This is page numbers 6757 – 6826 of the Hansard for the 17th Assembly, 5th Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was health.

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Question 948-17(5): Greenhouse Gas Strategy 2011
Oral Questions (Reversion)

October 6th, 2015

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

It is a bizarre response that the Minister knows we need to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions when the strategy he produced in 2011 for a five-year period said we would greatly increase our greenhouse gas. That was our goal, to increase our greenhouse gas production in the Northwest Territories. But I’m glad to hear him say that recognition, even if it’s against the policy he’s put in place.

The 2011 Greenhouse Gas Strategy recognized the necessity of transforming our economy from one based on fossil fuels to one based on renewable energy. That’s almost a quote. With the right policy, industry could play a supportive role, or alternatively, it could continue to drag us down without defining policy in legislation.

Is the Minister finally convinced that we need to establish renewable energy standards and requirements for industrial development in the Northwest Territories? Mahsi.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

It’s not a question of being finally convinced, it’s being in a position to start making those changes. We’re now post-devolution. We now have an excellent corporate example of the savings that have been experienced by Diavik Mines, and they deserve, once again, full marks for their efforts of putting in that wind power on time and on budget in the most remotely challenging place, probably, where wind power exists. We know that we can now make the case post-devolution, with our regulations and policies, to have that discussion on all projects going forward. The same as we are converting all our own buildings to biomass. The same as we’re putting money into rebate programs for individuals to switch to solar and all these other energy-saving appliances and lower energy costs in all the communities. So, we are on the move to do those types of things. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Bromley.

Bob Bromley

Bob Bromley Weledeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Diavik did a great job there and put them at a competitive advantage, as well, so they’re saving money.

In 2011 we adopted the useless strategy of allowing a significant increase in greenhouse gas emissions to 2005 levels rather than a decrease to 1990 levels as the science that Minister Miltenberger subscribes to says is required. What a waste of opportunity leading to added costs to our people. The strategy ends by committing to a new strategy in 2015. We certainly won’t do it, and the 18th won’t meet that deadline.

What has the Minister done to develop a new strategy and how will it actually help us reduce our greenhouse gas emissions as the science calls for and the Minister recognizes is required?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

This is a journey of some duration we started back in 2005. We’ve made set targets and most of them were inward looking as a government, trying to put our own house in order. We are going to be putting out a new document, a renewal, but it’s not a Greenhouse Gas Strategy anymore. It’s going to be a Climate Change Strategy. That document is expected to be ready in the next couple weeks.

We are gearing up to be able to go to COP 21 in Paris, which I think, contrary to COP 12 or 15 that I attended in Copenhagen, which was supposed to be a seminal event, this one actually will be with the president of the United States and the president of China there, and all the world leaders where they finally may ink some substantive deal. We have been on that path. We have been investing tens upon tens of millions of dollars in energy savings, in climate change initiatives, in alternate energy that is reducing our carbon footprint. We were one of the leaders in the country on biomass. On a per capita basis, we have some of the most solar installations in the country with more coming.

The Member speaks in very denigrating absolutes when in actual fact I am very pleased and happy that everywhere I go around the country people talk about what we’re doing in the Northwest Territories, and we are one of the most carbon intensive parts of the country and we’ve been slowly pushing ourselves to cut back and bring our carbon footprint down.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m not quite sure where to address my questions today. I want to follow up on some of the questions I asked on Monday about the North American Tungsten and the Cantung Mine and some of the liabilities and securities. I’m confused whether I should be dealing with the Department of Lands or the Department of Environment and Natural Resources.

I talked to the Lands Minister on Monday and I’m going to try and talk to the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources today to see if I can get some clarification on who does what with regard to these liabilities.

It would seem, in talking with the Minister of Lands the other day, that we have taken responsibility for the development at the Cantung Mine, that we’ve taken responsibility for that development without any idea of the liability that we are accepting. In June the securities required, I gather, was up to $19 million, but we only hold $11.6 million, apparently.

My first question would be to the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources. If we have required the mine to provide securities of $19 million, how does that compare with what the actual liabilities for cleanup of that mine will be?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What is currently there is just a shade over $11 million, I believe. The revised amount that was being pursued prior to the fiscal issues was to increase that to about $30 million.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

If I could presume, and I will ask the Minister to confirm, would we expect that it will cost about $30 million to reclaim and to clean up that mine?

