This is page numbers 4621 - 4676 of the Hansard for the 18th Assembly, 3rd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was communities.

Topics

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.

Kevin O'Reilly

Kevin O'Reilly Frame Lake

Merci, Monsieur le President. I have tried very carefully to choose my words here today. I take the issue of removal of a Cabinet Minister very seriously.

There is nothing personal in how I have arrived at my decision on the two Ministers up for review. This is about getting results for NWT residents and whether we have the right team in place for doing this for the remainder of our term. I personally like the Minister under discussion. I believe he brings valuable experience to this Assembly and has made a valuable contribution. However, I must assess his progress objectively on mandate items and handling of several important files.

I supported the purchase of the NTCL assets and the formation of Marine Transportation Services. This was a necessary step to ensure that we can continue to resupply our communities for a reasonable cost. I have no problem with MTS competing for private shipping contracts to ensure an efficient use of our assets. That should drive down shipping costs for our communities. What I do have issues with is the lack of involvement of Regular MLAs in developing a long-term approach to MTS and accountability and transparency around MTS. I disagreed with the way the MTS revolving fund was fast-tracked, and decisions that any surpluses not be used for environmental remediation.

At the same time, I also have concerns about the way Cabinet continues to use appropriations for expenditures that should be rightfully assigned to the revolving fund and how large capital items are amortized over very long periods of time. Reporting to the public and MLAs definitely needs to be improved, and the recent shipping failure to coastal communities is a prime example of poor communications. I heard about problems through the media. I asked the Minister for clarification and had to wait days for a response. I don't think we are out of the woods yet, especially with very significant airlift costs yet to be assigned to at least two revolving funds without an overall plan for now and into the future.

I have worked very hard to convince the Minister that we need real economic diversification for the NWT that includes much greater investment in tourism. The Northern Frontier Visitors' Centre was in my riding. If the funds now being spent on that building had been invested even 18 months ago, I am convinced we would still have a functioning centre here in Yellowknife. I just don't understand why we spend more on a visitors' centre in Dawson, Yukon, than we do in our capital city.

I have openly criticized the overwhelming focus of the Minister on large infrastructure projects, roads to resources, and the lack of social infrastructure investments and submissions to the federal government, particularly in the areas of housing, tourism, culture, and building the knowledge and conservation economies. Roads scaled to our capacity to retain benefits and in areas with fewer serious impacts can provide economic development opportunities. However, the relentless pursuit of large projects such as the Slave Geological Province Road and Taltson expansion have not received adequate analysis and have precluded any serious efforts at diversification.

I am deeply disturbed by the so-called Resources and Energy Development Information, REDI, initiative that is more about promotion of resource development than about providing balanced information and tools to enable citizen participation in resource development decisions. It also includes the use of educational materials in our schools that are about promotion of mining rather than giving our students balanced information and skills to make informed decisions.

The Minister has also refused to carry out any kind of review of onshore hydraulic fracturing, even though it is part of our mandate and while our government has agreed to a science-based, life-cycle impact assessment review of offshore development.

The most serious issue with the leadership of the Minister, in my view, is the failure to undertake any review of the resource revenues that we now can control following devolution. Such a review was promised when I asked questions early on during the life of this Assembly and was even within the scope of the issues to be addressed in the Mineral Resources Act.

While billions of dollars of resources are extracted here each year, revenues to our government have been described by an international expert as paltry and our management as "one of the world's most charitable fiscal regimes for the mining sector." We need to start acting in the public interest and ensure there is a fair return for this one-time natural capital. I have recommended an independent review to the Minister on numerous occasions, but he has refused to do this during the life of this Assembly. I believe that refusing to even look at the idea in the face of learned evidence challenging the adequacy of our revenue regime is an instance of stubborn refusal on the part of this Minister, for which I hold him accountable.

If we are going to have a Minister who is responsible for both promoting and regulating resource development, we need that Minister to take a balanced approach where the public interest is put before the interests of the private sector. I want mining, too, as much as anybody else, but we must do a much better job at retaining the benefits and doing it in a sustainable way. We have failed to evolve after the devolve and truly demonstrate we can responsibly manage our resources.

