Thank you, Mr. Chairperson. I have no difficulty in supporting this motion, but the ordinary Members have, in fact, chosen a chairperson to chair and to represent ordinary Members, and it is not clear from this motion that is what is meant here. I will support it as it is, but there may be some people who will not if they are not absolutely clear what is intended.

To the motion. To the motion. Mr. Gargan.

Mr. Chairman, I believe we have already gone through the exercise for this year, 1992-93. We were going to have a workshop on it, too.

Mr. Gargan, I have to correct you that I am asking the Members to speak to the motion. To the motion. All right then, those in favour of the motion? Opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Todd.

Motion That 1993-94 Capital Estimates Be Presented In The Form Of A Five-Year Capital Plan, Carried

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Motion 2. I move that the standing committee on finance recommends that the 1993-94 capital estimates that have to be presented to the Legislative Assembly in the fall of 1992 be presented in the form of a five-year capital plan.

The motion is in order and has been distributed. To the motion. Mrs. Marie-Jewell.

Mr. Chairman, I want to make a couple of comments with respect to this. I think it is critical that a five-year capital plan be developed as it appears that, the way the capital estimates are currently developed, there does not seem to be justification for some of the requests in the capital plan. It does not reflect any type of vision, needs or assessment of what is required in many of the communities. A lot of the capital planning is done on demand, and it appears that whoever requests a demand assertively with this government, receives a response. I do not think there is a system that looks at equity in addressing capital plans. I, therefore, believe that it is critical that a five-year capital plan be developed by the government. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Marie-Jewell. Mr. Gargan.

I agree with what Mrs. Marie-Jewell is saying. I would like to suggest, Mr. Chairman, that there has to be some consistency with regard to the five-year capital plan in the allocation of capital projects. For example, every community has a school. Every community has some kind of recreational facility. I have some problems with some of the allocations. For example, churches. I thought I would mention this now.

The other thing, Mr. Chairman, is that I remember after the election a lot of Members said we are affected by the last Assembly's decisions. The Minister has agreed to honour the commitments that were made prior to that. I know that if we go to the five-year capital plan, this will affect the next Assembly. I am wondering if any thought has been given with regard to that. I would like clarification on this, Mr. Chairman.

To the motion. Mr. Todd.

The overriding concern for the standing committee on finance is to have a clear indication of what our long-term financial obligations are. You cannot build a house without a blueprint. You cannot develop a government without a plan. It appeared to us on a number of occasions when departments came forward -- and we will address them in resolution form as they do come forward -- that half of them did not have any plans. It seemed to be done on an ad hoc basis with little or no thought given to what the long-term financial obligations were to this government. This is one of the reasons for this resolution.

In keeping with Mr. Gargan, the other reason was to ensure that our previous or prior commitments should be fulfilled. We have a resolution to this effect later on in this session. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Todd. To the motion.

Question.

Question has been called. Those in favour of the motion, raise your hand. Those opposed? The motion is carried.

---Carried

Mr. Todd.

Motion To Incorporate Result Measures Into Capital And Main Estimates

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Motion 3: I move that the committee recommends the government incorporates result measures into the capital and main estimates.

Thank you, Mr. Todd. The motion is being distributed. The motion is in order. To the motion, Mr. Todd.

Mr. Chairman, again, it was clear when we were trying to evaluate the capital estimates by some departments that there was little or no thought with respect to the net impact of overspending. By that, I mean the Department of Education would come forward with their requests using enrolment as a means with which to justify expenditures with respect to new schools.

Economic Development came forward with respect to spending significant moneys in parks with no real documentation of what the net impact of this expenditure would be. It is important that, in future, we get a better understanding and a better way to quantify performance within the department.

To the motion. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, with regard to incorporating result measures into the capital and main estimates, I can see this being done in the main estimates, but I am wondering what is meant by incorporating result measures. If you build a capital project such a recreational facility, for example, it means we have an increase in activities, a decrease in alcohol consumption, et cetera. Are these the kinds of things you are suggesting?

Thank you, Mr. Gargan. Mr. Todd, please clarify the interpretation of incorporating result measures as asked by Mr. Gargan.

Yes.

Mr. Gargan.

Thank you. I would like to direct my question to the Minister of Finance.

Mr. Gargan, I am asking Members to speak to the motion. Mr. Gargan.