Good afternoon. Orders of the day for Monday, December 16, 1991. Item 2, Ministers' statements. The honourable Member for Sahtu.

Thank you, Mr. Kakfwi. I would like to take this opportunity to recognize, in the gallery, Mr. Charlie Lyall, Mayor of Spence Bay.

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Ministers' statements. Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Allooloo.

(Translation) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to congratulate the Tungavik Federation of Nunavut in reaching a final agreement in Ottawa during the weekend. I would like to thank the Tungavik negotiators. They worked very hard, and I wish to thank them. They worked so hard they seemed to forget about their personal lives. There is to be a Nunavut territory, and the territorial government has agreed. We have a lot of work ahead of us. The residents of Nunavut have to be informed of the details of the agreement. A plebiscite has to be held on the boundary question, and the agreement has to be ratified.

In addition we still have to negotiate a political accord with TFN and the federal government which will cover such important questions as principles for financing the Nunavut government, transition arrangements and timing.

As the Minister of Intergovernmental and Aboriginal Affairs mentioned, the federal government has agreed to a $580 million payment over 14 years, and it has a guaranteed interest rate of 9.36 per cent. That means a total federal contribution of over one billion dollars over 14 years.

Finally, as Minister of Education I was also pleased to learn that TFN has negotiated a special fund of $13 million dedicated to training. This will help ensure that northern people are prepared to implement the claim. Thank you.

Members' statements. Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform this Legislature and the cabinet of the Keewatin Regional Health Board's response to the Minister of Health's directive regarding the expenditure management initiatives. The board has proposed seven recommendations that, if approved, would not only realize significant reductions in long-term costs of delivering health and social services to the region, but also dramatically improve the delivery of these services to the region. I believe a copy of these recommendations is already in the hands of the Minister.

I need not remind you, Mr. Speaker, that this year has been a very difficult one for the Keewatin Regional Health Board. The region has been drastically hit by various disease outbreaks, including the E-coli and red measles. I am sure Members will join me in congratulating the Keewatin Regional Health Board for their excellent work in dealing with these problems.

---Applause

Thank you. It is all the more impressive that they have also found the time to discuss and develop strategies to improve the cost efficiency of the delivery of the health care system in the Keewatin while dealing with these difficult problems.

Mr. Speaker, I will be tabling these proposals at the appropriate time today. I would also like to give notice to the Minister of Health that I will be very interested to know what steps his department has taken to implement these recommendations, when the House reconvenes in February. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Todd. Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to congratulate my former colleague on this side of the House, Mr. Whitford, for the tough stand that he took last week in refusing to divulge information which was of a confidential nature; also to maintain cabinet solidarity in the face of a demand for a review of Social Services. It is absolutely imperative, if you sit on that other side, that there has to be loyalty among all Members to deliver a government program. I congratulate him because I found that he behaved exactly the same way when he was on this side of the House; he gave up some of his individual freedom, from time to time, in order to support other Members to achieve the purposes that they had indicated were important to them, to other ordinary Members.

So, Mr. Speaker, one day in the local newspaper you get congratulated and you get all kinds of wonderful accolades because of the good work that you are doing, and the following week you get dumped over simply because you have been loyal to your colleagues. I would like to congratulate him for standing his ground. Thank you.

---Applause

Members' statements. Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (Translation) As you have heard earlier and heard and watched this morning on the news, the Tungavik Federation of Nunavut president, Mr. Louis Pilakapsi, and Tom Siddon have come to an agreement. I am positive that the Inuit are very happy about this agreement with regard to Nunavut and government.

A lot of times we were doubtful whether or not this was going to proceed. I remember in 1968 I was working with Peter Mansbridge, with CBC, and Tagak Curley, who was an adult educator at the time. We had a discussion about the desires and needs of the Inuit people, that they should be able to control their own land. When we were discussing this, I also mentioned that the Inuit people have to get more training, and Tagak responded to me, "If we really want this to go through, we will have to fight for it."

Mr. Speaker, I would like to state at this time that I am very happy about the progress. Even though there were changes, the government officials or the leaders, the people of Nunavut were able to continue, to the fullest, to the end. Thank you.

---Applause

Members' statements. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Last Thursday I commented on the history of victimization of women of aboriginal decent. Men have been victims of racial hatred, too. Today I wish to talk about the role that Canadian institutions have played in perpetuating that victimization process.

