This is page numbers 6699 – 6756 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was going.

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Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Madam Chair, in the process here we’ve heard some stories of reports from the Hay River Health Centre or healthy authority that have a request for up to 33 positions. I think that was narrowed down to 21 and now has been approved for about 11.

I’m wondering if the Minister has any of the backup information on those positions and how we dwindled down from 33 to 11.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Bouchard. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. We were talking about a similar situation the other day with respect to Stanton and new facilities. When it comes to Hay River, when the building began construction the Hay River authority was tasked with figuring out how many positions would be required to properly run that facility. I think, as in most cases, there was the “I would love to have” list, the “absolutely need” list and the “I would like to have” list. The 32 was the dream list of adding programs, enhancing some services and doing some things slightly different. But given the mandate of the project, it wasn’t about expanding programs or adding new programs, so we were able to bring the list down a little bit as a result.

Then they provided a secondary list that included 21 positions, and some of these positions are absolutely required, but some of them need more justification and we won’t be able to justify that we actually need some of those positions until we actually get into the facility and run it for a while and can then clearly articulate the demand. Those positions were not supported through this process.

The positions that were identified, the 11 and a half additional positions plus and 3.15 relief, are essential to the operations of the new facility, given its size, the modification of how they’re providing programs. So, the 11.5 full time and the 3.15 relief are mandatory. The rest would have been nice to have, and given time, we may be able to justify that we actually need them, but we need to get into the facility first.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Bouchard.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Thank you, Madam Chair. I understand that explanation; I’m just wondering if there is any report or any kind of a briefing note that I can get from how we got from 32 to 21 down to 11, just so I know what the potential could have been, what the likes that we would like to have are and then what we actually got as far as positions and stuff like that. I know that’s been discussed between the department and the Hay River Health Authority and it’s been kind of a confidential document. But now that it’s been tabled today so now it’s open for discussion and it’s open for us to get that information, can I get that commitment? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Madam Chair, the wish list of positions was informal; it was never really submitted. As far as the other positions, I can provide the Member with the list of positions that are approved and we could put together some general terms of the types of positions that we need to continue to justify. It might take us a bit of time to be able to justify that. I don’t want to leave the impression that the positions that weren’t approved will be approved, because every position needs to go through a formal process and we must determine that they’re mandatory, that they’re needed to operate that facility, and we probably won’t be in a position to justify that until at least a year after the opening of the facility, to give us a chance to run it for a while and see what’s needed. So I can share the list of the types of positions, but I just want to be clear that it doesn’t guarantee that those positions are in fact necessary. It’s a “nice to have” list.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Robert Bouchard

Robert Bouchard Hay River North

Yes, these are questions that came before our constituency meeting. Obviously, the department and health administrators typically meet and have those discussions without the interference of MLAs. Obviously, we’re wanting to get that information so that we can answer to the public the questions of where we went and how we got from a certain number to a different number to even a lesser amount. So, any information like that that the Minister can provide will give us way more ammunition for discussion. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I’ll just repeat the same thing. I mean, we have the list of positions that have been approved, including the full-time and the relief, and those were deemed to be essential for opening the new facility and running the new facility. There were a number of other positions and many of them are, like, point five of a position or point 25 of a position. It was very difficult to provide a sound justification without actually being able to get into the facility to open it.

I’m happy to share some of those numbers with the Members from Hay River, but I do want to be clear that that does not mean that we have been able to justify that those positions are in fact necessary. We likely won’t be able to determine whether they’re necessary or not until we’ve been in that facility for up to a year operating to see where some of the pressures truly are. So, I don’t want to leave a false impression that those positions are real or are justified in any way, but I’m happy to share the list.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Health and Social Services. Mr. Yakeleya.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Madam Chair, the question is to the Minister on this supp here. Couldn’t this be requested in the operation of this money? Why does it have to come into a supp? Are other facilities in the same situation as the Hay River Hospital in terms of the positions that are required? I know we have a unit, a wellness centre coming up in Norman Wells. Could they be in the same position? Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Abernethy.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thank you, Madam Chair. The reason we have to do this now is because the health centre is nearing full completion and we anticipate that we’re going to be moving in during this fiscal year. In order to ensure that facility can operate properly when it opens, recognizing that it’s designed differently, its set up differently, it’s going to have a slightly different model of care. Not an expansion of programs but a slightly different model of care. There’s going to be an emergency unit, an acute care unit and an ambulatory unit. It does require a slight different make-up of staff. So, we need to do that now and be ready for the opening of that facility.

