Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

This House will now come back to order. I would like to apologize to the Minister for stopping your speech. Would you continue, Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Community organizations play an essential role in preserving, portraying and promoting the heritage of the Northwest Territories. To ensure that assistance is provided to community heritage groups in a consistent, fair and equitable manner, and to help maintain the cultural heritage of the Northwest Territories, the Department of Education, Culture and Employment has recently developed four policies.

The heritage services policy defines the heritage programs administered by Education, Culture and Employment and the relationship between the Prince of Wales Northern Heritage Centre and community-based heritage programs.

The Northwest Territories archives policy provides direction for the administration of the NWT archives, particularly the management of non-government records.

The collections disposal policy allows for appropriate and sensitive disposal of government-owned library and heritage collections, including disposal through repatriation. The heritage grants and contributions policy establishes the criteria and standards necessary to assess applications for financial assistance, equitably.

Mr. Speaker, these four policies have recently been approved by Cabinet and I am providing Members of the Assembly with copies for their information. I believe these policies provide a clear public statement of government's commitment to heritage in the Northwest Territories.

In concluding, Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Standing Committee on Finance for raising the matter of the policies. I hope the new policies will be responsive to their concerns about a lack of policy to respond to the matter of heritage in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Item 2, Ministers' statements. Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to notify that the Honourable Don Morin will be absent from the House today and possibly tomorrow to attend meetings with the federal Minister of Housing. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 2, Ministers' statements. Item 3, Members' statements.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I sincerely regret the events of the past few days. It is unfortunate that my explanation of the events have been interpreted to mean I intentionally misled this House. Mr. Speaker, I, at no time, had this intention, but I realize I did make some mistakes in dates in reviewing my calendar. However, since my colleagues feel that my words do convey the impression that I was not telling the truth, I must accept the consequences.

I hope that the tabling of the chronology of events will assist all Members in understanding what actually transpired. My main concern is to see that a reasonable solution is found for the problems in Iqaluit that initiated this whole discussion, and any other issues can now take a back seat. I look forward to working with the ordinary Members in addressing the concerns of our citizens and I am happy that I can now bring forward concerns on behalf of my constituents in the public forum. Today is a new challenge.

Mr. Speaker, could I ask for an extension of time?

Yes.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say thank you to the members of my staff for the dedication and support they have shown me, especially Miss Michele Irving, my executive secretary, Miss Cathy Ayalik, my executive assistant and Anna Koonoo, my executive assistant trainee. I would also like to thank the staff in the departments of Municipal and Community Affairs and Renewable Resources who have worked so hard, not only on my behalf, but on behalf of all the people of the Northwest Territories.

In particular, I would like to thank the Deputy Minister of Renewable Resources, Mr. Joe Handley; and, Mr. Al Menard, Deputy Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs. I very much appreciate your dedication and your good counsel. I would also like to thank the many political staff who have served me so well over the past years, starting with Laurie Nowakowski, Vivian Squires, John Stephenson, Ernie Comerford and Anne Todd. Also the deputy ministers whom I had the pleasure of working in the past, Mr. Hal Gerein, Mr. Andrew Gamble, Mr. Jim Bourque, Mr. Art Sorensen, and Mr. Dave Porter. Qujannamiik.

I will carry with me the memories of many good things we have been able to accomplish by working together for the common

good of our people, the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a Member I am concerned about the policy that was developed last June and announced by the Department of Health. The policy I'm referring to, Mr. Speaker, is with regard to medical examination on user-fees for seniors. The policy institutes a user-pay system for annual medical check-ups. This policy, once again, is setting up the Department of Health to fail in considering long-term ramifications of their policies in favour of short-term gain.

My concern, Mr. Speaker, is for the long-term effects that this policy will have on the health and well-being of our elders. Our elders are one of our most valuable resources and have a substantial role to play in shaping the future of the territories.

This government is quick to assure the people of the Northwest Territories that our elders are valued, respected and their voices heard. Yet, at a life stage when accessible health care is the most important, the Department of Health is refusing to provide medical examinations free of cost unless the individual has waited at least two years since the last check-up. This is not acceptable.

