This is page numbers 6089 - 6140 of the Hansard for the 19th Assembly, 2nd Session. The original version can be accessed on the Legislative Assembly's website or by contacting the Legislative Assembly Library. The word of the day was know.

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Question 1495-19(2): Carbon Tax
Oral Questions

Page 6094

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister also relay to the federal government the negative impact the carbon tax has on all residents and businesses in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Question 1495-19(2): Carbon Tax
Oral Questions

Page 6094

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I'll be doing that as well. But more than that, Mr. Speaker, it's about the fact that there are a total lack of alternatives to fossil fuel use here in the Northwest Territories, and if this is how the federal government wants to respond is through a carbon tax, then they need to help us find the alternatives to it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1495-19(2): Carbon Tax
Oral Questions

Page 6094

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister of Finance also relay to the federal government the value that the Northwest Territories adds to Canada? Thank you.

Question 1495-19(2): Carbon Tax
Oral Questions

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Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Absolutely, Mr. Speaker. And in fact, Mr. Speaker, in my view the value we add can only grow. If the Northwest Territories, a remote region, rural High Arctic, if this is a place that the Canadian can come and make us a shining example of how to get off of fossil fuel use, then they can stand up internationally and truly be a star. So they should come here, and we should be the shining example of how to get off of fossil fuels. I think we add a tremendous value to the Government of Canada. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1495-19(2): Carbon Tax
Oral Questions

Page 6094

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Hay River South.

Question 1495-19(2): Carbon Tax
Oral Questions

Page 6094

Rocky Simpson

Rocky Simpson Hay River South

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister also ask the federal government to consider exempting residents and businesses of the Northwest Territories from carbon tax? Thank you.

Question 1495-19(2): Carbon Tax
Oral Questions

Page 6094

Caroline Wawzonek

Caroline Wawzonek Yellowknife South

Mr. Speaker, this one we've tried. We've tried. I've tried. Other jurisdictions facing similar situations have tried. Other territories have tried. And we haven't gotten very far. Mr. Speaker, I want to look forward, and I want to find solutions that's going to reduce our carbon tax costs in the North because we have less reliance on fossil fuel use. And that's the point of the carbon tax, is to get people off of fossil fuels. We don't have alternatives in the Northwest Territories. But if that's the federal government's goal, then the federal government needs to help us get off of fossil fuel use, provide reliable and responsible alternatives to fossil fuels here in the North. It will dramatically change our energy situation. And if this is the situation we face ourselves in now with the carbon tax, it's time for them to come here and help us get there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Question 1495-19(2): Carbon Tax
Oral Questions

Page 6094

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to apologize to the Premier for not getting my questions to you a little bit earlier. Since the Vatican announced -- announcement, I only found out this morning of this announcement. Today the Vatican development and education office released a statement formally reputing, or in other words to reject or untrue or unjust, the doctrine of discovery.

Going forward, Mr. Speaker -- and I'm sure the GNWT Premier and the federal Government of Canada will need time to review the Vatican's announcement to reputing the doctrine of discovery and how this announcement will have significant impacts on the Government of the Northwest Territories and Indigenous people in the Northwest Territories as well.

Mr. Speaker, my question to the Premier is, you know, this thing is long outstanding, and my question is what -- you know, what took so long? It's more than a little rich for the Vatican to insert now that the Papal Bulls were manipulated for political purposes by competing colonial powers. The Catholic Church and the federal government have known for hundreds of years the extensive and negative long-lasting impacts of these doctrines.

Instead of waiting for this repudiation to come from the Vatican, what have the federal government and the territorial government done to denounce the doctrine and introduce legislation specifically reputing the doctrine and committing to the abandoning of and opposing all policies based on the doctrine? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Madam Premier.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A couple questions in there. What took so long, that I can't speak for. I can't speak for the Catholic Church and I can't speak for the federal government, although I'd like to sometimes. But I can say that the Northwest Territories, what we're doing is I think that in the Northwest Territories, we're one of the most progressive jurisdictions in working with Indigenous governments and, honestly, in all the whole of Canada. We were one of the first, I believe, to accept the recommendations of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in 2016. We're very ahead of the game when we're working with self-governments and land claim agreements. We did devolution where Indigenous governments get a say with that. We have the Arctic and Northern Policy Framework that we sat together and identified our chapters and our needs. This government brought forward the Council of Leaders where we share the chair. And just recently, as Members know, today I'll be tabling -- or doing the second reading of the bill for the United Nations Declaration for Indigenous People. So, again, Mr. Speaker, I can't speak for the federal government or the churches, but I can say that the Northwest Territories recognizes the impact that colonization has had on Indigenous people, and we're doing whatever we can to support our people. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the Premier. Yeah, this is -- it's a very tough subject to talk about but at the same time it's really a big topic because I know when -- even as the Premier going to continue to work with your colleagues and also the chiefs and leaders in the Northwest Territories, it's going to come up now. And those are some of the questions. But some of the questions that may come is -- come up is what will the GNWT do to identify and remove policies and procedures which are influenced by the doctrine? So they're going to be a lot of questions like that, so I just want to just throw that out there and put that to you as Premier. Thank you.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to thank the Member for giving me a heads up that there will be questions, and I don't blame them. There should be questions. There was a lot of harm done. Again, I can't speak for the churches but what I can say is hopefully those days are done in the Northwest Territories. The United Nations Declaration for Indigenous People, the active past in this government, will make things different. No longer will the GNWT get to define what's best for people. It'll be working together with the Indigenous governments hand-in-hand to actually define what our Acts look like, our programs and our policies. I know, Mr. Speaker, it's not going to happen overnight; it's going to take years. But we're starting the process. And I believe in my heart, Mr. Speaker, that is the right way. So like I said, I can't speak for the churches but I can say that the implementation of the United Nations Declaration for Indigenous People with Indigenous governments is the one thing that will change the dynamics of politics in the Northwest Territories for decades to come. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you, Premier. You know, I, you know, we're getting land claims done here in the North, across Canada and, you know, a lot of this is based on treaties and, you know, took a long time to get to that point. Especially here in the Northwest Territories, now they're coming together. But this recent announcement now that just came out, you know, I know for sure it's going to get talked about. It's going to be talked about in days to come. And I just want to know how we're going to probably -- with the help of the GNWT, what can you do to pressure the Catholic Church and authorities to return the lands of -- and sacred belongings to Indigenous people here and First Nations and treaty people in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think the Member kind of identified it. We're not -- I'm not going to wait. Indigenous people have been waiting way too long to get apologies from the Catholic Church, from federal governments, etcetera. I think that land claims is the way to go. I think that does give the land to Indigenous governments and so we're continuing with that process as well. I do know, Mr. Speaker, that the Dene Nation is all over this and working with them. We're there to support them. And contact me, I'm more than willing to support them.