Mr. Speaker, for all these reasons, I cannot support the Minister continuing in his current role. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Julie Green

Julie Green Yellowknife Centre

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, with the information that I now have, I am satisfied the Minister has managed an effective solution to the stranded cargo for the High Arctic, which will not increase the expense to customers. Further, he has taken steps to be better prepared in the future by stockpiling fuel in the Arctic communities. Therefore, I will be voting against this motion.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. To the motion. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Tom Beaulieu

Tom Beaulieu Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Marsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise today in favour of this motion. I believe that there have been mistakes made in the delivery of goods to the High Arctic communities. Initially, when NTCL was purchased by this government, I was surprised. I believe it happened around Christmas a couple years ago. I was surprised that NTCL was purchased and then, further on, surprised that MTS was created out of NTCL.

At that point, I thought, well, I guess it would be a positive thing since NTCL may not be able to continue operations, but I also felt that, with our growing debt, I thought it would difficult for our government to buy all these things, considering that we often hear on small initiatives that we need, in our small communities, for employment.

Little initiatives like small roads, access roads, and things like that, docks, these are little items that we had requested in the communities. Often, I am not able to get it through the budgetary process. I think a Member has indicated that we ask for things and that our small items are often refused, while it was easy for the Cabinet to purchase NTCL and put it into operation.

I also know that some of the equipment that was purchased from NTCL was likely grandfathered and not something that we would be able to bring in new into the system at that point. We bought a lot of equipment like that that would probably not be usable the next time the regulations are upgraded or even maybe beyond use now. For that reason, I know that the federal government is supporting our government to buy new barges.

I thought that the shipment of the items into the High Arctic communities, I felt that was a mistake because I thought that then it happened so many times. This happened so many times by a company that was in the business of doing it and knew how to do it. They were successful in delivering the items into the communities.

We, on the other hand, had only the second opportunity this year, this summer, to be able to deliver the materials. At this point, we have essentially a 50 percent failure rate on delivering things to the High Arctic communities. Even that is, you know, there are a lot of factors involved in that. The solution, and what kind of got to me, I know that flying everything in would be expensive, but as another Member said, maybe there's a way. There are some costs offset and it may not be as expensive as possible.

The refusal for this Minister to actually listen to solutions was what kind of made me wonder if he was serious about trying to solve the issue or was just insisting on defending himself, or saying, "No, it's not my fault, so there's no reason for me to come up with a solution." You know, I had the question and I asked the Minister: how about a regional operation out of Inuvik as an example? An example, I thought that just pretty well all of the Mackenzie Valley communities could be serviced by winter road right up to Fort Good Hope. Then when you get to Tsiigehtchic, an all-season road and all-season road to Inuvik, all-season road to Tuktoyaktuk. The only other community on this side of the Northwest Territories that needed to have barge service is Lutselk'e. Lutselk'e, I believe, gets one, maybe two barges, but mostly one barge per year handles that community. I thought a small scaled-down operation in Hay River and then a smaller operation out of Inuvik to address the Arctic communities who had no other options. Lutselk'e and the Arctic communities that didn't get their items this year on a barge have no option except the barge.

The government spends a lot of money building winter roads. All of the Sahtu, all of the Tlicho communities are all winter road communities, and they don't barge in there, but they manage without a barge. I thought that a nice solution might be to set something up in Inuvik and then out of Inuvik to be able to barge out of there and have a small regional operation there. One in Hay River seemed like a good solution for me. I felt that it would also be a lower cost to the Marine Transportation Services. I guess there was the private business that that company was after, or the department was after that, you know, wanted to continue to barge out of Hay River all the way into the Inuvik communities.

I felt that the Minister could have listened and at least maybe given us a response to say, "Yes, I will look into it." That would have been essentially all that would have satisfied me, the idea of looking into it, the idea of having a small scaled-down operation in two locations and still run by the government and not compete against a private business of other people, needed items and private items. See, the items they could get a private shipper to bring the stuff to them.

Our reason for backing MTS was to provide a service to our citizens, citizens in the Northwest Territories at the best economic possibility, but the Minister indicated to me in the House here that wouldn't happen as long as he was still Minister.

For that reason, we are here today because we felt like we needed to find some sort of solution to the issues that were created. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. To the motion. Member for Nunakput.