Mr. Speaker, in my observation, elders in the Northwest Territories are already often reluctant to seek medical advice. Serious risks to life and health, such as lung cancer or heart disease, remain undetected because our senior citizens hesitate to report a concern and to use the resources of our health care system until the symptoms become too painful to ignore. Seniors do not want to be a burden.

Although seniors are simply not aware of potential risks, there is no doubt that seniors will much more likely hesitate when they know the department will levy a fee for a medical check-up. While I understand that this fee may be waived if the elders can present sufficient grounds, this should not be their concern. There are elders who are even reluctant to provide sufficient grounds due to their pride.

Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to continue with my statement.

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Please proceed, Member for Thebacha.

Thank you. This approach by the Department of Health sends a strong message to our elders that their health care is not a priority. It is also likely to cost this government more in the long run through the treatment of illnesses that are not presented at the first opportunity.

It is also very disturbing that the Department of Health does not appear to have any appreciation for the health education benefits that elders receive through an accessible health care system. The education and interpersonal support provided to elders in my constituency has been very important to them, and both the emotional and physical health benefits are immeasurable. Many elders are worried now that this will all be lost.

I fear by charging a fee to those in the Northwest Territories whose health is most fragile, the Department of Health is truly risking the well-being of those upon whom we depend for advice and guidance, and to whom we owe a great debt. Surely our elders deserve more from us and from this government. I'm requesting that the Minister of Health reconsider this ill-conceived policy. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We've been in this Assembly now for a few days. Like anything that's new, it takes a bit of getting used to. It's like having a pair of new shoes, it takes a while for you to break them in.

My statement today, Mr. Speaker, is to recommend to the Speaker that he recommends ways in which this new building could be used during times the Assembly is not in session. Clearly, no one wishes to have us compete with the private sector in the use of space, but there are many things that could be done here in both summer and in winter. Many of us have viewed this capital site for the museum, the visitors' centre and the Assembly as a natural focal point for the capital city. But, far more important than that, Mr. Speaker, of far greater significance, is that this is a reflection of what brings Northwest Territorial residents together.

I'd like, Mr. Speaker, at the very earliest opportunity to establish a volunteer advisory committee to develop some policies and guidelines for a fuller use of the building, but in keeping with the dignity of its function as a legislature. This was done in the case of the museum many years ago, long before it was occupied. When it was completed, there were clear policies on access, donations, acquisitions, public use, exhibitions and so on. The Speaker shouldn't be required to make decisions on the use of the facility without some guidelines and policies.

There are, I believe, members of the building society and many people who routinely travel in and out of Yellowknife who would be very happy, I'm sure, so assist the Speaker on this matter. It should not be left simply to the MSB to make these decisions. Maybe this group could advise the board, but it should be people who have been here a long time, who come in and out of the city and, at no expense to the public, would be prepared to advise you on how we could make better use of this wonderful place. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Kakfwi.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Whitford.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On Thursday, November 19, 1993, I gave a Member's statement on the issue of the unconstitutionality of a section of the Elections Act which prohibits inmates from voting. Today I would like to take the opportunity to speak on the issue of what I believe legislation should do to remedy this problem.

Mr. Speaker, now is the time for the House to address the issue of inmates voting. The courts have already addressed this issue by ruling that an absolute prohibition is unconstitutional. Mr. Speaker, the honourable Dennis Patterson stated on July 3, 1991, in response to my motion to refer this issue to the courts that we do not need judges to do politicians' work. With all due respect to my learned friend, the judges have done a portion of our work by ruling equivalent legislation unconstitutional. Now is the time for us to finish this job by considering various legislative options.

Mr. Speaker, I do not support the idea that every inmate should have the right to vote. Voting is a precious right in a democratic society. It is not a right which should be automatic to every citizen. The right to vote should also not be automatically or thoughtlessly taken away. The difficulty I have with our current legislation is that it prohibits all inmates from voting, regardless of the length of their jail sentence or the circumstances of their crime. This type of blanket prohibition without thought or rationale is what I, and the Supreme Court of Canada, found offensive.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that inmates convicted of the most serious offence against society and people in society should lose the right to vote. As my learned friend, Brian Lewis, stated on July 3, 1991, once you have broken the conventional laws of our society, you lose your right. I do believe, however, that the laws of the right to vote should only be for the most serious offences. It simply is not possible to compare long-term prison...