I had to laugh out loud, Mr. Speaker, when I heard about the Right Honourable Joe Clark's November 28th comments to the First Nations' leadership, when he tried to say that violence has not been part of the Canadian tradition. Mr. Speaker, violence against aboriginal people has been part of the Canadian experience right from the first moment Europeans set foot on this land. It was part of the Canadian tradition when the Beothuks were slaughtered in Newfoundland, and later when the government took up arms against native people during the Riel Rebellion, the Duck Lake confrontation, and most recently, Oka.

And these are just low points from Canada's own shameful past. If you consider the history of race relations throughout the Americas, you can find evidence of the mistreatment of native people from the time of Christopher Columbus right up to the tragedy at Wounded Knee. It continues today, with human rights abuses and land theft in many nations of Central and South America.

No, Mr. Speaker, Joe Clark was wrong. There has been a history of violent manipulation and victimization of Amerindian peoples throughout the years of our contact with non-native cultures. And we have tasted the bitter victimization in the North, too, Mr. Speaker. It was present in the corporal punishment endured by aboriginal children in the residential school system. It is present in our current system of justice. Many things must be wrong with any system that spends half a million dollars to conclude that it is all right for a judge to say that rape is different when it happens to northern women from when it happens to dainty southern Canadian co-eds.

I am heartened by a recent report of the Law Reform Commission of Canada which proposes a system of justice based on aboriginal traditions...

Mr. Gargan, your time has expired. Are you seeking unanimous consent to conclude?

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Unanimous consent is requested. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Continue, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and Members. I am heartened by a recent report of the Law Reform Commission of Canada which proposes a system of justice based on aboriginal traditions and beliefs for First Nations peoples. I believe that it is only through the establishment of these sorts of aboriginal institutions that native people will break free of the pattern of victimization that has plagued us throughout the history of Canada. I would urge the cabinet and my colleagues in this House to remember this in all our efforts to develop a constitutional framework for our northern homelands. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Members' statements. Members' statements. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Ningark.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to a question asked by Mr. Lewis on December 11, 1991, concerning legislation regarding the establishment of a northern brewery. Alcohol abuse is such a large problem in the NWT that anything to do with alcohol causes a lot of emotion. In my own riding, two out of three communities have prohibition. Recognizing the emotional response this legislation is likely to receive, I will review it carefully and will discuss it with other Members of cabinet. Until this is done, I have no intentions, one way or the other, regarding brewery legislation. Thank you.

Returns to oral questions. Ms. Cournoyea.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a reply to a question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on December 11, 1991, regarding an update on the status of the Northern Accord. Mr. Speaker, between the fall of 1989 and the spring of 1990, the Government of the Northwest Territories, with the direct participation of the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, the Tungavik Federation of Nunavut and the Dene/Metis, did develop a comprehensive proposal for the finalization of the accord. The accord will see the transfer of oil and gas management responsibilities from the federal government to the Government of the Northwest Territories. The proposal contains provisions which guarantee that the accord will not diminish the ability of the federal government and aboriginal claimant groups to negotiate and implement land claims.

The proposal was tabled with the federal government in May, 1990. However, we did not proceed with formal negotiations at that time because we had not completed an agreement with the Yukon on the Beaufort Sea. There were also significant uncertainties about the status of the Dene/Metis land claim, and more specifically, with the issues of aboriginal subsurface benefits agreements. The federal government refused to provide for these agreements in the claims but had not indicated to the GNWT how they could be provided through the Northern Accord.

Last spring we were able to successfully complete the negotiation of an agreement with Yukon regarding oil and gas management responsibilities in the Beaufort Sea. Furthermore, Minister Siddon has formally committed to transfer to the GNWT, through the accord, the additional powers to legislate in respect of aboriginal subsurface agreements on settlement lands as part of the Gwich'in final agreement.

The federal government has not yet provided a full response to our proposal. The informal discussions that we have had to date indicate that we can expect that the fiscal and financial elements of the accord will be the most difficult to resolve. Without an adequate fiscal and financial package, I must stress that this government will not be willing to accept the transfer.

I cannot predict how long it will take before we can arrive at a satisfactory agreement, but I will certainly inform this House of any developments which alter the present status of the accord.

Returns to oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is a return to Question O3-12(1), asked on December 9th, concerning transportation of equipment to Snare Lake. The Department of Public Works on behalf of Municipal and Community Affairs has purchased equipment and is managing the construction of a maintenance garage due to begin in the summer of 1992. We are working with the Department of Transportation, which is co-ordinating the review of options for the winter freight haul for the territorial government. A decision is expected by the end of this month. The road would ordinarily be constructed in January/February.