Herbert Nakimayak

Herbert Nakimayak Nunakput

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a lot of this has stemmed from the issues in, you know, the delivery to Paulatuk, Ulukhaktok got some of their goods. Paulatuk didn't receive a lot. A lot of my pressures on my colleagues and mainly to the Minister is coming from my constituents. I have had some difficulties working with the Minister on some of the issues. I'm sure one of the reasons might be they didn't have answers at the time. However, I believe that, you know, in this Assembly, we are all equals. What separates one side of the floor to the other is our roles as Regular Members and as well as our roles as Ministers and Premier.

Mr. Speaker, I believe, you know, when issues come like this, the Premier himself should, as well, too, look at his Cabinet and say, "Well, how can we make this better?" How do we make a system like this better where we have this many Ministers on this side and we have, there are a lot of portfolios that are actually very, very humungous in departments within the GNWT, and some that may need to be restructured so that they can be managed more effectively for the residents of the territory? At the end of the day, sometimes money loss or goods not delivered has social impacts on the people who depend on it; on, you know, receiving their snowmobiles, their vehicles, their quads, their boats, and all the things like that that give them the opportunity to go out and harvest. As well, maybe even take on contracts within the GNWT or the programs that are around the Northwest Territories.

I would like for the Premier to take a hard look at that. Mr. Speaker, I believe looking at that and restructuring the, you know, the current structure that it is right now. What seems to be failing is why we are right here right now.

Mr. Speaker, I won't take up too much time of everyone's here. This afternoon, right after the briefing, the leadership from my region actually came into my office and they said, "This is how you are going to vote and this is what you need to do to work with the Minister and Cabinet and the Regular MLAs." You know, I vote on behalf of my constituents who I represent, and I believe that's fair business.

Mr. Speaker, I didn't bring too many notes, but I believe that, you know, the current Minister and the other Minister who is in question today, I believe that we need to really work together to get things done. A lot of the times, we are the ones doing a lot of the groundwork with our constituents, you know, with the regions. The Minister, I think they need to be more open. I think that's where the Premier can give us better access to his Ministers, so that we are more effective in the work that we do. It takes teamwork to work together. It doesn't take one or two people. It doesn't take the Premier or it doesn't take the MTS Minister to get something done. It actually takes teamwork to plan. Sometimes, they have the expertise within their departments. We have the expertise on the ground. That's where we can actually work together and collaborate, and actually, you know, maybe even cooperate together. Sometimes, this is one of the reasons why we are here is a lack of cooperation on both sides and lack of accessibility to the Minister, and sometimes the Premier. I think we need to really structure this government, you know, going into the next year.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that I can make a good MTS Minister out of the MLA from Hay River South by working together and ensuring that we don't lose this last year and actually plan to ensure that we are strategic in accessing and looking at funds, federal funds. You know, we talk about sovereignty in the North. We talk about ports. We know that we are a long ways away from a deep sea port. That doesn't mean that we can't start now.

What we need to do is be forward thinking. Right now, we are looking back. Okay. How do we fix this? Let's use that, bring it forward and ensure that the Minister has everything that he has to work with to make a better plan.

I know there were multiple errors on this operation that brought us to where we are today. I think that's what we need to focus on and pinpoint those and really, really focus on how we can improve those and make them stronger, you know. Rather than firing, I think we can make a really good person out of them and really good team player and even a leader of a department. You know, we could actually really do that. I believe that we have that here in us today and looking forward.

We have a year left in this Assembly. I believe that, you know, after having a chat with the leadership from Nunakput, they were like, "Well, what are we going to lose? What's lost?" They are the ones who have a lot of knowledge on the ground, too. They have projects that are ongoing with the government as well as with the federal government, and as well outside of the country. I think we need to really, really sit back and look at this day and say, "Well, you know what? Let's make this better for everybody else."

I looked at this motion this morning. I was like, "You know what? Hey, I'm going to go for this," but now I'm like, "Well, after listening to my constituents, I believe that, you know what? What my job will be for the next, you know, the next two quarters is to ensure that the Minister is accountable and ensure that the Minister is working with the people from Nunakput to make a better plan for MTS. Not just for MTS, but being strategic about how we supply the northern part of the territory."

Mr. Speaker, Canada is so vast and wide. The Northwest Territories are vast as well, too; north and south. There is a system here on Great Slave Lake which is good, which is in the Minister's riding. There is also the Mackenzie River, which supplies the northern part of the territory.