Mr. Gargan, your time has expired.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to get unanimous consent to continue my statement.

Agreed.

---Agreed

The Member is asking for unanimous consent to continue. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Gargan, please proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, honourable Members. It simply is not possible to compare long-term prison inmates to those inmates who are in prison for a very brief period of time. Yet, under the current legislation, both long-term and short-term inmates, regardless of the differences of their offenses, lose their right to vote.

Mr. Speaker, the federal government, in the most recent election, allowed those inmates who are jailed for two years or less to vote in the recent election. Inmates with sentences greater than two years are not allowed to vote. I believe that the federal government's approach on this issue is rational and reasonable and that their approach will withstand the scrutiny of the courts.

Mr. Speaker, two years ago Members stated that the courts should not deal with this issue, that this issue was a matter for this House to decide. I urge us all to have a debate in the near future on this issue that so many Members called for two years ago. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 3, Members' statements. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I certainly believe in giving credit where credit is due and I want to just simply acknowledge the tremendous progress that has been made toward finally devolving some decision-making authority and some flexibility to the regions by the Honourable John Todd in the short time that he's occupied the portfolios of Economic Development and Tourism and Transportation.

---Applause

Mr. Speaker, I've been urging this kind of decentralization of decision-making authority, so that regional staff can deal with regional problems in a flexible way, for many years. I hate to say it, but the trend even while I was in Cabinet, seemed to have been toward bringing things closer to the chest and bringing decision-making to headquarters. Mr. Todd, in a few short weeks with the support of his deputies, has moved the trend the other way and I want to acknowledge that and I want to congratulate him for that in both Economic Development and Tourism, and Transportation. Now, let's hope that the other departments will follow suit so that regional staff can deal with regional problems in a unique and flexible way, without having to run to Yellowknife every time they want to ask permission to go to the bathroom. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Order please. Item 3, Members' statements. Item 5, oral questions. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to oral question asked by Mr. Whitford yesterday, regarding the Fort Providence ferry. The Fort Providence ferry was taken out

of service on Friday, November 19 at 4:45 pm. Operation resumed at 2:00 am the following morning and is continuing, despite the extremely low water. The low water level has been caused by an ice dam upstream of the crossing which is preventing the flow of water into the river. At places, gravel bars are beginning to show through the surface. Load limits on the ferry have been reduced to 45 kilograms and may drop to 25 kilograms later today if the water level does not improve. Low water conditions are common at this time of the year, although this year they appear to be more extreme than usual. Intermittent disruptions can be expected to occur, both from low water conditions and from the presence of floating ice. The department expects that the ferry will operate into January, by which time the ice bridge will be constructed and capable of carrying full loads.

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Mr. Pollard.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a return to a question asked by Mr. Arngna'naaq on November 22, 1993, concerning the date of introduction for supplementary appropriation covering bus funding. Mr. Speaker, the additional contribution funding of $268,000 to school boards for this year, for increased costs associated with student transportation, is included in Supplementary Appropriation, No. 2, 1993-94. This supplementary appropriation is presently being reviewed by the Standing Committee on Finance. This additional funding in 1993-94 will permit the application of the bussing policy across the territories, according to a consistent set of criteria. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a return to question asked by Mrs. Marie-Jewell on November 19, 1993, about the date the alcohol and drug board of management was dissolved. The decision to eliminate the board was made on April 13, 1992. The last board meeting was held on August 12, 1992.

Thank you. Item 4, returns to oral questions. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Whitford.

Thank you, Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, the individual, the individual's knowledge, capability and past experience in certain areas, whether or not it was with this Legislative Assembly, so there's a number of issues that are there. They are varied. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Dent.

Thank you, Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, it depends on what you call equal, if you mean various portfolios to each individual. There are all kinds of factors that take place. Because I work with individuals on a day to day basis, I can determine whether a person can handle a little bit more, a little bit less. So, I suppose the word "equal" would be a subjective word that I would use. I know I work with these people every day and I know that certain people can carry a little bit more. Some people have had long experience. For example, Mr. Todd, who was with MACA years ago, has intimate knowledge of how it was set up...

