass are we implementing. I know Public Works and Services does most of the implementing of any kind of upgrades to facilities. Some of them might be in the capital budgets from our other departments, but I guess, what is the overall strategy of that biomass review? Are we continuing to add more and more biomass? Are we just about maxed out to the amount of biomass that we’re going to be doing? I guess, what’s the strategy going forward on biomass? I’d like to get an update on that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Mr. Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the deferred maintenance, yes, when an asset is sold and no longer is usable, it’s beyond economical repair, then we replace it. At the point we replace it our deferred maintenance does drop, but we would immediately start to accumulate deferred maintenance on a new building. So, slowly, if we’re able to renew our buildings for the most part, then we would continue to chip away at the deferred maintenance but we could never get the deferred maintenance right down to nothing, as an example. As soon as a building is new and is introduced as an asset for the Government of the Northwest Territories, deferred maintenance starts to accumulate.

I would like to have the deputy minister respond to the biomass for some more detail.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. There’s no doubt that we have completed a large number of biomass projects already to date. In terms of operational systems, before this year we had 16 up and running, in place, operational. I think we had another seven underway this fiscal year that are

either in operation or will be in operation before the end of the fiscal year. We have a large number right now in client managed capital projects that we continue to be delivering. Those are things like the new health centres in Norman Wells and in Hay River. The Behchoko health centre is another one, Fort Providence. As we look forward in this capital plan, we also have two biomass installations in the Sahtu region in schools in Fort Good Hope and Tulita.

As the Member has indicated, it is becoming more challenging for us to find economical or biomass installations with the short-term paybacks. When we got into biomass we were looking at five, six, seven years. Some of these now, because of the challenges around the location and the delivery of the pellets are of much longer payback, but we’re continuing to pursue them to both work with the Biomass Strategy and promote biomass growth in the territory and projects, and we believe over time in places like the Sahtu the price of pellets will come down. As we look forward, every capital project now we consider biomass as part of the standard process.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Guy. Mr. Bouchard.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The follow-up of deferred maintenance, and I think the deferred maintenance was a lot worse, especially when we started this Assembly, but do we still feel that deferred maintenance is a strong issue. Is it an issue that’s actually costing us?

The new buildings we’re doing, like the Minister indicated, as soon as we build a new building we have deferred maintenance, so are we getting the value out of our new buildings that we’re building? Because of the volume of our deferred maintenance, is that life of those buildings getting less and less? Are we seeing that we used to need every 25 years a midlife retrofit but because of deferred maintenance that we have, the load that we currently have, are we seeing that we need that every 20 years? I guess, what kind of impact does that deferred maintenance on the assets that we currently have and the assets that we’re bringing forward today?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Mr. Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Guy

As the Minister said, the deferred maintenance deficit has come down since we started in 2007-08. The approach we’re using combines the strategic funding to address those issues through the $5 million in capital here around life safety, deferred maintenance issues. We also are focusing the overall capital plan on deferred maintenance, so the large capital projects, as the Member has indicated, are also helping us to reduce our deferred maintenance deficit. Things like the Hay River Health Centre are complete and

we will see a decrease in the deficit of deferred maintenance. As long as we can continue to maintain the new infrastructure that’s going on at the required level, then we should not see a growth in deferred maintenance on those new assets reporting in service. However, our ability to replace assets as they age has challenged the capital plan, is oversubscribed, so we will continue to have a deferred maintenance deficit, I would say, for the time being going forward, and we are confident we can continue to manage it through the strategy that we have in place today.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Daryl Dolynny

Thank you, Mr. Guy. Continuing on with general comments, I have Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. As we work with Public Works and Services here just reviewing the much needed Public Works and Services shop replacement here in Fort Simpson and centralizing the carpentry, plumbing and electrical trade space, a couple of questions. In the document here it says shop replacement 2016-17. I just wonder if that’s a typo at all. Most particularly, we’re reviewing capital estimates for 2015-16.