Mr. Speaker, what if there is a drought one year and they cannot get the barges from Hay River down the Mackenzie River to the port in Inuvik or to the port in Tuktoyaktuk? We can have them as a logistical point. I believe I'm about logistics. I think we need to look at all of those hard and look at this mistake, which costs right now maybe $3.4 million, but what we know, it might up to five by the time you pay all of the subcontractors. I believe that the Minister has it in him to come to us and start to work with us. He serves our people all the time.

Mr. Speaker, he spends a lot of time with the leadership in our region as well, too. I believe that what we need to look at is the GNWT or Cabinet working more closely with Indigenous governments as well, too. There are oil and gas possibilities in my region. You know what, I have heard that some of those talks went awry, but also we need to look at the cost of living in the territory and really focusing on that. Not so much on the bottom line of the Government of the Northwest Territories, but the social impacts that it has for our residents.

Mr. Speaker, I'm not going to support this motion, just because I believe that I can work with the Minister. The Minister, I hope, is more and more willing to spend time with Regular Members, especially when he travels to Ottawa.

Sometimes, there are projects in some parts of the territory that are in Regular MLAs' regions. I think that the Ministers need to look at that and work together more closely, as well as with our mayors, as well as our Indigenous leaders. We really need to restructure how we work together, because right now, two week ago, I was upset. I was saying that, you know, Cabinet has become living in a cocoon. They are not really working outside of anything, but now we are sitting here. I believe this is our time to open them up and start to work together more and more closely. We all have our faults. We all have our strengths, but that doesn't mean that we don't work together. We are someone strong. We help where there is a weakness. I think that is how we need to kind of look forward together.

Mr. Speaker, even yourself as a Speaker of the House, you see that. You have been here a long time. I believe that we have a chance to work together. I am not demanding, but I am requesting that the Minister work more closely with Regular MLAs, so that we can be more effective for the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. To the motion. Member for Hay River South.

Wally Schumann

Wally Schumann Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this motion of revocation today.

The first thing I want to get out there on the record is, you know, we have a democracy system here, and I believe it. The question I was asked by a number of people is: why? I said there is a process in place that allows Members of this Legislative Assembly to bring a motion like this forward to have this discussion. That is what we have done today.

Every Member has spoken on this issue across the floor. They have all voiced their opinion. They have all mentioned who they are going to vote for. This motion of revocation has brought up a bunch of issues today on the floor of the House; not just about what is happening at MTS.

MTS, I could stand here and defend it all day long as I have had in the House and where I have in the press. I encourage everybody in this Assembly today to go to the public briefing that will be posted by the Legislative Assembly. It clearly lays out everything that has everything and everything we plan on doing, so I am not going to get into that debate.

On the other side of it, the Members have also brought other issues forward of concern with not just myself, but with this Assembly and this Cabinet going forward. That is what this Assembly is for. It is here for the people of the Northwest Territories to have those public debates back and forth to come to some kind of consensus. Consensus doesn't mean everyone has to agree on it, to where we are going to take this government and our policies and legislations, and that is what we are doing.

Not everyone is going to be happy. To be in this business, you have to have thick skin, and I mean thick skin. Even to stand here today to defend myself, you have to be able to handle that.

I believe this Assembly is working hard for the people of the Northwest Territories. One of the greatest things that I think that has happened in this Assembly is the Premier clearly laid out that we had to go out and visit as many people as we can. I can stand here with true honesty and say I have been to all 33 communities in this Northwest Territories.

We have had an open and public process. We have had open public appearances by Cabinet with residents of the Northwest Territories in many communities. We get feedback on a regular basis. We have just had an economic summit with all the leaders of the Northwest Territories. We are continually reaching out. Collaboration is what this government is built on. We will continue to do that, but like I said, you have to have thick skin.

This is consensus. Not everyone in this room has to agree on a decision. I stand behind the decisions that I have made. Maybe they don't make everyone happy in this House, but I believe I get all the accurate information and make a decision based on what is presented in front of me. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife South.

Robert C. McLeod

Robert C. McLeod Inuvik Twin Lakes

Mr. Speaker, in December of 2015, through a territorial leadership committee, all 19 Members voted to select a Premier in Cabinet. During the mid-term review, I said that the whole of Cabinet is greater on the sum of its parts, Mr. Speaker. As a Cabinet, we challenge each other to perform to a high standard for the people of the Northwest Territories. We are able to put our political and philosophical differences aside to focus on what is best for the people, regardless of what we may believe personally.