---Laughter

So you consider these types of things. I think some people have more experience because of an opportunity in the past. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, it is difficult to say. Sometimes if you have experience, the demand is not so much. Experience has a lot to do with issues and with ability to jump in and take over. It depends on how long those portfolios have to be carried. There are some natural interests and background, but mostly from just acknowledging what people are doing on a day to day basis, along with the ability and background to take over some of the responsibilities.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Dent.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, certainly from my background and knowing the different departments, I assess what is going on in the departments. I don't know if I have covered every nook and cranny, but I have a basic background on almost all of the departments on what is involved, what some of the major and current issues are and the workloads. There are many types of things that have to be fit into a decision like that. Certainly, if a person has a long background in a certain area, it helps to understand what those issues are. Thank you.

Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Lewis.

When I was a young man, Mr. Speaker, I played a lot of team sports. Everyone on the team had to pull their weight. If some people didn't do very much, they were always in trouble and the coach always got on their case. My question to you, Madam Premier, since you have agreed there is an unequal division of labour, how do you manage a team when clearly you have more confidence in some Members than in others?

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, I didn't say there was an unequal division of power and I do not have less confidence in one person over the other. That is the Member's statement. Thank you.

Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Looking at Cabinet assignments today and preparing the workloads and budgets for which various Ministers are responsible, would the Government Leader agree that the present workload is not balanced and equal?

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, in my life time I very seldom have found life balanced or equal. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

With due respect to the Premier, I am not asking how balanced or unbalanced her own personal life is.

---Laughter

---Applause

My question was, would the Premier agree that given the workload, the budgets, the different people responsible, would she not agree that the present division of workloads is not balanced and equal? Would she not agree with that? Some Members have lots and others have less. Would she agree that it is not a balanced and equal division of work and budgets?

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Well, I suppose it is the degree of pain you have in your portfolio. Yes, some people have more work than other people. That is true. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Lewis.

In the specific division of responsibilities as a result of having to redistribute work, and since some already busy Ministers are being asked to take on more, would the Premier explain why these Ministers were given more responsibility than what they already have?

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, I have already answered that question. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The federal government recently announced their Cabinets and they have some secretaries of state or junior Ministers. In your answers to several questions before, you talked about the experiences of your Cabinet Ministers, not only in this House, but their past experiences in their private lives. We have cases of some Ministers who have a lot of experience in this House and also in aboriginal organizations and some who have a lot of experience in business, yet the two Ministers I am referring to have different workloads. You just stated to my colleague that some Ministers have more work and responsibilities than another one. Do you have two categories of Ministers? Do you have junior Ministers and the more senior Ministers?

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, I haven't categorized any one as a junior Minister, senior Minister or middle-of-the-road Minister. I made this decision because it is an interim arrangement that I felt would work. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. There has also been some decision-making, by a lot of different Cabinet committees and in the past few months, since we have been reshaping government, the Cabinet's structure has changed. Do you have what we call an "inner Cabinet group" and an "outer Cabinet group"?

Thank you. Madam Premier.

No, Mr. Speaker. I don't think there are enough of us to split up. It seems to me, in our work, everyone has quite a lot to do and there is no time to structure inner or outer Cabinets. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Koe.

Mahsi. So for the record, when Cabinet decisions are made, all eight Cabinet Ministers participate in the decision-making?

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, unless they are not present, away on business. Generally, in the last few years all Cabinet Ministers have been able to attend most of the meetings and we try to schedule those meetings ahead of time so it is possible to arrange the other duties around them.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Government Leader. In October, I wrote to the Government Leader asking for a commitment to provide the Members of this House with a list of ministerial travel and all travel with regard to Ministers. The Government Leader wrote back and stated she was getting this information collated and would present it in the House. I would like to ask the Government Leader when she intends to present that information to this House? Thank you.

Thank you. Madam Premier.

Mr. Speaker, the information is together. I think it is just a matter of bringing it forward. I will try to do that in the next couple of days.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Gargan.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Education. Yesterday, when I asked the question about the interpreter/translator relocating, he did say that he wanted to remind honourable Members that the responsibility of interpreter/translators is to all departments

and all agencies of government in providing this service to the community. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Minister whether this is government policy right now?

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe that under the Official Languages Act there is a requirement on the part of government to provide services in the aboriginal languages to those people to whom we are providing a service. That is the nature of the legislation.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Gargan.