But I guess, Mr. Speaker, I do know that the federal government listens when we mention their name. I'm not sure if the Catholic Church does. But I'd say the same thing to the Catholic Church as I would to the federal government. It's do the right thing. You recognize the harm, you see the impacts of the harm, do the right thing. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Final short supplementary. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Richard Edjericon

Richard Edjericon Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Yeah, I'll try to make it short. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What will the GNWT do to help survivors, including intergenerational survivors, to ensure that they are able to access resources and compensation and assistance they deserve and are entitled to? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you (audio).

Caroline Cochrane

Caroline Cochrane Range Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There's a few things. Like I said, there's many survivors and people think that it's only the survivors that were impacted back in the day or people that went to residential school. But we see the effects in generation after generation, and I still see them in my own family even. And so, you know, I think that we do have to do what we can. That's why the GNWT, we have the Truth and Reconciliation Commission that was set up to guide the work aimed at this very issue. And we'll continue to advance that work as we go forward. We're working with the Calls for Justice, the Missing and Murdered Indigenous National Inquiry. And the big thing, Mr. Speaker, again, is the United Nations Declaration for Indigenous People. I think that we're trying to give as much support as we can. We've -- I know Education, Culture and Employment has worked to provide a list of residential schools, support people whenever possible. We're always reminding the federal government of the seriousness of what's going on in the North and for Indigenous people. We're working with Indigenous governments as closely as possible to address their health, their social, their economic needs. And, again, I think that the work, again, that we will be taking forward, in governments to come around the United Nations Declaration, is one of the most progressive things that we could have done and the right thing to do. Like I say, do the right thing, and I think we're trying to do the right thing. But it's not going to happen overnight. It's going to take years but we're on the right path. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Madam Premier. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No way I'm letting 42 minutes left on the clock.

Yesterday in the House, I asked the Minister of Infrastructure to provide an update on how much we estimate Taltson to cost and she refused to do that. And my concern here, Mr. Speaker, is the last cost estimate we have is $1.2 billion from 2013. I think it's fairly safe to say that in the last nine years, construction costs have increased. And I am really worried that this project is going to have a bit of sticker shock. It's going to be similar to Giant Mine which we were all talking about costing a billion dollars which became $4.38 billion. So, I think that we have right to know in this House how much we currently expect this project to cost. Is it $1 billion, $2 billion, 3, 4, 5? I really have no sense of how much this has increased since 2013. So can the Minister of Infrastructure provide us a rough estimate of how much the current Taltson Expansion is going to cost. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister responsible for Infrastructure.

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have got -- our Minister Vandal just walked in the door there so I'm really happy to hear that he's able to join us. So I do want to say the future spend will depend, again, on how commercial negotiation advance between the parties, including the Government of Canada, the Canadian Infrastructure Bank, and our Indigenous partners, as the work we define, the project footprint, our progress will also depend on any issues that emerge during the regulatory approval process. So Mr. Speaker, the Member is wanting to get a number out. I just can't do that right now. I did commit yesterday to looking at a business case and be able to work with the Member, so. He wants me to say a number, I just can't say it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Rylund Johnson

Rylund Johnson Yellowknife North

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I think it's a point to know that yesterday the Minister committed to a non-public business case. Mr. Speaker, there's a public debate that needs to happen here of whether we are spending billions of dollars. I actually have no sense of how much this project is going to cost. Can the Minister give us a timeline of when an updated figure can be provided? I just think it is inappropriate for us to be using 2013 figures and keep saying this is a $1 billion project when we all know it isn't anymore. When can we see that? Certainly if you go through the environmental regulatory process, that's going to come out. You are going to have pretty detailed applications once you initiate that process. So when can we expect to see an updated figure? I am not looking for complete details on everything that we are going to tender, I am just trying to figure out whether we're at $1 billion or $5 billion or somewhere in between. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Diane Archie

Diane Archie Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The business case is on track for completion within the life of this government. I said that yesterday, and I will say that again today. We are in progress of updating a number of things. Our capital costs, examining some of our routing options, the updating some of our project revenues. Advancing commercial discussions between partners, investors, in preparation for this regulatory application for the whole project. So we are looking at the life of this government to be able to share, not publicly, but share with the Members the business case. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker

The Speaker Frederick Blake Jr.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Honourable Premier.