When the Minister is responding, I’m presuming, as well, that he’ll be accessing the biomass steam heating plant for heating the new shop building as well.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The majority of the budget for the capital cost for the new shop in Fort Simpson is slated for 2015-16. We have spent some money already on that capital project and there will be some money spent in 2016-17, as well, but as I indicated, the majority of it will be in this fiscal year that we’re talking about today. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Yes, okay, a further response, yes.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Sorry about that, Minister. I’ll go to Deputy Minister Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, as the Minister has indicated, that project is scheduled to start this fiscal year. The funding that’s in this capital plan is to complete it in ’15-16, and there’s a small amount of warranty money in the following year as the Minister said.

In terms of biomass, our intent is to locate it in an area close to our existing central heat plant, which has a biomass boiler in it and that biomass boiler has currently got capacity to carry the heat load of this new building. So we’ll be able to decommission

the old buildings and heat our shop primarily off biomass. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Deputy Minister Guy. Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much. So it is clear for me, it’s completion in ’16-17 and using the biomass sustainability plan currently.

My other question would be Public Works and Services is responsible for the planning studies for capital projects and the one that they’re particularly looking at in Fort Simpson, as well, is the replacement health centre. I’ve been trying to get some certainty on that work and with the community of Fort Simpson about engaging them in a planning study as we move forward.

I guess one of the big things is about the location of the new health centre. So I know that they’ve done some work with a planning study. If I can get the department to advise me what the next phases are in moving forward with a planning study for the Fort Simpson Health Centre. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We are working closely with the Department of Health and Social Services and the RFP for the planning study will be going out very soon. It was scheduled to go out this fall, but we’re getting close to winter here, but it’s scheduled to go out very soon.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much. So I guess the main thing is to indicate to the leadership of Fort Simpson, the village, the band and the Metis Council there about their intent to engage them as they move forward with the planning study. I think that’s important. As well, I know there was some preliminary work done as well. I guess what’s important to the community is exactly where the new facility may or will be located. So a bird’s eye view, has the department had any overview of potential locations? Thanks.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you. The issue with the land and location has been resolved. I don’t know the exact location, but perhaps the deputy minister can add to this in a minute.

As far as the communications, we will work with the department and Health and Social Services to make sure that as the project moves forward, we’re communicating with the leadership in Fort Simpson.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It’s my understanding, and I have to confirm this, but I believe they’ve identified the former Deh Cho Hall site. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Deputy Minister Guy. Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Okay, thank you very much. That’s important information because I’m not too sure how the land is designated. I think currently it’s designated as an educational reserve. What processes would be undertaken here to transfer it to regular GNWT as it were I guess? Is there any difficulties with accessing that land, would be the overall question.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We had some negotiations but the land issues have been resolved. Perhaps if the Member wants some detail on some of the issues we may have had or how we were working with the Department of Health, I’ll ask that the deputy minister respond to the Member.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Mr. Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My understanding is the Department of Health is working closely with Education and with the Department of Lands as well as, I think, the community council on that issue. I believe that they had come to the resolution that that was the proposed site. I will have to get back to the department to confirm that. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Guy. Mr. Menicoche.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Kevin A. Menicoche

Kevin A. Menicoche Nahendeh

Thank you very much. Like I said, the community wants to be engaged, particularly with that site. That site has been under some discussion, but as long as they engage the community and the residents, I’m sure that a significant capital project of this kind should involve the whole community, not only the land but the type of structure that’s going to be built.

I’ve mentioned it on several occasions. I think other communities like Hay River were missing some long-term beds. It was actually picked out after the building got constructed. The same thing in Fort Providence. After the building started being constructed, it was pointed out by community members that it was not going to have a morgue. Those are the kind of little details that the community should see. They should see the type of building that’s being built, what’s being put in there. I think all those are worthy for the community to see and to have complete community involvement. As well, there may be suggestions about making it more local, or I’m not too sure what kind of standard design it will have, but I’m sure the people wouldn’t mind input into the design of it as well. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We would be pleased to do the communications with the community, keeping the community advised on how things are moving forward, getting their input, consulting with them and, of course, also working with the Department of Health and Social Services as we will as a government go together to consult to ensure that what the community wants is what the community gets.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Next on my list I have Mr. Blake.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a couple of questions for the Minister. I see there are no plans on here for Fort McPherson. They’re in need of a replacement of their Public Works and Services shop there. I’d like to ask the Minister what are the plans moving forward for replacing that. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Blake. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Our schedule here shows that this year, this fiscal year that we’re in, we had put some money in the budget to work on the PWS shop. So our understanding is that work was completed. So if it’s not then we will get to the department and back to the Member to find out what may have occurred. We’re surprised to hear that nothing had happened. That’s because it was approved in the budget the last fiscal year.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Frederick Blake Jr.