I have a return to Question O24-12(1) concerning membership on the Workers' Compensation Board. The directors currently serving on the Workers' Compensation Board are: Mr. Grant Hinchey, Mr. Jim Evoy, Mr. Grant Horseman, Mr. Dale Johnston, Mr. Ronald Williams. All are residents of Yellowknife, and Mr. Williams is an aboriginal person, being an NWT Metis.

Another question, asked by Mr. Gargan on December 12th, on the government's emergency response plan. The Government of the NWT does have plans to deal with emergencies. In the NWT we are organized for response at the territorial, regional/area, and community level. Emergency response plans do include procedures to respond to specific scenarios. However, the plans also establish an emergency response organization and assigned agency responsibilities to provide for a response to any unforeseen emergency situation.

Although not all have received formal approval, every NWT municipality except Grise Fiord has developed an emergency response plan. These plans often provide for the conduct of a co-ordinated search for missing persons and in doing so utilize volunteers from hunters and trappers associations or community search and rescue teams. A recent amendment to the Civil Emergency Measures Act provides the authority for a community-organized search outside municipal boundaries. Although the primary responsibility for ground searches remains with the RCMP, the point remains that the local authority is organized to offer assistance.

The Canadian Forces have primary responsibility for responding to missing or downed aircraft incidents in the NWT, other than those which occur on airport property or within a municipality. The Canadian Forces operates four rescue co-ordination centres, RCCs, across the country, with the Edmonton RCC responsible for managing air and marine search and rescue responses throughout most of the NWT and its coastal waters. In responding to any search and rescue incidents, the rescue co-ordination centres can call for assistance from military aircraft, coast guard vessels, volunteer organizations of aviators and mariners, as well as the resources of GNWT and municipal emergency personnel.

As I have just said, the Canadian Forces can seek outside help in responding to an aircraft incident. Assistance could be provided by the GNWT through its territorial or regional emergency response committees, or a community in the vicinity of a crash could render assistance. The Canadian Forces also maintains ranger units in many northern communities through support from Northern Region Headquarters. The rangers could also be called upon to assist in responding to such an incident and can be activated through normal military procedures. Thank you.

Returns to oral questions. Returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Health, who I will be kind to. Mr. Speaker, I understand that the Department of Health of the NWT, in conjunction with the Manitoba Government Health Services Commission, is presently discussing a global funding arrangement for the Churchill Health Centre as a strategy for reducing the per diem per patient cost. Could the Minister advise me today what the status of this review is and the negotiations?

Minister of Health, Mr. Whitford.

The question is taken as notice. It is a Member's prerogative to decide whether a question is an oral question or a written question. Oral questions. Mr. Todd.

My question is to the Minister of Health again. Mr. Speaker, I have in my hands today a resolution from the Keewatin Health Board that requests that the government commit the necessary funds to the board to carry out a full analysis of the impact of having a hospital in the Keewatin Region. This resolution is supported by letters from the Keewatin Inuit Association, Keewatin Regional Council, hamlet council of Rankin Inlet and the MLAs for the Keewatin Region. My question to the Minister of Health is, would the Minister give serious consideration to providing the necessary funding to the board to carry out this impact analysis? That is an oral question.

Minister of Health, Mr. Whitford.

Supplementary, Mr. Todd.

In light of the Minister's response, would he give me his assurances today that there will be no changes to the patient referral patterns for the Keewatin Region until the impact analysis has been done?

Minister of Health.

Oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Culture and Communications, Mr. Allooloo. Mr. Speaker, there are terminology workshops that have been going on in the communities, and these are workshops done by the translation/interpreter division where they do workshops in order to come up with legal or health terminologies. I would like to ask the Minister if those terminologies have ever been tried out in public or even with the elders. It is good to work on terminologies, but if you do not exercise it, what is the sense in doing it?

Minister of Culture and Communications.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Normally these terminology workshops are specialized in the area of different fields, especially with the Department of Justice. There have been workshops to train legal interpreters in using new terminology. These words are new to our languages. I know in our language we have new words for things like constitutional issues and words that describe the legal matters. These languages are normally used in the courts as well as adopted by communities. I know when I listen to the radio, to the Dene languages, there are quite a few English words used throughout the programs, and I am sure the Dene side of the language development are finding terminology that did not exist prior to the Europeans coming into our country.

These workshops, we find, are very helpful to interpreters and also very helpful to the communities when they start using those new words.

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have not been approached on the new terminology. The elders have never

been told what the new terminology is. In what ways is the new terminology helpful if people do not know them? In what way are they being implemented if it is only the interpreters who know the new terminology?

Minister of Culture and Communications.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do not have that background at that moment, when the new terminology is being developed, whether they go back to the elders. But I am told that in coming up with new words we try hard to consult with the people who know the language issues. I would be very happy to give a Member a report on how we go back to the communities in consulting with them to come up with new words.