Regular Members have a similar role, and have also worked to keep Cabinet accountable for their decisions. Accountability and democracy are inseparable. The people who elect us to exercise power on their behalf place enormous faith in each one of us. Collectively and individually, we need to earn and maintain that trust by submitting our decisions and actions to the judgment of the people we serve openly and transparently.

Every four years, the people of the Northwest Territories have the opportunity to directly convey their judgment about our actions in a territorial election. This is accountability at its most immediate and direct. There is nothing like facing an angry voter on the campaign trail to remind you who is boss and how hard we need to work to earn and maintain the trust our constituents place in us.

Accountability between elections is no less direct and no less real. As a government, we are accountable to the people in the Northwest Territories through their elected representatives in this House. Every time we are asked a question, we are being asked to account for our decisions and actions. Every time our budgets and plans for implementing them are examined and debated in committee or in this House, we are being asked to account for our decisions and actions. Every time government legislation is introduced for debate and disposition by this House, we are being asked to account for our decisions and actions.

At almost any moment on every day that this House sits, Regular Members have ample opportunity and the tools to hold Ministers to account for living up to the expectations of the Assembly and the people who elected us, including the ability to remove anyone one of us from Cabinet at any time. Accountability needs to be about more than personality, Mr. Speaker. Accountability is about keeping our promises. For the 18th Assembly, our mandate is our promise to the people of this territory.

I believe Minister Schumann has been doing a good job and should remain as Minister. Minister Schumann has worked hard to fulfill the mandate commitments his departments are responsible for, including critical commitments to bring federal investment to the Northwest Territories and grow and diversify the economy to create a strong future for our residents. He has also led planning work to transform our energy system so that we can reduce our reliance on diesel in our communities, reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, and address the high costs of living residents face.

Minister Schumann has also been one of the most effective advocates for the Northwest Territories and his people as a Minister. During this Assembly, he has helped deliver hundreds of millions in federal investment to our territory and secure close to $1 billion in federal funding, including over $115 million for road construction projects, like the Canyon Creek access road, Wrigley to Mount Gaudet access road, and Great Bear River Bridge, as well as funding for environmental and planning studies for the Mackenzie Valley Highway, a long-standing priority and one of our mandate commitments. He recently announced the federal investment of $23 million under the Low Carbon Economy Leadership Fund with Minister McKenna. This money will support energy efficiency retrofits, renewable energy, and carbon sequestration through forestry regeneration. He has also secured a $19.5 million investment in marine infrastructure improvements and almost $800,000 towards phase 2 of the transportation monitoring program to study the effects of climate change on permafrost and transportation infrastructure.

In the life of this government, he has also worked to secure a total of almost $13 billion in federal investment in economic development for the territory through the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency and programs like Growing Forward 2 and the strategic investments in northern economic development.

Minister Schumann, like each Member of Cabinet, has brought valuable strengths to the collective whole. He is a strong and decisive leader who makes the decisions in the best interests of this territory, based on strong principles. He takes his job seriously and works hard for our residents, Mr. Speaker, and Cabinet will be voting against this motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. To the motion. I will allow the mover to make quick closing comments on the motion.

Kieron Testart

Kieron Testart Kam Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to all of the honourable Members of this House for weighing in with their thoughts on this and on what is by its very nature a divisive issue but a conversation that we must have from time to time.

I wanted to address some of the thoughts and comments that were made here and one that members of the public have also been talking about keep coming back to. It's this notion that now is not the right time for a Minister to be removed from the privilege of serving on the Executive Council because there is only one year left. Well, Mr. Speaker, the mid-term review people said, "We can't do it now. There's only two years left." When do we remove Ministers in a consensus government, after six months? What is the window? Because that is not in our protocols.

When there is a significant issue and a significant crisis of confidence in a Minister's performance, that's when the motion comes forward. Every Minister on that side has just spoken or, sorry, the Premier has spoken about the hard-working nature of his Cabinet. I can certainly stand up and speak to the hard-working nature of my colleagues over here. There are many files and pieces of legislation that we work on, that we tend to know more of the intricate details than the Minister sponsoring the bill or the Minister bringing forth the proposal because that is our job, to scrutinize and to hold to account. Anyone, anyone who is elected by their constituents, by voters, is capable of taking a seat on the other side of the House, so I reject the notion that there is a time-bound requirement and that elections are the only proper time to allow for a Minister's performance to be judged.