Frederick Blake Jr. Mackenzie Delta

Mr. Chair, also the community of Aklavik is very thankful that you did replace the shop there. I know they don’t operate Public Works and Services in Tsiigehtchic. It is contracted out. Moving forward, the community would like to see in the near future a plan to go back operating a Public Works shop out of the community of Tsiigehtchic in the future. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mr. Chair, I would indicate to the Member that we will look at the regular process if a decision is made to go back to providing a services shop in Tsiigehtchic in the future. We would certainly put it through the regular process.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. I will remind Members that we are on capital budget. Next on my list I have Mr. Bromley. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just had a couple of things. The first one is I am wondering where we are at with energy standards. I always bring that up. It is nice to get a progress report. I know that there has been some consideration at the national level to instigate new standards. I’m not exactly sure where we’re at with that. Maybe I will just start with that.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Mr. Chair, I will have the deputy minister respond to the standards.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have our Good Building Practices which define our energy standards for our government-owned buildings. They are based on the National Energy Code and meeting the requirements of the National Energy Code or exceeding them. I think our target is 10 percent better than the most recent version of the National Energy Code. I don’t have the dates in front of me. I know I provided them before and I apologize for not having it here today, but the next round of the National Energy Code is due in the imminent future. I believe it is less than a year away. At that point we will be reviewing our standards again to see how we do with the new code and we will be adjusting our targets accordingly.

We are going back to review and we have just sort of started the internal discussions on updating our Good Building Practices around some of the more recent developments in the area of technology. Those are things that we can put in there now around lighting that wasn’t available four or five years ago and things like energy efficient LED lighting can now become much more standard as part of our day-to-day routine business. Some of the things around biomass, as well, are things we are looking at putting in there. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Deputy Minister Guy. Mr. Bromley.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Chair, thanks for that update. I knew it was coming but I guess it’s not here yet, the new ones. In terms of the lifecycle renewals that we do, are they designed typically to meet those standards, as well, when we go in and bump up a building? Do we use those same standards for that work? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Guy

Mr. Chair, I didn’t quite catch the question. I think the question was, when we do a retrofit, do we employ our Good Building Practices? If I can get that confirmed, thank you, Mr. Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Mr. Bromley, if you could just ask that question again, that would be great.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Mr. Chair, the term I actually used was lifecycle renewals, a term I pulled out of the document, but essentially that is it. I’m just wondering: under our maintenance work that we are doing, the sort of catch-up to try and reduce our deferred maintenance, do we subscribe to those standards? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, that’s a good question. Wherever possible we do. For example, in a major retrofit project like the health centre in Fort Smith is a good example where we did a complete retrofit of that building from top to bottom. That was done in accordance with our Good Building Practices and those standards. Other projects, envelope upgrades, things like that, we apply the Good Building Standards wherever we can, and when we do lifecycle replacements of heating systems, alarm systems, lighting systems, we apply the standards of the Good Building Practices as well.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thanks for that response. My last question is: Given the ongoing climb in utility costs and environmental costs, and I believe this government has committed to addressing both of those, has the department set out a schedule for converting all of our infrastructure to renewable energy like some annual targets and a long-term plan? I know we’re working by guess and by golly, and as we have resources and so on, but obviously, a bit of a methodical plan and some goals might help direct the resources needed to actually achieve this sort of thing. I guess I’d ask the Minister, do we have such a schedule, and if not, is that something the Minister would consider getting done on his watch?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Beaulieu.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that we will try to provide some detail. We have done a lot of work in energy efficiency on the midlife retrofits. Each time we’ve done that we’ve tried to be as energy efficient as possible, and biomass. We have a Capital Asset Retrofit Fund which is just savings from the operation of the buildings that we’re doing, so eventually as we do more buildings, we’re getting more savings, so that budget just continues to grow as we continue to do more buildings, and we’re saving a lot of money in fuel and we’re reducing greenhouse gases substantially from the buildings that we own.