I’d like to try and understand from the Minister, about a year ago there was an announcement that we were establishing a new division in lands, a liabilities and financial assurances division. That was about a year ago, last November. I’m trying to understand the difference between who does assessments for mines of the liabilities of a mine or any other development, and who actually handles the securities. My understanding is that Lands handles the securities but I think maybe ENR does the assessments. I’d like to get some clarification on that.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

This is a shared responsibility under the water licences and environmental assessments. The majority of the money is handled by and flows through ENR through that process. We are looking at, as a government, how do we best structure ourselves to better provide oversight for all these outstanding securities across the land. We recognized very clearly after devolution that the federal government wasn’t paying anywhere near the attention they should have to this matter, and we’re currently at work internally still sorting out what’s the best way to structure ourselves to do that.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

That kind of helps. With regard to all the developments and the potential liabilities that we have, I know that there is a listing of those, because through devolution there was a listing of everything in the territory, what the GNWT would take over and what would remain with the feds.

I’d like to know, at this point, have we done assessments on the majority of the developments that we are responsible for or that we hold? One of the examples that comes to mind for me is the Ptarmigan Mine out on the Ingraham Trail. It’s been sitting there for a very long time and nothing has been done with it. It needs to be cleaned up. Do we have an assessment of what that would cost, for instance, and do we have an assessment of all the developments in the Northwest Territories?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We do have what we inherited assessments. We have also, like Cantung, we’re looking at increasing the amount of securities, and that process is going to require time. There are some discrepancies, as the Member has pointed out, and we are very conscious about making sure that we have the proper securities. In the case with the Cantung Mine, we’re in discussion. The federal government is still part of this process and if that mine fails then there will be discussions with the site reverting to a federal site.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.

Wendy Bisaro

Wendy Bisaro Frame Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister. It is gratifying to know that we may be able to offload this, since I don’t think it’s our responsibility if push comes to shove.

I’m trying to determine for assessments, in general, where we’re at in terms of assessments for all the developments for which GNWT is now responsible. Have they been done, and if they are not done, when do we expect that we will have an assessment of the liabilities that we are responsible for?

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

We have about $570 million that we hold in securities. That number has gone up from initially it was about $500 million. As we are getting into this business, there are constant reviews being done and if there are discrepancies then we work through the regulatory process to address those.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Dolynny.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Standing Committee on Government Operations did an extensive review on Bill 24, An Act to Amend the Liquor Act, and committee submitted additional recommendations during the review and received a response from Minister Miltenberger on September 5, 2014. The GNWT responses were finally granted approval from the department to be tabled in this House on October 2, 2015, and as we heard today, I’d like to address some of these outstanding recommendations with the Minister of Finance. We only have a day and a half.

In some provinces the proceeds of crime are used to pay for policing. It was felt then and now that using proceeds from crime to fund community initiatives such as a community safety strategy would deal with our territory’s bootlegging issues. The Minister did not concur.

Has the Minister had any second thoughts in his early response and is he willing to at least consider such an option?

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Dolynny. The Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Of course, we’re always prepared to revisit decisions. This is not an issue where there is one clear answer and it’s right or wrong. It’s the best way to do things. So we’re always interested in having that discussion.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

The reporting of bootlegging in communities is very problematic for many reasons. Sometimes not knowing the number…(inaudible)… elders, sometimes there’s little access to phones and computers and, in most cases, just plain fear. Because of the lack of police services in many of our communities, committee suggested a need for better reporting other than Crime Stoppers, suggesting a more local anonymous tip program or a government services officer who can lodge a complaint on behalf of a resident or elder. Again, the Minister did not concur.

Has the Minister reconsidered and improved the better ways to keep safety and anonymity in mind? Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you. The major concern was, of course, if a complaint was raised with a government service officer who would then file, then they would become party to an action that they may not in fact know that much about or may be caught up in an illegal proceedings that would make their job very, very difficult. So, are there ways to better be able to report? I think with new technologies, for example, coming down the valley if we have every community on fibre optic links and there’s better communications that people can phone. We had Safer Neighbourhoods legislation two Assemblies ago and there was an enormous debate over these anonymous lines, rat lines they were called and how they would work and how would you respond and how do you get people in and how do you deal with all the related issues tied to that type of approach.

So, is there need for further discussion? Clearly. We haven’t bent the curve on bootlegging and alcohol abuse, but we have to consider some of those other factors too. Thank you.

Daryl Dolynny

Daryl Dolynny Range Lake

Thank you. Committee heard loud and clear that the single biggest points of access for alcohol in entering the small communities would be non-screening at our northern airports. Committee did not accept the GNWT’s response that nothing could be done and strongly encourage our DOT, Finance and Justice to work together with our federal partners to develop such authority for search and seizure of illegal alcohol transported in our communities.

Has the Minister made any progress on this action? Thank you.

Michael Miltenberger

Michael Miltenberger Thebacha

Thank you. We continue to work with communities in terms of controlling the alcohol and the alcohol abuse. In some of the larger communities it becomes a very consuming part of the occupation of policing, but we do not have any people that police airports on a regular basis that have that authority to search and seize other than the RCMP if they’re there and are doing it through part of their regular business. Thank you.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackie Jacobson

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Dolynny.