It's part of our system of government. It's part of responsible government, which is a founding principle of consensus, and it dismays me that the issue at play here, which is a clear, factual performance issue that the Members have talked to, and, more importantly, how it was handled. Still, I half expected an apology today or at least a recognition of contrition around how this has been handled, and still nothing. We have a guarantee that things are on track. Millions and billions of dollars the federal government has put in their budget are flowing into the Northwest Territories.

These are real issues that still remain unaddressed, and I hope that this motion is a wake-up call as my honourable friend from Hay River North said, that this is a wake-up call, that eventually this will hit the floor, and, even if these motions do not pass, they are taking time away from the rest of the business of the House because they need to be heard. They need to be brought forward so our constituents can have their concerns raised around accountability, and Ministers who continue to refuse to answer questions, to dismiss the concerns that are brought up time and time again as we sit in this House year after year, that this will be the inevitable consequence. Even if that motion does not fail, it must be heard. Accountability is demanded of us in our roles, and I still stand in support of this. Mr. Speaker, again I request a recorded vote so the record will show who else stands in support of this motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. Member has requested a recorded vote. All those in support of the motion, please stand.

Recorded Vote
Motions

Page 4647

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Kam Lake, the Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh, the Member for Nahendeh, the Member for Frame Lake, the Member for Deh Cho, the Member for Hay River North.

Recorded Vote
Motions

Page 4647

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

All those opposed, please stand.

Recorded Vote
Motions

Page 4647

Clerk Of The House Mr. Tim Mercer

The Member for Yellowknife Centre, the Member for Nunakput, the Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, the Member for Range Lake, the Member for Great Slave, the Member for Yellowknife South, the Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, the Member for Hay River South, the Member for Thebacha, the Member for Mackenzie Delta, the Member for Sahtu, the Member for Yellowknife North.

Recorded Vote
Motions

Page 4647

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. All those abstaining, please stand. The results of the recorded vote: 6 in favour, 12 opposed, zero abstentions. The motion is defeated.

---Defeated

Motions. Member for Nahendeh.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS pursuant to Section 61.(1) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, the Legislative Assembly recommends to the Commissioner the appointment of Members of the Executive Council;

AND WHEREAS pursuant to Section 61 .(2) of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, the persons appointed hold office during the pleasure of the Legislative Assembly;

AND WHEREAS the Assembly, pursuant to these powers, has chosen the honourable Member for Great Slave to sit as a Member of the Executive Council;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Yellowknife North, that this Assembly formally revokes the pleasure of the Assembly from the appointment of the honourable Member for Great Slave as a Member of the Executive Council;

AND FURTHER, that this Assembly recommends that a Member be chosen to be a Member of the Executive Council. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Nahendeh.

Shane Thompson

Shane Thompson Nahendeh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a serious matter before us today, and I do not approach it lightly. Since we became colleagues in the 18th Assembly, the Member for Great Slave has been responsive and supportive to me as an MLA. I have been able to work with him on concerns for my constituents at all hours of the day, and I greatly appreciate that as well as the good work that he has done for his own constituents. By its very nature, the Standing Committee on Social Development, which I chair, works very closely with the Member in his roles as the Minister of Health and Social Services. Last year, we even travelled together, exploring ways to improve addiction treatment in the NWT.

However, this is not about a personal relationship with the Member. The recent report from the office of the Auditor General, or the OAG, has revealed terrible truths about the treatment of children and young people who are under the care of the government. Even more troubling, these problems are not new. Where the Department of Health and Social Services should have been making strides since the OAG 2014 report, performance has instead largely worsened. It is clear that the status quo is not working.

Standing up to move this motion today is difficult, Mr. Speaker. It's not personal, but it's not something I enjoy, but something from the report really stuck with me. OAG wrote that, when Child and Family Services intervenes on a child's behalf, especially when a child is taken into care, the department "becomes in essence the parent." Think about that for a minute. This is an awesome responsibility. We need to do it justice.

This motion is not about what we are hearing from our residents. It's about the needs of our most vulnerable people, and it is about what's good for the territories. It's about accountability for this government's legal responsibilities. Mr. Speaker, the OAG findings were devastating. Being respectful of time, I will let just a handful speak for themselves.

A young person went missing; staff could not figure out who was responsible for finding them.