In as far as the future and the planning goes, what we’re planning to do next and so on, I’d like to have the deputy minister provide some of the detail for the Member.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Deputy Minister Guy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Guy

Thank you, Mr. Chair. A couple things we do, we do set sort of a benchmark around greenhouse gas reduction for the department on an annual basis, and we track it and report it in our annual report, which we publish every year. We also, through our Capital Asset Retrofit Program and our energy auditing program, go through and look at the GNWT assets and we set benchmarks around how they’re performing. The lower performing ones we try to move more towards what

we would consider a high performing building. That’s one of the targets we set as we address the various projects through the Capital Asset Retrofit Program. We try to increase the benchmark performance of the various assets that we operate and maintain.

There are about 800 assets in our portfolio and it just takes some time to move them towards a better performing level. However, there is also the challenge that we see around new and emerging technology, so what wasn’t feasible perhaps five years ago is feasible today. Things like biomass were not things we were talking about, per se, 10 years ago; however, it’s a mainstream today. The emerging technology around LED lighting that I spoke of is something now we have to go back and look at lighting retrofits perhaps again going forward to help improve our benchmark performance. What we’re seeing with solar may provide some opportunity. These are all things that we will have to look at as we continue to improve the efficiency of our buildings.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Deputy Minister Guy. Committee, we’re on Tabled Document 115-17(5). Does the committee agree to go to detail?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Public Works and Services, page 63. We’ll come back to that page. Public Works and Services, asset management, infrastructure investment $11.915 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Public Works and Services, energy, infrastructure investment, $300,000.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Technology Service Centre, infrastructure investment, $2.310 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Back to page 63, Public Works and Services, infrastructure investment, $14.525 million.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Does committee agree we’ve completed the review of Public Works and Services?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

Thank you, Minister Beaulieu. Will the Sergeant-at-Arms please escort our guests out? Thank you.

What is the wish of committee? Ms. Bisaro.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move we report progress.

---Carried

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Robert Bouchard

I will rise and report progress.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Good evening, colleagues. Can I have the report of Committee of the Whole, Mr. Bouchard?

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Tabled Document 115-17(5), Northwest Territories Capital Estimates 2015-2016, and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you.

Report of Committee of the Whole
Report of Committee of the Whole

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Do I have a seconder to the motion? Mr. Yakeleya.

---Carried

Item 22, third reading of bills.

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

Tim Mercer Clerk Of The House

Orders of the day for Wednesday, October 22, 2014, at 1:30 p.m.:

1. Prayer

2. Ministers’

Statements

3. Members’

Statements

4. Returns to Oral Questions

5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery

6. Acknowledgements

7. Oral

Questions

8. Written

Questions

9. Returns to Written Questions

10. Replies to Opening Address

11. Petitions

12. Reports of Standing and Special Committees

13. Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills

14. Tabling of Documents

15. Notices of Motion

16. Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills

17. Motions

18. First Reading of Bills

19. Second Reading of Bills

20. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of

Bills and Other Matters

- Bill 25, An Act to Amend the Education Act

- Bill 27, Miscellaneous Statute Law

Amendment Act, 2014

- Bill 29, Human Tissue Donation Act

- Bill 30, An Act to Amend the Public Service

Act

- Bill 32, An Act to Amend the Pharmacy Act

- Committee Report 7-17(5), Report on the

Development of the Economic Opportunities and Mineral Development Strategies

- Tabled Document 115-17(5), Northwest

Territories Capital Estimates 2015-2016

21. Report of Committee of the Whole

22. Third Reading of Bills

23. Orders of the Day

Orders of the Day
Orders of the Day

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Wednesday, October 22nd , at 1:30 p.m.

---ADJOURNMENT

The House adjourned at 6:20 p.m.