Mr. Gargan, second supplementary.

Mr. Speaker, the reason I brought up this question is because the communities are not being consulted in the new terminologies. In order to implement the new terminology the communities have to be consulted. No one has been consulted with regard to the workshops. The new terminology has not been scrutinized, for lack of a better term, but who has been consulted with regard to the new terminology?

Minister of Culture and Communications.

Mr. Speaker, the reason we hold terminology workshops in the communities -- and that has been going on for a little while -- is so that the elders could participate at these terminology workshops, and it would also ensure that the proper terms are used by interpreter/translators in interpreting in court, for example. I will take the Member's suggestion that perhaps there is room to improve the process and room to consult with the elders once we have developed the terminology. I will look into the area and see if we can involve the communities more than we have in the past, although we have been involving the elders in community workshops.

Oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. On Friday the Minister responded to an oral question regarding NWT participation in Expo '92. If my notes are right, the Minister stated that so far the government has spent and committed $979,000. I think he stated that they committed $600,000 for musk-ox and fish and purchased another $420,000 for arts and crafts. If my calculator is right, that adds up to $1,020,000. You also said that you expected to purchase $450,000 worth of additional arts and crafts, for a total of $1.2 million. My calculator says it is about $1.47 million. Does the Minister have the right figures, and if so, did he have trouble adding them up?

It was two questions. If the Minister wants to answer the first question, the Member can pose the other question during oral questions. Minister of Economic Development and Tourism.

Mr. Speaker, I did give all those numbers to the House on Friday, and I will get some more details for the Member and get back to him as to how those numbers are added up.

The question is taken as notice. Mr. Zoe.

Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs.

Mr. Speaker, I think it was the honourable Member himself who suggested that departments should get together to see if, through a co-ordinated approach, a solution could be devised. That work is happening. There is a lot of time yet before the road would have to be built. The end of the month is not that far away. I can assure the honourable Member that he will be the first to know if a solution can be found to this problem.

Oral questions. Supplementary, Mr. Zoe.

Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member knows, with the unfortunate closure of the Colomac mine, a much longer winter access road must now be constructed using public funds. The Member also knows that money is not in as easy supply as it has been in the past. This is a sizable cost that makes the decision difficult.

Departments are scrambling to do their best with the resources that are available, Mr. Speaker, and if the Member is suggesting that the government is delaying an answer because the House is in session, that is an unfair suggestion. I can assure him that my department, and the other departments, are working as hard as they can to make the best use of existing resources to see if we can come up with a solution to this problem, for which we are not at the moment budgeted. If the Member will have a little bit of patience, we will do our best; and we will let him know in a timely fashion what we are going to be able to do, if anything, about this very important issue. Thank you.

Oral questions. Oral questions. Mrs. Marie-

Jewell.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Personnel. Actually I have two questions. In reviewing the unedited Hansard for Friday, December 13, 1991, Mr. Speaker, I was correct, when I posed my question to the Minister of Personnel, and my question to the Minister of Personnel is, why would the Minister of Personnel want to develop a policy for hiring non-Canadians for management positions when we have an affirmative action policy in place? Thank you.

Minister of Personnel, Mr. Kakfwi.

Supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, if we check -- my question was printed on page 380 of the unedited Hansard. My colleague, Mr. Bernhardt, asked a question earlier, printed on page 370 of the unedited Hansard, and the same question was posed to the Minister of Personnel and he indicated yes, he would develop such a policy for hiring non-Canadians for management positions. I would like to ask the Minister of Personnel again, in light of his thinking that he did not make such a commitment -- in fact he did, according to Hansard -- would he clarify his position? Thank you.

Minister of Personnel.

Oral questions. Your second supplementary, Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Speaker, I do not believe it is the desire of Members to see the Minister make corrections to Hansard. I believe it is the desire of Members to determine why the Minister of Personnel would want to develop a policy for hiring non-Canadians for management positions? Would he please advise us? Thank you.

Minister of Personnel.

Does that satisfy the Member for Thebacha? The question has been taken as notice. I think in the meantime Mr. Kakfwi can review Hansard. If there is any misunderstanding, when Mr. Kakfwi gives his return he can perhaps clarify that, so we do not get hung up, as Mr. Kakfwi suggested, with the technical aspect of this. Oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism. Given the Minister's recent comments with respect to a stay-at-home economic development strategy, is the Minister aware that the department is currently funding offshore activities in Japan, and are we able to assess the benefits being derived from such expensive trips?

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism.