In 95 percent of the files reviewed, the children are Indigenous, meaning Indigenous children are disproportionately affected by performance failures.

Children were placed under permanent guardianship agreements without screening. One of these children was later assaulted and has been moved to another home, and again without screening. These findings are so serious that the auditors interrupted their work to notify the department.

A new tool was introduced to guide decision making on children in care, but the experts who designed it disagreed with one in every two decisions NWT staff made. Staff turnover and chronic understaffing have disrupted long-term planning and contribute to burnout, and the employees are doing their best.

An assistant director was appointed to improve accountability after the 2014 audit; they weren't trained, weren't adequately supervised, and in some cases, didn't even have access to the Child and Family Services information system.

In considering the motion before us today, what we have to confront is that the problem putting NWT children in care, at least at risk, are problems within the department itself. We know from the OAG reports that the department committed to make critical changes to Children and Family Services, and that these changes were not made. I have also heard from residents and from fellow Members that, despite major changes to the Child and Family Services Act, the legislation isn't what we need it to be, and it needs more work to properly suit northern communities.

All this says to me is that the chain of accountability is broken. Regular Members have repeatedly showed that they are interested in this work. The Standing Committee on Social Development has pursued performance issues in Child and Family Services for the past two years. Why weren't we made aware of the seriousness of these issues until the OAG issued its report?

Back in 2017 when the committee pushed for more information about internal auditing, we found that the department struggled with a broken audit tool. We were told that the data was unusable. New action plans and new systems followed, but we didn't see meaningful change. An annual report for Child and Family Services provided limited information.

Now, the most recent report calls for "further analysis to determine the issues that are leading to the lack of compliance." With respect, the Office of the Auditor General of Canada has already done that analysis. The time for analysis has long passed. What we need now is leadership, action, and the immediate dedication and resources; not further studies, and not more action plans. In fact, less talk, more action is exactly what committee recommended 21 months ago, and yet here we are today.

Another area of Health and Social Services' portfolio also comes into play. For example, the OAG reports that 80 percent of the reviewed files pointed to drugs and alcohol issues as the risk factor; and that domestic violence put children at risk in 50 percent of the files reviewed. This tells me that, to help NWT children in care, we need targeted support to deal with addictions and to reduce violence against women and children. Most of these files are that. Most of these files also fall under the Minister's stewardship.

This is my challenge. This is a source of Regular Members and residents' frustration. We are just not seeing meaningful progress on these incredible important files. I know that several of my colleagues have planned to speak on this motion, so I will wrap up my remarks by acknowledging that this is a complex and difficult file and a heavy responsibility for a Member to carry, but, Mr. Speaker, that simply highlights how serious this action is needed. That's what I want this motion to convey. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife North.

Cory Vanthuyne

Cory Vanthuyne Yellowknife North

Mr. Speaker, clearly, this is not a happy day nor a happy debate for anyone here. When you become an MLA, you never envision calling any of your fellow Members' conduct into question, much less your friend's conduct.

Yes, the Minister in question, I consider a friend, and I know he is a friend to all of us in this House. However, I believe that this is a very important motion, and we must engage in this debate with courage and conviction. Like others, I was deeply concerned to hear the Auditor General's report on Child and Family Services last week. I have heard from a number of constituents who are equally concerned. Some are very angry, Mr. Speaker. Sadly, the children and families who find themselves in the care of the Department of Health and Social Services are often the most defenseless and exposed people in our society.

Out of all of our citizens, it is these people who require and deserve the best service, care, and protection that our system can offer. Yet, the opposite has happened. The most vulnerable of us have fallen through the cracks, and the cracks themselves have grown wider and deeper. It's absolutely unacceptable for this to have happened, Mr. Speaker, and since it has, we have to now insist on the highest level of accountability from the Minister and his department, and that leads us to today's motion and debate.

I've said many times, Mr. Speaker, that I support building critical infrastructure for our territory. I will support measures to bolster our economy, create wealth, and allow our communities to grow, but I will not ever, Mr. Speaker, invest in bricks and mortar over investment in our people. Now, it's clear that our people have fallen by the wayside.

Many people have been referring to the 2014 Audit of Child and Family Services which found many of the same problems that still exist, but I'd like to go back further, Mr. Speaker. The responsibility for heath was devolved to the GNWT from 1982 to 1988. Like many things that came to us from the federal government, the devolved healthcare system was a product of old colonial times. The act has been amended more than a dozen times since, but those changes, obviously, haven't brought our system into the 21st century.