So, Mr. Speaker, the Minister is indicating that the interpreters/translators do not serve all government departments and agencies?

Thank you. Mr. Nerysoo.

No, Mr. Speaker, that is not what I said. The question that was asked of me was do the interpreters/translators provide a service and my indication was that, presently, under the Official Languages Act, we are obligated to provide services to people, in the aboriginal languages or French and English that require that service of us. That is the nature of the legislation itself. By providing the interpreter/translator in, for example, Hay River, we are trying to ensure that those people and in the surrounding region that require that service, are provided access to services in their language. That was the issue that I was raising with the honourable Member yesterday.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Member for Thebacha.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the Minister of Social Services. Mr. Speaker, last week I asked the Minister of Social Services when the alcohol and drug board of management was dissolved. The Minister indicated today that it was dissolved on April 13, 1992. However, when I spoke of this board of management in this House back on September 30, 1992 and subsequently in February, 1993, there was no indication by either this current Minister or the previous Minister that the board was dissolved.

Therefore, I would like to ask this Minister, if this board of management was dissolved in April 1992, why did the board of management meet in August of 1992? Thank you.

Thank you. Ms. Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will take the question as notice because I only took the portfolio in December so I have no knowledge of why they met in August 1992. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Patterson.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This question is for the Minister of Safety and Public Services. What is the current status of liquor inspection in the town of Iqaluit? Thank you.

Mr. Todd.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Member knows that when the municipality was in place, they had, for one reason or another, withdrawn and terminated the contract with the Department of Safety and Public Services to do the liquor inspections in the community. Since that time, the department advertised a request for proposals. It is my understanding that the proposals closed early in November, somewhere around the 10 or the 12. I'm expecting that a new liquor inspector will be hired in Iqaluit hopefully this week. Thank you.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I acknowledge the efforts that have been made by the department. However, Mr. Speaker, what is being proposed is another contractual arrangement. It has been tried several times before and it has not worked out. Given the number of licensed premises and the high degree of public concern in Iqaluit about the adequacy of the current level of liquor inspections, I would like to ask the Minister is he satisfied that another part-time contractor, doing part-time inspections, will adequately serve the public interest in overseeing the operation of the many licensed premises in Iqaluit? Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Well, I suppose part of the solution would be to close down some of the licensed premises, but I wonder what the town of Iqaluit would think about that. I guess nobody's satisfied in the debate on liquor inspections and the way in which we run our operations. You have a diversity of opinion. The fiscal reality is that within the resources I have...We have somewhere around $25,000 to do liquor inspections through a contractual agreement. I'm told that

there was a significant amount of inspection done in certain places in Iqaluit. Some were ignored and some got more attention than others.

I suppose, ideally, if the resources were there, we could put more into place, if that is what the House and department felt was necessary. Right now, I believe that when we put this new contractual agreement into place, hopefully it will appease some of the community. It certainly won't appease or satisfy the whole community, it never does.

Thank you. Supplementary, Mr. Patterson.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister talked about financial resources and I believe he listened attentively to my statement yesterday when I cited the reported sales in one licensed premises for one month alone, of 42,000 cans of beer. For each can, the Government of the Northwest Territories, I presume, obtains revenues through mark-ups on the sale of the beer and also through taxes.

So, Mr. Speaker, I believe that revenues are flowing from the town of Iqaluit and I suspect substantially more than $25,000 a year. I would like to ask the Minister, given the apparent high volume of sales in Iqaluit, the high degree of public concern, and the number of incidents that seem to involve licensed premises, would the Minister be prepared to give consideration -- after this next experiment in contractual arrangements is tried once again -- to presenting a case for a full-time liquor inspector in Iqaluit in the coming fiscal year? Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Todd.

Mr. Speaker, we are fully aware of the difficulties that are occurring in the town of Iqaluit and the volume of alcohol that is consumed there. I would like to see them consume less, but that's everybody's individual right. The opening of premises is based upon plebiscite and community support or lack of support. So, I really have no direct control over that. However, we are currently examining the possibility and looking for resources to allocate a full-time liquor inspector for Iqaluit and, ultimately, Baffin Island given the degree, if you want, of problems that are associated with alcohol in that particular area. Thank you.

Thank you. Item 5, oral questions. Mr. Dent.