I am aware of the goings-on in Japan and I think we are also looking at Germany as well, Mr. Speaker. I have asked the department for an accounting of that. I am unable to tell the Member at this time the benefits to the Northwest Territories, but I will endeavour to seek that out. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

You are taking the question as notice, Mr. Pollard?

Mr. Speaker, the difficulty is that the event in Japan has just occurred and I will not know for some time if there has been any benefit accruing from that, so I would have to get back to the department and merely come to the House with what they think the benefit will be to the government. In that respect, sir, I am taking the question as notice.

The question is taken as notice. Oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs regarding his response on civil emergencies when he referred to the rangers and the Armed Forces on crashes and missing people, but my original question was with regard to emergency measures with regard to a highway spill. My main concern was that last year alone I believe there were about three accidents on the Mackenzie Highway where fuel was spilled, or other things were spilled on the side of the highways.

The Minister has not addressed that particular issue. In the event there is a dangerous spill which could possibly cause fumes or kill people, he has not responded to that. I would like to ask the Minister whether that particular emergency issue has been addressed.

Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the honourable Member's question covers the area of transportation of dangerous goods and accidents or problems that could arise in connection with the transportation of dangerous goods, and I think those matters properly fall under the responsibility of the Minister of Transportation. If the question is asked to me, I think I would have to take it on notice. Thank you.

Mr. Gargan.

I think in the Hansard, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Allooloo referred the question to Mr. Patterson regarding my question on emergency, but I will direct my question to the Minister of Transportation. In the event there is an accident where dangerous chemicals are spilled on the road, where does the Transportation of Dangerous Goods Act address the issue of an emergency response?

I understand from Mr. Patterson's response, because the question is posed to Mr. Allooloo, Mr. Patterson did not take it as notice. Mr. Allooloo.

Mr. Speaker, this is one of the areas where not just one department is responsible, but in terms of the Member's concern over an accident in dealing with dangerous chemicals, I am told it falls under the jurisdiction of Renewable Resources. There is a response team set up in Hay River and equipment in Hay River, as well as in Enterprise. If I am wrong the Minister of Renewable Resources could correct me on that.

Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

I would like to ask the Minister of Renewable Resources if there is an emergency response team in Hay River and Enterprise.

Minister of Renewable Resources.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am told that there is.

Is it definite? Could you tell me the toll-free number a person may use?

Minister responsible for Renewable Resources.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Any time there is any oil spill it is very important to our environment. Yes, I will, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Koe.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I hope my previous question to the Minister of Economic Development and Tourism does not reflect on his ability to add numbers and balance the budget. In Hansard on Friday you also noted that Expo made job offers to 48 people. Is this the total number of staff that will be hired at Expo?

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism.

I think the number that I recorded, Mr. Speaker, was 48 Northerners. That is not the total number. I think the total number will be in excess of 50.

Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

How many of the 50 are going to be on contract and how many are term employees?

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism.

I will take the question as notice, Mr. Speaker.

The question is taken as notice. Oral questions, Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister responsible for Economic Development and Tourism. On December 12th in Hansard Mr. Pollard stated, "I think economic development starts at home.... If he is asking this government if we have plans to go clamouring around the world trying to promote the NWT, I would have to say, 'No.' I think we are interested in starting at home, working at home, looking at southern Canada, looking at this continent...." Given the current trend of offshore activity, Expo, Japan, Germany, will the Minister give us his assurances that these activities and expenditures will not continue without quantifying the net effect to the northern economy and its people and not merely be a free ride for a privileged few?

Minister of Economic Development and Tourism.

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Arvaluk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to Mrs. Marie-Jewell's question, my question is directed to the Minister of Personnel. Mr. Bernhardt's question was not whether or not the government's hiring of specialists like doctors and

scientists from outside the country, rather, why the government makes a practice of hiring personnel from outside the country for very ordinary positions, such as superintendent of Government Services and Department of Public Works for the Kitikmeot. That was the question.

Minister of Personnel.

Oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I have a question regarding the review of POL, petroleum, oil and lubricants program, tendering procedures. Last Thursday my honourable colleague for Aivilik asked the Government Leader for a status update on the Anderson investigation into tendering practices for POL contracts. My question is the for Minister of Government Services. Can the Minister advise the House as to whether Mr. Ben Anderson is still working on his review for tendering procedures used in awarding POL delivery contracts?

Government Leader.

Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that we have not received the report and I am expecting to have a copy of the report probably tomorrow, about 11:00. So as soon as I receive that and look it over, we can release the information that is necessary at that time. Thank you.

Mr. Koe, supplementary.