The same will be true of Norman Wells, depending on what the completion date is and when the opening date is. We’re in the process now of looking at what the requirement for positions for Norman Wells will be, and we know it will be a significant increase over what is there today because it will have a long-term care facility in that building, which does not currently exist. So we will be having to have some discussions, or rather, the future government will need to be having some discussions about the number of positions required to safely and effectively operate the Norman Wells Health Centre and long-term care facility.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Thank you, Minister, for the explanation. This request, in the previous discussions, could not have been foreseen that we’re going to be coming back to this Assembly to ask for a supp for the additional support that’s going to be needed for the opening of the Hay River health facility. So, hypothetically, the Norman Wells Health Centre could be in the same situation in regards to a supp because the planners didn’t sign this. If they would have, they would have put the money and it would have been done, already put in with the plan, the whole design here. But something happened that they said we need a few more dollars here to support the facility that’s going to be operated. I’m just trying to look at precedents being set, or has been set already and that the facility in Norman Wells could possibly, theoretically, be in the same type of situation where future government may have to look at a possible supp in regards to supporting that type of facility at the time that it opens. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

I would like to say that we won’t have to come forward for a supp for Norman Wells because I’m hoping that the department and FMB and the Department of Finance are able to finalize what is actually required and included in the business planning process so we don’t have to come forward for a supp. But, at the same time, I do recognize that some of this stuff is fluid and we are doing the planning but we don’t know the exact opening date of the Norman Wells facility so there are still a couple of ifs in the air. But I would like to say that hopefully we won’t have to come forward for a supp. Hopefully, we included it in the business planning process, but I am cautious because things may change as we’re getting closer.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Norman Yakeleya

Norman Yakeleya Sahtu

Well, certainly I agree with the Minister that we surely hope that the Norman Wells facility would be staffed sufficiently when it opens. You know, we didn’t think this back a year ago with the Hay River centre; we didn’t know this. Now that we know that they’re asking for an extra million dollars to provide the facility with the support that’s going to be needed and with the planners that they had in FMBS that you weren’t asking for this additional dollars, and the Minister is correct because things do change over time and I just want to make sure that the facility, such as Norman Wells, will also have this type of flexibility when they open up in the 18thAssembly, other than to say sorry, missed the boat, can’t do it, do without, do with less. You know, have that type of openness in the 18thand I would support that operation and not revert to, well, we don’t have the money, whatever, whatever. I’ll leave it at that, Madam Chair.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Miltenberger.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Just very quickly to provide reassurance to the long-time serving Member who knows we have a rigorous process here and we pride ourselves on trying to be fair and even-handed across the North. The requirements for Norman Wells, when those facilities proceed, will be given the same kind of consideration that all facilities are given to make sure that the qualities of service are there. Thank you.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Anything further, Mr. Abernethy?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Glen Abernethy

Glen Abernethy Great Slave

Thanks, Madam Chair. I was going to say basically the same thing. When the facility opens in Norman Wells, it will have the staff required to operate that facility. That number is still yet to be determined. Hopefully, it will be done through the business planning process.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you, Minister Abernethy. Page 7, Health and Social Services, administrative and support services, not previously authorized, $302,000. Community health programs, not previously authorized, $30,000. Nursing inpatient services, not previously authorized, $1.023 million. Total department, not previously authorized, $1.355 million. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Moving on to page 8, Department of Justice, corrections, not previously authorized, $111,000. Policing services, not previously authorized, $1.045 million. Total department, not previously authorized, $1.156 million. Agreed?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

The Chair

The Chair Jane Groenewegen

Thank you. Does committee agree that we have concluded consideration of Tabled Document 324-17(5)?

Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters

Some Hon. Members

Agreed.