Today's debate convinces me of that. Surely, the laws on our books should reflect the Indigenous character of our population and reflect the conclusions of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, but that has never happened. Instead, most of what we've heard from the Minister, for years, has been about the new Regional Wellness Board, the super board with its super powers that's going to fix all the problems, Mr. Speaker, but org charts and job descriptions don't mean much to kids in trouble. So we fail to overhaul antiquated laws, to recognize our Indigenous state. We have failed to take seriously the need to move toward reconciliation and self-determination. The fact is, this government's laws don't recognize the social and cultural reality of our citizens. What was needed was less time with org charts, and more time with real children and real families.

Mr. Speaker, for additional context on where I am coming from, when the community of Deline was negotiating its self-government agreement, the GNWT wanted to devolve our existing childcare system to the community. Here's our system. Do it this way, and over time, we will grant you full authority to manage it on your own. Essentially, Deline said, "No way. We don't care for our children that way. We won't swoop in and pluck a child away from here. We look after our children as a community." Surely, that should have been a lesson for this government.

After the grim results of the Child and Family Services audit in 2014, we were told by this Minister that heads were going to roll, that the highest level of accountability would be executed, but obviously no heads have rolled and no accountability was taken because four years later, circumstances have not changed. Actually, I stand corrected, Mr. Speaker. They have changed for the worse.

Now, in 2018, the Auditor General says that all the responsibility for making changes was offloaded onto social workers without resources to solve the problem. There were no new social workers, no funding for more social workers, and no new training to implement new processes. Mr. Speaker, that's a complete and utter failure. Instead, the top priority of our Ministers when they started this term was to cut $150 million in spending. No matter what it takes, we must get our fiscal house in order, was the repeated message to the public. No wonder we have lost sight of human needs out there, Mr. Speaker.

If our government machine is so big and expansive, if our laws are out of date, if we're focused on cutting spending while people and families are suffering, then it's time for a fundamental shift. Accountability has been the catch phrase of the whole 18th Assembly, yet it seems there is little interest in it. Maybe it's not surprising that, three years later, things haven't gotten better. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I hope the Minister responsible for accountability and transparency will actually analyze this situation as a case study and help the government learn lessons from this unacceptable failure.

Now, we're speaking to a motion to revoke a Minister's appointment because he has lost the confidence of the Members of the House. Just introducing such a motion is a serious step and one that Members on this side of the House do not take lightly. Like many things we do in this Chamber, removing the Minister probably won't have much direct impact on vulnerable children and families who need our help.

Mr. Speaker, it saddens me to say, but as we speak, children are at serious risk.

This motion to remove the Minister is about accountability. The Minister has accepted the Auditor General's report, but in my view, not the responsibility that goes with it. Without taking responsibility, there's no accountability, and there is too little will to really the help the children in this government's care.

Again, it is a sad state of affairs. Mr. Speaker, Regular Members have resorted to a revocation motion today because all other efforts have failed to bring about desperately needed change. We have tried working with the Minister to make sure the Auditor General's past recommendations were followed. Standing committee have had meetings after meetings on strategies, and frameworks, and business plans, and Members have raised these issues time and time again.

We are taking this action today because we will not accept putting children's lives at risk due to the negligence of this government. The Minister needs to hear this message loud and clear, and so does the public.

Perhaps the voices of the people added to our Regular Members will light the fire of change to protect children in our government's care. Whether or not our vote allows the Minister to keep his job, he must take full responsibility for his department's wrongdoing and inaction, not to us in this House or to his colleagues in Cabinet; he must make a public apology to the children, families, and foster families who are struggling through a broken system, and not allow it to break down even further under his watch. He must also make the department accountable, not in the government boardrooms, but in the classrooms, kitchens, and living rooms, where people actually live their lives.

As the recent audit makes clear, the children, the most innocent, vulnerable, and precious among us, will remain at risk until the promised changes are made. That must be the Minister's next job, or the next Minister's job. He or she must not rest until it's done.

Mr. Speaker, my comments and position today are on behalf of those whose voices have not been heard. I will be voting in support of the motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Jackson Lafferty

Masi. To the motion, Member for Sahtu.